[frers-list]keel repair
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Wed, 30 Mar 2005 07:31:34 +0000
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I just had this done last summer. Cost me $15,000, plus three months of the season. The joint between the keel and where it meets the hull is part of the keel root. This extends bow to stern about 5-8" downward where the real keel meets the root. The bolts go up through this root area and terminate in the bilge.
You will be surprised to see a number of things in this area. It appears they used glass for the structural part, but were also very liberal with the use of what appears to be automotive bondo for the final fairing. Its pink and soft. So grind away and replace as much of it as you care to with epoxy to help stiffen up the joint.
Its very possible that damaging the bottom of the keel may have let water seep upward into this joint area. The aft potion of the keel that forms the eliptical trailing edge seems to be hollow. In fact the whole keel is covered in a fiberglass envelope which is where the real fairing seems to have been done. While his makes fairing easier, it does allow water to get into the strangest places traveling between the keel itself and the fairing layer.
Good luck with it. Hopefully your insurance company will help with the bills. Mine did. Thank You State Farm.
Frank Wittosch
Pepperke 2.0
-------------- Original message --------------
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Keel repair (Jeffrey Armstrong)
> 2. RE: Keel repair (Brown, Junius {PCNA})
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> From: "Jeffrey Armstrong"
> To:
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 10:09:49 -0500
> Subject: [frers-list]Keel repair
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C53447.70EFE720
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> It is spring you know and all our attention is beginning to turn to =
> getting the snow off. So, just a little mental exercise before we =
> actually get down to the yard and face the music.
>
> We (I) managed to not miss a piece of ledge last summer while out =
> exploring in Casco Bay. When we pulled out last fall, we had some slight =
> damage to the bottom of the keel on the starboard side, nicked off abit =
> of glass. But we also had a hairline crack at the hull/keel joit on the =
> port side. Everything appears to be fine elsewhere.
> The joint is primarily mechanical, I believe, with the keel held in =
> place with the keel bolts and some type of bedding compound used at the =
> seam/joint.I am wondering if anybody has had to make a repair to this =
> keel/hull joint. I have had various suggestions from several "experts" =
> but am still not quite sure how to handle it.I guess the question is =
> whether to use a flexible bedding compound like 5200 or 4200 or go to an =
> epoxy or fiberglass resin based filler? Grind it out abit, go deep; =
> just go over the top? What was used to fill the space in the original =
> work? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
> God, you got to love it... stepping off into the unknown.
>
> Jeff Armstrong
> jarmstr1@maine.rr.com
> Eastern Exposure=20
> Caroll Marine 1991
>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C53447.70EFE720
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
>
> > charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>
>
>
>
>
It is spring you know and all our =
> attention is=20
> beginning to turn to getting the snow off. > size=3D2>So,=20
> just a little mental exercise before we actually get down to the yard =
> and face=20
> the music.
>
>
We (I) managed to not miss a piece =
> of ledge=20
> last summer while out exploring in Casco Bay. When we pulled out last =
> fall, we=20
> had some slight damage to the bottom of the keel on the starboard side, =
> nicked=20
> off abit of glass. But we also had a hairline crack at the hull/keel =
> joit=20
> on the port side. Everything appears to be fine =
> elsewhere.
>
The joint is primarily mechanical, I =
> believe, with=20
> the keel held in place with the keel bolts and some type of bedding =
> compound=20
> used at the seam/joint.I am wondering if anybody has had to make a =
> repair to=20
> this keel/hull joint. I have had various suggestions from several =
> "experts" but=20
> am still not quite sure how to handle it.> size=3D2>I guess=20
> the question is whether to use a flexible bedding compound like 5200 or =
> 4200 or=20
> go to an epoxy or fiberglass resin based filler? Grind it out abit, go =
> deep;=20
> just go over the top? What was used to fill the space in the =
> original=20
> work? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>
God, you got to love it... stepping off =
> into the=20
> unknown.
>
>
Jeff Armstrong
>
> href=3D"mailto:jarmstr1@maine.rr.com">jarmstr1@maine.rr.com> IV>
>
Eastern Exposure
>
Caroll Marine 1991
>
>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C53447.70EFE720--
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> From: "Brown, Junius {PCNA}"
> To: "'frers-list@lists.frers33.com'"
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]Keel repair
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:57:58 -0600
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
> this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53499.9B2E4120
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Jeff,
>
> Just had the same problem. I had a pro grind out the old glass in the same
> joint on the front (5 inch gap) of my keel and starboard side and reglass
> it. I'm not sure of the details, but given the criticality of this joint
> and area I'd go with a strong solution and some professional help.
>
> Junius
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Armstrong
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 10:10 AM
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: [frers-list]Keel repair
>
>
>
> It is spring you know and all our attention is beginning to turn to getting
> the snow off. So, just a little mental exercise before we actually get down
> to the yard and face the music.
