From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Mon Oct 4 03:11:59 2004 From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Arthur Kelley) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 22:11:59 -0400 Subject: [frers-list]Website Updates Message-ID: <087701c4a9b7$8af9ea00$674da8c0@art8100> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_Dm1zAYNFXdToIFuDyATDVg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Our apologies - the class fell off the Internet for a month due to a domain registration glitch. We are back up and running and are taking steps to prevent a reoccurrence. Check the website today for: A new speed record for a Frers-33 - 14.9 kts! This was through the water without engine assistance, not one of those down-the freeway-on-the-back-of-a-trailer deals. Check it out in the Updates section on the Homepage. Also look for some new listings of sails available. We have one boat posted for sale, but I hear that there may be two others. Send me your listings and I will post them - free of charge! As always, a reminder - send me your hull number and some pictures, and I will dedicate a web page to your boat. We need your HULL number (embedded on transom), not your sail number. Art Kelley Brilliant --Boundary_(ID_Dm1zAYNFXdToIFuDyATDVg) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Our apologies - the class fell off the Internet for a month due to a domain registration glitch.  We are back up and running and are taking steps to prevent a reoccurrence.
 
Check the website today for:
 
A new speed record for a Frers-33 - 14.9 kts!  This was through the water without engine assistance, not one of those down-the freeway-on-the-back-of-a-trailer deals.  Check it out in the Updates section on the Homepage.
 
Also look for some new listings of sails available.  We have one boat posted for sale, but I hear that there may be two others.  Send me your listings and I will post them - free of charge!
 
As always, a reminder - send me your hull number and some pictures, and I will dedicate a web page to your boat.  We need your HULL number (embedded on transom), not your sail number.
 
Art Kelley
Brilliant
--Boundary_(ID_Dm1zAYNFXdToIFuDyATDVg)-- From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Mon Oct 4 11:47:33 2004 From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Kurt Hudson) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 06:47:33 -0400 Subject: [frers-list]Website Updates In-Reply-To: <087701c4a9b7$8af9ea00$674da8c0@art8100> Message-ID: <001b01c4a9ff$8e917af0$6601a8c0@Taco> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C4A9DE.077FDAF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Keep up the good work Art.we all appreciate your efforts to keep us in touch! =20 Kurt =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Kelley Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 10:12 PM To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: [frers-list]Website Updates =20 Our apologies - the class fell off the Internet for a month due to a = domain registration glitch. We are back up and running and are taking steps to prevent a reoccurrence. =20 Check the website today for: =20 A new speed record for a Frers-33 - 14.9 kts! This was through the = water without engine assistance, not one of those down-the freeway-on-the-back-of-a-trailer deals. Check it out in the Updates = section on the Homepage. =20 Also look for some new listings of sails available. We have one boat = posted for sale, but I hear that there may be two others. Send me your = listings and I will post them - free of charge! =20 As always, a reminder - send me your hull number and some pictures, and = I will dedicate a web page to your boat. We need your HULL number = (embedded on transom), not your sail number. =20 Art Kelley Brilliant=20 ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C4A9DE.077FDAF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Keep up the good work Art…we = all appreciate your efforts to keep us in touch!

 

Kurt

 

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com = [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Kelley
Sent: Sunday, October 03, = 2004 10:12 PM
To: = frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: = [frers-list]Website Updates

 

Our apologies - the class = fell off the Internet for a month due to a domain registration glitch.  We = are back up and running and are taking steps to prevent a = reoccurrence.

 

Check the website today = for:

 

A new speed record for a = Frers-33 - 14.9 kts!  This was through the water without engine = assistance, not one of those down-the freeway-on-the-back-of-a-trailer deals.  = Check it out in the Updates section on the Homepage.

 

Also look for some new = listings of sails available.  We have one boat posted for sale, but I hear that = there may be two others.  Send me your listings and I will post them - = free of charge!

 

As always, a reminder - = send me your hull number and some pictures, and I will dedicate a web page to your boat.  We need your HULL number (embedded on transom), not your = sail number.

 

