From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Wed Feb 1 12:02:02 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Stephen, Robert)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 06:02:02 -0600
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Message-ID: <6539444DD3D1FD4DAC24334489AC375501D43DBE@weberm3.weberstephen.com>
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I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
=20
1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats?
2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is
this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull
design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
=20
=20
I live in the Chicago area
Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look
for"
=20
Bob
=20
_________________________________________________________________________=
____
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This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
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I am currently interested in purchasing a frers =
33.
1)Can anyone update me as to where any specific =
coring
issues in hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of =
these
boats?
2)If I wanted to change out the wheel steering =
to a
tiller is this reasonable or does the installation look like a =
morphidite?
3)Any questionable electrical to look =
for?
4)Any concern on the design as it relates to the =
keel
to hull design or attachment. Separate from a bad =
grounding.
I live in the Chicago area
Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer =
on “what
to look for”
Bob
=
________________________________________________________________=
_____________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This Weber-Stephen Products =
Company e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or =
entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is =
privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable =
law. If the reader of this e-mail message is not the intended =
recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of the =
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any =
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is =
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify =
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you.
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From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Thu Feb 2 07:19:10 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (frers-list@lists.frers33.com)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 07:19:10 +0000
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
Message-ID: <020220060719.26528.43E1B26E0001549F000067A02200761394CE9B9B079900@comcast.net>
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Robert,
I have one of the two Frers 33's that are currently sailing in the Chicago area. Regards to your questions,
1. The main problem seems to be with the area under the mast step. There is wood in there which runs from an area just forward of the aft end of the v berth to the transverse stringer just aft of the main bulkhead. If water has gotten into that area (and at this age of boats you can assume there is at least some intrusion on all of the boats) the area becomes spongy and the mast can pump, or the boat will flex along the transverse stringer. Look for a boat that has already had this work done. For more information you can contact Crowleys Yacht Yard as they did the work on my boat (Pepperke 2.0) and another boat that has since shipped out to Salt Lake City (Impetuous)
2. No electrical problems, at least as far as my boat
3. I have a tiller boat and I would guess that all you'd have to do would be to remove the quadrant hardware and attach a rudder cap to the top of the rudder post. I would assume that its the emergency rudder on the wheel boats and might be the same as the tiller boats. Schaeffer made the rudder cap on our boat.
4. The keel hull design is a bit strange and if a signidicant amount of water has gotten into the area of the mast step, it can migrate into the keel root. The boat has a keel root which extends some 8 to 12 inches below the hull. The keel bolts extend down this far and attache the keel to the root. Then the keel is encased in a fiberglass sock and the shape is faired into the sock. In fact the eliptical trailing edge on the keel is hollow in some areas. If the keel root has been degraded due to the water intrusion, them the root has to be rebuilt from the inside as well as the outside. This was done to my boat and Crowleys can fill you in on the details.
If you have any other questions you can contact me directly at fwitt1@comcast.net. I can also put you in touch with the other Chicago owner who sails Mystified. There may be another boat in Waukegan, although I don't know the name, there was another in Hammond named Seacord, and yet another in Michigan City named The Fearless Frog, but these boats are all inactive from what we can see. It would be nice to get another Frers into competition in Chicago.
Frank Wittosch
-------------- Original message --------------
From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Stephen, Robert)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 06:02:02 -0600
> From: "Stephen, Robert"
> To:
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
>
> =20
>
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats?
>
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is
> this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
>
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
>
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull
> design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> I live in the Chicago area
>
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look
> for"
>
> =20
>
> Bob
>
> =20
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
> ____
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
>
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
>
>
> > charset=3Dus-ascii">
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>I am currently interested in purchasing a frers =
> 33.
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>
>
>
> size=3D2
> face=3DArial>1)> size=3D1
> face=3D"Times New Roman">
> > style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific =
> coring
> issues in hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of =
> these
> boats?
>
>
> size=3D2
> face=3DArial>2)> size=3D1
> face=3D"Times New Roman">
> > style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering =
> to a
> tiller is this reasonable or does the installation look like a =
> morphidite?
>
>
> size=3D2
> face=3DArial>3)> size=3D1
> face=3D"Times New Roman">
> > style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any questionable electrical to look =
> for?
>
>
> size=3D2
> face=3DArial>4)> size=3D1
> face=3D"Times New Roman">
> > style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the =
> keel
> to hull design or attachment. Separate from a bad =
> grounding.
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>I live in the Chicago area
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer =
> on “what
> to look for”
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>Bob
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'> =
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
> size=3D2>________________________________________________________________=
> _____________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products =
> Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or =
> entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is =
> privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable =
> law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended =
> recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the =
> message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any =
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is =
> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify =
> us immediately by e-mail at > href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
> color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank =
> you.
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Robert,
I have one of the two Frers 33's that are currently sailing in the Chicago area. Regards to your questions,
1. The main problem seems to be with the area under the mast step. There is wood in there which runs from an area just forward of the aft end of the v berth to the transverse stringer just aft of the main bulkhead. If water has gotten into that area (and at this age of boats you can assume there is at least some intrusion on all of the boats) the area becomes spongy and the mast can pump, or the boat will flex along the transverse stringer. Look for a boat that has already had this work done. For more information you can contact Crowleys Yacht Yard as they did the work on my boat (Pepperke 2.0) and another boat that has since shipped out to Salt Lake City (Impetuous)
2. No electrical problems, at least as far as my boat
3. I have a tiller boat and I would guess that all you'd have to do would be to remove the quadrant hardware and attach a rudder cap to the top of the rudder post. I would assume that its the emergency rudder on the wheel boats and might be the same as the tiller boats. Schaeffer made the rudder cap on our boat.
4. The keel hull design is a bit strange and if a signidicant amount of water has gotten into the area of the mast step, it can migrate into the keel root. The boat has a keel root which extends some 8 to 12 inches below the hull. The keel bolts extend down this far and attache the keel to the root. Then the keel is encased in a fiberglass sock and the shape is faired into the sock. In fact the eliptical trailing edge on the keel is hollow in some areas. If the keel root has been degraded due to the water intrusion, them the root has to be rebuilt from the inside as well as the outside. This was done to my boat and Crowleys can fill you in on the details.
If you have any other questions you can contact me directly at fwitt1@comcast.net. I can also put you in touch with the other Chicago owner who sails Mystified. There may be another boat in Waukegan, although I don't know the name, there was another in Hammond named Seacord, and yet another in Michigan City named The Fearless Frog, but these boats are all inactive from what we can see. It would be nice to get another Frers into competition in Chicago.
Frank Wittosch
-------------- Original message -------------- From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to > frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Stephen, Robert) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 06:02:02 -0600 > From: "Stephen, Robert" > To: > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33. > > =20 > > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats? > > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is > this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite? > > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for? > > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding. > > =20 > > =20 > > I live in the Chicago area > > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look > for" > > =20 > > Bob > > =20 > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= > ____ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > >
> charset=3Dus-ascii"> >
> >
> > > > > >
> >
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Arial'>I am currently interested in purchasing a frers = > 33.
> size=3D2 > face=3DArial>1)> size=3D1 > face=3D"Times New Roman"> > > style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific = > coring > issues in hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of = > these > boats?
> >
> size=3D2 > face=3DArial>2)> size=3D1 > face=3D"Times New Roman"> > > style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering = > to a > tiller is this reasonable or does the installation look like a = > morphidite?
> size=3D2 > face=3DArial>4)> size=3D1 > face=3D"Times New Roman"> > > style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the = > keel > to hull design or attachment. Separate from a bad = > grounding.
> face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = > size=3D2>________________________________________________________________= > _____________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This Weber-Stephen Products = > Company e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or = > entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is = > privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable = > law. If the reader of this e-mail message is not the intended = > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of the = > message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any = > dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is = > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify = > us immediately by e-mail at > href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D2>legal@weberstephen.com > color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank = > you.
> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891-- > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > frers-list mailing list > frers-list@lists.frers33.com > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list > > > End of frers-list Digest
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26528_1138864750_0--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Thu Feb 2 20:53:45 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Stephen, Robert)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 14:53:45 -0600
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
Message-ID: <6539444DD3D1FD4DAC24334489AC375501D44054@weberm3.weberstephen.com>
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Frank;
Is it possible to get on your boat to get a reference for
the size of the cock pit and the room down below?
I am going to try to get out to see a Frers in NY but I will need a few
weeks to get any reasonable flight reduction. If this time table gets
moved out too far I will probably just drive out on a Friday night, get
there sometime Saturday mid day. Get some sleep and then turn around and
drive back.
=20
I live in the northwest suburbs area if this help
My cell number is 847-254-0505
Our home number is 847-381-5619
=20
________________________________
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of
fwitt1@comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:19 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
=20
Robert,
I have one of the two Frers 33's that are currently sailing in the
Chicago area. Regards to your questions,=20
1. The main problem seems to be with the area under the mast step. There
is wood in there which runs from an area just forward of the aft end of
the v berth to the transverse stringer just aft of the main bulkhead. If
water has gotten into that area (and at this age of boats you can assume
there is at least some intrusion on all of the boats) the area becomes
spongy and the mast can pump, or the boat will flex along the transverse
stringer. Look for a boat that has already had this work done. For more
information you can contact Crowleys Yacht Yard as they did the work on
my boat (Pepperke 2.0) and another boat that has since shipped out to
Salt Lake City (Impetuous)=20
2. No electrical problems, at least as far as my boat
3. I have a tiller boat and I would guess that all you'd have to do
would be to remove the quadrant hardware and attach a rudder cap to the
top of the rudder post. I would assume that its the emergency rudder on
the wheel boats and might be the same as the tiller boats. Schaeffer
made the rudder cap on our boat.=20
4. The keel hull design is a bit strange and if a signidicant amount of
water has gotten into the area of the mast step, it can migrate into the
keel root. The boat has a keel root which extends some 8 to 12 inches
below the hull. The keel bolts extend down this far and attache the keel
to the root. Then the keel is encased in a fiberglass sock and the shape
is faired into the sock. In fact the eliptical trailing edge on the keel
is hollow in some areas. If the keel root has been degraded due to the
water intrusion, them the root has to be rebuilt from the inside as well
as the outside. This was done to my boat and Crowleys can fill you in on
the details.=20
If you have any other questions you can contact me directly at
fwitt1@comcast.net. I can also put you in touch with the other Chicago
owner who sails Mystified. There may be another boat in Waukegan,
although I don't know the name, there was another in Hammond named
Seacord, and yet another in Michigan City named The Fearless Frog, but
these boats are all inactive from what we can see. It would be nice to
get another Frers into competition in Chicago.=20
=20
Frank Wittosch
-------------- Original message --------------=20
From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com=20
=09
> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to=20
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit=20
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list=20
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to=20
> frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> You can reach the person managing the list at=20
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
specific=20
> than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."=20
>=20
>=20
> Today's Topics:=20
>=20
> 1. questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Stephen, Robert)=20
>=20
> --__--__--=20
>=20
> Message: 1=20
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 06: 02:02 -0600=20
> From: "Stephen, Robert"=20
> To:=20
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891=20
> Content-Type: text/plain;=20
> charset=3D"us-ascii"=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
>=20
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues
in=20
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of
these boats?=20
>=20
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is
> this reasonable or does the installation look like a
morphidite?=20
>=20
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?=20
>=20
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull
> design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> I live in the Chicago area=20
>=20
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what
to look=20
> for"=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> Bob=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>
________________________________________________________________________
_=3D=20
> ____=20
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:=20
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only
for=20
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed
and may=20
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and
exempt from=20
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail
message=20
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent
responsible=20
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are
hereby=20
> notif ied that any dissemination, distribution or copying of
this=20
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail
in error,=20
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at
legal@weberstephen.com=20
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.=20
>=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891=20
> Content-Type: text/html;=20
> charset=3D"us-ascii"=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> charset=3D3Dus-ascii">=20
>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>I am currently interested in purchasing a
frers =3D=20
> 33.
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>1)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can anyone update me as to where any
specific =3D=20
> coring=20
> issues in hull or the deck area that might be consistent with
most of =3D=20
> these=20
> boats?
=09
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>2)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If I wanted to change out the wheel
steering =3D=20
> to a=20
> tiller is this reasonable or does the installation look like a
=3D=20
> morphidite?
=09
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>3)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any questionable electrical to look
=3D=20
> for?
=09
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>4)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any concern on the design as it
relates to the =3D=20
> keel=20
> to hull design or attachment. Separate from a bad =3D=20
> grounding.
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>I live in the Chicago area
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>Thanks for any advice or information anyone
can offer =3D=20
> on "what=20
> to look for"
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>Bob
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'> =3D=20
> =20
=09
>=20
>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
=09
> face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D=20
>
size=3D3D2>______________________________________________________________=
_
_=3D=20
> _____________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products =3D=20
> Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or =3D=20
> entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is =3D=20
> privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable =3D=20
> law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended =3D=20
> recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the =3D=20
> message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any =3D=20
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is =3D=20
> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify =3D=20
> us immediately by e-mail at >
href=3D3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> =
size=3D3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
> color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>and also indicate the sender's name.
Thank =3D=20
> you.
=09
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891--=20
>=20
>=20
> --__--__--=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________=20
> frers-list mailing list=20
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list=20
>=20
>=20
> End of frers-list Digest=20
_________________________________________________________________________=
____
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com
and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C6283A.C26F4487
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Frank;
=
Is it possible to get on your
boat to get a reference for the size of the cock pit and the room down =
below?
I am going to try to get out to see =
a
Frers in NY but I will need a few weeks to get any reasonable flight =
reduction.
If this time table gets moved out too far I will probably just drive out =
on a Friday
night, get there sometime Saturday mid day. Get some sleep and then turn =
around
and drive back.
I live in the northwest suburbs =
area if
this help
My cell number is =
847-254-0505
Our home number is =
847-381-5619
From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of =
fwitt1@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, February =
02, 2006
1:19 AM To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: [frers-list]Re:
frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
Robert,
I have one of the two Frers 33's that are currently sailing in =
the Chicago area. Regards to your questions,
1. The main problem seems to be with the area under the mast =
step.
There is wood in there which runs from an area just forward of the aft =
end of
the v berth to the transverse stringer just aft of the main bulkhead. If =
water
has gotten into that area (and at this age of boats you can assume there =
is at
least some intrusion on all of the boats) the area becomes spongy and =
the mast
can pump, or the boat will flex along the transverse stringer. Look for =
a boat
that has already had this work done. For more information you can =
contact
Crowleys Yacht Yard as they did the work on my boat (Pepperke 2.0) and =
another
boat that has since shipped out to Salt Lake City =
(Impetuous)
2. No electrical problems, at least as far as my =
boat
3. I have a tiller boat and I would guess that all you'd have to =
do
would be to remove the quadrant hardware and attach a rudder cap to the =
top of
the rudder post. I would assume that its the emergency rudder on the =
wheel
boats and might be the same as the tiller boats. Schaeffer made the =
rudder cap
on our boat.
4. The keel hull design is a bit strange and if a signidicant =
amount of
water has gotten into the area of the mast step, it can migrate into the =
keel
root. The boat has a keel root which extends some 8 to 12 inches below =
the
hull. The keel bolts extend down this far and attache the keel to the =
root.
Then the keel is encased in a fiberglass sock and the shape is faired =
into the
sock. In fact the eliptical trailing edge on the keel is hollow in some
areas. If the keel root has been degraded due to the water =
intrusion,
them the root has to be rebuilt from the inside as well as the outside. =
This
was done to my boat and Crowleys can fill you in on the details. =
If you have any other questions you can contact me directly at =
fwitt1@comcast.net. I can also =
put you in
touch with the other Chicago owner who sails Mystified. There may be =
another
boat in Waukegan, although I don't know the name, there was another in =
Hammond named Seacord, and yet another in Michigan City named The =
Fearless Frog, but these
boats are all inactive from what we can see. It would be nice to =
get
another Frers into competition in Chicago.
Frank Wittosch
-------------- Original message --------------
From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific =
> than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Stephen, Robert)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 06: 02:02 -0600
> From: "Stephen, Robert" > To: > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a =
purchase
of a frers 33
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset=3D"us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
>
> =3D20
>
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
boats?
>
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is
> this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite? =
>
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
>
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull
> design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
>
> =3D20
>
> =3D20
>
> I live in the Chicago area
>
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what =
to
look
> for"
>
> =3D20
>
> Bob
>
> =3D20
>
>
>
> =
_________________________________________________________________________=
=3D
> ____
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for =
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and =
may
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt =
from
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail =
message
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible =
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are =
hereby
> notif ied that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this =
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in =
error,
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com =
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
>
>
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset=3D"us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
>
>
>=20
> charset=3D3Dus-ascii">
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>I am currently interested in purchasing a =
frers =3D
> 33.
> size=3D3D2
> face=3D3DArial>1)> size=3D3D1
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman">
> >
style=3D3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can anyone update me as to where any =
specific
=3D
> coring
> issues in hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most =
of =3D
> these
> boats?
>
>
> size=3D3D2
> face=3D3DArial>2)> size=3D3D1
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman">
> >
style=3D3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If I wanted to change out the wheel =
steering
=3D
> to a
> tiller is this reasonable or does the installation look like a =3D =
> morphidite?
> size=3D3D2
> face=3D3DArial>4)> size=3D3D1
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman">
> >
style=3D3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any concern on the design as it =
relates to
the =3D
> keel
> to hull design or attachment. Separate from a bad =3D
> grounding.
> face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D
>
size=3D3D2>___________________________________________________________=
_____=3D
> _____________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products =3D
> Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or =3D
> entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is =3D
> privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable =3D
> law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended =3D
> recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the =3D
> message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any =3D
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is =3D
> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify =3D
> us immediately by e-mail at >
href=3D3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">>
size=3D3D2>legal@weberstephen.com >
color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. =
Thank =3D
> you.
>
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891--
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> frers-list mailing list
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>
>
> End of frers-list Digest
________________________________________________________________=
_____________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This Weber-Stephen Products =
Company e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or =
entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is =
privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable =
law. If the reader of this e-mail message is not the intended =
recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of the =
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any =
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is =
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify =
us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com and also indicate the sender's name. Thank =
you.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C6283A.C26F4487--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Thu Feb 2 20:55:40 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Stephen, Robert)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 14:55:40 -0600
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
Message-ID: <6539444DD3D1FD4DAC24334489AC375501D44058@weberm3.weberstephen.com>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C6283B.06C5F9A3
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=20
=20
________________________________
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 2:54 PM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
=20
Frank;
Is it possible to get on your boat to get a reference for
the size of the cock pit and the room down below?
I am going to try to get out to see a Frers in NY but I will need a few
weeks to get any reasonable flight reduction. If this time table gets
moved out too far I will probably just drive out on a Friday night, get
there sometime Saturday mid day. Get some sleep and then turn around and
drive back.
=20
I live in the northwest suburbs area if this help
My cell number is 847-254-0505
Our home number is 847-381-5619
=20
________________________________
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of
fwitt1@comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:19 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
=20
Robert,
I have one of the two Frers 33's that are currently sailing in the
Chicago area. Regards to your questions,=20
1. The main problem seems to be with the area under the mast step. There
is wood in there which runs from an area just forward of the aft end of
the v berth to the transverse stringer just aft of the main bulkhead. If
water has gotten into that area (and at this age of boats you can assume
there is at least some intrusion on all of the boats) the area becomes
spongy and the mast can pump, or the boat will flex along the transverse
stringer. Look for a boat that has already had this work done. For more
information you can contact Crowleys Yacht Yard as they did the work on
my boat (Pepperke 2.0) and another boat that has since shipped out to
Salt Lake City (Impetuous)=20
2. No electrical problems, at least as far as my boat
3. I have a tiller boat and I would guess that all you'd have to do
would be to remove the quadrant hardware and attach a rudder cap to the
top of the rudder post. I would assume that its the emergency rudder on
the wheel boats and might be the same as the tiller boats. Schaeffer
made the rudder cap on our boat.=20
4. The keel hull design is a bit strange and if a signidicant amount of
water has gotten into the area of the mast step, it can migrate into the
keel root. The boat has a keel root which extends some 8 to 12 inches
below the hull. The keel bolts extend down this far and attache the keel
to the root. Then the keel is encased in a fiberglass sock and the shape
is faired into the sock. In fact the eliptical trailing edge on the keel
is hollow in some areas. If the keel root has been degraded due to the
water intrusion, them the root has to be rebuilt from the inside as well
as the outside. This was done to my boat and Crowleys can fill you in on
the details.=20
If you have any other questions you can contact me directly at
fwitt1@comcast.net. I can also put you in touch with the other Chicago
owner who sails Mystified. There may be another boat in Waukegan,
although I don't know the name, there was another in Hammond named
Seacord, and yet another in Michigan City named The Fearless Frog, but
these boats are all inactive from what we can see. It would be nice to
get another Frers into competition in Chicago.=20
=20
Frank Wittosch
-------------- Original message --------------=20
From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com=20
=09
> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to=20
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit=20
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list=20
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to=20
> frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> You can reach the person managing the list at=20
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
specific=20
> than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."=20
>=20
>=20
> Today's Topics:=20
>=20
> 1. questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Stephen, Robert)=20
>=20
> --__--__--=20
>=20
> Message: 1=20
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 06: 02:02 -0600=20
> From: "Stephen, Robert"=20
> To:=20
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891=20
> Content-Type: text/plain;=20
> charset=3D"us-ascii"=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
>=20
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues
in=20
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of
these boats?=20
>=20
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is
> this reasonable or does the installation look like a
morphidite?=20
>=20
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?=20
>=20
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull
> design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> I live in the Chicago area=20
>=20
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what
to look=20
> for"=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> Bob=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>
________________________________________________________________________
_=3D=20
> ____=20
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:=20
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only
for=20
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed
and may=20
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and
exempt from=20
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail
message=20
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent
responsible=20
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are
hereby=20
> notif ied that any dissemination, distribution or copying of
this=20
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail
in error,=20
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at
legal@weberstephen.com=20
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.=20
>=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891=20
> Content-Type: text/html;=20
> charset=3D"us-ascii"=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> charset=3D3Dus-ascii">=20
>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>I am currently interested in purchasing a
frers =3D=20
> 33.
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>1)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can anyone update me as to where any
specific =3D=20
> coring=20
> issues in hull or the deck area that might be consistent with
most of =3D=20
> these=20
> boats?
=09
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>2)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If I wanted to change out the wheel
steering =3D=20
> to a=20
> tiller is this reasonable or does the installation look like a
=3D=20
> morphidite?
=09
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>3)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any questionable electrical to look
=3D=20
> for?
=09
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>4)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any concern on the design as it
relates to the =3D=20
> keel=20
> to hull design or attachment. Separate from a bad =3D=20
> grounding.
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>I live in the Chicago area
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>Thanks for any advice or information anyone
can offer =3D=20
> on "what=20
> to look for"
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>Bob
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'> =3D=20
> =20
=09
>=20
>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
=09
> face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D=20
>
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_
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> _____________
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> privileged, confidential and exempt from
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> message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
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> color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>and also indicate the sender's name.
Thank =3D=20
> you.
=09
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891--=20
>=20
>=20
> --__--__--=20
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> _______________________________________________=20
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________________________________________________________________________
_____
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C6283B.06C5F9A3
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From: =
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On
Behalf Of Stephen, Robert Sent: Thursday, February =
02, 2006
2:54 PM To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =
[frers-list]Re:
frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
Frank;
=
Is it possible to get on your boat to get a reference for the size of =
the cock
pit and the room down below?
I am going to try to get out to see =
a
Frers in NY but I will need a few weeks to get any reasonable flight =
reduction.
If this time table gets moved out too far I will probably just drive out =
on a
Friday night, get there sometime Saturday mid day. Get some sleep and =
then turn
around and drive back.
I live in the northwest suburbs =
area if
this help
My cell number is =
847-254-0505
Our home number is =
847-381-5619
From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of =
fwitt1@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, February =
02, 2006
1:19 AM To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: [frers-list]Re:
frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
Robert,
I have one of the two Frers 33's that are currently sailing in =
the
Chicago area. Regards to your questions,
1. The main problem seems to be with the area under the mast =
step.
