[frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #134 - 2 msgs
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Thu, 29 Sep 2005 00:53:56 +0000
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_12266_1127955236_0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
hello,
we race on the chesapeake bay (where egos dare), and use a roller furling headsail to get a 6sec/mi credit which puts us as scratch boat in PHRF B. they have since revised the rule on roller furling headsails to put a heavy cover on the sail to reduce performance (which probably does some in certain conditions). we use a 155 and have had good success with reefing the main in about 13-16kts of true wind. have rolled the headsail only slightly a couple times, which didn't hurt us too much. rolling to a #3 is terrible and maybe used for cruising. we use a #3 when the wind gets in the 16-18kt true wind speed. we have a #2 which we were using on distance races in blast reaching conditions (a rarety). now with the roller furling we cannot switch to a #2 anyway. so the sail always stays at home in the bag. but by using a 155 in 13-16kts with a reefed main - we have spanked other boats in our class while they flog their mains. the boat doesn't point quite as well, but stays on her feet better with less weather helm and leeway. it seems that we need to get the foot flatter (out haul) in this situation and i was thinking of adding a cleat or something on the boom rather than just a tight bowline to provide this outhaul. i was wondering if anyone had experience in this area.
also, since most of our sailing is in light air i am considering moving the mast aft a few inches as our heavy air performance appears relatively better than in light air (although light air is still ok). about a week ago we found that the mast turned to stbd by about 4 degrees. i had the mast out 2 seasons ago, painted it, replaced the mast step casting, and the yard put it back in. i think the partners slipped. has this happened to anyone? any thoughts on the best location fore/aft for the mast step?
also, i have used a rod tuning gauge and tracked our tuning over the years for the standing rigging. any thoughts on target numbers for these tensions?
finally, i am interested in fairing the keel some more. i have not been able to find any templates for this boat. does anyone have thoughts on factory originals for keel/rudder or getting a standard set made from the guys out west?
respectfully,
greg zercoe - where egos dare
-------------- Original message --------------
> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE: # 2 Genoa (Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01)
> 2. Re: re: frers wanted (Richard Saunders)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]# 2 Genoa
> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:28:35 -0400
> From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"
> To:
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> Wanted to get back with everyone and report results on my new number 2.
>
> I wound up buy a UK tape drive #2 for two reasons. First, they UK guys =
> were a bit less than the North 3DLs which have just skyrocketed in the =
> last two years. Second, since I knew the wind range I was interested in =
> was about 12 to 19 knots the stronger UK tape drive Kevlar seemed like a =
> sail that could hold up better under the conditions I'd be using it in.
>
> I received the sail, which I had cut as a 140% genoa, about two months =
> ago and have only had two occasions to use it since. On the first =
> occasion winds starting the race were at about 14 knots and diminished =
> down to around 8 knots at the finish. Even so the sail drove the boat =
> very well with much less heal than the 155% would have provided and just =
> as much speed. In addition I did not have the big back wind problem =
> associated with heavier wind due to having to lower the traveler to keep =
> the boat on it's feet. Overall we finish well that day and very well, =
> considering some pretty sloppy crew work, the next time we used it.
>
> I think the 140% genoa is a good number 2 on this boat keeping it =
> standing up well and still providing a dramatic driving force for good =
> speed up wind.
>
> In addition in the off season I had the mast step rebuilt and moved the =
> mast forward about 2 inches. I've centered the mast and those things =
> seem to have paid off very nicely in much better upwind performance. =
> The only thing we don't seem to be doing very well right now is getting =
> the boat moving in the ultra light stuff, 3 knots or less.
>
> Frank Albert
> RELENTLESS 41621
>
> p.s. Kurt is writing this I realized I hadn't paid my dues yet. Check =
> is in the mail.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Albert Francis X NSSC =20
> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 6:40
> To: 'frers-list@lists.frers33.com'
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]# 2 Genoa
>
> Junius,
>
> That's exactly my concern. With an overpowered genoa and your main =
> luffing or with a big bubble in the luff of the main you really cannot =
> point very well. However, with the right size genoa you can trim that =
> main in tight and out point everyone.