>
> We (I) managed to not miss a piece of ledge last summer while out exploring
> in Casco Bay. When we pulled out last fall, we had some slight damage to the
> bottom of the keel on the starboard side, nicked off abit of glass. But we
> also had a hairline crack at the hull/keel joit on the port side.
> Everything appears to be fine elsewhere.
> The joint is primarily mechanical, I believe, with the keel held in place
> with the keel bolts and some type of bedding compound used at the
> seam/joint.I am wondering if anybody has had to make a repair to this
> keel/hull joint. I have had various suggestions from several "experts" but
> am still not quite sure how to handle it.I guess the question is whether to
> use a flexible bedding compound like 5200 or 4200 or go to an epoxy or
> fiberglass resin based filler? Grind it out abit, go deep; just go over the
> top? What was used to fill the space in the original work? Any ideas would
> be greatly appreciated.
> God, you got to love it... stepping off into the unknown.
>
> Jeff Armstrong
> jarmstr1@maine.rr.com
> Eastern Exposure
> Caroll Marine 1991
>
>
>
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53499.9B2E4120
> Content-Type: text/html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Jeff,
>
>
> size=2>
>
Just
> had the same problem. I had a pro> class=545025319-29032005> grind out the
> old glass in the same joint on the front (5 inch gap) of my keel and starboard
> side and reglass it. I'm not sure of the details, but given the
> criticality of this joint and area I'd go with a strong solution and some
> professional help.
>
> size=2>
>
> size=2>Junius
>
> size=2>
>
> size=2>
>
>
-----Original Message-----
From:
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]
> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Armstrong
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005
> 10:10 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject:
> [frers-list]Keel repair
>
>
It is spring you know and all our attention is
> beginning to turn to getting the snow off. So,
> just a little mental exercise before we actually get down to the yard and face
> the music.
>
>
We (I) managed to not miss a piece of ledge
> last summer while out exploring in Casco Bay. When we pulled out last fall, we
> had some slight damage to the bottom of the keel on the starboard side, nicked
> off abit of glass. But we also had a hairline crack at the hull/keel joit
> on the port side. Everything appears to be fine elsewhere.
>
The joint is primarily mechanical, I believe,
> with the keel held in place with the keel bolts and some type of bedding
> compound used at the seam/joint.I am wondering if anybody has had to make a
> repair to this keel/hull joint. I have had various suggestions from several
> "experts" but am still not quite sure how to handle it.> size=2>I guess the question is whether to use a flexible bedding compound like
> 5200 or 4200 or go to an epoxy or fiberglass resin based filler? Grind it out
> abit, go deep; just go over the top? What was used to fill the space in
> the original work? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>
God, you got to love it... stepping off into the
> unknown.
>
>
Jeff Armstrong
>
> href="mailto:jarmstr1@maine.rr.com">jarmstr1@maine.rr.com
>
Eastern Exposure
>
Caroll Marine 1991
>
>
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53499.9B2E4120--
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> frers-list mailing list
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>
>
> End of frers-list Digest
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<html><body>
<DIV>I just had this done last summer. Cost me $15,000, plus three months of the season. The joint between the keel and where it meets the hull is part of the keel root. This extends bow to stern about 5-8" downward where the real keel meets the root. The bolts go up through this root area and terminate in the bilge.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You will be surprised to see a number of things in this area. It appears they used glass for the structural part, but were also very liberal with the use of what appears to be automotive bondo for the final fairing. Its pink and soft. So grind away and replace as much of it as you care to with epoxy to help stiffen up the joint. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Its very possible that damaging the bottom of the keel may have let water seep upward into this joint area. The aft potion of the keel that forms the eliptical trailing edge seems to be hollow. In fact the whole keel is covered in a fiberglass envelope which is where the real fairing seems to have been done. While his makes fairing easier, it does allow water to get into the strangest places traveling between the keel itself and the fairing layer. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Good luck with it. Hopefully your insurance company will help with the bills. Mine did. Thank You State Farm.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Frank Wittosch</DIV>
<DIV>Pepperke 2.0 </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR><BR>> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to <BR>> frers-list@lists.frers33.com <BR>> <BR>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit <BR>> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list <BR>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to <BR>> frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com <BR>> <BR>> You can reach the person managing the list at <BR>> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com <BR>> <BR>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific <BR>> than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..." <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Today's Topics: <BR>> <BR>> 1. Keel repair (Jeffrey Armstrong) <BR>> 2. RE: Keel repair (Brown, Junius {PCNA}) <BR>> <BR>> --__--__-- <BR>> <BR>> Message: 1 <BR>> From: "Jeffrey Armstrong" <JARMSTRT1@MAINE.RR.COM><BR>> To: <FRERS-LIST@LISTS.FRERS33.COM><BR>> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 10:09:49 -0500 <BR>> Subject: [frers-list]Keel repair <BR>> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com <BR>> <BR>> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. <BR>> <BR>> ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C53447.70EFE720 <BR>> Content-Type: text/plain; <BR>> charset="iso-8859-1" <BR>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <BR>> <BR>> It is spring you know and all our attention is beginning to turn to = <BR>> getting the snow off. So, just a little mental exercise before we = <BR>> actually get down to the yard and face the music. <BR>> <BR>> We (I) managed to not miss a piece of ledge last summer while out = <BR>> exploring in Casco Bay. When we pulled out last fall, we had some slight = <BR>> damage to the bottom of the keel on the starboard side, nicked off abit = <BR>> of glass. But we also had a hairline crack at the hull/keel joit on the = <BR>> port side. Everything appears to be fine elsewhere. <BR>> The joint is primarily mechanical, I believe, with the keel held in = <BR>> place with the keel bolts and some type of bedding compound used at the = <BR>> seam/joint.I am wondering if anybody has had to make a repair to this = <BR>> keel/hull joint. I have had various suggestions from several "experts" = <BR>> but am still not quite sure how to handle it.I guess the question is = <BR>> whether to use a flexible bedding compound like 5200 or 4200 or go to an = <BR>> epoxy or fiberglass resin based filler? Grind it out abit, go deep; = <BR>> just go over the top? What was used to fill the space in the original = <BR>> work? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. <BR>> God, you got to love it... stepping off into the unknown. <BR>> <BR>> Jeff Armstrong <BR>> jarmstr1@maine.rr.com <BR>> Eastern Exposure=20 <BR>> Caroll Marine 1991 <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C53447.70EFE720 <BR>> Content-Type: text/html; <BR>> charset="iso-8859-1" <BR>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content='3D"text/html;' ="<BR">> charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <BR>>
<META content='3D"MSHTML' name=3DGENERATOR 6.00.2800.1276?><BR>>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3>It is spring you know and all our = <BR>> attention is=20 <BR>> beginning to turn to getting the snow off. </FONT><FONT face=3DArial ="<BR">> size=3D2>So,=20 <BR>> just a little mental exercise before we actually get down to the yard = <BR>> and face=20 <BR>> the music.</FONT></DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3></FONT> </DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3>We (I) managed to not miss a piece = <BR>> of ledge=20 <BR>> last summer while out exploring in Casco Bay. When we pulled out last = <BR>> fall, we=20 <BR>> had some slight damage to the bottom of the keel on the starboard side, = <BR>> nicked=20 <BR>> off abit of glass. But we also had a hairline crack at the hull/keel = <BR>> joit=20 <BR>> on the port side. Everything appears to be fine = <BR>> elsewhere.</FONT></DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3>The joint is primarily mechanical, I = <BR>> believe, with=20 <BR>> the keel held in place with the keel bolts and some type of bedding = <BR>> compound=20 <BR>> used at the seam/joint.I am wondering if anybody has had to make a = <BR>> repair to=20 <BR>> this keel/hull joint. I have had various suggestions from several = <BR>> "experts" but=20 <BR>> am still not quite sure how to handle it.</FONT><FONT face=3DArial ="<BR">> size=3D2>I guess=20 <BR>> the question is whether to use a flexible bedding compound like 5200 or = <BR>> 4200 or=20 <BR>> go to an epoxy or fiberglass resin based filler? Grind it out abit, go = <BR>> deep;=20 <BR>> just go over the top? What was used to fill the space in the = <BR>> original=20 <BR>> work? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.</FONT></DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3>God, you got to love it... stepping off = <BR>> into the=20 <BR>> unknown.</FONT></DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3></FONT> </DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3>Jeff Armstrong</FONT></DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3><A=20 <BR>> href=3D"mailto:jarmstr1@maine.rr.com">jarmstr1@maine.rr.com</A></FONT></D= <BR>> IV> <BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3>Eastern Exposure </FONT></DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3>Caroll Marine 1991</FONT></DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3></FONT> </DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3></FONT> </DIV><BR>> <BR>> ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C53447.70EFE720-- <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> --__--__-- <BR>> <BR>> Message: 2 <BR>> From: "Brown, Junius {PCNA}" <JUNIUS.BROWN@PEPSI.COM><BR>> To: "'frers-list@lists.frers33.com'" <FRERS-LIST@LISTS.FRERS33.COM><BR>> Subject: RE: [frers-list]Keel repair <BR>> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:57:58 -0600 <BR>> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com <BR>> <BR>> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand <BR>> this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. <BR>> <BR>> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53499.9B2E4120 <BR>> Content-Type: text/plain <BR>> <BR>> Jeff, <BR>> <BR>> Just had the same problem. I had a pro grind out the old glass in the same <BR>> joint on the front (5 inch gap) of my keel and starboard side and reglass <BR>> it. I'm not sure of the details, but given the criticality of this joint <BR>> and area I'd go with a strong solution and some professional help. <BR>> <BR>> Junius <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message----- <BR>> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com <BR>> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Armstrong <BR>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 10:10 AM <BR>> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com <BR>> Subject: [frers-list]Keel repair <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> It is spring you