There is wood in there which runs from an area just forward of the aft =
end of
the v berth to the transverse stringer just aft of the main bulkhead. If =
water
has gotten into that area (and at this age of boats you can assume there =
is at
least some intrusion on all of the boats) the area becomes spongy and =
the mast
can pump, or the boat will flex along the transverse stringer. Look for =
a boat
that has already had this work done. For more information you can =
contact
Crowleys Yacht Yard as they did the work on my boat (Pepperke 2.0) and =
another
boat that has since shipped out to Salt Lake City =
(Impetuous)
2. No electrical problems, at least as far as my =
boat
3. I have a tiller boat and I would guess that all you'd have to =
do
would be to remove the quadrant hardware and attach a rudder cap to the =
top of
the rudder post. I would assume that its the emergency rudder on the =
wheel
boats and might be the same as the tiller boats. Schaeffer made the =
rudder cap
on our boat.
4. The keel hull design is a bit strange and if a signidicant =
amount of
water has gotten into the area of the mast step, it can migrate into the =
keel
root. The boat has a keel root which extends some 8 to 12 inches below =
the
hull. The keel bolts extend down this far and attache the keel to the =
root.
Then the keel is encased in a fiberglass sock and the shape is faired =
into the
sock. In fact the eliptical trailing edge on the keel is hollow in some
areas. If the keel root has been degraded due to the water =
intrusion,
them the root has to be rebuilt from the inside as well as the outside. =
This
was done to my boat and Crowleys can fill you in on the details. =
If you have any other questions you can contact me directly at =
fwitt1@comcast.net. I can also =
put you in
touch with the other Chicago owner who sails Mystified. There may be =
another
boat in Waukegan, although I don't know the name, there was another in =
Hammond
named Seacord, and yet another in Michigan City named The Fearless Frog, =
but
these boats are all inactive from what we can see. It would be =
nice to
get another Frers into competition in Chicago.
Frank Wittosch
-------------- Original message --------------
From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific =
> than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Stephen, Robert)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 06: 02:02 -0600
> From: "Stephen, Robert" > To: > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a =
purchase
of a frers 33
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset=3D"us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
>
> =3D20
>
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
boats?
>
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is
> this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite? =
>
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
>
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull
> design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
>
> =3D20
>
> =3D20
>
> I live in the Chicago area
>
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what =
to
look
> for"
>
> =3D20
>
> Bob
>
> =3D20
>
>
>
> =
_________________________________________________________________________=
=3D
> ____
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for =
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and =
may
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt =
from
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail =
message
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible =
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are =
hereby
> notif ied that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this =
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in =
error,
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com =
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
>
>
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset=3D"us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
>
>
>=20
> charset=3D3Dus-ascii">
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>I am currently interested in purchasing a =
frers =3D
> 33.
> size=3D3D2
> face=3D3DArial>1)> size=3D3D1
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman">
> >
style=3D3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can anyone update me as to where any =
specific
=3D
> coring
> issues in hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most =
of =3D
> these
> boats?
>
>
> size=3D3D2
> face=3D3DArial>2)> size=3D3D1
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman">
> >
style=3D3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If I wanted to change out the wheel =
steering
=3D
> to a
> tiller is this reasonable or does the installation look like a =3D =
> morphidite?
> size=3D3D2
> face=3D3DArial>4)> size=3D3D1
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman">
> >
style=3D3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any concern on the design as it =
relates to
the =3D
> keel
> to hull design or attachment. Separate from a bad =3D
> grounding.
> face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D
>
size=3D3D2>___________________________________________________________=
_____=3D
> _____________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products =3D
> Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or =3D
> entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is =3D
> privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable =3D
> law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended =3D
> recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the =3D
> message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any =3D
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is =3D
> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify =3D
> us immediately by e-mail at >
href=3D3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">>
size=3D3D2>legal@weberstephen.com >
color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. =
Thank =3D
> you.
>
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891--
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> frers-list mailing list
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>
>
> End of frers-list Digest
________________________________________________________________=
_____________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This Weber-Stephen Products =
Company e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or =
entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is =
privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable =
law. If the reader of this e-mail message is not the intended =
recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of the =
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any =
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is =
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify =
us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com and also indicate the sender's name. Thank =
you.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C6283B.06C5F9A3--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Thu Feb 2 11:57:34 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 06:57:34 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
Message-ID: <739F9600DCB1FF47AFEA52036723D4610207E180@naeanrfkez09.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C627EF.DA8751EA
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Frank,
=20
I purchased SEACORD in 2002 and had it trucked to the Chesapeake Bay =
area. I had my mast step rebuilt last year but my damage was minimal =
and what I had noticed was the cabin floor compressing and developing =
cracks in the sidewall near the floor as that transverse stringer =
started to sag about a 16th of an inch. They removed some damp wood and =
replaced that with vacuum bagged fiberglass stuff. The reglassed the =
entire area and I have noticed no new problems in all of last year.
=20
Frank Albert =20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of =
fwitt1@comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 2:19
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
=20
Robert,
I have one of the two Frers 33's that are currently sailing in the =
Chicago area. Regards to your questions,=20
1. The main problem seems to be with the area under the mast step. There =
is wood in there which runs from an area just forward of the aft end of =
the v berth to the transverse stringer just aft of the main bulkhead. If =
water has gotten into that area (and at this age of boats you can assume =
there is at least some intrusion on all of the boats) the area becomes =
spongy and the mast can pump, or the boat will flex along the transverse =
stringer. Look for a boat that has already had this work done. For more =
information you can contact Crowleys Yacht Yard as they did the work on =
my boat (Pepperke 2.0) and another boat that has since shipped out to =
Salt Lake City (Impetuous)=20
2. No electrical problems, at least as far as my boat
3. I have a tiller boat and I would guess that all you'd have to do =
would be to remove the quadrant hardware and attach a rudder cap to the =
top of the rudder post. I would assume that its the emergency rudder on =
the wheel boats and might be the same as the tiller boats. Schaeffer =
made the rudder cap on our boat.=20
4. The keel hull design is a bit strange and if a signidicant amount of =
water has gotten into the area of the mast step, it can migrate into the =
keel root. The boat has a keel root which extends some 8 to 12 inches =
below the hull. The keel bolts extend down this far and attache the keel =
to the root. Then the keel is encased in a fiberglass sock and the shape =
is faired into the sock. In fact the eliptical trailing edge on the keel =
is hollow in some areas. If the keel root has been degraded due to the =
water intrusion, them the root has to be rebuilt from the inside as well =
as the outside. This was done to my boat and Crowleys can fill you in on =
the details.=20
If you have any other questions you can contact me directly at =
fwitt1@comcast.net. I can also put you in touch with the other Chicago =
owner who sails Mystified. There may be another boat in Waukegan, =
although I don't know the name, there was another in Hammond named =
Seacord, and yet another in Michigan City named The Fearless Frog, but =
these boats are all inactive from what we can see. It would be nice to =
get another Frers into competition in Chicago.=20
=20
Frank Wittosch
-------------- Original message --------------=20
From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com=20
> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to=20
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit=20
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list=20
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to=20
> frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> You can reach the person managing the list at=20
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific=20
> than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."=20
>=20
>=20
> Today's Topics:=20
>=20
> 1. questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Stephen, Robert)=20
>=20
> --__--__--=20
>=20
> Message: 1=20
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 06: 02:02 -0600=20
> From: "Stephen, Robert"=20
> To:=20
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891=20
> Content-Type: text/plain;=20
> charset=3D"us-ascii"=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
>=20
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in=20
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
boats?=20
>=20
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is=20
> this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?=20
>=20
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?=20
>=20
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull=20
> design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> I live in the Chicago area=20
>=20
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =
> for"=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> Bob=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =
_________________________________________________________________________=
=3D=20
> ____=20
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:=20
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for=20
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may=20
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from=20
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message=20
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible=20
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby=20
> notif ied that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this=20
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in =
error,=20
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com=20
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.=20
>=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891=20
> Content-Type: text/html;=20
> charset=3D"us-ascii"=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> charset=3D3Dus-ascii">=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>I am currently interested in purchasing a frers =3D =
> 33.
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>1)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can anyone update me as to where any =
specific =3D=20
> coring=20
> issues in hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of =
=3D=20
> these=20
> boats?
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>2)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering =
=3D=20
> to a=20
> tiller is this reasonable or does the installation look like a =3D=20
> morphidite?
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>3)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any questionable electrical to look =3D=20
> for?
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>4)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any concern on the design as it relates to =
the =3D=20
> keel=20
> to hull design or attachment. Separate from a bad =3D=20
> grounding.
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>I live in the Chicago area
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>Thanks for any advice or information anyone can =
offer =3D=20
> on "what=20
> to look for"
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>Bob
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'> =3D=20
> =20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D=20
> =
size=3D3D2>______________________________________________________________=
__=3D=20
> _____________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products =3D=20
> Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or =3D=20
> entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is =3D=20
> privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable =3D=20
> law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended =3D=20
> recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the =3D=20
> message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any =3D=20
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is =3D=20
> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify =3D=20
> us immediately by e-mail at > =
href=3D3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> =
size=3D3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
> color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. =
Thank =3D=20
> you.
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891--=20
>=20
>=20
> --__--__--=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________=20
> frers-list mailing list=20
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list=20
>=20
>=20
> End of frers-list Digest=20
------_=_NextPart_001_01C627EF.DA8751EA
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
He=
y Frank,
I
purchased SEACORD in 2002 and had it trucked to the Chesapeake Bay =
area.I had my mast step =
rebuilt last
year but my damage was minimal and what I had noticed was the cabin =
floor
compressing and developing cracks in the sidewall near the floor as that =
transverse
stringer started to sag about a 16th of an inch.They removed some damp wood and replaced that with =
vacuum bagged
fiberglass stuff.The =
reglassed
the entire area and I have noticed no new problems in all of last =
year.
Fr=
ank
Albert
-----Original Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of =
fwitt1@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, February =
02, 2006
2:19 To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: [frers-list]Re:
frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
Robert,<=
/p>
I have one of the two Frers 33's =
that are
currently sailing in the Chicago area. Regards to your questions, =
<=
/p>
1. The main problem seems to be =
with the
area under the mast step. There is wood in there which runs from an area =
just
forward of the aft end of the v berth to the transverse stringer just =
aft of
the main bulkhead. If water has gotten into that area (and at this age =
of boats
you can assume there is at least some intrusion on all of the boats) the =
area
becomes spongy and the mast can pump, or the boat will flex along the
transverse stringer. Look for a boat that has already had this work =
done. For
more information you can contact Crowleys Yacht Yard as they did the =
work on my
boat (Pepperke 2.0) and another boat that has since shipped out to =
Salt
Lake City (Impetuous) <=
/p>
2. No electrical problems, at =
least as far
as my boat
3. I have a tiller boat and I =
would guess
that all you'd have to do would be to remove the quadrant hardware and =
attach a
rudder cap to the top of the rudder post. I would assume that its the =
emergency
rudder on the wheel boats and might be the same as the tiller boats. =
Schaeffer
made the rudder cap on our boat. <=
/p>
4. The keel hull design is a bit =
strange
and if a signidicant amount of water has gotten into the area of the =
mast step,
it can migrate into the keel root. The boat has a keel root which =
extends some
8 to 12 inches below the hull. The keel bolts extend down this far and =
attache
the keel to the root. Then the keel is encased in a fiberglass sock and =
the
shape is faired into the sock. In fact the eliptical trailing edge on =
the keel
is hollow in some areas. If the keel root has been degraded due to =
the
water intrusion, them the root has to be rebuilt from the inside as well =
as the
outside. This was done to my boat and Crowleys can fill you in on the =
details. <=
/p>
If you have any other questions =
you can
contact me directly at fwitt1@comcast.net.
I can also put you in touch with the other Chicago owner who sails =
Mystified.
There may be another boat in Waukegan, although I don't know the name, =
there
was another in Hammond named Seacord, and yet another in Michigan City =
named
The Fearless Frog, but these boats are all inactive from what we can =
see.
It would be nice to get another Frers into competition in Chicago. =
<=
/p>
<=
/p>
Frank Wittosch<=
/p>
--------------
Original message --------------
From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific =
> than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Stephen, Robert)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 06: 02:02 -0600
> From: "Stephen, Robert"
> To:
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset=3D"us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
>
> =3D20
>
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
boats?
>
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is
> this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite? =
>
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
>
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull
> design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
>
> =3D20
>
> =3D20
>
> I live in the Chicago area
>
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what =
to
look
> for"
>
> =3D20
>
> Bob
>
> =3D20
>
>
>
> =
_________________________________________________________________________=
=3D
> ____
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for =
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and =
may
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt =
from
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail =
message
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible =
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are =
hereby
> notif ied that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this =
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in =
error,
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com =
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
>
>
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset=3D"us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
>
>
>=20
> charset=3D3Dus-ascii">
>=20
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>I am currently interested in purchasing a =
frers =3D
> 33.
> size=3D3D2
> face=3D3DArial>1)> size=3D3D1
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman">
> > style=3D3D'font-size: =
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can anyone update me as to where any =
specific
=3D
> coring
> issues in hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most =
of =3D
> these
> boats?
>
>
> size=3D3D2
> face=3D3DArial>2)> size=3D3D1
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman">
> > style=3D3D'font-size: =
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If I wanted to change out the wheel =
steering
=3D
> to a
> tiller is this reasonable or does the installation look like a =3D =
> morphidite?
> size=3D3D2
> face=3D3DArial>4)> size=3D3D1
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman">
> > style=3D3D'font-size: =
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any concern on the design as it =
relates to
the =3D
> keel
> to hull design or attachment. Separate from a bad =3D
> grounding.
> face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D
>
size=3D3D2>___________________________________________________________=
_____=3D
> _____________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products =3D
> Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or =3D
> entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is =3D
> privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable =3D
> law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended =3D
> recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the =3D
> message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any =3D
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is =3D
> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify =3D
> us immediately by e-mail at >
href=3D3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">>
size=3D3D2>legal@weberstephen.com > =
color=3D3D#0000ff
size=3D3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank =3D
> you.
>
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891--
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> frers-list mailing list
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>
>
> End of frers-list Digest <=
/p>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C627EF.DA8751EA--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Thu Feb 2 17:03:24 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Allan Heyward)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 12:03:24 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
In-Reply-To: <6539444DD3D1FD4DAC24334489AC375501D43DBE@weberm3.weberstephen.com>
Message-ID: <000501c6281a$97fe6450$6f00a8c0@ALLAN>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C627F0.AF285C50
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bob
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've
read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of
things to add, based on my experience:
The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the
stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the
keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know
for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may
not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a
potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the
hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute
to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge:
the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull,
but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in
the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and
that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the
hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other
thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at
least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the
bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel
bolts.
Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and
race.
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats?
2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is
this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull
design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
I live in the Chicago area
Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look
for"
Bob
________________________________________________________________________
_____
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at
legal@weberstephen.com
and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C627F0.AF285C50
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bob
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails =
and
races on the Chesapeake =
Bay. I’ve read Frank’s response on your =
question 4
and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =
experience:
The construction of the transverse
stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading =
edge of
the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition =
into the
hull. I don’t know for certain if this will be true on all =
boats,
as I understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it =
exists, it
creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of =
the
keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only
contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to =
the bilge:
the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, =
but a
crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in the =
hull.
This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and that you =
should look
carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is =
not as
traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to check is the =
keel
bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there =
was a mismatch
between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion =
of
several of the keel bolts.
Other than that, the boat is strong =
as an
ox and a delight to sail and race.
Allan M. Heyward, =
Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =
FEEHAN,
P.C.
804-747-4500
-----Original =
Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert Sent: Wednesday, February =
01, 2006
7:02 AM To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: =
[frers-list]questions on
a purchase of a frers 33
I am currently interested =
in
purchasing a frers 33.
1) =
Can anyone
update me as to where any specific coring issues in hull or the deck =
area that
might be consistent with most of these boats?
2) =
If I wanted
to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is this reasonable or does =
the
installation look like a morphidite?
3) =
Any
questionable electrical to look for?
4) =
Any concern
on the design as it relates to the keel to hull design or attachment. =
Separate
from a bad grounding.
I live in the Chicago =
area
Thanks for any advice or =
information
anyone can offer on “what to look for”
Bob
&nbs=
p;
________________________________________________________________=
_____________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This Weber-Stephen Products =
Company e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or =
entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is =
privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable =
law. If the reader of this e-mail message is not the intended =
recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of the =
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any =
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is =
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify =
us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com and also indicate the sender's name. Thank =
you.
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C627F0.AF285C50--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Fri Feb 3 01:02:04 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com ( Louise Brokaw)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 20:02:04 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
References: <6539444DD3D1FD4DAC24334489AC375501D44054@weberm3.weberstephen.com>
Message-ID: <003601c62864$f3e8f8d0$6401a8c0@Brokaw>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C62833.89CD3CD0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Robert,
I hope it's my boat you are coming to see - Pchomp Pchomp at =
Haverstraw Marina on the Hudson. My husband loved the boat and cruised =
and raced with it, but tragically, he died of colon cancer this past =
September. Although I'm the best first mate, I am not a sailor, so his =
beloved Frers 33 is up for sale. If it's another Frers you're looking =
at in NY, you should check ut ours also.
=
Louise Brokaw
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Stephen, Robert=20
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 3:53 PM
Subject: RE: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
Frank;
Is it possible to get on your boat to get a reference for =
the size of the cock pit and the room down below?
I am going to try to get out to see a Frers in NY but I will need a =
few weeks to get any reasonable flight reduction. If this time table =
gets moved out too far I will probably just drive out on a Friday night, =
get there sometime Saturday mid day. Get some sleep and then turn around =
and drive back.
I live in the northwest suburbs area if this help
My cell number is 847-254-0505
Our home number is 847-381-5619
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of =
fwitt1@comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:19 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
Robert,
I have one of the two Frers 33's that are currently sailing in the =
Chicago area. Regards to your questions,=20
1. The main problem seems to be with the area under the mast step. =
There is wood in there which runs from an area just forward of the aft =
end of the v berth to the transverse stringer just aft of the main =
bulkhead. If water has gotten into that area (and at this age of boats =
you can assume there is at least some intrusion on all of the boats) the =
area becomes spongy and the mast can pump, or the boat will flex along =
the transverse stringer. Look for a boat that has already had this work =
done. For more information you can contact Crowleys Yacht Yard as they =
did the work on my boat (Pepperke 2.0) and another boat that has since =
shipped out to Salt Lake City (Impetuous)=20
2. No electrical problems, at least as far as my boat
3. I have a tiller boat and I would guess that all you'd have to do =
would be to remove the quadrant hardware and attach a rudder cap to the =
top of the rudder post. I would assume that its the emergency rudder on =
the wheel boats and might be the same as the tiller boats. Schaeffer =
made the rudder cap on our boat.=20
4. The keel hull design is a bit strange and if a signidicant amount =
of water has gotten into the area of the mast step, it can migrate into =
the keel root. The boat has a keel root which extends some 8 to 12 =
inches below the hull. The keel bolts extend down this far and attache =
the keel to the root. Then the keel is encased in a fiberglass sock and =
the shape is faired into the sock. In fact the eliptical trailing edge =
on the keel is hollow in some areas. If the keel root has been degraded =
due to the water intrusion, them the root has to be rebuilt from the =
inside as well as the outside. This was done to my boat and Crowleys can =
fill you in on the details.=20
If you have any other questions you can contact me directly at =
fwitt1@comcast.net. I can also put you in touch with the other Chicago =
owner who sails Mystified. There may be another boat in Waukegan, =
although I don't know the name, there was another in Hammond named =
Seacord, and yet another in Michigan City named The Fearless Frog, but =
these boats are all inactive from what we can see. It would be nice to =
get another Frers into competition in Chicago.=20
Frank Wittosch
-------------- Original message --------------=20
From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com=20
> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to=20
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit=20
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list=20
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to=20
> frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> You can reach the person managing the list at=20
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more =
specific=20
> than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."=20
>=20
>=20
> Today's Topics:=20
>=20
> 1. questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Stephen, Robert)=20
>=20
> --__--__--=20
>=20
> Message: 1=20
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 06: 02:02 -0600=20
> From: "Stephen, Robert"=20
> To:=20
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891=20
> Content-Type: text/plain;=20
> charset=3D"us-ascii"=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
>=20
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in=20
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
boats?=20
>=20
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is=20
> this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?=20
>=20
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?=20
>=20
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull=20
> design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> I live in the Chicago area=20
>=20
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to =
look=20
> for"=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> Bob=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =
_________________________________________________________________________=
=3D=20
> ____=20
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:=20
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for=20
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and =
may=20
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt =
from=20
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail =
message=20
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent =
responsible=20
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are =
hereby=20
> notif ied that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this=20
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in =
error,=20
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com=20
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.=20
>=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891=20
> Content-Type: text/html;=20
> charset=3D"us-ascii"=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > charset=3D3Dus-ascii">=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>I am currently interested in purchasing a frers =
=3D=20
> 33.
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>1)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can anyone update me as to where any =
specific =3D=20
> coring=20
> issues in hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most =
of =3D=20
> these=20
> boats?
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>2)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If I wanted to change out the wheel =
steering =3D=20
> to a=20
> tiller is this reasonable or does the installation look like a =3D =
> morphidite?
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>3)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any questionable electrical to look =3D=20
> for?
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>4)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any concern on the design as it relates =
to the =3D=20
> keel=20
> to hull design or attachment. Separate from a bad =3D=20
> grounding.
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>I live in the Chicago area
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>Thanks for any advice or information anyone can =
offer =3D=20
> on "what=20
> to look for"
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>Bob
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'> =3D=20
> =20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D=20
> =
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>=20
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> End of frers-list Digest=20
=
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____
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
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is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
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------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C62833.89CD3CD0
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Robert,
I hope it's my =
boat you are=20
coming to see - Pchomp Pchomp at Haverstraw Marina on the Hudson. =
My=20
husband loved the boat and cruised and raced with it, but tragically, he =
died of=20
colon cancer this past September. Although I'm the best first =
mate, I am=20
not a sailor, so his beloved Frers 33 is up for sale. If it's =
another=20
Frers you're looking at in NY, you should check ut ours =
also.
=
=20
Is it possible to get on your boat to get a reference for the size of =
the cock=20
pit and the room down below?
I am going =
to try to=20
get out to see a Frers in NY but I will need a few weeks to get any =
reasonable=20
flight reduction. If this time table gets moved out too far I will =
probably=20
just drive out on a Friday night, get there sometime Saturday mid day. =
Get=20
some sleep and then turn around and drive back.
I live in =
the=20
northwest suburbs area if this help
My cell =
number is=20
847-254-0505
Our home =
number is=20
847-381-5619
From:=20
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]=20
On Behalf Of=20
fwitt1@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, February 02, =
2006 1:19=20
AM To:=20
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: [frers-list]Re: =
frers-list=20
digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
Robert,
I have one of the two Frers 33's that are =
currently=20
sailing in the Chicago area. Regards to your questions,=20
1. The main problem seems to be with the =
area under=20
the mast step. There is wood in there which runs from an area just =
forward of=20
the aft end of the v berth to the transverse stringer just aft of the =
main=20
bulkhead. If water has gotten into that area (and at this age of boats =
you can=20
assume there is at least some intrusion on all of the boats) the area =
becomes=20
spongy and the mast can pump, or the boat will flex along the =
transverse=20
stringer. Look for a boat that has already had this work done. For =
more=20
information you can contact Crowleys Yacht Yard as they did the work =
on my=20
boat (Pepperke 2.0) and another boat that has since shipped out =
to Salt=20
Lake City (Impetuous)
2. No electrical problems, at least as far =
as my=20
boat
3. I have a tiller boat and I would guess =
that all=20
you'd have to do would be to remove the quadrant hardware and attach a =
rudder=20
cap to the top of the rudder post. I would assume that its the =
emergency=20
rudder on the wheel boats and might be the same as the tiller boats. =
Schaeffer=20
made the rudder cap on our boat.
4. The keel hull design is a bit strange and =
if a=20
signidicant amount of water has gotten into the area of the mast step, =
it can=20
migrate into the keel root. The boat has a keel root which extends =
some 8 to=20
12 inches below the hull. The keel bolts extend down this far and =
attache the=20
keel to the root. Then the keel is encased in a fiberglass sock and =
the shape=20
is faired into the sock. In fact the eliptical trailing edge on the =
keel is=20
hollow in some areas. If the keel root has been degraded due to =
the=20
water intrusion, them the root has to be rebuilt from the inside as =
well as=20
the outside. This was done to my boat and Crowleys can fill you in on =
the=20
details.