Art = Kelley

Brilliant =

------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C4A9DE.077FDAF0-- From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Tue Oct 5 18:41:44 2004 From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Albert Francis X NSSC) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:41:44 -0400 Subject: [frers-list]# 2 Genoa Message-ID: <791F162D7B7EC846A4B432B893BFB2920216BD@nssczeusex2.navsea.navy.mil> Wanted to ask a general question about the # 2 sail for the Frers 33. I bought a new #1 3DL 155% genoa last year and it has performed very well for us this summer. It has a rated wind range of 0 to 19 knots but in reality once you get up around 14 or 15 knots you are badly overpowered and to keep the boat on it's feet you have to be luffing most of the main sail. Even with the main sail traveler down low and the mainsheet eased the #1 genoa trimmed in tight creates a lot of heal nearing 25 to 30% in 15 knots. I also have a really strong all Kevlar #3 100% jib with battens that works very well in the 26 knots and up wind range. I will be looking at purchasing a #2 3DL this year at the Annapolis boat show and have already had discussions with North about this. Their suggestion is to go with a 145% cut flat, but that only reduces the sail area by 29 sq feet where as a 140% reduces it by 43 sq feet and a 135% reduces it down by 58 sq feet. Since I'm really looking for something in the 16 to 25 knot range I'm not exactly sure which one of these will work best. Clearly at 16 knots the 145 would be a good sail and not so good at 24 knots. Any and all suggestions will be appreciated, especially first hand experience. Thanks, Frank Albert From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Tue Oct 5 19:30:12 2004 From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Allan Heyward) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:30:12 -0400 Subject: [frers-list]# 2 Genoa In-Reply-To: <791F162D7B7EC846A4B432B893BFB2920216BD@nssczeusex2.navsea.navy.mil> Message-ID: <000501c4ab09$5d407fe0$6f00a8c0@ALLAN> My #2 is a heavy #1 - 145% fairly flat cut made by Quantum (that black and gold plastic they use). It is an excellent sail from 8-18 knots true wind. I've carried it over 22 but we start to get overpowered at 18-19. My light 1 (155% Quantum light plastic) works very well up to 8-10 true, giving me some overlap. Above 18-19 true the battened 3 is the best sail. If seas are heavy, I carry the 145 a little longer to get the drive, if flat, I switch to the 3 a little sooner to flatten the boat out. Allan M. Heyward, Jr. COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C. 804-747-4500 -----Original Message----- From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Albert Francis X NSSC Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 12:42 PM To: 'frers-list@lists.frers33.com' Subject: [frers-list]# 2 Genoa Wanted to ask a general question about the # 2 sail for the Frers 33. I bought a new #1 3DL 155% genoa last year and it has performed very well for us this summer. It has a rated wind range of 0 to 19 knots but in reality once you get up around 14 or 15 knots you are badly overpowered and to keep the boat on it's feet you have to be luffing most of the main sail. Even with the main sail traveler down low and the mainsheet eased the #1 genoa trimmed in tight creates a lot of heal nearing 25 to 30% in 15 knots. I also have a really strong all Kevlar #3 100% jib with battens that works very well in the 26 knots and up wind range. I will be looking at purchasing a #2 3DL this year at the Annapolis boat show and have already had discussions with North about this. Their suggestion is to go with a 145% cut flat, but that only reduces the sail area by 29 sq feet where as a 140% reduces it by 43 sq feet and a 135% reduces it down by 58 sq feet. Since I'm really looking for something in the 16 to 25 knot range I'm not exactly sure which one of these will work best. Clearly at 16 knots the 145 would be a good sail and not so good at 24 knots. Any and all suggestions will be appreciated, especially first hand experience. Thanks, Frank Albert _______________________________________________ frers-list mailing list frers-list@lists.frers33.com http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Tue Oct 5 22:14:44 2004 From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Brown, Junius {PCNA}) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:14:44 -0500 Subject: [frers-list]# 2 Genoa Message-ID: <81F90FD4B519A449B045D51A799F0EC617C67F@pbswmu00041.corp.pep.pvt> I have a cruising #2 at 135%, and wish I had a racing #2 135 for all the same reasons below. The window on the #2 is narrow. I'd go with the 135 so you can keep your main fully powered in 15-20 and boat upright. I've had unbelievable success with the #3 and main in just 18+ because the boat gets upright and you really out points the rest of the fleet with almost no leeway while the rest of the fleet is slipping sideways. The only weakness is that if the wind drops below those critical wind levels it's simply not enough sail. -----Original Message----- From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Albert Francis X NSSC Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 1:42 PM To: 'frers-list@lists.frers33.com' Subject: [frers-list]# 2 Genoa Wanted to ask a general question about the # 2 sail for the Frers 33. I bought a new #1 3DL 155% genoa last year and it has performed very well for us this summer. It has a rated wind range of 0 to 19 knots but in reality once you get up around 14 or 15 knots you are badly overpowered and to keep the boat on it's feet you have to be luffing most of the main sail. Even with the main sail traveler down low and the mainsheet eased the #1 genoa trimmed in tight creates a lot of heal nearing 25 to 30% in 15 knots. I also have a really strong all Kevlar #3 100% jib with battens that works very well in the 26 knots and up wind range. I will be looking at purchasing a #2 3DL this year at the Annapolis boat show and have already had discussions with North about this. Their suggestion is to go with a 145% cut flat, but that only reduces the sail area by 29 sq feet where as a 140% reduces it by 43 sq feet and a 135% reduces it down by 58 sq feet. Since I'm really looking for something in the 16 to 25 knot range I'm not exactly sure which one of these will work best. Clearly at 16 knots the 145 would be a good sail and not so good at 24 knots. Any and all suggestions will be appreciated, especially first hand experience. Thanks, Frank Albert _______________________________________________ frers-list mailing list frers-list@lists.frers33.com http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Wed Oct 6 11:39:40 2004 From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Albert Francis X NSSC) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 06:39:40 -0400 Subject: [frers-list]# 2 Genoa Message-ID: <791F162D7B7EC846A4B432B893BFB2920216BF@nssczeusex2.navsea.navy.mil> Junius, That's exactly my concern. With an overpowered genoa and your main luffing or with a big bubble in the luff of the main you really cannot point very well. However, with the right size genoa you can trim that main in tight and out point everyone. Thanks, Frank -----Original Message----- From: Brown, Junius {PCNA} [mailto:Junius.Brown@pepsi.