>
> Thanks,
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brown, Junius {PCNA} [mailto:Junius.Brown@pepsi.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 17:15
> To: 'frers-list@lists.frers33.com'
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]# 2 Genoa
>
> I have a cruising #2 at 135%, and wish I had a racing #2 135 for all the
> same reasons below. The window on the #2 is narrow. I'd go with the =
> 135 so
> you can keep your main fully powered in 15-20 and boat upright. I've =
> had
> unbelievable success with the #3 and main in just 18+ because the boat =
> gets
> upright and you really out points the rest of the fleet with almost no
> leeway while the rest of the fleet is slipping sideways. The only =
> weakness
> is that if the wind drops below those critical wind levels it's simply =
> not
> enough sail.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Albert Francis =
> X
> NSSC
> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 1:42 PM
> To: 'frers-list@lists.frers33.com'
> Subject: [frers-list]# 2 Genoa
>
>
>
>
>
> Wanted to ask a general question about the # 2 sail for the Frers 33. I
> bought a new #1 3DL 155% genoa last year and it has performed very well =
> for
> us this summer. It has a rated wind range of 0 to 19 knots but in =
> reality
> once you get up around 14 or 15 knots you are badly overpowered and to =
> keep
> the boat on it's feet you have to be luffing most of the main sail. =
> Even
> with the main sail traveler down low and the mainsheet eased the #1 =
> genoa
> trimmed in tight creates a lot of heal nearing 25 to 30% in 15 knots. I
> also have a really strong all Kevlar #3 100% jib with battens that works
> very well in the 26 knots and up wind range. =20
>
> I will be looking at purchasing a #2 3DL this year at the Annapolis =
> boat
> show and have already had discussions with North about this. Their
> suggestion is to go with a 145% cut flat, but that only reduces the sail
> area by 29 sq feet where as a 140% reduces it by 43 sq feet and a 135%
> reduces it down by 58 sq feet. Since I'm really looking for something =
> in
> the 16 to 25 knot range I'm not exactly sure which one of these will =
> work
> best. Clearly at 16 knots the 145 would be a good sail and not so good =
> at
> 24 knots. Any and all suggestions will be appreciated, especially first
> hand experience.
>
> Thanks,
> Frank Albert=20
> _______________________________________________
> frers-list mailing list
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
> _______________________________________________
> frers-list mailing list
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:14:40 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Richard Saunders
> Subject: Re: [frers-list]re: frers wanted
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> --0-1512465131-1126624480=:73939
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> Nancy, I subscribe to the Frers-list and noticed the email below that says you
> are thinking about moving up. I've been in the market for a Frers 33 for some
> time. I looked at the photos of Star*Gazer on www.frers33.com and first
> impressions are very postitve.
> I tried calling your cell phone number but got a message that the number was no
> longer in service, and no one answers at the number below from Campbell & Co.
>
> I wonder if you can send me a description of the boat, including electronics,
> sails, etc., and your asking price. You could also call me if you like.
>
> Thanks,
> Dick Saunders
> Westbrook, CT
> 860-399-2503
>
>
>
>
>
> --0-1512465131-1126624480=:73939
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
>
>
> action=http://address.mail.yahoo.com/yab/us?v=YM&.rand=82337&A=m&sim
> p=1 method=post>Nancy, I subscribe to the Frers-list and noticed the email below
> that says you are thinking about moving up. I've been in the market for a
> Frers 33 for some time. I looked at the photos of Star*Gazer on > href="http://www.frers33.com" target=_blank>> color=#003399>www.frers33.com and first impressions are very
> postitve.
>
>
>
I tried calling your cell phone number but got a message that the
> number was no longer in service, and no one answers at the number below
> from Campbell & Co.
>
>
I wonder if you can send me a description of the boat, including
> electronics, sails, etc., and your asking price. You could also call me if
> you like.
>
>
Thanks,
>
Dick Saunders
>
Westbrook, CT
>
860-399-2503
> --0-1512465131-1126624480=:73939--
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> frers-list mailing list
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>
>
> End of frers-list Digest
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_12266_1127955236_0
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
<html><body>
<DIV>hello,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>we race on the chesapeake bay (where egos dare), and use a roller furling headsail to get a 6sec/mi credit which puts us as scratch boat in PHRF B. they have since revised the rule on roller furling headsails to put a heavy cover on the sail to reduce performance (which probably does some in certain conditions). we use a 155 and have had good success with reefing the main in about 13-16kts of true wind. have rolled the headsail only slightly a couple times, which didn't hurt us too much. rolling to a #3 is terrible and maybe used for cruising. we use a #3 when the wind gets in the 16-18kt true wind speed. we have a #2 which we were using on distance races in blast reaching conditions (a rarety). now with the roller furling we cannot switch to a #2 anyway. so the sail always stays at home in the bag. but by using a 155 in 13-16kts with a reefed main - we have spanked other boats in our class while they flog their mains. the boat doesn't point quite as well, but stays on her feet better with less weather helm and leeway. it seems that we need to get the foot flatter (out haul) in this situation and i was thinking of adding a cleat or something on the boom rather than just a tight bowline to provide this outhaul. i was wondering if anyone had experience in this area.</DIV>