If you have any other questions you can =
contact me=20
directly at fwitt1@comcast.net. I can=20
also put you in touch with the other Chicago owner who sails =
Mystified. There=20
may be another boat in Waukegan, although I don't know the name, there =
was=20
another in Hammond named Seacord, and yet another in Michigan City =
named The=20
Fearless Frog, but these boats are all inactive from what we can =
see. It=20
would be nice to get another Frers into competition in Chicago.=20
Frank Wittosch
-------------- Original message =
--------------=20
From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
> Send =
frers-list=20
mailing list submissions to > frers-list@lists.frers33.com =
>=20
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit =
>=20
http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list > or, =
via email,=20
send a message with subject or body 'help' to >=20
frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com > > You can reach =
the=20
person managing the list at > =
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it =
is more=20
specific > than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..." =
>=20
> > Today's Topics: > > 1. questions on =
a=20
purchase of a frers 33 (Stephen, Robert) > > =
--__--__--=20
> > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 06: =
02:02 -0600=20
> From: "Stephen, Robert" > =
To:=20
> Subject: =
[frers-list]questions on a=20
purchase of a frers 33 > Reply-To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. =
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891 > =
Content-Type:=20
text/plain; > charset=3D"us-ascii" > =
Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20
quoted-printable > > I am currently interested in =
purchasing a=20
frers 33. > > =3D20 > > 1) Can anyone =
update me as=20
to where any specific coring issues in > hull or the deck =
area that=20
might be consistent with most of these boats? > > 2) =
If I=20
wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is > this =
reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite? > =
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for? > =
> 4)=20
Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull > =
design=20
or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding. > > =
=3D20 >=20
> =3D20 > > I live in the Chicago area > =
>=20
Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to =
look=20
> for" > > =3D20 > > Bob > =
>=20
=3D20 > > > >=20
=
_________________________________________________________________________=
=3D=20
> ____ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: > This =
Weber-Stephen=20
Products Company e-mail is intended only for > the use of the =
individual or entity to which it is addressed and may > =
contain=20
information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from =
>=20
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail =
message=20
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent =
responsible=20
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you =
are=20
hereby > notif ied that any dissemination, distribution or =
copying of=20
this > communication is prohibited. If you have received this =
e-mail=20
in error, > please notify us immediately by e-mail at=20
legal@weberstephen.com > and also indicate the sender's name. =
Thank=20
you. > > > =
------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891=20
> Content-Type: text/html; > charset=3D"us-ascii" =
>=20
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > =
>=20
> >=20
> =
charset=3D3Dus-ascii">=20
>
>=20
> > > > > > > > >=20
> >
>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Arial'>I am =
currently=20
interested in purchasing a frers =3D > 33.
> size=3D3D2 > =
face=3D3DArial>1)>=20
size=3D3D1 > face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> >=20
> style=3D3D'font-size: >=20
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can anyone update me as to where any =
specific =3D=20
> coring > issues in hull or the deck area that might =
be=20
consistent with most of =3D > these > =
boats?
> >
> size=3D3D2 > =
face=3D3DArial>2)>=20
size=3D3D1 > face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> >=20
> style=3D3D'font-size: >=20
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If I wanted to change out the wheel =
steering =3D=20
> to a > tiller is this reasonable or does the =
installation=20
look like a =3D > morphidite?
> size=3D3D2 > =
face=3D3DArial>4)>=20
size=3D3D1 > face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> >=20
> style=3D3D'font-size: >=20
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any concern on the design as it relates =
to the=20
=3D > keel > to hull design or attachment. Separate =
from a bad =3D=20
> grounding.
>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Arial'>I live =
in the=20
Chicago area
> >
>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Arial'>Thanks =
for any=20
advice or information anyone can offer =3D > on =93what =
> to look=20
for=94
> face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =
=3D >=20
=
size=3D3D2>___________________________________________________________=
_____=3D=20
> _____________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This =
Weber-Stephen=20
Products =3D > Company e-mail is intended only for the use =
of the=20
individual or =3D > entity to which it is addressed and =
may contain=20
information that is =3D > privileged, confidential and exempt =
from disclosure under applicable =3D > law. If the reader =
of this=20
e-mail message is not the intended =3D > recipient, or the =
employee=20
or agent responsible for delivery of the =3D > message to =
the=20
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any =3D > =
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is =
=3D=20
> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in =
error, please=20
notify =3D > us immediately by e-mail at >=20
href=3D3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">>=20
size=3D3D2>legal@weberstephen.com >=20
color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. =
Thank =3D=20
> you.
> >=20
------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891-- > > =
>=20
--__--__-- > > =
_______________________________________________=20
> frers-list mailing list > =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list =
>=20
> > End of frers-list Digest=20
=
________________________________________________________________=
_____________ CONFIDENTIALITY=20
NOTE: This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only=20
for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed =
and=20
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from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail=20
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error, please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com and also indicate the sender's name. Thank=20
you.
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C62833.89CD3CD0--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Fri Feb 3 12:08:37 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:08:37 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Message-ID: <739F9600DCB1FF47AFEA52036723D4610207E187@naeanrfkez09.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bob,
=20
My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water =
getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there =
was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel =
like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. =
That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and =
hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is =
to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with =
5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then =
next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by =
about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them a =
couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel. =
Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the =
lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up =
being the 5200.
=20
If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
=20
Thanks,
Frank Albert
=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
Bob
=20
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've =
read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of =
things to add, based on my experience:
=20
The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the =
stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the =
keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know =
for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may =
not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the =
hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute =
to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: =
the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, =
but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in =
the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the =
hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other =
thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at =
least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the =
bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel =
bolts.
=20
Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and =
race.
=20
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
=20
1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats?
2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
=20
=20
I live in the Chicago area
Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =
for"
=20
Bob
=20
_________________________________________________________________________=
____
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at =
legal@weberstephen.com
and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bo=
b,
My=
boat
may have that new crack problem. =
I
noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.This fall when they hauled the =
boat
there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
suppose
the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions =
someone
mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 =
inches)
and water from the bilge was seeping out.That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =
keel and
hull joint are right at that crack.Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =
then grind
out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol.They said if that =
doesn't work
then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel =
by
about 3 inches.Their =
experience
with this process has taught them a couple of things.First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
just this
way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.Second, 5200 really does not =
want to
let go.They've had boats =
in the
lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up =
being the
5200.
If=
anyone
has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =
it.
Th=
anks,
Fr=
ank
Albert
-----Original Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward Sent: Thursday, February =
02, 2006
12:03 To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob<=
/p>
<=
/p>
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails =
and
races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read Frank’s =
response on your question
4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =
experience:<=
/p>
<=
/p>
The construction of the transverse =
stringer
leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading edge of the =
keel
sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition into the =
hull.
I don’t know for certain if this will be true on all boats, =
as I
understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists,
it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =
edge
of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that will =
not only
contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to =
the
bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and =
hull,
but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in =
the
hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
that you
should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. =
The
fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to =
check
is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat =
(mine)
there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused
substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.<=
/p>
<=
/p>
Other than that, the boat is strong =
as an
ox and a delight to sail and race.<=
/p>
<=
/p>
Allan M. Heyward, =
Jr.<=
/p>
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =
FEEHAN,
P.C.
804-747-4500<=
/p>
<=
/p>
-----Original
Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert Sent: Wednesday, February =
01, 2006
7:02 AM To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: =
[frers-list]questions on
a purchase of a frers 33
<=
/p>
I am
currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.<=
/p>
<=
/p>
1) =
Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues =
in
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
boats?<=
/p>
2) =
If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
this
reasonable or does the installation look like a =
morphidite?<=
/p>
3) =
Any questionable electrical to look for?<=
/p>
4) =
Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
design
or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.<=
/p>
<=
/p>
<=
/p>
I live
in the Chicago area
Thanks
for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look =
for”<=
/p>
<=
/p>
Bob<=
/p>
&nbs=
p;
<=
/p>
________________________________________________________________=
_____________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This Weber-Stephen Products =
Company e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or =
entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is =
privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable =
law. If the reader of this e-mail message is not the intended =
recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of the =
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any =
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is =
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify =
us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com and also indicate the sender's name. Thank =
you.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Fri Feb 3 20:14:30 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:14:30 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Message-ID: <739F9600DCB1FF47AFEA52036723D4610207E18D@naeanrfkez09.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if =
anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what =
year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been =
built in the same year as mine.
=20
Thanks,
Frank Albert
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis =
X CIV SEA 01
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
Bob,
=20
My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water =
getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there =
was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel =
like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. =
That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and =
hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is =
to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with =
5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then =
next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by =
about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them a =
couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel. =
Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the =
lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up =
being the 5200.
=20
If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
=20
Thanks,
Frank Albert
=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
Bob
=20
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've =
read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of =
things to add, based on my experience:
=20
The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the =
stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the =
keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know =
for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may =
not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the =
hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute =
to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: =
the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, =
but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in =
the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the =
hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other =
thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at =
least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the =
bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel =
bolts.
=20
Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and =
race.
=20
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
=20
1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats?
2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
=20
=20
I live in the Chicago area
Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =
for"
=20
Bob
=20
_________________________________________________________________________=
____
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at =
legal@weberstephen.com
and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and =
if
anyone knows of a different version.Allen your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built?Wild thing was number 37 and =
may have
been built in the same year as mine.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV =
SEA 01 Sent: Friday, February =
03, 2006
7:09 To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33
Bo=
b,
My=
boat
may have that new crack problem. =
I
noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.This fall when they hauled the =
boat
there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
suppose
the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions =
someone
mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 =
inches)
and water from the bilge was seeping out.That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =
keel and
hull joint are right at that crack.Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =
then
grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using =
alcohol.They said if that =
doesn't work
then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel =
by
about 3 inches.Their =
experience
with this process has taught them a couple of things.First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
just this
way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.Second, 5200 really does not =
want to
let go.They've had boats =
in the
lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up =
being the
5200.
If=
anyone
has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =
it.
Th=
anks,
Fr=
ank
Albert
=
-----Original Message----- From: =
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On
Behalf Of Allan Heyward Sent: Thursday, February =
02, 2006
12:03 To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33<=
/p>
<=
/p>
Bob<=
/p>
<=
/p>
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails =
and
races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read Frank’s =
response on your question
4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =
experience:<=
/p>
<=
/p>
The construction of the transverse
stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading =
edge of
the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition =
into the
hull. I don’t know for certain if this will be true on all =
boats, as I
understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists,
it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =
edge
of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that will =
not only
contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to =
the
bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and =
hull,
but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in =
the
hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
that you
should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. =
The
fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to =
check
is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat =
(mine)
there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused
substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.<=
/p>
<=
/p>
Other than that, the boat is strong =
as an
ox and a delight to sail and race.<=
/p>
<=
/p>
Allan M. Heyward, =
Jr.<=
/p>
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =
FEEHAN,
P.C.
804-747-4500<=
/p>
<=
/p>
-----Original
Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert Sent: Wednesday, February =
01, 2006
7:02 AM To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: =
[frers-list]questions on
a purchase of a frers 33
<=
/p>
I am
currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.<=
/p>
<=
/p>
1) =
Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues =
in
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
boats?<=
/p>
2) =
If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
this reasonable
or does the installation look like a morphidite?<=
/p>
3) =
Any questionable electrical to look for?<=
/p>
4) =
Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
design
or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.<=
/p>
<=
/p>
<=
/p>
I live
in the Chicago area
Thanks
for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look =
for”<=
/p>
<=
/p>
Bob<=
/p>
&nbs=
p;
<=
/p>
________________________________________________________________=
_____________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This Weber-Stephen Products =
Company e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or =
entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is =
privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable =
law. If the reader of this e-mail message is not the intended =
recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of the =
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any =
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is =
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify =
us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com and also indicate the sender's name. Thank =
you.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Fri Feb 3 20:38:39 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Dan Boyd)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:38:39 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
In-Reply-To: <739F9600DCB1FF47AFEA52036723D4610207E18D@naeanrfkez09.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil>
Message-ID:
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
--=_alternative 007167698525710A_=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
WildThing is MFG in 1988.
Dan Boyd
Biogen Idec Inc
Tel: 1.617.679.2274
Fax: 1.617.679.3599
"Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01" =20
Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
02/03/2006 03:14 PM
Please respond to
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Message Size: 32.4 KB
To
cc
Subject
RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if anyone=20
knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what year was =
your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been built in the=20
same year as mine.
=20
Thanks,
Frank Albert
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X=20
CIV SEA 01
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
Bob,
=20
My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water=20
getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there=20
was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would suppose=20
the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions=20
someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to =
12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull=20
thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are=20
right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the=20
keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it=20
using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then next year they will=20
remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their=20
experience with this process has taught them a couple of things. First=20
most boats had the keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of=20
5200 spread over the entire top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not =
want to let go. They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours=20
with the only thing holding the keel up being the 5200.
=20
If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
=20
Thanks,
Frank Albert
=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
Bob
=20
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I?ve=20
read Frank?s response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things=20
to add, based on my experience:
=20
The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the=20
stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the=20
keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don?t know for =
certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may not=20
have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a potential=20
structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows=20
separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute to=20
deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: the=20
reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, but a=20
crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in the hull. =
This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and that you should =
look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is=20
not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to check is the=20
keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine)=20
there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused=20
substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.
=20
Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and=20
race.
=20
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
=20
1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in=20
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats?
2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is this=20
reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull=20
design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
=20
=20
I live in the Chicago area
Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on ?what to look=20
for?
=20
Bob
=20
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com
and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
--=_alternative 007167698525710A_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
WildThing is MFG in 1988.
Dan Boyd
Biogen Idec Inc
Tel: 1.617.679.2274
Fax: 1.617.679.3599
"Albert, Francis=
X
CIV SEA 01" <francis.albert@navy.mil> Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frer=
s33.com
02/03/2006 03:14 PM
Please respond to
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Message Size: 32.4 KB
To
<frers-list@lists.frers33.com>=
cc
Subject
RE: [frers-list]questions on a purch=
ase
of a frers 33
Alright big question is w=
here
all these boats made the same and if anyone knows of a different version.
Allen your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built? Wi=
ld
thing was number 37 and may have been built in the same year as mine.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists=
.frers33.com]On
Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob,
My boat may have that new =
crack
problem. I noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.
This fall when they hauled the boat there was a crack right at the
top of the keel right at where you would suppose the keel to hull joint
would be (however, in one of these discussions someone mentioned the actual
hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from
the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull thing seems pretty strange
and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right at that crack. The=
ir
suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out
the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They
said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove the bolts and
lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their experience with
this process has taught them a couple of things. First most boats
had the keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread
over the entire top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not want
to let go. They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours
with the only thing holding the keel up being the 5200.
If anyone has had a similar
experience I'd like to hear about it.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists=
.frers33.com]On
Behalf Of Allan Heyward
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that
sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read Frank’s =
response
on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my
experience:
The construction of the tr=
ansverse
stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading edge
of the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition
into the hull. I don’t know for certain if this will be true on
all boats, as I understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but
where it exists, it creates a potential structural weak point. =
If
the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get
a leak that will not only contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer,
but provides a path to the bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing
separation between keel and hull, but a crack in the sump which, over time
and load can create a tear in the hull. This is one reason a fix
from the inside is desirable and that you should look carefully at the
leading edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is not as traumatic
as the problem sounds. The other thing to check is the keel bolts
for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there was a
mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial
erosion of several of the keel bolts.
Other than that, the boat =
is
strong as an ox and a delight to sail and race.
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER
& FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists=
.frers33.com]
On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
I am currently interested in purchasing a
frers 33.
1) &nb=
sp;
Can anyone update me as to where any s=
pecific
coring issues in hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most
of these boats?
2) &nb=
sp;
If I wanted to change out the wheel st=
eering
to a tiller is this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphid=
ite?
3) &nb=
sp;
Any questionable electrical to look fo=
r?
4) &nb=
sp;
Any concern on the design as it relates
to the keel to hull design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
I live in the Chicago area
Thanks for any advice or information anyone
can offer on “what to look for”
Bob
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstep=
hen.com
and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
--=_alternative 007167698525710A_=--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Fri Feb 3 20:51:23 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Kurt Hudson)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:51:23 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <200602032051.PAA26108@ajax.cnchost.com>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C628D9.AF427420
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Eclipse is hull #29 MFG 1987
_____
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Dan Boyd
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:39 PM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
WildThing is MFG in 1988.
Dan Boyd
Biogen Idec Inc
Tel: 1.617.679.2274
Fax: 1.617.679.3599
"Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"
Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
02/03/2006 03:14 PM
Please respond to
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Message Size: 32.4 KB
To
cc
Subject
RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if anyone
knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what year was
your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been built in the
same year as mine.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X
CIV SEA 01
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob,
My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water
getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there was
a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would suppose the
keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions someone
mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12
inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull thing
seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right at
that crack. Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and
then grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol.
They said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove the bolts and
lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their experience with this
process has taught them a couple of things. First most boats had the keels
joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire
top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had
boats in the lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the
keel up being the 5200.
If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've
read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to
add, based on my experience:
The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the stringer
that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the keel is
bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know for certain
if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may not have wood in
the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a potential structural weak
point. If the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows separation you
will get a leak that will not only contribute to deterioration of the wood
stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: the reason is that you are not
seeing separation between keel and hull, but a crack in the sump which, over
time and load can create a tear in the hull. This is one reason a fix from
the inside is desirable and that you should look carefully at the leading
edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem
sounds. The other thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice
corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between
stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several
of the keel bolts.
Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and race.
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in hull
or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats?
2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is this
reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull design
or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
I live in the Chicago area
Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look for"
Bob
____________________________________________________________________________
_
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at
legal@weberstephen.com
and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C628D9.AF427420
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Eclipse is hull #29 MFG =
1987
From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Dan Boyd Sent: Friday, February =
03, 2006
3:39 PM To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33
WildThing is MFG in 1988.
Dan
Boyd
Biogen Idec Inc
Tel: 1.617.679.2274
Fax: 1.617.679.3599
"Albert, =
Francis =
XCIVSEA 01"
<francis.albert@navy.mil> Sent
by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
02/03/2006 03:14 PM
Please
respond to
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Message Size: 32.4 =
KB
To
<frers-list@lists.frers33.com>=
cc
Subject
RE: [frers-list]questions on a =
purchase of a
frers 33
Alright big question is where =
all these
boats made the same and if anyone knows of a different version. =
Allen
your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built? Wild thing =
was
number 37 and may have been built in the same year as =
mine.
Thanks,
Frank Albert =
-----Original
Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On
Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers =
33
Bob,
My boat may have that new crack problem. I =
noticed last
summer water getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they =
hauled the
boat there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you =
would
suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
discussions
someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 =
to 12
inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull =
thing
seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right =
at that
crack. Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts =
and
then grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using =
alcohol.
They said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove =
the bolts
and lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their experience =
with
this process has taught them a couple of things. First most boats =
had the
keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over =
the
entire top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not want to let =
go.
They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours with the =
only
thing holding the keel up being the 5200.
If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to =
hear about
it.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original
Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On
Behalf Of Allan Heyward
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers =
33
Bob
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the =
Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read =
Frank’s
response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to add, =
based on
my experience:
The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a =
void
below the stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to =
which
the keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I
don’t know for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I =
understand
some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it =
creates
a potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel =
at the
hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute =
to
deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: =
the
reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, but =
a crack
in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in the hull. =
This
is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and that you should =
look
carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is =
not as
traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to check is the =
keel
bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there =
was a
mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial
erosion of several of the keel bolts.
Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a =
delight to
sail and race.
Allan M.
Heyward, Jr. COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, =
P.C. 804-747-4500
-----Original
Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On
Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers =
33
I
am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33. =
1) =
Can anyone
update me as to where any specific coring issues in hull or the deck =
area that
might be consistent with most of these boats? =
2) =
If I wanted
to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is this reasonable or does =
the
installation look like a morphidite?
3) =
Any
questionable electrical to look for?
4) =
Any concern
on the design as it relates to the keel to hull design or attachment. =
Separate
from a bad grounding.
I
live in the Chicago
area
Thanks
for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look
for”
Bob
_________________________________________________________________________=
____
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail =
message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are =
hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in =
error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com
and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. =
------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C628D9.AF427420--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Fri Feb 3 21:09:02 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Arthur Kelley)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 16:09:02 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
References: <739F9600DCB1FF47AFEA52036723D4610207E18D@naeanrfkez09.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <045a01c62906$105471b0$674da8c0@art8100>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--Boundary_(ID_+vaZoby8b4tMWOrXCB+7pw)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
And as part of that same question, is that transverse member completely =
horizontal from settee to settee, or do some angle downward toward the =
mast butt? I saw one where it was sloped downward, whereas mine is =
completely horizontal. Was that other displaying damage, or was that by =
design?
#55, built 1990.
Art
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01=20
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:14 PM
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if =
anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what =
year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been =
built in the same year as mine.
=20
Thanks,
Frank Albert
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis =
X CIV SEA 01
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
Bob,
=20
My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water =
getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there =
was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel =
like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. =
That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and =
hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is =
to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with =
5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then =
next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by =
about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them a =
couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel. =
Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the =
lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up =
being the 5200.
=20
If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
=20
Thanks,
Frank Albert
=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
Bob
=20
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. =
I've read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of =
things to add, based on my experience:
=20
The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the =
stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the =
keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know =
for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may =
not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the =
hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute =
to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: =
the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, =
but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in =
the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the =
hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other =
thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at =
least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the =
bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel =
bolts.
=20
Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and =
race.
=20
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
=20
1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues =
in hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
boats?
2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
=20
=20
I live in the Chicago area
Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =
for"
=20
Bob
=20
=
_________________________________________________________________________=
____
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in =
error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com
and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
--Boundary_(ID_+vaZoby8b4tMWOrXCB+7pw)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
And as part of that same question, is =
that=20
transverse member completely horizontal from settee to settee, or do =
some angle=20
downward toward the mast butt? I saw one where it was sloped =
downward,=20
whereas mine is completely horizontal. Was that other displaying =
damage,=20
or was that by design?
Subject: RE: =
[frers-list]questions on a=20
purchase of a frers 33
Alright=20
big question is where all these boats made the same and if anyone =
knows of a=20
different version. =
Allen your=20
boat was number 14 what year was your boat built?Wild thing was number 37 and =
may have=20
been built in the same year as =
mine.
Thanks,
Frank=20
Albert
-----Original=20
Message----- From: =
frers-list-admin@lists=
.frers33.com=20
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X =
CIV SEA=20
01 Sent: Friday, =
February 03,=20
2006 7:09 To:=20
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =
[frers-list]questions on a=20
purchase of a frers 33
Bob,
My=20
boat may have that new crack problem. =20
I noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.This fall when they hauled =
the boat=20
there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you =
would=20
suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
discussions=20
someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about =
10 to 12=20
inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull thing seems =
pretty=20
strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right at that =
crack. Their suggestion for this =
year is to=20
snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with =
5200,=20
fairing it using alcohol. =20
They said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove =
the=20
bolts and lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their experience with this =
process has=20
taught them a couple of things. =20
First most boats had the keels joined to the hull just this way =
with a=20
ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not =
want to=20
let go.They've had =
boats in the=20
lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up =
being=20
the 5200.
If=20
anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about=20
it.
Thanks,
Frank=20
Albert
=20
-----Original=20
Message----- From:=20
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan =
Heyward Sent: Thursday, February 02, =
2006=20
12:03 To:=20
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =
[frers-list]questions on a=20
purchase of a frers 33
Bob
I have a =
1987 Frers=20
33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I=92ve read =
Frank=92s=20
response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to add, =
based on=20
my experience:
The =
construction of=20
the transverse stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends =
to the=20
leading edge of the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point =
of=20
transition into the hull. I don=92t know for certain if this =
will be true=20
on all boats, as I understand some may not have wood in the stringers, =
but=20
where it exists, it creates a potential structural weak =
point. If=20
the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get =
a leak=20
that will not only contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, =
but=20
provides a path to the bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing =
separation=20
between keel and hull, but a crack in the sump which, over time and =
load can=20
create a tear in the hull. This is one reason a fix from the =
inside is=20
desirable and that you should look carefully at the leading edge of =
the keel=20
at the hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem =
sounds. =20
The other thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, =
as on=20
at least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the =
bolts=20
and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel=20
bolts.
Other than =
that, the=20
boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and =
race.
Allan M. =
Heyward,=20
Jr.
COOK, =
HEYWARD, LEE,=20
HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
-----Original=20
Message----- From:=20
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]=20
On Behalf Of Stephen,=20
Robert Sent: =
Wednesday,=20
February 01, 2006 7:02 AM To:=20
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: [frers-list]questions =
on a=20
purchase of a frers 33
I am=20
currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
1) =20
Can anyone =
update me=20
as to where any specific coring issues in hull or the deck area that =
might be=20
consistent with most of these boats?