know and all our attention is beginning to turn to getting <BR>> the snow off. So, just a little mental exercise before we actually get down <BR>> to the yard and face the music. <BR>> <BR>> We (I) managed to not miss a piece of ledge last summer while out exploring <BR>> in Casco Bay. When we pulled out last fall, we had some slight damage to the <BR>> bottom of the keel on the starboard side, nicked off abit of glass. But we <BR>> also had a hairline crack at the hull/keel joit on the port side. <BR>> Everything appears to be fine elsewhere. <BR>> The joint is primarily mechanical, I believe, with the keel held in place <BR>> with the keel bolts and some type of bedding compound used at the <BR>> seam/joint.I am wondering if anybody has had to make a repair to this <BR>> keel/hull joint. I have had various suggestions from several "experts" but <BR>> am still not quite sure how to handle it.I guess the question is whether to <BR>> use a flexible bedding compound like 5200 or 4200 or go to an epoxy or <BR>> fiberglass resin based filler? Grind it out abit, go deep; just go over the <BR>> top? What was used to fill the space in the original work? Any ideas would <BR>> be greatly appreciated. <BR>> God, you got to love it... stepping off into the unknown. <BR>> <BR>> Jeff Armstrong <BR>> jarmstr1@maine.rr.com <mailto:jarmstr1@maine.rr.com><BR>> Eastern Exposure <BR>> Caroll Marine 1991 <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53499.9B2E4120 <BR>> Content-Type: text/html <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR><BR>>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<DIV><SPAN class=545025319-29032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Jeff, <BR>> </FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>>
<DIV><SPAN class=545025319-29032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff <BR>> size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><BR>>
<DIV><SPAN class=545025319-29032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Just <BR>> had the same problem. I had a pro</FONT></SPAN><SPAN <BR>> class=545025319-29032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2> grind out the <BR>> old glass in the same joint on the front (5 inch gap) of my keel and starboard <BR>> side and reglass it. I'm not sure of the details, but given the <BR>> criticality of this joint and area I'd go with a strong solution and some <BR>> professional help.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>>
<DIV><SPAN class=545025319-29032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff <BR>> size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><BR>>
<DIV><SPAN class=545025319-29032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff <BR>> size=2>Junius</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>>
<DIV><SPAN class=545025319-29032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff <BR>> size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><BR>>
<DIV><SPAN class=545025319-29032005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff <BR>> size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><BR>>
<DIV> </DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <BR>> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] <BR>> <B>On Behalf Of </B>Jeffrey Armstrong<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 29, 2005 <BR>> 10:10 AM<BR><B>To:</B> frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> <BR>> [frers-list]Keel repair<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><BR>>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is spring you know and all our attention is <BR>> beginning to turn to getting the snow off. </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>So, <BR>> just a little mental exercise before we actually get down to the yard and face <BR>> the music.</FONT></DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We (I) managed to not miss a piece of ledge <BR>> last summer while out exploring in Casco Bay. When we pulled out last fall, we <BR>> had some slight damage to the bottom of the keel on the starboard side, nicked <BR>> off abit of glass. But we also had a hairline crack at the hull/keel joit <BR>> on the port side. Everything appears to be fine elsewhere.</FONT></DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The joint is primarily mechanical, I believe, <BR>> with the keel held in place with the keel bolts and some type of bedding <BR>> compound used at the seam/joint.I am wondering if anybody has had to make a <BR>> repair to this keel/hull joint. I have had various suggestions from several <BR>> "experts" but am still not quite sure how to handle it.</FONT><FONT face=Arial <BR>> size=2>I guess the question is whether to use a flexible bedding compound like <BR>> 5200 or 4200 or go to an epoxy or fiberglass resin based filler? Grind it out <BR>> abit, go deep; just go over the top? What was used to fill the space in <BR>> the original work? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.</FONT></DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>God, you got to love it... stepping off into the <BR>> unknown.</FONT></DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jeff Armstrong</FONT></DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A <BR>> href="mailto:jarmstr1@maine.rr.com">jarmstr1@maine.rr.com</A></FONT></DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Eastern Exposure </FONT></DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Caroll Marine 1991</FONT></DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV><BR>>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>> <BR>> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53499.9B2E4120-- <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> --__--__-- <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> frers-list mailing list <BR>> frers-list@lists.frers33.com <BR>> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> End of frers-list Digest </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></mailto:jarmstr1@maine.rr.com></body></html>
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