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 17:15 To: 'frers-list@lists.frers33.com' Subject: RE: [frers-list]# 2 Genoa I have a cruising #2 at 135%, and wish I had a racing #2 135 for all the same reasons below. The window on the #2 is narrow. I'd go with the 135 so you can keep your main fully powered in 15-20 and boat upright. I've had unbelievable success with the #3 and main in just 18+ because the boat gets upright and you really out points the rest of the fleet with almost no leeway while the rest of the fleet is slipping sideways. The only weakness is that if the wind drops below those critical wind levels it's simply not enough sail. -----Original Message----- From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Albert Francis X NSSC Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 1:42 PM To: 'frers-list@lists.frers33.com' Subject: [frers-list]# 2 Genoa Wanted to ask a general question about the # 2 sail for the Frers 33. I bought a new #1 3DL 155% genoa last year and it has performed very well for us this summer. It has a rated wind range of 0 to 19 knots but in reality once you get up around 14 or 15 knots you are badly overpowered and to keep the boat on it's feet you have to be luffing most of the main sail. Even with the main sail traveler down low and the mainsheet eased the #1 genoa trimmed in tight creates a lot of heal nearing 25 to 30% in 15 knots. I also have a really strong all Kevlar #3 100% jib with battens that works very well in the 26 knots and up wind range. I will be looking at purchasing a #2 3DL this year at the Annapolis boat show and have already had discussions with North about this. Their suggestion is to go with a 145% cut flat, but that only reduces the sail area by 29 sq feet where as a 140% reduces it by 43 sq feet and a 135% reduces it down by 58 sq feet. Since I'm really looking for something in the 16 to 25 knot range I'm not exactly sure which one of these will work best. Clearly at 16 knots the 145 would be a good sail and not so good at 24 knots. Any and all suggestions will be appreciated, especially first hand experience. Thanks, Frank Albert _______________________________________________ frers-list mailing list frers-list@lists.frers33.com http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list _______________________________________________ frers-list mailing list frers-list@lists.frers33.com http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Wed Oct 13 17:07:08 2004 From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Albert Francis X NSSC) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:07:08 -0400 Subject: [frers-list]# 2 Genoa Message-ID: <791F162D7B7EC846A4B432B893BFB29202173E@nssczeusex2.navsea.navy.mil> Alright now I'm looking for a used # 2. If anyone has one that's in pretty good condition I think I could make a reasonable downpayment for a new one for you. Would prefer a North 3DL but would be interested in any Mylar/Kevlar or UK tape drive. Just don't have the bucks this year for a new # 2. Especially considering thus far this year I haven't even used my old # 2. Thanks, Frank Albert RELENTLESS From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Mon Oct 18 00:51:55 2004 From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Deborah Moore) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:51:55 -0400 Subject: [frers-list]Mast Prebend Message-ID: <000801c4b4a4$48818320$a41ebf18@k8s0b2> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_ratzoMJnlAsJTSDya32bVg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT How much "Prebend" does anyone have in their rig? Also, if anyone has a dodger, I'd like to see a picture. I'm planning to add one this winter. >gm --Boundary_(ID_ratzoMJnlAsJTSDya32bVg) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
How much "Prebend" does anyone have in their rig?
Also, if anyone has a dodger, I'd like to see a picture.
I'm planning to add one this winter.
>gm
--Boundary_(ID_ratzoMJnlAsJTSDya32bVg)-- From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Tue Oct 19 15:43:11 2004 From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Albert Francis X NSSC) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:43:11 -0400 Subject: [frers-list]Mast Prebend Message-ID: <791F162D7B7EC846A4B432B893BFB2920217A9@nssczeusex2.navsea.navy.mil> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4B5E9.F5284622 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Deborah, When I first bought my boat it had a lot of rake probably 8 inches at the base of the mast if measured from a line from the top. There was also an extender on the forestay. I removed the extender shorting the forestay and straightened the mast. The rake now is about 3 inches and I have much less weather helm and much better upwind performance and that's with a mushy mast step which I'll be fixing this winter. Routinely I can beat a Beneteau 36.7 which has a PHRF of 78 verses my 114 so I'm pretty happy with that. Frank Albert Relentless -----Original Message----- From: Deborah Moore [mailto:debmoore@optonline.net] Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 19:52 To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: [frers-list]Mast Prebend How much "Prebend" does anyone have in their rig? Also, if anyone has a dodger, I'd like to see a picture. I'm planning to add one this winter. >gm ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4B5E9.F5284622 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