2) =20
If I =
wanted to=20
change out the wheel steering to a tiller is this reasonable or does =
the=20
installation look like a morphidite?
3) =20
Any =
questionable=20
electrical to look for?
4) =20
Any =
concern on the=20
design as it relates to the keel to hull design or attachment. =
Separate from a=20
bad grounding.
I live=20
in the Chicago area
Thanks=20
for any advice or information anyone can offer on =93what to look=20
for=94
Bob
=
=20
________________________________________________________________=
_____________ CONFIDENTIALITY=20
NOTE: This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only=20
for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed =
and=20
may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt =
from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail=20
message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent=20
responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, =
you are=20
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of=20
this communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail =
in=20
error, please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com and also indicate the sender's name. Thank=20
you.
--Boundary_(ID_+vaZoby8b4tMWOrXCB+7pw)--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Fri Feb 3 13:44:00 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Stephen, Robert)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:44:00 -0600
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
Message-ID: <6539444DD3D1FD4DAC24334489AC375501D440B7@weberm3.weberstephen.com>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C628C7.E44C7C29
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Louise;
Yes. It is your boat I am trying to get out to see. I live
in Chicago and was trying to get a decent flight out but I waited too
long so maybe next weekend?=20
I am sorry about the circumstance for you to be selling the boat. If all
works out maybe I can be out there February 11?
=20
=20
Bob
=20
=20
________________________________
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Louise Brokaw
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 7:02 PM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
=20
Robert,
I hope it's my boat you are coming to see - Pchomp Pchomp at
Haverstraw Marina on the Hudson. My husband loved the boat and cruised
and raced with it, but tragically, he died of colon cancer this past
September. Although I'm the best first mate, I am not a sailor, so his
beloved Frers 33 is up for sale. If it's another Frers you're looking
at in NY, you should check ut ours also.
=20
Louise Brokaw
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Stephen, Robert =20
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 3:53 PM
Subject: RE: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1
msg
=20
Frank;
Is it possible to get on your boat to get a
reference for the size of the cock pit and the room down below?
I am going to try to get out to see a Frers in NY but I will
need a few weeks to get any reasonable flight reduction. If this time
table gets moved out too far I will probably just drive out on a Friday
night, get there sometime Saturday mid day. Get some sleep and then turn
around and drive back.
=20
I live in the northwest suburbs area if this help
My cell number is 847-254-0505
Our home number is 847-381-5619
=20
=09
________________________________
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of
fwitt1@comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:19 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
=20
Robert,
I have one of the two Frers 33's that are currently sailing in
the Chicago area. Regards to your questions,=20
1. The main problem seems to be with the area under the mast
step. There is wood in there which runs from an area just forward of the
aft end of the v berth to the transverse stringer just aft of the main
bulkhead. If water has gotten into that area (and at this age of boats
you can assume there is at least some intrusion on all of the boats) the
area becomes spongy and the mast can pump, or the boat will flex along
the transverse stringer. Look for a boat that has already had this work
done. For more information you can contact Crowleys Yacht Yard as they
did the work on my boat (Pepperke 2.0) and another boat that has since
shipped out to Salt Lake City (Impetuous)=20
2. No electrical problems, at least as far as my boat
3. I have a tiller boat and I would guess that all you'd have to
do would be to remove the quadrant hardware and attach a rudder cap to
the top of the rudder post. I would assume that its the emergency rudder
on the wheel boats and might be the same as the tiller boats. Schaeffer
made the rudder cap on our boat.=20
4. The keel hull design is a bit strange and if a signidicant
amount of water has gotten into the area of the mast step, it can
migrate into the keel root. The boat has a keel root which extends some
8 to 12 inches below the hull. The keel bolts extend down this far and
attache the keel to the root. Then the keel is encased in a fiberglass
sock and the shape is faired into the sock. In fact the eliptical
trailing edge on the keel is hollow in some areas. If the keel root has
been degraded due to the water intrusion, them the root has to be
rebuilt from the inside as well as the outside. This was done to my boat
and Crowleys can fill you in on the details.=20
If you have any other questions you can contact me directly at
fwitt1@comcast.net. I can also put you in touch with the other Chicago
owner who sails Mystified. There may be another boat in Waukegan,
although I don't know the name, there was another in Hammond named
Seacord, and yet another in Michigan City named The Fearless Frog, but
these boats are all inactive from what we can see. It would be nice to
get another Frers into competition in Chicago.=20
=20
Frank Wittosch
-------------- Original message --------------=20
From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com=20
=09
> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to=20
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
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visit=20
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list=20
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body
'help' to=20
> frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> You can reach the person managing the list at=20
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is
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> than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."=20
>=20
>=20
> Today's Topics:=20
>=20
> 1. questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Stephen,
Robert)=20
>=20
> --__--__--=20
>=20
> Message: 1=20
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 06: 02:02 -0600=20
> From: "Stephen, Robert"=20
> To:=20
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a
frers 33=20
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891=20
> Content-Type: text/plain;=20
> charset=3D"us-ascii"=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
>=20
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific
coring issues in=20
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with
most of these boats?=20
>=20
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a
tiller is=20
> this reasonable or does the installation look like a
morphidite?=20
>=20
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?=20
>=20
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel
to hull=20
> design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> I live in the Chicago area=20
>=20
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer
on "what to look=20
> for"=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> Bob=20
>=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>
________________________________________________________________________
_=3D=20
> ____=20
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:=20
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended
only for=20
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is
addressed and may=20
> contain information that is privileged, confidential
and exempt from=20
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this
e-mail message=20
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or
agent responsible=20
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient,
you are hereby=20
> notif ied that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this=20
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this
e-mail in error,=20
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at
legal@weberstephen.com=20
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.=20
>=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891=20
> Content-Type: text/html;=20
> charset=3D"us-ascii"=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> charset=3D3Dus-ascii">=20
>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>I am currently interested in
purchasing a frers =3D=20
> 33.
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>1)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can anyone update me as to
where any specific =3D=20
> coring=20
> issues in hull or the deck area that might be
consistent with most of =3D=20
> these=20
> boats?
=09
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>2)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If I wanted to change out
the wheel steering =3D=20
> to a=20
> tiller is this reasonable or does the installation
look like a =3D=20
> morphidite?
=09
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>3)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any questionable electrical
to look =3D=20
> for?
=09
>=20
>=20
> size=3D3D2=20
> face=3D3DArial>4)> size=3D3D1=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman"> =20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any concern on the design as
it relates to the =3D=20
> keel=20
> to hull design or attachment. Separate from a bad =3D=20
> grounding.
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>I live in the Chicago area
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>Thanks for any advice or
information anyone can offer =3D=20
> on "what=20
> to look for"
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'>Bob
=09
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=20
> font-family:Arial'> =3D=20
> =20
=09
>=20
>=20
=09
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
=09
> face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D=20
>
size=3D3D2>______________________________________________________________=
_
_=3D=20
> _____________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products =3D=20
> Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or =3D=20
> entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is =3D=20
> privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable =3D=20
> law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended =3D=20
> recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the =3D=20
> message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any =3D=20
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is =3D=20
> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify =3D=20
> us immediately by e-mail at >
href=3D3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> =
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> color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>and also indicate the
sender's name. Thank =3D=20
> you.
=09
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891--=20
>=20
>=20
> --__--__--=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________=20
> frers-list mailing list=20
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list=20
>=20
>=20
> End of frers-list Digest=20
=09
=09
________________________________________________________________________
_____
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and
may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt
from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail
message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent
responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are
hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
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and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C628C7.E44C7C29
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Louise;
=
Yes.
It is your boat I am trying to get out to see. I live in Chicago and was =
trying
to get a decent flight out but I waited too long so maybe next weekend? =
I am sorry about =
the
circumstance for you to be selling the boat. If all works out maybe I =
can be
out there February 11?
Bob=
From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Louise Brokaw Sent: Thursday, February =
02, 2006
7:02 PM To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: Re: =
[frers-list]Re:
frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
Robert,
I hope it's my =
boat you
are coming to see - Pchomp Pchomp at Haverstraw Marina on the =
Hudson. My
husband loved the boat and cruised and raced with it, but tragically, he =
died
of colon cancer this past September. Although I'm the best first =
mate, I
am not a sailor, so his beloved Frers 33 is up for sale. If it's =
another
Frers you're looking at in NY, you should check ut ours =
also.
=
Is it possible to get on your boat to get a reference for the size of =
the cock
pit and the room down below?
I am going to try to get out to see =
a
Frers in NY but I will need a few weeks to get any reasonable flight =
reduction.
If this time table gets moved out too far I will probably just drive out =
on a
Friday night, get there sometime Saturday mid day. Get some sleep and =
then turn
around and drive back.
I live in the northwest suburbs =
area if
this help
My cell number is =
847-254-0505
Our home number is =
847-381-5619
From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of =
fwitt1@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, February =
02, 2006
1:19 AM To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: [frers-list]Re:
frers-list digest, Vol 1 #161 - 1 msg
Robert,
I have one of the two Frers 33's that are currently sailing in =
the Chicago area. Regards to your questions,
1. The main problem seems to be with the area under the mast =
step.
There is wood in there which runs from an area just forward of the aft =
end of
the v berth to the transverse stringer just aft of the main bulkhead. If =
water
has gotten into that area (and at this age of boats you can assume there =
is at
least some intrusion on all of the boats) the area becomes spongy and =
the mast
can pump, or the boat will flex along the transverse stringer. Look for =
a boat
that has already had this work done. For more information you can =
contact
Crowleys Yacht Yard as they did the work on my boat (Pepperke 2.0) and =
another
boat that has since shipped out to Salt Lake City =
(Impetuous)
2. No electrical problems, at least as far as my =
boat
3. I have a tiller boat and I would guess that all you'd have to =
do
would be to remove the quadrant hardware and attach a rudder cap to the =
top of
the rudder post. I would assume that its the emergency rudder on the =
wheel
boats and might be the same as the tiller boats. Schaeffer made the =
rudder cap
on our boat.
4. The keel hull design is a bit strange and if a signidicant =
amount of
water has gotten into the area of the mast step, it can migrate into the =
keel
root. The boat has a keel root which extends some 8 to 12 inches below =
the
hull. The keel bolts extend down this far and attache the keel to the =
root.
Then the keel is encased in a fiberglass sock and the shape is faired =
into the
sock. In fact the eliptical trailing edge on the keel is hollow in some
areas. If the keel root has been degraded due to the water =
intrusion,
them the root has to be rebuilt from the inside as well as the outside. =
This
was done to my boat and Crowleys can fill you in on the details. =
If you have any other questions you can contact me directly at =
fwitt1@comcast.net. I can also =
put you in
touch with the other Chicago owner who sails Mystified. There may be =
another
boat in Waukegan, although I don't know the name, there was another in =
Hammond named Seacord, and yet another in Michigan City named The =
Fearless Frog, but these
boats are all inactive from what we can see. It would be nice to =
get
another Frers into competition in Chicago.
Frank Wittosch
-------------- Original message --------------
From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific =
> than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Stephen, Robert)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 06: 02:02 -0600
> From: "Stephen, Robert" > To: > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a =
purchase
of a frers 33
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset=3D"us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
>
> =3D20
>
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
boats?
>
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is
> this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite? =
>
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
>
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull
> design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
>
> =3D20
>
> =3D20
>
> I live in the Chicago area
>
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what =
to
look
> for"
>
> =3D20
>
> Bob
>
> =3D20
>
>
>
> =
_________________________________________________________________________=
=3D
> ____
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for =
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and =
may
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt =
from
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail =
message
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible =
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are =
hereby
> notif ied that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this =
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in =
error,
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com =
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
>
>
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset=3D"us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
>
>
>=20
> charset=3D3Dus-ascii">
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>I am currently interested in purchasing a =
frers =3D
> 33.
> size=3D3D2
> face=3D3DArial>1)> size=3D3D1
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman">
> >
style=3D3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can anyone update me as to where any =
specific
=3D
> coring
> issues in hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most =
of =3D
> these
> boats?
>
>
> size=3D3D2
> face=3D3DArial>2)> size=3D3D1
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman">
> >
style=3D3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If I wanted to change out the wheel =
steering
=3D
> to a
> tiller is this reasonable or does the installation look like a =3D =
> morphidite?
> size=3D3D2
> face=3D3DArial>4)> size=3D3D1
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman">
> >
style=3D3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any concern on the design as it =
relates to
the =3D
> keel
> to hull design or attachment. Separate from a bad =3D
> grounding.
> face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D
>
size=3D3D2>___________________________________________________________=
_____=3D
> _____________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products =3D
> Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or =3D
> entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is =3D
> privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable =3D
> law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended =3D
> recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the =3D
> message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any =3D
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is =3D
> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify =3D
> us immediately by e-mail at > =
href=3D3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">>
size=3D3D2>legal@weberstephen.com >
color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. =
Thank =3D
> you.
>
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C62727.51066891--
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> frers-list mailing list
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>
>
> End of frers-list Digest
___________________________________________=
__________________________________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail =
message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are =
hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in =
error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com and also indicate the sender's name. Thank =
you.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C628C7.E44C7C29--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Fri Feb 3 21:02:31 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Allan Heyward)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 16:02:31 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
In-Reply-To: <739F9600DCB1FF47AFEA52036723D4610207E18D@naeanrfkez09.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil>
Message-ID: <000901c62905$29c15830$6f00a8c0@ALLAN>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C628DB.40EB5030
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
'87, I think. I know there were differences in what was put in the
longitudinal from what I've seen in the discussions, but what you say
about a crack at the front of the sump and water coming in, I'd bet big
that you'll find the same thing we did when we opened it up. From
conversations with the lads at Carroll when we took the keel off in 2001
or so, I do know all of them have the same keel root/sump.
As Paul explained it to me, they glassed the wood into molded the hull
liner to make the longitudinal, put filler in the forward part of the
sump, then put liner in. When the filler set up, it shrank, leaving the
void (either that or they didn't fill it enough, but the void was only
about 1/8-1/4 inches.
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Albert, Francis
X CIV SEA 01
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:15 PM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if
anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what
year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been
built in the same year as mine.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis
X CIV SEA 01
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob,
My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water
getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there
was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would
suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these
discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel
like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out.
That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and
hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is
to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with
5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then
next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by
about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them a
couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull
just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.
Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the
lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up
being the 5200.
If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've
read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of
things to add, based on my experience:
The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the
stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the
keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know
for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may
not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a
potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the
hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute
to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge:
the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull,
but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in
the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and
that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the
hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other
thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at
least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the
bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel
bolts.
Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and
race.
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats?
2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is
this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull
design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
I live in the Chicago area
Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look
for"
Bob
________________________________________________________________________
_____
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at
legal@weberstephen.com
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charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
’87, I
think. I know there were differences in what was put in the =
longitudinal
from what I’ve seen in the discussions, but what you say about a =
crack at
the front of the sump and water coming in, I’d bet big that =
you’ll find
the same thing we did when we opened it up. From conversations =
with the lads
at Carroll when we took the keel off in 2001 or so, I do know all of =
them have the
same keel root/sump.
<=
/font>
As Paul =
explained it
to me, they glassed the wood into molded the hull liner to make the
longitudinal, put filler in the forward part of the sump, then put liner
in. When the filler set up, it shrank, leaving the void (either =
that or
they didn’t fill it enough, but the void was only about 1/8-1/4 =
inches.
<=
/font>
Allan M. =
Heyward, Jr.
COOK, =
HEYWARD, LEE,
HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
<=
/font>
-----Original =
Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV =
SEA 01 Sent: Friday, February =
03, 2006
3:15 PM To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33
Alright big
question is where all these boats made the same and if anyone knows of a
different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what year was =
your boat
built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been built in the =
same year
as mine.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original
Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV =
SEA 01 Sent: Friday, February =
03, 2006
7:09 To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob,
My =
boat may have
that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water getting in to =
the
bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there was a crack =
right
at the top of the keel right at where you would suppose the keel to hull =
joint
would be (however, in one of these discussions someone mentioned the =
actual
hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from =
the
bilge was seeping out. That lower hull thing seems pretty strange =
and my yard
says the keel and hull joint are right at that crack. Their =
suggestion
for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack =
and
fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if =
that
doesn't work then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat =
off
the keel by about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has =
taught
them a couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to =
the
hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the =
keel. Second,
5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the lift =
like
this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up being the =
5200.
If =
anyone has had a
similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original
Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward Sent: Thursday, February =
02, 2006
12:03 To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob=
I have a 1987 =
Frers 33
that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read =
Frank’s
response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to add, =
based on
my experience:
The construction =
of the
transverse stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the
leading edge of the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point =
of
transition into the hull. I don’t know for certain if this =
will be
true on all boats, as I understand some may not have wood in the =
stringers, but
where it exists, it creates a potential structural weak =
point. If
the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a =
leak
that will not only contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but
provides a path to the bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing =
separation
between keel and hull, but a crack in the sump which, over time and load =
can
create a tear in the hull. This is one reason a fix from the =
inside is
desirable and that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the =
keel at
the hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. =
The
other thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on =
at
least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the =
bolts and
nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel =
bolts.
Other than that, =
the boat
is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and race.
Allan M.
Heyward, Jr.
COOK,
HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
-----Original
Message----- From: =
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On
Behalf Of Stephen, Robert Sent: Wednesday, February =
01, 2006
7:02 AM To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: =
[frers-list]questions on
a purchase of a frers 33
I am
currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
1) =
Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues =
in
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
boats?
2) =
If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
this
reasonable or does the installation look like a =
morphidite?
3) =
Any questionable electrical to look for?
4) =
Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
design
or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
I live
in the Chicago area
Thanks
for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look
for”
Bob
&nbs=
p;
________________________________________________________________=
_____________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This Weber-Stephen Products =
Company e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or =
entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is =
privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable =
law. If the reader of this e-mail message is not the intended =
recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of the =
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any =
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is =
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify =
us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com and also indicate the sender's name. Thank =
you.
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C628DB.40EB5030--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Fri Feb 3 20:53:37 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:53:37 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Message-ID: <739F9600DCB1FF47AFEA52036723D46102F24E57@naeanrfkez09.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C62903.E78CA916
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kurt,
=20
Do you know if your hull looks like Allens in the keel area. My yard =
guys are looking at my boat and saying they don't think it has that =
stub.
=20
Frank Albert
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Kurt Hudson
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 15:51
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
Eclipse is hull #29 MFG 1987
=20
_____ =20
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Dan Boyd
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:39 PM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
WildThing is MFG in 1988.=20
Dan Boyd
Biogen Idec Inc
Tel: 1.617.679.2274
Fax: 1.617.679.3599
"Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01" =20
Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
02/03/2006 03:14 PM=20
Please respond to
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Message Size: 32.4 KB=20
To
=20
cc
=20
Subject
RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
=20
=20
Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if =
anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what =
year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been =
built in the same year as mine.=20
=20
Thanks,=20
Frank Albert=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis =
X CIV SEA 01
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
=20
Bob,=20
=20
My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water =
getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there =
was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel =
like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. =
That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and =
hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is =
to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with =
5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then =
next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by =
about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them a =
couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel. =
Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the =
lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up =
being the 5200.=20
=20
If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.=20
=20
Thanks,=20
Frank Albert=20
=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
=20
Bob=20
=20
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've =
read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of =
things to add, based on my experience:=20
=20
The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the =
stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the =
keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know =
for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may =
not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the =
hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute =
to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: =
the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, =
but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in =
the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the =
hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other =
thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at =
least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the =
bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel =
bolts.=20
=20
Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and =
race.=20
=20
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.=20
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.=20
804-747-4500=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
=20
I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.=20
=20
1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats? =
2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?=20
3) Any questionable electrical to look for?=20
4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.=20
=20
=20
I live in the Chicago area=20
Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =
for"=20
=20
Bob=20
=20
_________________________________________________________________________=
____
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at =
legal@weberstephen.com
and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.=20
------_=_NextPart_001_01C62903.E78CA916
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kurt,
Do you know if your hull looks like Allens in the keel area.My yard guys are looking at my =
boat and
saying they don't think it has that =
stub.
Frank Albert
-----Original Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Kurt Hudson Sent: Friday, February =
03, 2006
15:51 To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33
Eclipse is hull #29 MFG =
1987
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On
Behalf Of Dan Boyd Sent: Friday, February =
03, 2006
3:39 PM To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33<=
/p>
<=
/p>
WildThing is MFG in =
1988.
Dan Boyd
Biogen Idec Inc
Tel: 1.617.679.2274
Fax: 1.617.679.3599
=
"Albert,
FrancisXCIVSEA
01" <francis.albert@navy.mil> Sent by:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
02/03/2006 03:14 PM<=
/p>
Please respond to
frers-list@lists.frers33.com<=
/p>
Message Size: 32.4 KB
To
<frers-list@li=
sts.frers33.com><=
/p>
cc
<=
/p>
Subject
RE:
[frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33<=
/p>
<=
/p>
<=
/p>
<=
/p>
Alright big question is where =
all these
boats made the same and if anyone knows of a different version. =
Allen
your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built? Wild thing =
was
number 37 and may have been built in the same year as =
mine.<=
/p>
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On
Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers =
33<=
/p>
Bob,<=
/p>
My boat may have that new crack problem. I =
noticed last
summer water getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they =
hauled the
boat there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you =
would suppose
the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions =
someone
mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 =
inches)
and water from the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull thing =
seems
pretty strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right at =
that
crack. Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts =
and
then grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using =
alcohol.
They said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove =
the bolts
and lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their experience =
with
this process has taught them a couple of things. First most boats =
had the
keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over =
the entire
top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not want to let go.
They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours with the =
only
thing holding the keel up being the 5200.
If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to =
hear about
it. =
<=
/p>
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On
Behalf Of Allan Heyward
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers =
33<=
/p>
Bob<=
/p>
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the =
Chesapeake
Bay. I’ve read Frank’s response on your =
question 4 and only
have a couple of things to add, based on my =
experience:<=
/p>
The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a =
void
below the stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to =
which
the keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I =
don’t know
for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may =
not
have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
potential
structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the hull =
shows
separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute to =
deterioration
of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: the reason is =
that you
are not seeing separation between keel and hull, but a crack in the sump =
which,
over time and load can create a tear in the hull. This is one =
reason a
fix from the inside is desirable and that you should look carefully at =
the
leading edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is not as traumatic =
as the
problem sounds. The other thing to check is the keel bolts for =
deep
crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch =
between
stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of =
several of
the keel bolts.<=
/p>
Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a =
delight to
sail and race.<=
/p>
Allan M. Heyward, Jr. COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, =
P.C. 804-747-4500
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On
Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers =
33<=
/p>
I am currently interested in purchasing a =
frers
33. =
<=
/p>
1) =
Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues =
in
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
boats?<=
/p>
2) =
If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
this
reasonable or does the installation look like a =
morphidite?<=
/p>
3) =
Any questionable electrical to look for?<=
/p>
4) =
Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
design
or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
I live in the Chicago
area =
<=
/p>
Thanks for any advice or information =
anyone can
offer on “what to look for”
Bob
=
<=
/p>
_________________________________________________________________________=
____
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail =
message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are =
hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in =
error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com
and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C62903.E78CA916--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Fri Feb 3 20:55:17 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:55:17 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Message-ID: <739F9600DCB1FF47AFEA52036723D46102F24E58@naeanrfkez09.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C62904.233A85E6
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_002_01C62904.233A85E6"
------_=_NextPart_002_01C62904.233A85E6
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here is the picture of Allens boat.
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
Kurt,
=20
Do you know if your hull looks like Allens in the keel area. My yard =
guys are looking at my boat and saying they don't think it has that =
stub.
=20
Frank Albert
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Kurt Hudson
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 15:51
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
Eclipse is hull #29 MFG 1987
=20
_____ =20
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Dan Boyd
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:39 PM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
WildThing is MFG in 1988.=20
Dan Boyd
Biogen Idec Inc
Tel: 1.617.679.2274
Fax: 1.617.679.3599
"Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01" =20
Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
02/03/2006 03:14 PM=20
Please respond to
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Message Size: 32.4 KB=20
To
=20
cc
=20
Subject
RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
=20
=20
Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if =
anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what =
year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been =
built in the same year as mine.=20
=20
Thanks,=20
Frank Albert=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis =
X CIV SEA 01
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
=20
Bob,=20
=20
My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water =
getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there =
was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel =
like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. =
That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and =
hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is =
to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with =
5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then =
next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by =
about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them a =
couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel. =
Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the =
lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up =
being the 5200.=20
=20
If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.=20
=20
Thanks,=20
Frank Albert=20
=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
=20
Bob=20
=20
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've =
read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of =
things to add, based on my experience:=20
=20
The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the =
stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the =
keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know =
for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may =
not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the =
hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute =
to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: =
the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, =
but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in =
the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the =
hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other =
thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at =
least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the =
bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel =
bolts.=20
=20
Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and =
race.=20
=20
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.=20
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.=20
804-747-4500=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
=20
I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.=20
=20
1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats? =
2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?=20
3) Any questionable electrical to look for?=20
4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.=20
=20
=20
I live in the Chicago area=20
Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =
for"=20
=20
Bob=20
=20
_________________________________________________________________________=
____
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at =
legal@weberstephen.com
and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.=20
------_=_NextPart_002_01C62904.233A85E6
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here is the picture of Allens =
boat.