<DIV>also, since most of our sailing is in light air i am considering moving the mast aft a few inches as our heavy air performance appears relatively better than in light air (although light air is still ok). about a week ago we found that the mast turned to stbd by about 4 degrees. i had the mast out 2 seasons ago, painted it, replaced the mast step casting, and the yard put it back in. i think the partners slipped. has this happened to anyone? any thoughts on the best location fore/aft for the mast step?</DIV>
<DIV>also, i have used a rod tuning gauge and tracked our tuning over the years for the standing rigging. any thoughts on target numbers for these tensions?</DIV>
<DIV>finally, i am interested in fairing the keel some more. i have not been able to find any templates for this boat. does anyone have thoughts on factory originals for keel/rudder or getting a standard set made from the guys out west?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>respectfully,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>greg zercoe - where egos dare</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR><BR>> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to <BR>> frers-list@lists.frers33.com <BR>> <BR>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit <BR>> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list <BR>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to <BR>> frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com <BR>> <BR>> You can reach the person managing the list at <BR>> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com <BR>> <BR>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific <BR>> than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..." <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Today's Topics: <BR>> <BR>> 1. RE: # 2 Genoa (Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01) <BR>> 2. Re: re: frers wanted (Richard Saunders) <BR>> <BR>> --__--__-- <BR>> <BR>> Message: 1 <BR>> Subject: RE: [frers-list]# 2 Genoa <BR>> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:28:35 -0400 <BR>> From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01" <FRANCIS.ALBERT@NAVY.MIL><BR>> To: <FRERS-LIST@LISTS.FRERS33.COM><BR>> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com <BR>> <BR>> Wanted to get back with everyone and report results on my new number 2. <BR>> <BR>> I wound up buy a UK tape drive #2 for two reasons. First, they UK guys = <BR>> were a bit less than the North 3DLs which have just skyrocketed in the = <BR>> last two years. Second, since I knew the wind range I was interested in = <BR>> was about 12 to 19 knots the stronger UK tape drive Kevlar seemed like a = <BR>> sail that could hold up better under the conditions I'd be using it in. <BR>> <BR>> I received the sail, which I had cut as a 140% genoa, about two months = <BR>> ago and have only had two occasions to use it since. On the first = <BR>> occasion winds starting the race were at about 14 knots and diminished = <BR>> down to around 8 knots at the finish. Even so the sail drove the boat = <BR>> very well with much less heal than the 155% would have provided and just = <BR>> as much speed. In addition I did not have the big back wind problem = <BR>> associated with heavier wind due to having to lower the traveler to keep = <BR>> the boat on it's feet. Overall we finish well that day and very well, = <BR>> considering some pretty sloppy crew work, the next time we used it. <BR>> <BR>> I think the 140% genoa is a good number 2 on this boat keeping it = <BR>> standing up well and still providing a dramatic driving force for good = <BR>> speed up wind. <BR>> <BR>> In addition in the off season I had the mast step rebuilt and moved the = <BR>> mast forward about 2 inches. I've centered the mast and those things = <BR>> seem to have paid off very nicely in much better upwind performance. = <BR>> The only thing we don't seem to be doing very well right now is getting = <BR>> the boat moving in the ultra light stuff, 3 knots or less. <BR>> <BR>> Frank Albert <BR>> RELENTLESS 41621 <BR>> <BR>> p.s. Kurt is writing this I realized I hadn't paid my dues yet. Check = <BR>> is in the mail. <BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message----- <BR>> From: Albert Francis X NSSC =20 <BR>> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 6:40 <BR>> To: 'frers-list@lists.frers33.com' <BR>> Subject: RE: [frers-list]# 2 Genoa <BR>> <BR>> Junius, <BR>> <BR>> That's exactly my concern. With an overpowered genoa and your main = <BR>> luffing or with a big bubble in the luff of the main you really cannot = <BR>> point very well. However, with the right size genoa you can trim that = <BR>> main in tight and out point everyone. <BR>> <BR>> Thanks, <BR>> Frank <BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message----- <BR>> From: Brown, Junius {PCNA} [mailto:Junius.Brown@pepsi.com]=20 <BR>> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 17:15 <BR>> To: 'frers-list@lists.frers33.com' <BR>> Subject: RE: [frers-list]# 2 Genoa <BR>> <BR>> I have a cruising #2 at 135%, and wish I had a racing #2 135 for all the <BR>> same reasons