D= eborah,

<= ![if = !supportEmptyParas]> 

=

W= hen I first bought my boat it had a lot of rake probably 8 inches at the base = of the mast if measured from a line from the top.  There was also an extender on the forestay.  I removed the extender = shorting the forestay and straightened the mast.  The rake now is about 3 inches and I have much less weather helm = and much better upwind performance and that's with a mushy mast step which = I'll be fixing this winter.  Routinely I can beat a Beneteau  36.7 = which has a PHRF of 78 verses my 114 so I'm pretty happy with = that.

<= ![if !supportEmptyParas]> 

F= rank Albert

R= elentless

<= ![if = !supportEmptyParas]> 

=

-----Original Message-----
From: Deborah Moore [mailto:debmoore@optonline.net]
Sent: Sunday, October = 17, 2004 19:52
To: = frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: = [frers-list]Mast Prebend

 

How much "Prebend" does anyone have in their = rig?=

Also, if anyone has a dodger, I'd like to see a picture.=

I'm planning to add one this winter.=

>gm=

------_=_NextPart_001_01C4B5E9.F5284622-- From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Sat Oct 23 00:46:12 2004 From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Louise K. Brokaw) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:46:12 -0400 Subject: [frers-list]Mast Prebend References: <000801c4b4a4$48818320$a41ebf18@k8s0b2> Message-ID: <000901c4b891$5044ee80$0bd9e118@Brokaw> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C4B86F.C8B4F6C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DM. I don't know where you are?? however, I just had a dodger and = bimini made at Patino canvas in Haverstraw NY. They're on the web = haverstrawmarina.com I think. Anyhow, John Patino is great. Pls tell = him Staats sent you.... Regards ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Deborah Moore=20 To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20 Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 7:51 PM Subject: [frers-list]Mast Prebend How much "Prebend" does anyone have in their rig? Also, if anyone has a dodger, I'd like to see a picture. I'm planning to add one this winter. >gm ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C4B86F.C8B4F6C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
DM.  I don't know where you = are?? however,=20 I just had a dodger and bimini made at Patino canvas in Haverstraw NY. = They're=20 on the web haverstrawmarina.com I think.  Anyhow, John Patino is=20 great.  Pls tell him Staats sent you.... Regards
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Deborah=20 Moore
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com= =20
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 = 7:51=20 PM
Subject: [frers-list]Mast = Prebend

How much "Prebend" does anyone have = in their=20 rig?
Also, if anyone has a dodger, I'd = like to see a=20 picture.
I'm planning to add one this = winter.
>gm
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C4B86F.C8B4F6C0-- From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Tue Oct 26 02:15:26 2004 From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Bob A.) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:15:26 -0700 Subject: [frers-list]Mast Prebend References: <000801c4b4a4$48818320$a41ebf18@k8s0b2> Message-ID: <00db01c4baf9$94d31120$b26c8bd1@rames> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C7_01C4BABE.9A2CDB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Deborah; =20 At minimal backstay pressure about (600psi), Windswept doesn't have = any mast prebend, i.e. the aft edge is straight. =20 Prebend should be based on the amount of luff curve built into the = mainsail. So, probably, it would be best for you to take your sail to = your sailmaker for evaluation, and subsequent determination of a = suitable amount of prebend. =20 = Bob Ames = Chief Beer Fetcher = Windswept 3 ------=_NextPart_000_00C7_01C4BABE.9A2CDB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Deborah;   
    At minimal backstay = pressure=20 about (600psi), Windswept doesn't have any mast prebend, i.e. the aft = edge is=20 straight. 
    Prebend should be = based on the=20 amount of luff curve built into the mainsail. So, probably, it would be = best for=20 you to take your sail to your sailmaker for evaluation, and subsequent=20 determination of a suitable amount of prebend.
 
         =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;=20 Bob Ames
       =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20 Chief Beer Fetcher
       =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20             =    =20     Windswept 3
 

 
------=_NextPart_000_00C7_01C4BABE.9A2CDB00--