Kurt,
Do you know if your hull looks like Allens in the keel area.My yard guys are looking at my =
boat and
saying they don't think it has that =
stub.
Frank Albert
-----Original Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Kurt Hudson Sent: Friday, February =
03, 2006
15:51 To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33
Eclipse is hull #29 MFG =
1987
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On
Behalf Of Dan Boyd Sent: Friday, February =
03, 2006
3:39 PM To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33
WildThing is MFG in =
1988.
Dan Boyd
Biogen Idec Inc
Tel: 1.617.679.2274
Fax: 1.617.679.3599
=
"Albert,
FrancisXCIVSEA
01" <francis.albert@navy.mil> Sent by:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
02/03/2006 03:14 PM
Please respond to
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Message Size: 32.4 KB
To
<frers-list@li=
sts.frers33.com>
cc
Subject
RE:
[frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Alright big question is where =
all these
boats made the same and if anyone knows of a different version. =
Allen
your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built? Wild thing =
was
number 37 and may have been built in the same year as =
mine.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On
Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers =
33
Bob,
My boat may have that new crack problem. I =
noticed last
summer water getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they =
hauled the
boat there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you =
would
suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
discussions
someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 =
to 12
inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull =
thing
seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right =
at that
crack. Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts =
and
then grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using =
alcohol.
They said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove =
the bolts
and lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their experience =
with
this process has taught them a couple of things. First most boats =
had the
keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over =
the
entire top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not want to let =
go.
They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours with the =
only
thing holding the keel up being the 5200.
If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to =
hear about
it. =
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On
Behalf Of Allan Heyward
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers =
33
Bob
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the =
Chesapeake
Bay. I’ve read Frank’s response on your =
question 4 and only
have a couple of things to add, based on my =
experience:
The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a =
void
below the stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to =
which
the keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I =
don’t know
for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may =
not have
wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a potential
structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the hull =
shows
separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute to =
deterioration
of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: the reason is =
that you
are not seeing separation between keel and hull, but a crack in the sump =
which,
over time and load can create a tear in the hull. This is one =
reason a
fix from the inside is desirable and that you should look carefully at =
the
leading edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is not as traumatic =
as the
problem sounds. The other thing to check is the keel bolts for =
deep
crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch =
between
stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of =
several of
the keel bolts.
Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a =
delight to
sail and race.
Allan M. Heyward, Jr. COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, =
P.C. 804-747-4500
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On
Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers =
33
I am currently interested in purchasing a =
frers
33. =
1) =
Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues =
in
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
boats?
2) =
If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
this
reasonable or does the installation look like a =
morphidite?
3) =
Any questionable electrical to look for?
4) =
Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
design
or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
I live in the Chicago
area =
Thanks for any advice or information =
anyone can
offer on “what to look for”
Bob
=
_________________________________________________________________________=
____
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail =
message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are =
hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in =
error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com
and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
------_=_NextPart_002_01C62904.233A85E6--
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C62904.233A85E6--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Fri Feb 3 21:45:32 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Allan Heyward)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 16:45:32 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
In-Reply-To: <045a01c62906$105471b0$674da8c0@art8100>
Message-ID: <003601c6290b$2bb43fd0$6f00a8c0@ALLAN>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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My guess is, the former.
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Kelley
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 4:09 PM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: Re: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
And as part of that same question, is that transverse member completely
horizontal from settee to settee, or do some angle downward toward the
mast butt? I saw one where it was sloped downward, whereas mine is
completely horizontal. Was that other displaying damage, or was that by
design?
#55, built 1990.
Art
----- Original Message -----
From: Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:14 PM
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if
anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what
year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been
built in the same year as mine.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis
X CIV SEA 01
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob,
My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water
getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there
was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would
suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these
discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel
like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out.
That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and
hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is
to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with
5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then
next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by
about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them a
couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull
just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.
Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the
lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up
being the 5200.
If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've
read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of
things to add, based on my experience:
The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the
stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the
keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know
for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may
not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a
potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the
hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute
to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge:
the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull,
but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in
the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and
that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the
hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other
thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at
least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the
bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel
bolts.
Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and
race.
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats?
2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is
this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull
design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
I live in the Chicago area
Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look
for"
Bob
________________________________________________________________________
_____
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contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
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------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C628E1.42DE37D0
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charset="us-ascii"
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My guess is, =
the
former.
<=
/font>
Allan M. =
Heyward, Jr.
COOK, =
HEYWARD, LEE,
HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
<=
/font>
-----Original =
Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Kelley Sent: Friday, February =
03, 2006
4:09 PM To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: Re: =
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33
And as part of that same =
question,
is that transverse member completely horizontal from settee to settee, =
or do
some angle downward toward the mast butt? I saw one where it was =
sloped
downward, whereas mine is completely horizontal. Was that other
displaying damage, or was that by design?
Subject: RE:
[frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Alright big
question is where all these boats made the same and if anyone knows of a
different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what year was =
your boat
built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been built in the =
same year as
mine.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original
Message----- From:frers-list-admin@lists=
.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On
Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01 Sent: Friday, February =
03, 2006
7:09 To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob,
My =
boat may have
that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water getting in to =
the bilge
area. This fall when they hauled the boat there was a crack right =
at the top
of the keel right at where you would suppose the keel to hull joint =
would be
(however, in one of these discussions someone mentioned the actual hull =
is
lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the =
bilge was
seeping out. That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my =
yard says the
keel and hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for =
this year is
to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with =
5200,
fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work =
then next year they
will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by about 3 =
inches. Their
experience with this process has taught them a couple of things. =
First most
boats had the keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 =
spread
over the entire top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not want =
to let go.
They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours with the only =
thing
holding the keel up being the 5200.
If =
anyone has had a
similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original
Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward Sent: Thursday, February =
02, 2006
12:03 To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob=
I have a 1987 =
Frers 33
that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read =
Frank’s
response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to add, =
based on
my experience:
The construction =
of the
transverse stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the
leading edge of the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point =
of
transition into the hull. I don’t know for certain if this =
will be
true on all boats, as I understand some may not have wood in the =
stringers, but
where it exists, it creates a potential structural weak =
point. If
the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a =
leak
that will not only contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but
provides a path to the bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing =
separation
between keel and hull, but a crack in the sump which, over time and load =
can
create a tear in the hull. This is one reason a fix from the =
inside is
desirable and that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the =
keel at
the hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. =
The
other thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on =
at
least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the =
bolts and
nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel =
bolts.
Other than that, =
the boat
is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and race.
Allan M.
Heyward, Jr.
COOK,
HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
-----Original
Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert Sent: Wednesday, February =
01, 2006
7:02 AM To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: =
[frers-list]questions on
a purchase of a frers 33
I am
currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
1) =
Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues =
in
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
boats?
2) =
If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
this
reasonable or does the installation look like a =
morphidite?
3) =
Any questionable electrical to look for?
4) =
Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
design
or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
I live
in the Chicago area
Thanks
for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look
for”
Bob
&nbs=
p;
_________________=
____________________________________________________________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail =
message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are =
hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in =
error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com and also indicate the sender's name. Thank =
you.
------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C628E1.42DE37D0--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Fri Feb 3 21:32:55 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (frers-list@lists.frers33.com)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:32:55 +0000
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs
Message-ID: <020320062132.15346.43E3CC04000E2AE500003BF22206824693CE9B9B079900@comcast.net>
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15346_1139002375_0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Allen,
My yard had to drop the keel last year because of a grounding that looked like it kicked the keel off to port by about 5 degrees. Additionally I had a crack in the hull just forward of where the leading edge of the keel joins the hull. They put the hull up on jack stands and they said it normally takes about 5 hours of wailing on the top of the keel bolts with a sledge hammer to loosen it. In my case they took three wacks and it dropped right off. So much for 5200.
Frank Wittosch
Pepperke 2.0
-------------- Original message --------------
From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01)
> 2. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:08:37 -0500
> From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"
> To:
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Bob,
> =20
> My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water =
> getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there =
> was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
> suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
> discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel =
> like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. =
> That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and =
> hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is =
> to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with =
> 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then =
> next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by =
> about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them a =
> couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
> just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel. =
> Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the =
> lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up =
> being the 5200.
> =20
> If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
> =20
> Thanks,
> Frank Albert
> =20
> =20
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> =20
> Bob
> =20
> I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've =
> read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of =
> things to add, based on my experience:
> =20
> The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the =
> stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the =
> keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know =
> for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may =
> not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
> potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the =
> hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute =
> to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: =
> the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, =
> but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in =
> the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
> that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the =
> hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other =
> thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at =
> least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the =
> bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel =
> bolts.
> =20
> Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and =
> race.
> =20
> Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
> COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
> 804-747-4500
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> =20
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
> =20
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats?
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
> this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
> design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
> =20
> =20
> I live in the Chicago area
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =
> for"
> =20
> Bob
> =20
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
> ____
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at =
> legal@weberstephen.com
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
> xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
>
>
> > charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
>
>
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=
> b,
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=
> boat
> may have that new crack problem. =
> I
> noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =
> boat
> there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
> suppose
> the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions =
> someone
> mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 =
> inches)
> and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes">
> That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =
> keel and
> hull joint are right at that crack.> yes">
> Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =
> then grind
> out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =
> doesn't work
> then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel =
> by
> about 3 inches. Their =
> experience
> with this process has taught them a couple of things.> style=3D"mso-spacerun:
> yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
> just this
> way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =
> want to
> let go. They've had boats =
> in the
> lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up =
> being the
> 5200.
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=
> anyone
> has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =
> it.
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=
> anks,
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=
> ank
> Albert
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> pan
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> > yes">
>
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
> From:
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
> Sent: Thursday, February =
> 02, 2006
> 12:03
> To: =
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: =
> [frers-list]questions
> on a purchase of a frers 33
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails =
> and
> races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read Frank’s =
> response on your question
> 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =
> experience:> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the transverse =
> stringer
> leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading edge of the =
> keel
> sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition into the =
> hull.
> I don’t know for certain if this will be true on all boats, =
> as I
> understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists,
> it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =
> edge
> of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that will =
> not only
> contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to =
> the
> bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and =
> hull,
> but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in =
> the
> hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
> that you
> should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. =
> The
> fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to =
> check
> is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat =
> (mine)
> there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused
> substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is strong =
> as an
> ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =
> Jr.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =
> FEEHAN,
> P.C.> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
> windowtext'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DTahoma>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
> Message-----
> From:
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
> Sent: Wednesday, February =
> 01, 2006
> 7:02 AM
> To: =
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: =
> [frers-list]questions on
> a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color:
> black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> > color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I am
> currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> color:black'>1)> style=3D'font-size:
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues =
> in
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
> boats?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> color:black'>2)> style=3D'font-size:
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
> this
> reasonable or does the installation look like a =
> morphidite?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> color:black'>3)> style=3D'font-size:
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> color:black'>4)> style=3D'font-size:
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
> design
> or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I live
> in the Chicago area> style=3D'color:black;
> mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks
> for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look =
> for”> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Bob> >> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs=
> p;
> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
> size=3D2>________________________________________________________________=
> _____________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products =
> Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or =
> entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is =
> privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable =
> law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended =
> recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the =
> message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any =
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is =
> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify =
> us immediately by e-mail at > href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
> color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank =
> you.
>
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94--
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:14:30 -0500
> From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"
> To:
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if =
> anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what =
> year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been =
> built in the same year as mine.
> =20
> Thanks,
> Frank Albert
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis =
> X CIV SEA 01
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> =20
> Bob,
> =20
> My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water =
> getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there =
> was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
> suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
> discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel =
> like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. =
> That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and =
> hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is =
> to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with =
> 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then =
> next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by =
> about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them a =
> couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
> just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel. =
> Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the =
> lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up =
> being the 5200.
> =20
> If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
> =20
> Thanks,
> Frank Albert
> =20
> =20
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> =20
> Bob
> =20
> I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've =
> read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of =
> things to add, based on my experience:
> =20
> The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the =
> stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the =
> keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know =
> for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may =
> not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
> potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the =
> hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute =
> to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: =
> the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, =
> but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in =
> the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
> that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the =
> hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other =
> thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at =
> least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the =
> bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel =
> bolts.
> =20
> Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and =
> race.
> =20
> Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
> COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
> 804-747-4500
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> =20
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
> =20
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats?
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
> this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
> design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
> =20
> =20
> I live in the Chicago area
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =
> for"
> =20
> Bob
> =20
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
> ____
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at =
> legal@weberstephen.com
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
> xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
>
>
> > charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
>
>
>
>
> color=3D"#993366"
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
> Arial'>Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and =
> if
> anyone knows of a different version.> yes">
> Allen your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built?> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Wild thing was number 37 and =
> may have
> been built in the same year as mine.
>
>
> color=3D"#993366"
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
> Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>
>
> color=3D"#993366"
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
> Arial'>Thanks,
>
>
> color=3D"#993366"
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
> Arial'>Frank Albert
>
>
> color=3D"#993366"
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
> Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
> From:
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV =
> SEA 01
> Sent: Friday, February =
> 03, 2006
> 7:09
> To: =
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: =
> [frers-list]questions
> on a purchase of a frers 33
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=
> b,
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=
> boat
> may have that new crack problem. =
> I
> noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =
> boat
> there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
> suppose
> the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions =
> someone
> mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 =
> inches)
> and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes">
> That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =
> keel and
> hull joint are right at that crack.> yes">
> Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =
> then
> grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using =
> alcohol.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =
> doesn't work
> then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel =
> by
> about 3 inches. Their =
> experience
> with this process has taught them a couple of things.> style=3D"mso-spacerun:
> yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
> just this
> way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =
> want to
> let go. They've had boats =
> in the
> lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up =
> being the
> 5200.
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=
> anyone
> has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =
> it.
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=
> anks,
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=
> ank
> Albert
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> pan
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
>
>
>
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
> From: =
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On
> Behalf Of Allan Heyward
> Sent: Thursday, February =
> 02, 2006
> 12:03
> To: =
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: =
> [frers-list]questions
> on a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>> !supportEmptyParas]> > color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails =
> and
> races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read Frank’s =
> response on your question
> 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =
> experience:> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the transverse
> stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading =
> edge of
> the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition =
> into the
> hull. I don’t know for certain if this will be true on all =
> boats, as I
> understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists,
> it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =
> edge
> of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that will =
> not only
> contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to =
> the
> bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and =
> hull,
> but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in =
> the
> hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
> that you
> should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. =
> The
> fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to =
> check
> is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat =
> (mine)
> there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused
> substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is strong =
> as an
> ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =
> Jr.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =
> FEEHAN,
> P.C.> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
> windowtext'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DTahoma>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
> Message-----
> From:
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
> Sent: Wednesday, February =
> 01, 2006
> 7:02 AM
> To: =
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: =
> [frers-list]questions on
> a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color:
> black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> > color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I am
> currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> color:black'>1)> style=3D'font-size:
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues =
> in
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
> boats?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> color:black'>2)> style=3D'font-size:
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
> this reasonable
> or does the installation look like a morphidite?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> color:black'>3)> style=3D'font-size:
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> color:black'>4)> style=3D'font-size:
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
> design
> or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I live
> in the Chicago area> style=3D'color:black;
> mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks
> for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look =
> for”> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Bob> >> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs=
> p;
> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> /p>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
> size=3D2>________________________________________________________________=
> _____________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products =
> Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or =
> entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is =
> privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable =
> law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended =
> recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the =
> message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any =
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is =
> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify =
> us immediately by e-mail at > href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
> color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank =
> you.
>
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6--
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
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Allen,
My yard had to drop the keel last year because of a grounding that looked like it kicked the keel off to port by about 5 degrees. Additionally I had a crack in the hull just forward of where the leading edge of the keel joins the hull. They put the hull up on jack stands and they said it normally takes about 5 hours of wailing on the top of the keel bolts with a sledge hammer to loosen it. In my case they took three wacks and it dropped right off. So much for 5200.
Frank Wittosch
Pepperke 2.0
-------------- Original message -------------- From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to > frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01) > 2. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:08:37 -0500 > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01" > To: > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Bob, > =20 > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water = > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there = > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would = > suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these = > discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel = > like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. = > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and = > hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is = > to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with = > 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then = > next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by = > about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them a = > couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull = > just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel. = > Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the = > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up = > being the 5200. > =20 > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it. > =20 > Thanks, > Frank Albert > =20 > =20 > =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com = > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03 > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > =20 > Bob > =20 > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've = > read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of = > things to add, based on my experience: > =20 > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the = > stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the = > keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know = > for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may = > not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a = > potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the = > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute = > to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: = > the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, = > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in = > the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and = > that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the = > hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other = > thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at = > least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the = > bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel = > bolts. > =20 > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and = > race. > =20 > Allan M. Heyward, Jr. > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C. > 804-747-4500 > =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com = > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > =20 > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33. > =20 > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in = > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats? > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is = > this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite? > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for? > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull = > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding. > =20 > =20 > I live in the Chicago area > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look = > for" > =20 > Bob > =20 > > _________________________________________________________________________= > ____ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > please notify us immediately by e-mail at = > legal@weberstephen.com > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> > > >
> charset=3Diso-8859-1"> > > >
>
>
> > >
> > > > style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'> > >
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My= > boat > may have that new crack problem. = > I > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the = > boat > there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would = > suppose > the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions = > someone > mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 = > inches) > and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes"> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the = > keel and > hull joint are right at that crack.> yes"> > Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and = > then grind > out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that = > doesn't work > then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel = > by > about 3 inches.Their = > experience > with this process has taught them a couple of things.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: > yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull = > just this > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not = > want to > let go.They've had boats = > in the > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up = > being the > 5200.
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If= > anyone > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about = > it.
> style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails = > and > races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read Frank’s = > response on your question > 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my = > experience:> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > /p> > >
> style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the transverse = > stringer > leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading edge of the = > keel > sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition into the = > hull. > I don’t know for certain if this will be true on all boats, = > as I > understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, > it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading = > edge > of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that will = > not only > contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to = > the > bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and = > hull, > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in = > the > hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and = > that you > should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. = > The > fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to = > check > is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat = > (mine) > there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused > substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > /p> > >
> style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is strong = > as an > ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > /p> > >
> color=3Dblack > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I am > currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > /p> > >
> style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > color:black'>1)> style=3D'font-size: > 7.0pt;color:black'> = > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues = > in > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these = > boats?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > /p> > >
> style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > color:black'>2)> style=3D'font-size: > 7.0pt;color:black'> = > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is = > this > reasonable or does the installation look like a = > morphidite?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > /p> > >
> style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > color:black'>4)> style=3D'font-size: > 7.0pt;color:black'> = > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull = > design > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > /p> > >
> color=3Dblack > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I live > in the Chicago area> style=3D'color:black; > mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
> >
> color=3Dblack > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks > for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look = > for”> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > /p> > >
> face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = > size=3D2>________________________________________________________________= > _____________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This Weber-Stephen Products = > Company e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or = > entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is = > privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable = > law. If the reader of this e-mail message is not the intended = > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of the = > message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any = > dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is = > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify = > us immediately by e-mail at > href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D2>legal@weberstephen.com > color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank = > you.
> > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94-- > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:14:30 -0500 > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01" > To: > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if = > anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what = > year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been = > built in the same year as mine. > =20 > Thanks, > Frank Albert > =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com = > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis = > X CIV SEA 01 > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09 > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > =20 > Bob, > =20 > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water = > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there = > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would = > suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these = > discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel = > like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. = > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and = > hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is = > to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with = > 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then = > next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by = > about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them a = > couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull = > just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel. = > Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the = > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up = > being the 5200. > =20 > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it. > =20 > Thanks, > Frank Albert > =20 > =20 > =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com = > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03 > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > =20 > Bob > =20 > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've = > read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of = > things to add, based on my experience: > =20 > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the = > stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the = > keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know = > for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may = > not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a = > potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the = > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute = > to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: = > the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, = > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in = > the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and = > that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the = > hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other = > thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at = > least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the = > bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel = > bolts. > =20 > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and = > race. > =20 > Allan M. Heyward, Jr. > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C. > 804-747-4500 > =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com = > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > =20 > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33. > =20 > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in = > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats? > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is = > this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite? > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for? > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull = > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding. > =20 > =20 > I live in the Chicago area > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look = > for" > =20 > Bob > =20 > > _________________________________________________________________________= > ____ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > please notify us immediately by e-mail at = > legal@weberstephen.com > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> > > >
> charset=3Diso-8859-1"> > > >
>
>
> > >
> > > > style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'> > >
> >
> color=3D"#993366" > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family: > Arial'>Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and = > if > anyone knows of a different version.> yes"> > Allen your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built?> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Wild thing was number 37 and = > may have > been built in the same year as mine.
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My= > boat > may have that new crack problem. = > I > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the = > boat > there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would = > suppose > the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions = > someone > mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 = > inches) > and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes"> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the = > keel and > hull joint are right at that crack.> yes"> > Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and = > then > grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using = > alcohol.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that = > doesn't work > then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel = > by > about 3 inches.Their = > experience > with this process has taught them a couple of things.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: > yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull = > just this > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not = > want to > let go.They've had boats = > in the > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up = > being the > 5200.
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If= > anyone > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about = > it.
> style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails = > and > races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read Frank’s = > response on your question > 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my = > experience:> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > /p> > >
> style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the transverse > stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading = > edge of > the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition = > into the > hull. I don’t know for certain if this will be true on all = > boats, as I > understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, > it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading = > edge > of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that will = > not only > contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to = > the > bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and = > hull, > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in = > the > hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and = > that you > should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. = > The > fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to = > check > is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat = > (mine) > there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused > substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > /p> > >
> style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is strong = > as an > ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > /p> > >
> color=3Dblack > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I am > currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > /p> > >
> style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > color:black'>1)> style=3D'font-size: > 7.0pt;color:black'> = > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues = > in > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these = > boats?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > /p> > >
> style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > color:black'>2)> style=3D'font-size: > 7.0pt;color:black'> = > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is = > this reasonable > or does the installation look like a morphidite?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > /p> > >
> style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > color:black'>4)> style=3D'font-size: > 7.0pt;color:black'> = > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull = > design > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > /p> > >
> color=3Dblack > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I live > in the Chicago area> style=3D'color:black; > mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
> >
> color=3Dblack > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks > for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look = > for”> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > /p> > >
> face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = > size=3D2>________________________________________________________________= > _____________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This Weber-Stephen Products = > Company e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or = > entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is = > privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable = > law. If the reader of this e-mail message is not the intended = > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of the = > message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any = > dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is = > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify = > us immediately by e-mail at > href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D2>legal@weberstephen.com > color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank = > you.
> > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6-- > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > frers-list mailing list > frers-list@lists.frers33.com > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list > > > End of frers-list Digest
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15346_1139002375_0--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Fri Feb 3 21:58:58 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Allan Heyward)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 16:58:58 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
In-Reply-To: <045a01c62906$105471b0$674da8c0@art8100>
Message-ID: <003d01c6290d$0dec9540$6f00a8c0@ALLAN>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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My apologies to all. I said transverse, but I meant the longitudinal
that starts up by the Vee berths and butts into the transverse just aft
of the mast. The void is between the bottom of the longitudinal (which
is molded into the pan and glassed closed before the pan is set) and the
chopped up fill in the front of the keel root/sump.
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Kelley
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 4:09 PM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: Re: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
And as part of that same question, is that transverse member completely
horizontal from settee to settee, or do some angle downward toward the
mast butt? I saw one where it was sloped downward, whereas mine is
completely horizontal. Was that other displaying damage, or was that by
design?
#55, built 1990.