below. The window on the #2 is narrow. I'd go with the = <BR>> 135 so <BR>> you can keep your main fully powered in 15-20 and boat upright. I've = <BR>> had <BR>> unbelievable success with the #3 and main in just 18+ because the boat = <BR>> gets <BR>> upright and you really out points the rest of the fleet with almost no <BR>> leeway while the rest of the fleet is slipping sideways. The only = <BR>> weakness <BR>> is that if the wind drops below those critical wind levels it's simply = <BR>> not <BR>> enough sail. <BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message----- <BR>> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com <BR>> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Albert Francis = <BR>> X <BR>> NSSC <BR>> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 1:42 PM <BR>> To: 'frers-list@lists.frers33.com' <BR>> Subject: [frers-list]# 2 Genoa <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Wanted to ask a general question about the # 2 sail for the Frers 33. I <BR>> bought a new #1 3DL 155% genoa last year and it has performed very well = <BR>> for <BR>> us this summer. It has a rated wind range of 0 to 19 knots but in = <BR>> reality <BR>> once you get up around 14 or 15 knots you are badly overpowered and to = <BR>> keep <BR>> the boat on it's feet you have to be luffing most of the main sail. = <BR>> Even <BR>> with the main sail traveler down low and the mainsheet eased the #1 = <BR>> genoa <BR>> trimmed in tight creates a lot of heal nearing 25 to 30% in 15 knots. I <BR>> also have a really strong all Kevlar #3 100% jib with battens that works <BR>> very well in the 26 knots and up wind range. =20 <BR>> <BR>> I will be looking at purchasing a #2 3DL this year at the Annapolis = <BR>> boat <BR>> show and have already had discussions with North about this. Their <BR>> suggestion is to go with a 145% cut flat, but that only reduces the sail <BR>> area by 29 sq feet where as a 140% reduces it by 43 sq feet and a 135% <BR>> reduces it down by 58 sq feet. Since I'm really looking for something = <BR>> in <BR>> the 16 to 25 knot range I'm not exactly sure which one of these will = <BR>> work <BR>> best. Clearly at 16 knots the 145 would be a good sail and not so good = <BR>> at <BR>> 24 knots. Any and all suggestions will be appreciated, especially first <BR>> hand experience. <BR>> <BR>> Thanks, <BR>> Frank Albert=20 <BR>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> frers-list mailing list <BR>> frers-list@lists.frers33.com <BR>> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list <BR>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> frers-list mailing list <BR>> frers-list@lists.frers33.com <BR>> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> --__--__-- <BR>> <BR>> Message: 2 <BR>> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:14:40 -0700 (PDT) <BR>> From: Richard Saunders <RHSAUND@YAHOO.COM><BR>> Subject: Re: [frers-list]re: frers wanted <BR>> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com <BR>> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com <BR>> <BR>> --0-1512465131-1126624480=:73939 <BR>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 <BR>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <BR>> <BR>> Nancy, I subscribe to the Frers-list and noticed the email below that says you <BR>> are thinking about moving up. I've been in the market for a Frers 33 for some <BR>> time. I looked at the photos of Star*Gazer on www.frers33.com and first <BR>> impressions are very postitve. <BR>> I tried calling your cell phone number but got a message that the number was no <BR>> longer in service, and no one answers at the number below from Campbell & Co. <BR>> <BR>> I wonder if you can send me a description of the boat, including electronics, <BR>> sails, etc., and your asking price. You could also call me if you like. <BR>> <BR>> Thanks, <BR>> Dick Saunders <BR>> Westbrook, CT <BR>> 860-399-2503 <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> --0-1512465131-1126624480=:73939 <BR>> Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 <BR>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <BR>> <BR>>
<DIV><BR>>
<FORM name=frmAddAddrs <BR>> action=http://address.mail.yahoo.com/yab/us?v=YM&.rand=82337&A=m&sim <BR>> p=1 method=post>Nancy, I subscribe to the Frers-list and noticed the email below <BR>> that says you are thinking about moving up. I've been in the market for a <BR>> Frers 33 for some time. I looked at the photos of Star*Gazer on <A <BR>> href="http://www.frers33.com" target=_blank><FONT <BR>> color=#003399>www.frers33.com</FONT></A> and first impressions are very <BR>> postitve.</FORM><BR>>
<DIV id=message><BR>>
<DIV> </DIV><BR>>
<DIV>I tried calling your cell phone number but got a message that the <BR>> number was no longer in service, and no one answers at the number below <BR>> from Campbell & Co.</DIV><BR>>
<DIV> </DIV><BR>>
<DIV>I wonder if you can send me a description of the boat, including <BR>> electronics, sails, etc., and your asking price. You could also call me if <BR>> you like.</DIV><BR>>
<DIV> </DIV><BR>>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV><BR>>
<DIV>Dick Saunders</DIV><BR>>
<DIV>Westbrook, CT</DIV><BR>>
<DIV>860-399-2503</DIV><BR><BR></DIV></DIV><BR>> --0-1512465131-1126624480=:73939-- <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> --__--__-- <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> frers-list mailing list <BR>> frers-list@lists.frers33.com <BR>> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> End of frers-list Digest </BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_12266_1127955236_0--