Art
----- Original Message -----
From: Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:14 PM
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if
anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what
year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been
built in the same year as mine.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis
X CIV SEA 01
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob,
My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water
getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there
was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would
suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these
discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel
like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out.
That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and
hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is
to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with
5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then
next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by
about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them a
couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull
just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.
Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the
lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up
being the 5200.
If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've
read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of
things to add, based on my experience:
The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the
stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the
keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know
for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may
not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a
potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the
hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute
to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge:
the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull,
but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in
the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and
that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the
hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other
thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at
least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the
bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel
bolts.
Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and
race.
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats?
2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is
this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull
design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
I live in the Chicago area
Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look
for"
Bob
________________________________________________________________________
_____
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
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------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C628E3.25168D40
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charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My apologies =
to all.
I said transverse, but I meant the longitudinal that starts up by the =
Vee
berths and butts into the transverse just aft of the mast. The =
void is
between the bottom of the longitudinal (which is molded into the pan and =
glassed
closed before the pan is set) and the chopped up fill in the front of =
the keel
root/sump.
<=
/font>
Allan M. =
Heyward, Jr.
COOK, =
HEYWARD, LEE,
HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
<=
/font>
-----Original =
Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Kelley Sent: Friday, February =
03, 2006
4:09 PM To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: Re: =
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33
And as part of that same =
question,
is that transverse member completely horizontal from settee to settee, =
or do
some angle downward toward the mast butt? I saw one where it was =
sloped
downward, whereas mine is completely horizontal. Was that other
displaying damage, or was that by design?
Subject: RE:
[frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Alright big
question is where all these boats made the same and if anyone knows of a
different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what year was =
your boat
built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been built in the =
same year
as mine.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original
Message----- From:frers-list-admin@lists=
.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On
Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01 Sent: Friday, February =
03, 2006
7:09 To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob,
My =
boat may have
that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water getting in to =
the
bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there was a crack =
right
at the top of the keel right at where you would suppose the keel to hull =
joint
would be (however, in one of these discussions someone mentioned the =
actual
hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from =
the
bilge was seeping out. That lower hull thing seems pretty strange =
and my
yard says the keel and hull joint are right at that crack. Their
suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out =
the
crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They =
said if
that doesn't work then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the =
boat
off the keel by about 3 inches. Their experience with this process =
has
taught them a couple of things. First most boats had the keels =
joined to
the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of =
the
keel. Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've =
had
boats in the lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding =
the keel
up being the 5200.
If =
anyone has had a
similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original
Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward Sent: Thursday, February =
02, 2006
12:03 To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob=
I have a 1987 =
Frers 33
that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read =
Frank’s
response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to add, =
based on
my experience:
The construction =
of the
transverse stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the
leading edge of the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point =
of
transition into the hull. I don’t know for certain if this =
will be
true on all boats, as I understand some may not have wood in the =
stringers, but
where it exists, it creates a potential structural weak =
point. If
the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a =
leak
that will not only contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but
provides a path to the bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing =
separation
between keel and hull, but a crack in the sump which, over time and load =
can
create a tear in the hull. This is one reason a fix from the =
inside is
desirable and that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the =
keel at
the hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. =
The
other thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on =
at
least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the =
bolts and
nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel =
bolts.
Other than that, =
the boat
is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and race.
Allan M.
Heyward, Jr.
COOK,
HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
-----Original
Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert Sent: Wednesday, February =
01, 2006
7:02 AM To: =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: =
[frers-list]questions on
a purchase of a frers 33
I am
currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
1) =
Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues =
in
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
boats?
2) =
If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
this
reasonable or does the installation look like a =
morphidite?
3) =
Any questionable electrical to look for?
4) =
Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
design
or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
I live
in the Chicago area
Thanks
for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look
for”
Bob
&nbs=
p;
_________________=
____________________________________________________________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail =
message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are =
hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in =
error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com and also indicate the sender's name. Thank =
you.
------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C628E3.25168D40--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Fri Feb 3 21:40:01 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (frers-list@lists.frers33.com)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:40:01 +0000
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #167 - 2 msgs
Message-ID: <020320062140.10421.43E3CDAF000A9902000028B52207020853CE9B9B079900@comcast.net>
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_10421_1139002801_0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
All,
My boat was mfg in 88 and I think its hull # 44. I also had cracks on both ends of the transverse stringer, but I attribute it to the softness in the mast step and migration of water into the keel root. Prior to having mine fixed, we were sailing in a gentle 10 kt breeze with very light chop and I was lying on the side deck abeam of the mast content to let the others steer. It was then that I noticed that the mast was pumping above the top spreader to the mast head every time we hit the chop. I checked play in the shrouds, forestay and backstay and everything seemed normal. I think what was really happening is that the hull was flexing and that may have also caused those cracks in that stringer. By the way-that stringer is hollw so it doesn't offer much structural support to start with. CM had to keep the weight down one way or another.
Frank Wittosch
Peppreke 2.0
-------------- Original message --------------
From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to
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>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Dan Boyd)
> 2. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Kurt Hudson)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> From: Dan Boyd
> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:38:39 -0500
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> This is a multipart message in MIME format.
> --=_alternative 007167698525710A_=
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> WildThing is MFG in 1988.
>
> Dan Boyd
> Biogen Idec Inc
> Tel: 1.617.679.2274
> Fax: 1.617.679.3599
>
>
>
>
> "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01" =20
> Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
> 02/03/2006 03:14 PM
> Please respond to
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Message Size: 32.4 KB
>
> To
>
> cc
>
> Subject
> RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if anyone=20
> knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what year was =
>
> your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been built in the=20
> same year as mine.
> =20
> Thanks,
> Frank Albert
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X=20
> CIV SEA 01
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> =20
> Bob,
> =20
> My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water=20
> getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there=20
> was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would suppose=20
> the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions=20
> someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to =
>
> 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull=20
> thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are=20
> right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the=20
> keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it=20
> using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then next year they will=20
> remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their=20
> experience with this process has taught them a couple of things. First=20
> most boats had the keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of=20
> 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not =
>
> want to let go. They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours=20
> with the only thing holding the keel up being the 5200.
> =20
> If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
> =20
> Thanks,
> Frank Albert
> =20
> =20
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> =20
> Bob
> =20
> I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I?ve=20
> read Frank?s response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things=20
> to add, based on my experience:
> =20
> The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the=20
> stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the=20
> keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don?t know for =
>
> certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may not=20
> have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a potential=20
> structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows=20
> separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute to=20
> deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: the=20
> reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, but a=20
> crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in the hull. =
>
> This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and that you should =
>
> look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is=20
> not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to check is the=20
> keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine)=20
> there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused=20
> substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.
> =20
> Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and=20
> race.
> =20
> Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
> COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
> 804-747-4500
> =20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> =20
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
> =20
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in=20
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats?
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is this=20
> reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull=20
> design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
> =20
> =20
> I live in the Chicago area
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on ?what to look=20
> for?
> =20
> Bob
> =20
>
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
> =5F=5F
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
>
> --=_alternative 007167698525710A_=
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
>
WildThing is MFG in 1988.
>
>
Dan Boyd
> Biogen Idec Inc
> Tel: 1.617.679.2274
> Fax: 1.617.679.3599
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Albert, Francis=
> X
> CIV SEA 01"
>
Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frer=
> s33.com
>
02/03/2006 03:14 PM
>
>
>
>
Please respond to
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
Message Size: 32.4 KB
>
>
>
>
>
To
> =
>
>
>
>
cc
>
>
>
>
Subject
> RE: [frers-list]questions on a purch=
> ase
> of a frers 33
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Alright big question is w=
> here
> all these boats made the same and if anyone knows of a different version.
> Allen your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built? Wi=
> ld
> thing was number 37 and may have been built in the same year as mine.
>
>
Thanks,
>
Frank Albert
>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists=
> .frers33.com]On
> Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>
>
Bob,
>
>
My boat may have that new =
> crack
> problem. I noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.
> This fall when they hauled the boat there was a crack right at the
> top of the keel right at where you would suppose the keel to hull joint
> would be (however, in one of these discussions someone mentioned the actual
> hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from
> the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull thing seems pretty strange
> and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right at that crack. The=
> ir
> suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out
> the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They
> said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove the bolts and
> lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their experience with
> this process has taught them a couple of things. First most boats
> had the keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread
> over the entire top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not want
> to let go. They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours
> with the only thing holding the keel up being the 5200.
>
>
If anyone has had a similar
> experience I'd like to hear about it.
>
>
Thanks,
>
Frank Albert
>
>
>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists=
> .frers33.com]On
> Behalf Of Allan Heyward
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>
>
Bob
>
>
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that
> sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read Frank’s =
> response
> on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my
> experience:
>
>
The construction of the tr=
> ansverse
> stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading edge
> of the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition
> into the hull. I don’t know for certain if this will be true on
> all boats, as I understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but
> where it exists, it creates a potential structural weak point. =
> If
> the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get
> a leak that will not only contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer,
> but provides a path to the bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing
> separation between keel and hull, but a crack in the sump which, over time
> and load can create a tear in the hull. This is one reason a fix
> from the inside is desirable and that you should look carefully at the
> leading edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is not as traumatic
> as the problem sounds. The other thing to check is the keel bolts
> for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there was a
> mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial
> erosion of several of the keel bolts.
>
>
Other than that, the boat =
> is
> strong as an ox and a delight to sail and race.
>
>
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.> nt>
>
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER
> & FEEHAN, P.C.
>
804-747-4500
>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists=
> .frers33.com]
> On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>
>
I am currently interested in purchasing a
> frers 33.
>
>
1) &nb=
> sp;
> Can anyone update me as to where any s=
> pecific
> coring issues in hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most
> of these boats?
>
2) &nb=
> sp;
> If I wanted to change out the wheel st=
> eering
> to a tiller is this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphid=
> ite?
>
3) &nb=
> sp;
> Any questionable electrical to look fo=
> r?
>
4) &nb=
> sp;
> Any concern on the design as it relates
> to the keel to hull design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> ont>
>
>
>
I live in the Chicago area
>
Thanks for any advice or information anyone
> can offer on “what to look for”
>
>
Bob
>
>
>
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
> =5F=5F
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at > erstephen.com>legal@weberstep=
> hen.com
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
>
> --=_alternative 007167698525710A_=--
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> From: "Kurt Hudson"
> To:
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:51:23 -0500
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C628D9.AF427420
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Eclipse is hull #29 MFG 1987
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Dan Boyd
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:39 PM
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>
>
>
>
> WildThing is MFG in 1988.
>
> Dan Boyd
> Biogen Idec Inc
> Tel: 1.617.679.2274
> Fax: 1.617.679.3599
>
>
>
>
>
> "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"
> Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
>
> 02/03/2006 03:14 PM
>
>
> Please respond to
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> Message Size: 32.4 KB
>
>
> To
>
>
>
>
> cc
>
>
>
>
> Subject
>
> RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if anyone
> knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what year was
> your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been built in the
> same year as mine.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Frank Albert
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X
> CIV SEA 01
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>
>
>
> Bob,
>
>
>
> My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water
> getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there was
> a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would suppose the
> keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions someone
> mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12
> inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull thing
> seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right at
> that crack. Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and
> then grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol.
> They said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove the bolts and
> lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their experience with this
> process has taught them a couple of things. First most boats had the keels
> joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire
> top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had
> boats in the lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the
> keel up being the 5200.
>
>
>
> If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Frank Albert
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've
> read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to
> add, based on my experience:
>
>
>
> The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the stringer
> that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the keel is
> bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know for certain
> if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may not have wood in
> the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a potential structural weak
> point. If the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows separation you
> will get a leak that will not only contribute to deterioration of the wood
> stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: the reason is that you are not
> seeing separation between keel and hull, but a crack in the sump which, over
> time and load can create a tear in the hull. This is one reason a fix from
> the inside is desirable and that you should look carefully at the leading
> edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem
> sounds. The other thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice
> corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between
> stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several
> of the keel bolts.
>
>
>
> Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and race.
>
>
>
> Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
> COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
> 804-747-4500
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>
>
>
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
>
>
>
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in hull
> or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats?
>
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is this
> reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
>
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
>
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull design
> or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
>
>
>
>
>
> I live in the Chicago area
>
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look for"
>
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> _
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at
> legal@weberstephen.com
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C628D9.AF427420
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> > xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" =
> xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
> xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" =
> xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
>
>
> > charset=3Dus-ascii">
>
>
>
> > namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" =
> name=3D"PlaceType"/>
> > namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
> name=3D"PlaceName"/>
> > namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
> name=3D"City"/>
> > namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
> name=3D"place"/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Eclipse is hull #29 MFG =
> 1987
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>
>
>
>
>
> size=3D3
> face=3D"Times New Roman">
>
>
>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:> size=3D2
> face=3DTahoma>
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Dan Boyd
> Sent: Friday, February =
> 03, 2006
> 3:39 PM
> To: =
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: =
> [frers-list]questions
> on a purchase of a frers 33
>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 12.0pt'>
>
>
> face=3D"Times New Roman">
> > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:sans-serif'>WildThing is MFG in 1988.
>
> > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Dan
> Boyd
> Biogen Idec Inc
> Tel: 1.617.679.2274
> Fax: 1.617.679.3599
>
>
>
>
> > style=3D'width:100.0%'>
>
> > .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;font-weight:bold'>"Albert, =
> > w:st=3D"on">Francis =
> > w:st=3D"on">X > w:st=3D"on">CIV > w:st=3D"on">SEA 01"
> > face=3Dsans-serif>> style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>
> > style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Sent
> by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
>
> style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
> sans-serif'>02/03/2006 03:14 PM
>
>
> > style=3D'background:white;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
>
> style=3D'text-align:center'>> face=3Dsans-serif>> style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Please
> respond to
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
> sans-serif'>Message Size: 32.4 =
> KB
>
>
> > .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
> > width=3D"100%"
> style=3D'width:100.0%'>
>
>
>
> size=3D1
> face=3Dsans-serif>> style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>To> :p>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> =
> 7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>=
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> size=3D1
> face=3Dsans-serif>> style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>cc> :p>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
>
>
>
>
>
> size=3D1
> face=3Dsans-serif>> style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Subject> p>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>RE: [frers-list]questions on a =
> purchase of a
> frers 33
>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
>
>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:
> 12.0pt'>
>
>
> > style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>Alright big question is where =
> all these
> boats made the same and if anyone knows of a different version. =
> Allen
> your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built? Wild thing =
> was
> number 37 and may have been built in the same year as =
> mine.
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>Thanks,
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>Frank Albert =
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original
> Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On
> Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01> style=3D'font-weight:
> bold'>
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09> style=3D'font-weight:
> bold'>
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com> style=3D'font-weight:bold'>
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers =
> 33
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>Bob,
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>My boat may have that new crack problem. I =
> noticed last
> summer water getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they =
> hauled the
> boat there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you =
> would
> suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
> discussions
> someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 =
> to 12
> inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull =
> thing
> seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right =
> at that
> crack. Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts =
> and
> then grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using =
> alcohol.
> They said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove =
> the bolts
> and lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their experience =
> with
> this process has taught them a couple of things. First most boats =
> had the
> keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over =
> the
> entire top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not want to let =
> go.
> They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours with the =
> only
> thing holding the keel up being the 5200.
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to =
> hear about
> it.
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>Thanks,
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>Frank Albert
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original
> Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On
> Behalf Of Allan Heyward> style=3D'font-weight:bold'>
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03> style=3D'font-weight:
> bold'>
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com> style=3D'font-weight:bold'>
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers =
> 33
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>Bob
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the =
> > w:st=3D"on">Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read =
> Frank’s
> response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to add, =
> based on
> my experience:
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a =
> void
> below the stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to =
> which
> the keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I
> don’t know for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I =
> understand
> some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it =
> creates
> a potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel =
> at the
> hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute =
> to
> deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: =
> the
> reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, but =
> a crack
> in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in the hull. =
> This
> is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and that you should =
> look
> carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is =
> not as
> traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to check is the =
> keel
> bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there =
> was a
> mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial
> erosion of several of the keel bolts.
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a =
> delight to
> sail and race.
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>
> > style=3D'font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M.
> Heyward, Jr.
> > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, =
> P.C.
> > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:navy'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original
> Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On
> Behalf Of Stephen, Robert> style=3D'font-weight:bold'>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM> style=3D'font-weight:
> bold'>
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com> style=3D'font-weight:bold'>
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers =
> 33
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I
> am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33. =
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>1)> size=3D1> =
> > size=3D2 face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can anyone
> update me as to where any specific coring issues in hull or the deck =
> area that
> might be consistent with most of these boats? =
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>2)> size=3D1> =
> > size=3D2 face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If I wanted
> to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is this reasonable or does =
> the
> installation look like a morphidite?
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>3)> size=3D1> =
> > size=3D2 face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any
> questionable electrical to look for?
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>4)> size=3D1> =
> > size=3D2 face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any concern
> on the design as it relates to the keel to hull design or attachment. =
> Separate
> from a bad grounding.
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I
> live in the > w:st=3D"on">Chicago
> area
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Thanks
> for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look
> for”
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bob
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial;color:blue'>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
> ____
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail =
> message
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are =
> hereby
> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in =
> error,
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at > href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>legal@weberstephen.com> >> size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> color:blue'>
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. =
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C628D9.AF427420--
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> frers-list mailing list
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>
>
> End of frers-list Digest
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_10421_1139002801_0
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
All,
My boat was mfg in 88 and I think its hull # 44. I also had cracks on both ends of the transverse stringer, but I attribute it to the softness in the mast step and migration of water into the keel root. Prior to having mine fixed, we were sailing in a gentle 10 kt breeze with very light chop and I was lying on the side deck abeam of the mast content to let the others steer. It was then that I noticed that the mast was pumping above the top spreader to the mast head every time we hit the chop. I checked play in the shrouds, forestay and backstay and everything seemed normal. I think what was really happening is that the hull was flexing and that may have also caused those cracks in that stringer. By the way-that stringer is hollw so it doesn't offer much structural support to start with. CM had to keep the weight down one way or another.
Frank Wittosch
Peppreke 2.0
-------------- Original message -------------- From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to > frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Dan Boyd) > 2. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Kurt Hudson) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > From: Dan Boyd > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:38:39 -0500 > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > This is a multipart message in MIME format. > --=_alternative 007167698525710A_= > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > WildThing is MFG in 1988. > > Dan Boyd > Biogen Idec Inc > Tel: 1.617.679.2274 > Fax: 1.617.679.3599 > > > > > "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01" =20 > Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com > 02/03/2006 03:14 PM > Please respond to > frers-list@lists.frers33.com > Message Size: 32.4 KB > > To > > cc > > Subject > RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > > > > > > > Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if anyone=20 > knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what year was = > > your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been built in the=20 > same year as mine. > =20 > Thanks, > Frank Albert > =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20 > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X=20 > CIV SEA 01 > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09 > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > =20 > Bob, > =20 > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water=20 > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there=20 > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would suppose=20 > the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions=20 > someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to = > > 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull=20 > thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are=20 > right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the=20 > keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it=20 > using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then next year they will=20 > remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their=20 > experience with this process has taught them a couple of things. First=20 > most boats had the keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of=20 > 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not = > > want to let go. They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours=20 > with the only thing holding the keel up being the 5200. > =20 > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it. > =20 > Thanks, > Frank Albert > =20 > =20 > =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20 > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03 > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > =20 > Bob > =20 > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I?ve=20 > read Frank?s response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things=20 > to add, based on my experience: > =20 > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the=20 > stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the=20 > keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don?t know for = > > certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may not=20 > have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a potential=20 > structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows=20 > separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute to=20 > deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: the=20 > reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, but a=20 > crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in the hull. = > > This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and that you should = > > look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is=20 > not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to check is the=20 > keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine)=20 > there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused=20 > substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts. > =20 > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and=20 > race. > =20 > Allan M. Heyward, Jr. > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C. > 804-747-4500 > =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20 > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > =20 > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33. > =20 > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in=20 > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats? > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is this=20 > reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite? > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for? > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull=20 > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding. > =20 > =20 > I live in the Chicago area > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on ?what to look=20 > for? > =20 > Bob > =20 > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= > =5F=5F > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. > > --=_alternative 007167698525710A_= > Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > WildThing is MFG in 1988. >
> Dan Boyd
> Biogen Idec Inc
> Tel: 1.617.679.2274
> Fax: 1.617.679.3599
> >
>
>
>
>
>
"Albert, Francis= > X > CIV SEA 01" <francis.albert@navy.mil> > Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frer= > s33.com >
02/03/2006 03:14 PM >
>
>
>
Please respond to
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
Message Size: 32.4 KB >
>
>
>
>
To
>
<frers-list@lists.frers33.com>= > >
>
>
cc
>
>
>
>
Subject
>
RE: [frers-list]questions on a purch= > ase > of a frers 33
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Alright big question is w= > here > all these boats made the same and if anyone knows of a different version. > Allen your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built? Wi= > ld > thing was number 37 and may have been built in the same year as mine. >
>
Thanks, >
Frank Albert >
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists= > .frers33.com]On > Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 >
>
Bob, >
>
My boat may have that new = > crack > problem. I noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area. > This fall when they hauled the boat there was a crack right at the > top of the keel right at where you would suppose the keel to hull joint > would be (however, in one of these discussions someone mentioned the actual > hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from > the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull thing seems pretty strange > and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right at that crack. The= > ir > suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out > the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They > said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove the bolts and > lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their experience with > this process has taught them a couple of things. First most boats > had the keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread > over the entire top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not want > to let go. They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours > with the only thing holding the keel up being the 5200. >
>
If anyone has had a similar > experience I'd like to hear about it. >
>
Thanks, >
Frank Albert >
>
>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists= > .frers33.com]On > Behalf Of Allan Heyward
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 >
>
Bob >
>
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that > sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read Frank’s = > response > on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my > experience: >
>
The construction of the tr= > ansverse > stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading edge > of the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition > into the hull. I don’t know for certain if this will be true on > all boats, as I understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but > where it exists, it creates a potential structural weak point. = > If > the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get > a leak that will not only contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, > but provides a path to the bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing > separation between keel and hull, but a crack in the sump which, over time > and load can create a tear in the hull. This is one reason a fix > from the inside is desirable and that you should look carefully at the > leading edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is not as traumatic > as the problem sounds. The other thing to check is the keel bolts > for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there was a > mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial > erosion of several of the keel bolts. >
>
Other than that, the boat = > is > strong as an ox and a delight to sail and race. >
> Allan M. Heyward, Jr.> nt> > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER > & FEEHAN, P.C. > 804-747-4500 >
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists= > .frers33.com] > On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 >
>
I am currently interested in purchasing a > frers 33. >
>
1) &nb= > sp; > Can anyone update me as to where any s= > pecific > coring issues in hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most > of these boats? >
2) &nb= > sp; > If I wanted to change out the wheel st= > eering > to a tiller is this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphid= > ite? >
3) &nb= > sp; > Any questionable electrical to look fo= > r? >
4) &nb= > sp; > Any concern on the design as it relates > to the keel to hull design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> ont> >
>
>
I live in the Chicago area >
Thanks for any advice or information anyone > can offer on “what to look for” >
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. >
> --=_alternative 007167698525710A_=-- > > --__--__-- > > Message: 2 > From: "Kurt Hudson" > To: > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:51:23 -0500 > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C628D9.AF427420 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Eclipse is hull #29 MFG 1987 > > > > _____ > > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Dan Boyd > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:39 PM > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > > > > > WildThing is MFG in 1988. > > Dan Boyd > Biogen Idec Inc > Tel: 1.617.679.2274 > Fax: 1.617.679.3599 > > > > > > "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01" > Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com > > 02/03/2006 03:14 PM > > > Please respond to > frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > Message Size: 32.4 KB > > > To > > > > > cc > > > > > Subject > > RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > > > > > > > > > > > > Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if anyone > knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what year was > your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been built in the > same year as mine. > > > > Thanks, > > Frank Albert > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X > CIV SEA 01 > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09 > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > > > > Bob, > > > > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there was > a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would suppose the > keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions someone > mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 > inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull thing > seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right at > that crack. Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and > then grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol. > They said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove the bolts and > lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their experience with this > process has taught them a couple of things. First most boats had the keels > joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire > top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had > boats in the lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the > keel up being the 5200. > > > > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it. > > > > Thanks, > > Frank Albert > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03 > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > > > > Bob > > > > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've > read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to > add, based on my experience: > > > > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the stringer > that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the keel is > bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know for certain > if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may not have wood in > the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a potential structural weak > point. If the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows separation you > will get a leak that will not only contribute to deterioration of the wood > stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: the reason is that you are not > seeing separation between keel and hull, but a crack in the sump which, over > time and load can create a tear in the hull. This is one reason a fix from > the inside is desirable and that you should look carefully at the leading > edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem > sounds. The other thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice > corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between > stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several > of the keel bolts. > > > > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and race. > > > > Allan M. Heyward, Jr. > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C. > 804-747-4500 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > > > > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33. > > > > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in hull > or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats? > > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is this > reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite? > > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for? > > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull design > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding. > > > > > > I live in the Chicago area > > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look for" > > > > Bob > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > _ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > please notify us immediately by e-mail at > legal@weberstephen.com > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. > > > ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C628D9.AF427420 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = > xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> > > >
> charset=3Dus-ascii"> >
> >
> > namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = > name=3D"PlaceType"/> > > namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" > name=3D"PlaceName"/> > > namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" > name=3D"City"/> > > namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" > name=3D"place"/> > >
> >
> > > > > >
> style=3D'font-size: > 7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>RE: [frers-list]questions on a = > purchase of a > frers 33
>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
>
>
>
>
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
>
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> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
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> style=3D'font-size: > 12.0pt'>
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>
> > style=3D'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>Alright big question is where = > all these > boats made the same and if anyone knows of a different version. = > Allen > your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built? Wild thing = > was > number 37 and may have been built in the same year as = > mine.
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: > Arial;color:navy'>My boat may have that new crack problem. I = > noticed last > summer water getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they = > hauled the > boat there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you = > would > suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these = > discussions > someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 = > to 12 > inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull = > thing > seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right = > at that > crack. Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts = > and > then grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using = > alcohol. > They said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove = > the bolts > and lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their experience = > with > this process has taught them a couple of things. First most boats = > had the > keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over = > the > entire top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not want to let = > go. > They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours with the = > only > thing holding the keel up being the 5200.
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: > Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the = > > w:st=3D"on">Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read = > Frank’s > response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to add, = > based on > my experience:
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: > Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a = > void > below the stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to = > which > the keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I > don’t know for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I = > understand > some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it = > creates > a potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel = > at the > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute = > to > deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: = > the > reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, but = > a crack > in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in the hull. = > This > is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and that you should = > look > carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is = > not as > traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to check is the = > keel > bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there = > was a > mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial > erosion of several of the keel bolts.
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com> style=3D'font-weight:bold'>
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers = > 33 >
> >
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
> >
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I > am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33. = >
> >
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> >
> >
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>1)> size=3D1> = > > size=3D2 face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can anyone > update me as to where any specific coring issues in hull or the deck = > area that > might be consistent with most of these boats? = >
> >
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>2)> size=3D1> = > > size=3D2 face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If I wanted > to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is this reasonable or does = > the > installation look like a morphidite?
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>4)> size=3D1> = > > size=3D2 face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any concern > on the design as it relates to the keel to hull design or attachment. = > Separate > from a bad grounding.
> >
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> >
> >
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> >
> >
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I > live in the > w:st=3D"on">Chicago > area
> >
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Thanks > for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look > for”
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. = >
> >
> > > > > > ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C628D9.AF427420-- > > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > frers-list mailing list > frers-list@lists.frers33.com > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list > > > End of frers-list Digest
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_10421_1139002801_0--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Fri Feb 3 23:26:09 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (frers-list@lists.frers33.com)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 18:26:09 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #172 - 2 msgs
In-Reply-To: <20060203225404.06127624D0@mailman.siteprotect.com>
References: <20060203225404.06127624D0@mailman.siteprotect.com>
Message-ID: <8C7F73058E3FA12-C04-7C9D@mblk-r40.sysops.aol.com>
----------MailBlocks_8C7F73045F028A4_C04_7C64_mblk-r40.sysops.aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
is there a way we can get this wonderful communication to look better on the=
web page ?
i get lots and lots of lines of html=20
can i help fund this transformation?
Nancy
Star*Gazer=20
=20
NANCY OGDEN
Campbell & Co.
203 488 0853
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Sent: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 16:54:04 -0600 (CST)
Subject: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #172 - 2 msgs
Send frers-list mailing list submissions to
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Allan Heyward)
2. Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs (fwitt1@comcast.net)
--__--__--
Message: 1
From: "Allan Heyward"
To:
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 16:45:32 -0500
Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=3D_NextPart_000_0037_01C628E1.42DE37D0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=3D"us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
My guess is, the former.
=20
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Kelley
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 4:09 PM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: Re: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
And as part of that same question, is that transverse member completely
horizontal from settee to settee, or do some angle downward toward the
mast butt? I saw one where it was sloped downward, whereas mine is
completely horizontal. Was that other displaying damage, or was that by
design?
=20
#55, built 1990.
=20
Art
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01=20
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:14 PM
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if
anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what
year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been
built in the same year as mine.
=20
Thanks,
Frank Albert
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis
X CIV SEA 01
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
Bob,
=20
My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water
getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there
was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would
suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these
discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel
like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out.
That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and
hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is
to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with
5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then
next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by
about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them a
couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull
just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.
Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the
lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up
being the 5200.
=20
If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
=20
Thanks,
Frank Albert
=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
Bob
=20
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've
read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of
things to add, based on my experience:
=20
The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the
stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the
keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know
for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may
not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a
potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the
hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute
to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge:
the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull,
but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in
the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and
that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the
hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other
thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at
least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the
bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel
bolts.
=20
Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and
race.
=20
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
=20
1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats?
2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is
this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull
design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
=20
=20
I live in the Chicago area
Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look
for"
=20
Bob
=20
________________________________________________________________________
_____
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at
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------=3D_NextPart_000_0037_01C628E1.42DE37D0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=3D"us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<=
span =20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'>My guess is,=20=
=3D
the
former.
-----=
Original=20
=3D
Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On=20
Behalf Of Arthur Kelley Sent: Friday, February =3D
03, 2006
4:09 PM To: =3D
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: Re: =3D
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33
And as=20=
part of=20
that same =3D
question,
is that transverse member completely horizontal from settee to settee, =3D
or do
some angle downward toward the mast butt? I saw one where it was =3D
sloped
downward, whereas mine is completely horizontal. Was that other
displaying damage, or was that by design?
Subject:=20
RE:
[frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Alright=20
big
question is where all these boats made the same and if anyone knows of a
different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what year was =3D
your boat
built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been built in the =3D
same year as
mine.
Thanks,
Frank=20
Albert
-----Original
Message----- From:frers-list-admin@lists=3D
.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On
Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01 Sent: Friday, February =3D
03, 2006
7:09 To: =3D
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =3D
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob,
=
My =3D
boat may have
that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water getting in to =3D
the bilge
area. This fall when they hauled the boat there was a crack right =3D
at the top
of the keel right at where you would suppose the keel to hull joint =3D
would be
(however, in one of these discussions someone mentioned the actual hull =3D
is
lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the =3D
bilge was
seeping out. That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my =3D
yard says the
keel and hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for =3D
this year is
to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with =3D
5200,
fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work =3D
then next year they
will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by about 3 =3D
inches. Their
experience with this process has taught them a couple of things. =3D
First most
boats had the keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 =3D
spread
over the entire top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not want=20=
=3D
to let go.
They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours with the only =3D
thing
holding the keel up being the 5200.
=
If =3D
anyone has had a
similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
Thanks,
Frank=20
Albert
=20
-----Original
Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On=20
Behalf Of Allan Heyward Sent: Thursday, February=20=
=3D
02, 2006
12:03 To: =3D
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: RE: =3D
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob=3D
I=20
have a 1987 =3D
Frers 33
that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read =3D
Frank’s
response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to add, =3D
based on
my experience:
The=20
construction =3D
of the
transverse stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the
leading edge of the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point =3D
of
transition into the hull. I don’t know for certain if this =3D
will be
true on all boats, as I understand some may not have wood in the =3D
stringers, but
where it exists, it creates a potential structural weak =3D
point. If
the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a=20=
=3D
leak
that will not only contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but
provides a path to the bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing =3D
separation
between keel and hull, but a crack in the sump which, over time and load=20=
=3D
can
create a tear in the hull. This is one reason a fix from the =3D
inside is
desirable and that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the =3D
keel at
the hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. =20=
=3D
The
other thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on=20=
=3D
at
least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the =3D
bolts and
nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel =3D
bolts.
Other=20
than that, =3D
the boat
is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and race.
Allan=20
M.
Heyward, Jr.
COOK,
HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
-----Original
Message----- From:
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On=20
Behalf Of Stephen, Robert Sent: Wednesday, February=20=
=3D
01, 2006
7:02 AM To: =3D
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: =3D
[frers-list]questions on
a purchase of a frers 33
I=20
am
currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
1) &nbs=
p; =3D
Can anyone upda=
te me=20
as to where any specific coring issues =3D
in
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =3D
boats?
2) &nbs=
p; =3D
If I wanted to=20=
change=20
out the wheel steering to a tiller is =3D
this
reasonable or does the installation look like a =3D
morphidite?
3) &nbs=
p; =3D
Any questionabl=
e=20
electrical to look for?
4) &nbs=
p; =3D
Any concern on=20=
the=20
design as it relates to the keel to hull =3D
design
or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
I=20
live
in the Chicago area
Thanks
for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look
for”
Bob
&nbs=3D
p;
_________________=3D
____________________________________________________________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail =3D
message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are =3D
hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in =3D
error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com and also indicate the sender's name. Thank =3D
you.
------=3D_NextPart_000_0037_01C628E1.42DE37D0--
--__--__--
Message: 2
From: fwitt1@comcast.net
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:32:55 +0000
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs
Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15346_1139002375_0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Allen,
My yard had to drop the keel last year because of a grounding that looked li=
ke=20
it kicked the keel off to port by about 5 degrees. Additionally I had a crac=
k in=20
the hull just forward of where the leading edge of the keel joins the hull.=20=
They=20
put the hull up on jack stands and they said it normally takes about 5 hour=
s of=20
wailing on the top of the keel bolts with a sledge hammer to loosen it. In m=
y=20
case they took three wacks and it dropped right off. So much for 5200.=20
Frank Wittosch
Pepperke 2.0=20
-------------- Original message --------------=20
From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com=20
> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to=20
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit=20
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list=20
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to=20
> frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> You can reach the person managing the list at=20
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific=20
> than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."=20
>=20
>=20
> Today's Topics:=20
>=20
> 1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV SEA=
01)=20
> 2. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV SEA=
01)=20
>=20
> -- __--__-- =20
>=20
> Message: 1=20
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:08:37 -0500=20
> From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"=20
> To:=20
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94=20
> Content-Type: text/plain;=20
> charset=3D"iso-8859-1"=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
>=20
> Bob,=20
> =3D20=20
> My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water=20=
=3D=20
> getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there=
=3D=20
> was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =3D=20
> suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =3D=20
> discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel=20=
=3D=20
> like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out.=20=
=3D=20
> That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel an=
d =3D=20
> hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is=20=
=3D=20
> to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with=
=3D=20
> 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then=20=
=3D=20
> next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by=20=
=3D=20
> about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them a=20=
=3D=20
> couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull=20=
=3D=20
> just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel=
. =3D=20
> Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the=20=
=3D=20
> lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up=20=
=3D=20
> being the 5200.=20
> =3D20=20
> If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.=20
> =3D20=20
> Thanks,=20
> Frank Albert=20
> =3D20=20
> =3D20=20
> =3D20=20
> -----Original Message-----=20
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward=20
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03=20
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> =3D20=20
> Bob=20
> =3D20=20
> I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've=
=3D=20
> read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of =3D=20
> things to add, based on my experience:=20
> =3D20=20
> The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the=20=
=3D=20
> stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the=
=3D=20
> keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know=20=
=3D=20
> for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may=
=3D=20
> not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =3D=20
> potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the=
=3D=20
> hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute=
=3D=20
> to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge=
: =3D=20
> the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull,=
=3D=20
> but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in=20=
=3D=20
> the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and=20=
=3D=20
> that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the=20=
=3D=20
> hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other =3D=20
> thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at=20=
=3D=20
> least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the=20=
=3D=20
> bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel=20=
=3D=20
> bolts.=20
> =3D20=20
> Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and=20=
=3D=20
> race.=20
> =3D20=20
> Allan M. Heyward, Jr.=20
> COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.=20
> 804-747-4500=20
> =3D20=20
> -----Original Message-----=20
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Rober=
t=20
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM=20
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> =3D20=20
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.=20
> =3D20=20
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =3D=20
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats=
?=20
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =3D=20
> this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?=20
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?=20
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =3D=20
> design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.=20
> =3D20=20
> =3D20=20
> I live in the Chicago area=20
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look=20=
=3D=20
> for"=20
> =3D20=20
> Bob=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________________________________=
__=3D=20
> ____=20
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:=20
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for=20
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may=20
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from=20
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message=20
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible=20
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby=20
> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this=20
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,=
=20
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at =3D=20
> legal@weberstephen.com=20
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94=20
> Content-Type: text/html;=20
> charset=3D"iso-8859-1"=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
>=20
> > xmlns:w=3D3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =3D=20
> xmlns=3D3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">=20
>=20
>=20
> > charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > style=3D3D'tab-interval:.5in'>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=3D=20
> b,
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=3D=20
> boat=20
> may have that new crack problem. =3D=20
> I=20
> noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =3D=20
> boat=20
> there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would=
=3D=20
> suppose=20
> the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions=20=
=3D=20
> someone=20
> mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12=20=
=3D=20
> inches)=20
> and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes"> =20
> That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =3D=20
> keel and=20
> hull joint are right at that crack.> yes"> =20
> Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =3D=20
> then grind=20
> out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol.>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =3D=20
> doesn't work=20
> then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the kee=
l =3D=20
> by=20
> about 3 inches. Their =3D=20
> experience=20
> with this process has taught them a couple of things.>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun:=20
> yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =3D=20
> just this=20
> way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =3D=20
> want to=20
> let go. They've had boats =3D=20
> in the=20
> lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up=20=
=3D=20
> being the=20
> 5200.
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=3D=20
> anyone=20
> has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =3D=20
> it.
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=3D=20
> anks,
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=3D=20
> ank=20
> Albert
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
pan=20
> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> > yes"> =20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
> From:=20
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D3D'font-weight:=
bold'>On=20
Behalf Of Allan Heyward
> Sent: Thursday, February =3D=20
> 02, 2006=20
> 12:03
> To: =3D=20
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: =3D=20
> [frers-list]questions=20
> on a purchase of a frers 33
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3D3Dblack>>=
=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sai=
ls =3D=20
> and=20
> races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've read Frank's =3D=20
> response on your question=20
> 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =3D=20
> experience:> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-colo=
r-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the transve=
rse=20
=3D=20
> stringer=20
> leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading edge of th=
e =3D=20
> keel=20
> sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition into the=20=
=3D=20
> hull.=20
> I don't know for certain if this will be true on all boats, =3D=20
> as I=20
> understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists=
,=20
> it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =3D=20
> edge=20
> of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that will=20=
=3D=20
> not only=20
> contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path t=
o =3D=20
> the=20
> bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel an=
d =3D=20
> hull,=20
> but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in=20=
=3D=20
> the=20
> hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =3D=20
> that you=20
> should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. =20=
=3D=20
> The=20
> fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to =3D=20
> check=20
> is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat=20=
=3D=20
> (mine)=20
> there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that cause=
d=20
> substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3D3Dblack&g=
t;>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is st=
rong=20
=3D=20
> as an=20
> ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =3D=20
> Jr.> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:wi=
ndowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER &=20=
=3D=20
> FEEHAN,=20
> P.C.> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:=20
> windowtext'>
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500>=20
color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>=
<=3D >=20
/p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DTahoma>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;=
color:black'>-----Original=20
> Message-----
> From:=20
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D3D'font-weight=
:bold'>On=20
Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
> Sent: Wednesday, February =3D=20
> 01, 2006=20
> 7:02 AM
> To: =3D=20
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: =3D=20
> [frers-list]questions on=20
> a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D3D'color:=20
> black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:bl=
ack'>=20
> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext=
'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:black'>I=20
am=20
> currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3D3Dblack>&=
gt;=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:black'>=20
> ont>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-al=
t:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblac=
k=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>1)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring is=
sues=20
=3D=20
> in=20
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =3D=20
> boats?> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt=
:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblac=
k=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>2)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tille=
r is=20
=3D=20
> this=20
> reasonable or does the installation look like a =3D=20
> morphidite?> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-colo=
r-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblac=
k=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>3)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?>=20
color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>=
<=3D >=20
/p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblac=
k=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>4)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to=20=
hull=20
=3D=20
> design=20
> or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3D3Dblack>&g=
t;=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:black'>=20
> ont>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-al=
t:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:black'>=20
> ont>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-al=
t:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:black'>I=20
live=20
> in the Chicago area> style=3D3D'color:black;=20
> mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:black'>Thanks=20
> for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =3D=20
> for"> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:w=
indowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:black'>=20
> ont>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-al=
t:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:black'>Bob>=20
>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:window=
text'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:black'> =20
&nbs=3D=20
> p; =20
> > style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=
;=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D=20
> size=3D3D2>_________________________________________________________=
_______=3D=20
> _____________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products =3D=20
> Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or =3D=20
> entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is =3D=20
> privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable =3D=20
> law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended =3D=20
> recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the =3D=20
> message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any =3D=20
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is =3D=20
> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify =3D=20
> us immediately by e-mail at > href=3D3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.co=
m">>=20
size=3D3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
> color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Th=
ank =3D=20
> you.
>=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94--=20
>=20
> -- __--__-- =20
>=20
> Message: 2=20
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:14:30 -0500=20
> From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"=20
> To:=20
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6=20
> Content-Type: text/plain;=20
> charset=3D"iso-8859-1"=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
>=20
> Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if =3D=20
> anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what=
=3D=20
> year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been=20=
=3D=20
> built in the same year as mine.=20
> =3D20=20
> Thanks,=20
> Frank Albert=20
> =3D20=20
> -----Original Message-----=20
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis=
=3D=20
> X CIV SEA 01=20
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09=20
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> =3D20=20
> Bob,=20
> =3D20=20
> My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water=20=
=3D=20
> getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there=
=3D=20
> was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =3D=20
> suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =3D=20
> discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel=20=
=3D=20
> like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out.=20=
=3D=20
> That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel an=
d =3D=20
> hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is=20=
=3D=20
> to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with=
=3D=20
> 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then=20=
=3D=20
> next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by=20=
=3D=20
> about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them a=20=
=3D=20
> couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull=20=
=3D=20
> just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel=
. =3D=20
> Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the=20=
=3D=20
> lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up=20=
=3D=20
> being the 5200.=20
> =3D20=20
> If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.=20
> =3D20=20
> Thanks,=20
> Frank Albert=20
> =3D20=20
> =3D20=20
> =3D20=20
> -----Original Message-----=20
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward=20
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03=20
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> =3D20=20
> Bob=20
> =3D20=20
> I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've=
=3D=20
> read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of =3D=20
> things to add, based on my experience:=20
> =3D20=20
> The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the=20=
=3D=20
> stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the=
=3D=20
> keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know=20=
=3D=20
> for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may=
=3D=20
> not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =3D=20
> potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the=
=3D=20
> hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute=
=3D=20
> to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge=
: =3D=20
> the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull,=
=3D=20
> but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in=20=
=3D=20
> the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and=20=
=3D=20
> that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the=20=
=3D=20
> hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other =3D=20
> thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at=20=
=3D=20
> least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the=20=
=3D=20
> bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel=20=
=3D=20
> bolts.=20
> =3D20=20
> Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and=20=
=3D=20
> race.=20
> =3D20=20
> Allan M. Heyward, Jr.=20
> COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.=20
> 804-747-4500=20
> =3D20=20
> -----Original Message-----=20
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Rober=
t=20
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM=20
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> =3D20=20
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.=20
> =3D20=20
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =3D=20
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats=
?=20
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =3D=20
> this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?=20
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?=20
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =3D=20
> design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.=20
> =3D20=20
> =3D20=20
> I live in the Chicago area=20
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look=20=
=3D=20
> for"=20
> =3D20=20
> Bob=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________________________________=
__=3D=20
> ____=20
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:=20
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for=20
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may=20
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from=20
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message=20
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible=20
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby=20
> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this=20
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,=
=20
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at =3D=20
> legal@weberstephen.com=20
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6=20
> Content-Type: text/html;=20
> charset=3D"iso-8859-1"=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
>=20
> > xmlns:w=3D3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =3D=20
> xmlns=3D3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">=20
>=20
>=20
> > charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > style=3D3D'tab-interval:.5in'>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3D"#993366"=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:1=
2.0pt;font-family:=20
> Arial'>Alright big question is where all these boats made the same a=
nd =3D=20
> if=20
> anyone knows of a different version.> yes"> =20
> Allen your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built?>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Wild thing was number 37 and =3D=20
> may have=20
> been built in the same year as mine.
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3D"#993366"=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:1=
2.0pt;font-family:=20
> Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3D"#993366"=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:1=
2.0pt;font-family:=20
> Arial'>Thanks,
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3D"#993366"=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:1=
2.0pt;font-family:=20
> Arial'>Frank Albert
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3D"#993366"=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:1=
2.0pt;font-family:=20
> Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
> From:=20
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D3D'font-weight:=
bold'>On=20
Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV =3D=20
> SEA 01
> Sent: Friday, February =3D=20
> 03, 2006=20
> 7:09
> To: =3D=20
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: =3D=20
> [frers-list]questions=20
> on a purchase of a frers 33
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=3D=20
> b,
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=3D=20
> boat=20
> may have that new crack problem. =3D=20
> I=20
> noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =3D=20
> boat=20
> there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would=
=3D=20
> suppose=20
> the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions=20=
=3D=20
> someone=20
> mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12=20=
=3D=20
> inches)=20
> and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes"> =20
> That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =3D=20
> keel and=20
> hull joint are right at that crack.> yes"> =20
> Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =3D=20
> then=20
> grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using =3D=20
> alcohol.> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =3D=20
> doesn't work=20
> then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the kee=
l =3D=20
> by=20
> about 3 inches. Their =3D=20
> experience=20
> with this process has taught them a couple of things.>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun:=20
> yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =3D=20
> just this=20
> way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =3D=20
> want to=20
> let go. They've had boats =3D=20
> in the=20
> lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up=20=
=3D=20
> being the=20
> 5200.
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=3D=20
> anyone=20
> has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =3D=20
> it.
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=3D=20
> anks,
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=3D=20
> ank=20
> Albert
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
pan=20
> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =3D=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-b=
idi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
> From: =3D=20
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D3D'font-weight:=
bold'>On=20
> Behalf Of Allan Heyward
> Sent: Thursday, February =3D=20
> 02, 2006=20
> 12:03
> To: =3D=20
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE: =3D=20
> [frers-list]questions=20
> on a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:wi=
ndowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> Roman">> style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>>=20
!supportEmptyParas]> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3D3Dblack>>=
=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sai=
ls =3D=20
> and=20
> races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've read Frank's =3D=20
> response on your question=20
> 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =3D=20
> experience:> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-colo=
r-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the transve=
rse=20
> stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading=20=
=3D=20
> edge of=20
> the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition=20=
=3D=20
> into the=20
> hull. I don't know for certain if this will be true on all =3D=20
> boats, as I=20
> understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists=
,=20
> it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =3D=20
> edge=20
> of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that will=20=
=3D=20
> not only=20
> contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path t=
o =3D=20
> the=20
> bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel an=
d =3D=20
> hull,=20
> but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in=20=
=3D=20
> the=20
> hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =3D=20
> that you=20
> should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. =20=
=3D=20
> The=20
> fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to =3D=20
> check=20
> is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat=20=
=3D=20
> (mine)=20
> there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that cause=
d=20
> substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3D3Dblack&g=
t;>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is st=
rong=20
=3D=20
> as an=20
> ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =3D=20
> Jr.> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:wi=
ndowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER &=20=
=3D=20
> FEEHAN,=20
> P.C.> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:=20
> windowtext'>
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500>=20
color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>=
<=3D >=20
/p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DTahoma>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;=
color:black'>-----Original=20
> Message-----
> From:=20
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D3D'font-weight=
:bold'>On=20
Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
> Sent: Wednesday, February =3D=20
> 01, 2006=20
> 7:02 AM
> To: =3D=20
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: =3D=20
> [frers-list]questions on=20
> a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D3D'color:=20
> black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:bl=
ack'>=20
> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext=
'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:black'>I=20
am=20
> currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3D3Dblack>&=
gt;=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:black'>=20
> ont>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-al=
t:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblac=
k=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>1)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring is=
sues=20
=3D=20
> in=20
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =3D=20
> boats?> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt=
:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblac=
k=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>2)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tille=
r is=20
=3D=20
> this reasonable=20
> or does the installation look like a morphidite?> color=3D3Dblack>=
;>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblac=
k=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>3)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?>=20
color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>=
<=3D >=20
/p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblac=
k=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>4)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to=20=
hull=20
=3D=20
> design=20
> or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3D3Dblack>&g=
t;=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:black'>=20
> ont>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-al=
t:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:black'>=20
> ont>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-al=
t:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:black'>I=20
live=20
> in the Chicago area> style=3D3D'color:black;=20
> mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:black'>Thanks=20
> for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =3D=20
> for"> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:w=
indowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:black'>=20
> ont>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-al=
t:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:black'>Bob>=20
>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:window=
text'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:black'> =20
&nbs=3D=20
> p; =20
> > style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p>=
;=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D=20
> size=3D3D2>_________________________________________________________=
_______=3D=20
> _____________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products =3D=20
> Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or =3D=20
> entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is =3D=20
> privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable =3D=20
> law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended =3D=20
> recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the =3D=20
> message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any =3D=20
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is =3D=20
> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify =3D=20
> us immediately by e-mail at > href=3D3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.co=
m">>=20
size=3D3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
> color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Th=
ank =3D=20
> you.
>=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6--=20
>=20
>=20
> -- __--__-- =20
>=20
> _______________________________________________=20
> frers-list mailing list=20
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list=20
>=20
>=20
> End of frers-list Digest=20
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15346_1139002375_0
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Allen,
My yard had to drop the keel last year because of a grounding that look=
ed=20
like it kicked the keel off to port by about 5 degrees. Additionally I had a=
=20
crack in the hull just forward of where the leading edge of the keel joins t=
he=20
hull. They put the hull up on jack stands and they said it=20
normally takes about 5 hours of wailing on the top of the keel bolts wi=
th a=20
sledge hammer to loosen it. In my case they took three wacks and it dropped=20
right off. So much for 5200.
Frank Wittosch
Pepperke 2.0
-------------- Original message -------------- From:=20
frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
> Send frers-list mailing li=
st=20
submissions to > frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > To=20
subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >=20
http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list > or, via email,=
=20
send a message with subject or body 'help' to > frers-list-request@li=
sts.frers33.com=20
> > You can reach the person managing the list at >=20
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com > > When replying, please e=
dit=20
your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of=20
frers-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: >=20
> 1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV=
SEA=20
01) > 2. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X=
CI
V SEA 01) > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 1 &=
gt;=20
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > Date=
:=20
Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:08:37 -0500 > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"=
=20
> To: >=
=20
Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > This is a multi-par=
t=20
message in MIME format. > > ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628BA.9=
0344C94=20
> Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=3D"iso-8859-1" >=20
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Bob, >=20=
=3D20=20
> My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer wate=
r =3D=20
> getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat t=
here=20
=3D > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you wou=
ld =3D=20
> suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these=20=
=3D=20
> discussions someone mentioned the actu
al hull is lower, down the keel =3D > like about 10 to 12 inches) an=
d=20
water from the bilge was seeping out. =3D > That lower hull thing see=
ms=20
pretty strange and my yard says the keel and =3D > hull joint are rig=
ht at=20
that crack. Their suggestion for this year is =3D > to snug up the ke=
el=20
bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with =3D > 5200, fairi=
ng it=20
using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then =3D > next year th=
ey=20
will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by =3D > about 3=
=20
inches. Their experience with this process has taught them a =3D > co=
uple=20
of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =3D > ju=
st=20
this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel. =3D =
>=20
Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the =3D >=20
lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up =3D >=20
being the 5200. > =3D20 > If anyone has
had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it. > =3D20 >=
;=20
Thanks, > Frank Albert > =3D20 > =3D20 > =3D20 <=
BR>>=20
-----Original Message----- > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=
=3D=20
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heywa=
rd=20
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03 > To:=20
frers-list@lists.frers33.com > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on=20=
a=20
purchase of a frers 33 > =3D20 > Bob > =3D20 > I=
have a=20
1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've =3D >=20=
read=20
Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of =3D > t=
hings=20
to add, based on my experience: > =3D20 > The construction of=20=
the=20
transverse stringer leaves a void below the =3D > stringer that exten=
ds to=20
the leading edge of the keel sump to which the =3D > keel is bolted a=
t the=20
point of transition into the hull. I don't know =3D > fo
r certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may =3D=20
> not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a=20=
=3D=20
> potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at=
the=20
=3D > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only=20
contribute =3D > to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides=20=
a path=20
to the bilge: =3D > the reason is that you are not seeing separation=20
between keel and hull, =3D > but a crack in the sump which, over time=
and=20
load can create a tear in =3D > the hull. This is one reason a fix fr=
om the=20
inside is desirable and =3D > that you should look carefully at the l=
eading=20
edge of the keel at the =3D > hull. The fix is not as traumatic as th=
e=20
problem sounds. The other =3D > thing to check is the keel bolts for=20=
deep=20
crevice corrosion, as on at =3D > least one boat (mine) there was a=20
mismatch between stainless in the =3D > bolts and nuts tha
t caused substantial erosion of several of the keel =3D > bolts. >=20
=3D20 > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to=
sail=20
and =3D > race. > =3D20 > Allan M. Heyward, Jr. >=
; COOK,=20
HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C. > 804-747-4500 > =3D20=
=20
> -----Original Message----- > From: frers-list-admin@lists.fr=
ers33.com=20
=3D > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephe=
n,=20
Robert > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM > To:=20
frers-list@lists.frers33.com > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a=20
purchase of a frers 33 > =3D20 > I am currently interested in=20
purchasing a frers 33. > =3D20 > 1) Can anyone update me as to=
where=20
any specific coring issues in =3D > hull or the deck area that might=20=
be=20
consistent with most of these boats? > 2) If I wanted to change out t=
he=20
wheel steering to a tiller is =3D > this reasonabl
e or does the installation look like a morphidite? > 3) Any question=
able=20
electrical to look for? > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates=20=
to=20
the keel to hull =3D > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grou=
nding.=20
> =3D20 > =3D20 > I live in the Chicago area > T=
hanks=20
for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =3D >=
for"=20
> =3D20 > Bob > =3D20 > > _______________=
__________________________________________________________=3D=20
> ____ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: > This Weber-Stephen=20
Products Company e-mail is intended only for > the use of the individ=
ual=20
or entity to which it is addressed and may > contain information that=
is=20
privileged, confidential and exempt from > disclosure under applicabl=
e=20
law. If the reader of this e-mail message > is not the intended=20
recipient, or the employee or agent responsible > for delivery of the=
=20
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that an=
y=20
dissemination, distribution or copying of this > communication is=20
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > please notif=
y us=20
immediately by e-mail at =3D > legal@w=
eberstephen.com=20
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. > >=20
------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94 > Content-Type: text/html;=20
> charset=3D"iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20
quoted-printable > > > xmlns:w=3D3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-c=
om:office:word"=20
=3D > xmlns=3D3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> > &g=
t;=20
>=20
>=
;=20
charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> > > >=20
>=20
> > > <=
BR>>=20
> > > > style=3D3D'tab-interval:.5in'> >=20
>=20
=
>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=3D=20
> boat > may have that new crack problem. =20=
=3D=20
> I > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge=
=20
area.> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall=
when=20
they hauled the =3D > boat > there was a crack right at the to=
p of=20
the keel right at where you would =3D > suppose > the keel to=20=
hull=20
joint would be (however, in one of these discussions =3D > someone >=20
mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 =3D >=20
inches) > and water from the bilge was seeping out.>=
;=20
yes"> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange an=
d my=20
yard says the =3D > keel and > hull joint are right at that=20
crack.> yes"> > Their suggestion=
for=20
this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =3D > then grind >=20=
out=20
the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol.>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =3D <=
BR>>=20
doesn't work > then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the=
=20
boat off the keel =3D > by > about 3 inches. =20
Their =3D > experience > with this process has taught t=
hem a=20
couple of things.> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: >=20
yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =3D=20
> just this > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire to=
p of=20
the keel.> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Secon=
d,=20
5200 really does not =3D > want to > let go. =20
They've had boats =3D > in the > lift like this for fou=
r=20
hours with the o
nly thing holding the keel up =3D > being the >=20
5200.
=
>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=3D=20
> anyone > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about=
=3D=20
> it.
> style=3D3D'font-size: >=20
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails=20=
=3D=20
> and > races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've read Frank's=20=
=3D=20
> response on your question > 4 and only have a couple of thin=
gs=20
to add, based on my =3D > experience:>=20
color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:=
windowtext'><=3D=20
> /p> > >
> style=3D3D'font-size: >=20
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the transverse=20=
=3D=20
> stringer > leaves a void below the stringer that extends to=20=
the=20
leading edge of the =3D > keel > sump to which the keel is bol=
ted at=20
the point of transition into the =3D > hull. > I don't k=
now=20
for certain if this will be true on all boats, =3D > as I >=20
understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists,=20
> it creates a potential structural weak point. If the=20
leading =3D > edge > of the keel at the hull shows separation=20=
you=20
will get a leak that will =3D > not only > contribute to=20
deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to =3D > the=20
> bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between kee=
l=20
and =3D > hull, > but a crack in the sump which, over time=20=
and=20
load can create a tear in =3D > the > hull. This is one=20=
reason=20
a fix from the inside is desirable and =3D > that you > should=
look=20
carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. =3D > Th=
e=20
> fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thin=
g to=20
=3D > check > is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as=
on at=20
least one boat =3D > (mine) > there was a mismatch between sta=
inless=20
in the bolts and nuts that caused > substantial erosion of several of=
the=20
keel bolts.> color=3D3Dblack>&g=
t;=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> /p> > >
> style=3D3D'font-size: >=20
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is strong=20=
=3D=20
> as an > ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-c=
olor-alt:windowtext'>
>=20
style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>>=20
color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>1)> style=3D3D'font-size: > 7.0pt;color:black'> &nb=
sp; =20
=3D > > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:Arial;=20
> color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific corin=
g=20
issues =3D > in > hull or the deck area that might be consiste=
nt=20
with most of these =3D > boats?>=20
color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:=
windowtext'><=3D=20
> /p> > >
>=20
style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>>=20
color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>2)> style=3D3D'font-size: > 7.0pt;color:black'> &nb=
sp; =20
=3D > > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:Arial;=20
> color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a=20
tiller is =3D > this > reasonable or does the installation loo=
k like=20
a =3D > morphidite?> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> /p> > >
> color=3D3Dblack > face=3D3DArial>>=
=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I live >=
; in=20
the Chicago area>=20
style=3D3D'color:black; > mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>=20
>
> color=3D3Dbla=
ck >=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:Arial;color:black'>Thanks=20
> for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look=20=
=3D=20
> for"> color=3D3Dblack>=
>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> /p> > >
>=20
face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D > size=3D3D2>________________=
________________________________________________=3D=20
> _____________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This Weber-Stephen Produc=
ts =3D=20
> Company e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or=
=3D=20
> entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that=
is=20
=3D > privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under=20
applicable =3D > law. If the reader of this e-mail message is not=20=
the=20
intended =3D > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for=
=20
delivery of the =3D > message to the intended recipient, you are=20
hereby notified that any =3D > dissemination, distribution or copy=
ing of=20
this communication is =3D > prohibited. If you have received this=20=
e-mail=20
in error, please notify =3D > us immediately by e-mail at <=
A=20
=3D"> href=3D3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D3D2>legal@weberstephen.com > color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>and also indicate the sender's=
name.=20
Thank =3D > you.
> > > ------_=3D_Next=
Part_001_01C628BA.90344C94--=20
> > -- __--__-- > > Message: 2 > Subject=
:=20
RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > Date: Fri, 3=20=
Feb=20
2006 15:14:30 -0500 > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"=20
> To: >=
=20
Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > This is a multi-par=
t=20
message in MIME format. > > ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628FE.7=
08DCEC6=20
> Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=3D"iso-8859-1" >=20
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Alright big=20
question is where all these boats made the same and if =3D > anyone k=
nows=20
of a different version. Allen y our boat was number 14 what =3D > y=
ear=20
was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been =3D >=
built=20
in the same year as mine. > =3D20 > Thanks, > Frank Alb=
ert=20
> =3D20 > -----Original Message----- > From:=20
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lis=
ts.frers33.com]On=20
Behalf Of Albert, Francis =3D > X CIV SEA 01 > Sent: Friday,=20
February 03, 2006 7:09 > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com >=20
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > =3D2=
0=20
> Bob, > =3D20 > My boat may have that new crack proble=
m. I=20
noticed last summer water =3D > getting in to the bilge area. This fa=
ll=20
when they hauled the boat there =3D > was a crack right at the top of=
the=20
keel right at where you would =3D > suppose the keel to hull joint wo=
uld be=20
(however, in one of these =3D > discussions someone mentioned the act=
ual=20
hull is lower , down the keel =3D > like about 10 to 12 inches) and=
water=20
from the bilge was seeping out. =3D > That lower hull thing seems pre=
tty=20
strange and my yard says the keel and =3D > hull joint are right at t=
hat=20
crack. Their suggestion for this year is =3D > to snug up the keel bo=
lts=20
and then grind out the crack and fill it with =3D > 5200, fairing it=20=
using=20
alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then =3D > next year they wil=
l=20
remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by =3D > about 3 inch=
es.=20
Their experience with this process has taught them a =3D > couple of=20
things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =3D > just=20=
this=20
way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel. =3D >=20
Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the =3D >=20
lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up =3D >=20
being the 5200. > =3D20 > If anyone has had a similar e xper=
ience=20
I'd like to hear about it. > =3D20 > Thanks, > Frank Al=
bert=20
> =3D20 > =3D20 > =3D20 > -----Original Message-=
----=20
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D >=20
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward &g=
t;=20
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03 > To: frers-list@lists.frers3=
3.com=20
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 =
>=20
=3D20 > Bob > =3D20 > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails=
and=20
races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've =3D > read Frank's response on your=
=20
question 4 and only have a couple of =3D > things to add, based on my=
=20
experience: > =3D20 > The construction of the transverse strin=
ger=20
leaves a void below the =3D > stringer that extends to the leading ed=
ge of=20
the keel sump to which the =3D > keel is bolted at the point of trans=
ition=20
into the hull. I don't know =3D > for certain if thi s will be true=
on=20
all boats, as I understand some may =3D > not have wood in the string=
ers,=20
but where it exists, it creates a =3D > potential structural weak poi=
nt. If=20
the leading edge of the keel at the =3D > hull shows separation you w=
ill=20
get a leak that will not only contribute =3D > to deterioration of th=
e wood=20
stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: =3D > the reason is that=20=
you=20
are not seeing separation between keel and hull, =3D > but a crack in=
the=20
sump which, over time and load can create a tear in =3D > the hull. T=
his is=20
one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =3D > that you shou=
ld=20
look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the =3D > hull. The=
fix=20
is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other =3D > thing to c=
heck=20
is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at =3D > least on=
e boat=20
(mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the =3D > bolts and=20=
nuts=20
that caused substan tial erosion of several of the keel =3D > bolts=
.=20
> =3D20 > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a d=
elight=20
to sail and =3D > race. > =3D20 > Allan M. Heyward, Jr.=
=20
> COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C. > 804-747-4500=
=20
> =3D20 > -----Original Message----- > From:=20
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lis=
ts.frers33.com]=20
On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:0=
2 AM=20
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > Subject: [frers-list]ques=
tions=20
on a purchase of a frers 33 > =3D20 > I am currently intereste=
d in=20
purchasing a frers 33. > =3D20 > 1) Can anyone update me as to=
where=20
any specific coring issues in =3D > hull or the deck area that might=20=
be=20
consistent with most of these boats? > 2) If I wanted to change out t=
he=20
wheel steering to a tiller is =3D > this reasonable or does the in =20
stallation look like a morphidite? > 3) Any questionable electrical t=
o=20
look for? > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to=
=20
hull =3D > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding. &=
gt;=20
=3D20 > =3D20 > I live in the Chicago area > Thanks for=
any=20
advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =3D > for" >=20
=3D20 > Bob > =3D20 > > ________________________=
_________________________________________________=3D=20
> ____ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: > This Weber-Stephen=20
Products Company e-mail is intended only for > the use of the individ=
ual=20
or entity to which it is addressed and may > contain information that=
is=20
privileged, confidential and exempt from > disclosure under applicabl=
e=20
law. If the reader of this e-mail message > is not the intended=20
recipient, or the employee or agent responsible > for delivery of the=
=20
message to the i
ntended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any dissemination,=
=20
distribution or copying of this > communication is prohibited. If you=
=20
have received this e-mail in error, > please notify us immediately by=
=20
e-mail at =3D > legal@weberstephen.com=
=20
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. > >=20
------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6 > Content-Type: text/html;=20
> charset=3D"iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20
quoted-printable > > > xmlns:w=3D3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-c=
om:office:word"=20
=3D > xmlns=3D3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> > &g=
t;=20
>=20
>=
;=20
charset=3D3Diso-8859-1"> > > >=20
>=20
> > > <=
BR>>=20
> > > > style=3D3D'tab-interval:.5in'> >=20
>=20
> >=20
=
>=20
color=3D3D"#993366" > face=3D3DArial>>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family: >=20
Arial'>Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and=20=
=3D=20
> if > anyone knows of a different version.>=
=20
yes"> > Allen your boat was number 14 what year was y=
our=20
boat built?> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Wil=
d=20
thing was number 37 and =3D > may have > been built in the sam=
e year=20
as mine.
> From: > frers-list-admin=
@lists.frers33.com=20
=3D > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]>=20
style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CI=
V =3D=20
> SEA 01
> Sent: Friday, February =3D=20
> 03, 2006 > 7:09
> To: =3D =
>=20
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: RE:=20=
=3D=20
> [frers-list]questions > on a purchase of a frers=20
33
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=3D=20
> boat > may have that new crack problem. =20=
=3D=20
> I > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge=
=20
area.> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall=
when=20
they hauled the =3D > boat > there was a crack right at the to=
p of=20
the keel right at where you would =3D > suppose > the keel to=20=
hull=20
joint would be (however, in one of these discussions =3D > someone >=20
mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 =3D >=20
inches) > and water from the bilge was seeping out.>=
;=20
yes"> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange an=
d my=20
yard says the =3D > keel and > hull joint are right at that=20
crack.> yes"> > Their suggestion=
for=20
this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =3D > then > grind=20=
out=20
the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using =3D > alcohol.> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if t=
hat =3D=20
> doesn't work > then next year they will remove the bolts and=
=20
lift the boat off the keel =3D > by > about 3 inches.Their =3D > experience > with this process=20=
has=20
taught them a couple of things.> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun:=20=
>=20
yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =3D=20
> just this > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire to=
p of=20
the keel.> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Secon=
d,=20
5200 really does not =3D > want to > let go. =20
They've had boats =3D > in the > lift like this for fou=
r=20
hours
with the only thing holding the keel up =3D > being the >=20
5200.
=
>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=3D=20
> anyone > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about=
=3D=20
> it.
> Subject: RE:=20=
=3D=20
> [frers-list]questions > on a purchase of a frers=20
33> style=3D3D'color:black;=
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> /p> > >=20
>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I hav=
e a=20
1987 Frers 33 that sails =3D > and > races on the Chesapeake=20
Bay. I've read Frank's =3D > response on your question >=
4 and=20
only have a couple of things to add, based on my =3D > experience:> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-c=
olor-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> /p> > >=20
>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The=20
construction of the transverse > stringer leaves a void below the=20
stringer that extends to the leading =3D > edge of > the keel=20=
sump=20
to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition =3D > into the=
=20
> hull. I don't know for certain if this will be true on all=20=
=3D=20
> boats, as I > understand some may not have wood in the=20
stringers, but where it exists, > it creates a potential struct=
ural=20
weak point. If the leading =3D > edge > of the keel at t=
he=20
hull shows separation you will get a leak that will =3D > not only >=20
contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to=20=
=3D=20
> the > bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separatio=
n=20
between keel and =3D > hull, > but a crack in the sump which
, over time and load can create a tear in =3D > the > hull.&n=
bsp;=20
This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =3D > that=20=
you=20
> should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the=20
hull. =3D > The > fix is not as traumatic as the problem=
=20
sounds. The other thing to =3D > check > is the keel bol=
ts for=20
deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat =3D > (mine) >=
there=20
was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused >=20
substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.>=
;=20
color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:=
windowtext'><=3D=20
> /p> > >=20
>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other=
than=20
that, the boat is strong =3D > as an > ox and a delight to sai=
l and=20
race.> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> /p> > >=20
> style=3D3D'font-size: >=20
7.0pt;color:black'> =3D >=20
> size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; >=20
color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues=20=
=3D=20
> in > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with mos=
t of=20
these =3D > boats?> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> /p> > >=20
> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-inden=
t:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > color:black'>2)> style=3D3D'font-size: >=20
7.0pt;color:black'> =3D >=20
> size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; >=20
color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is=20=
=3D=20
> this reasonable > or does the installation look like a=20
morphidite?> color=3D3Dblack>&g=
t;=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> /p> > >=20
> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-inden=
t:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > color:black'>4)> style=3D3D'font-size: >=20
7.0pt;color:black'> =3D >=20
> size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; >=20
color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull=20=
=3D=20
> design > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-c=
olor-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> /p> > >=20
> color=3D3Dblack >=
=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:Arial;color:black'>I=20
live > in the Chicago area> style=3D3D'color:black; > mso-color-alt:windowtext'>=
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack >=
=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:Arial;color:black'>Thanks=20
> for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look=20=
=3D=20
> for"> color=3D3Dblack>=
>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> /p> > >=20
> face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff=20=
=3D >=20
size=3D3D2>______________________________________________________________=
__=3D=20
> _____________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This Weber-Stephen Produc=
ts =3D=20
> Company e-mail is intended only for the use of the individual or=
=3D=20
> entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that=
is=20
=3D > privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under=20
applicable =3D > law. If the reader of this e-mail message is not=20=
the=20
intended =3D > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for=
=20
delivery of the =3D > message to the intended recipient, you are=20
hereby notified that any =3D > dissemination, distribution or copy=
ing of=20
this communication is =3D > prohibited. If you have received this=20=
e-mail=20
in error, please notify =3D > us immediately by e-mail at <=
A=20
=3D"> href=3D3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D3D2>legal@weberstephen.com > color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>and also indicate the sender's=
name.=20
Thank =3D > you.
Send frers-list mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:
1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Allan Heyward)
2. Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs (fwitt1@comcast.net)
--__--__--
Message: 1
From: "Allan Heyward" <heyward@chl=
hf.com>
To: <frers-list@lists.f=
rers33.com>
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 16:45:32 -0500
Reply-To: frers-list@lists=
.frers33.com
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=3D_NextPart_000_0037_01C628E1.42DE37D0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=3D"us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
My guess is, the former.
=20
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-adm=
in@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-a=
dmin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Kelley
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 4:09 PM
To: frers-list@lists.frers=
33.com
Subject: Re: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
And as part of that same question, is that transverse member completely
horizontal from settee to settee, or do some angle downward toward the
mast butt? I saw one where it was sloped downward, whereas mine is
completely horizontal. Was that other displaying damage, or was that by
design?
=20
#55, built 1990.
=20
Art
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Albert, <mailto:franci=
s.albert@navy.mil> Francis X CIV SEA 01=20
To: frers-list@lists.frers=
33.com=20
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:14 PM
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if
anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what
year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been
built in the same year as mine.
=20
Thanks,
Frank Albert
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-adm=
in@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-l=
ist-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis
X CIV SEA 01
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
To: frers-list@lists.frers=
33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
Bob,
=20
My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water
getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there
was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would
suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these
discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel
like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out.
That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and
hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is
to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with
5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then
next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by
about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them a
couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull
just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.
Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the
lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up
being the 5200.
=20
If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
=20
Thanks,
Frank Albert
=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-adm=
in@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-l=
ist-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
To: frers-list@lists.frers=
33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
Bob
=20
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've
read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of
things to add, based on my experience:
=20
The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the
stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the
keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know
for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may
not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a
potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the
hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute
to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge:
the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull,
but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in
the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and
that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the
hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other
thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at
least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the
bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel
bolts.
=20
Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and
race.
=20
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-adm=
in@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-a=
dmin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers=
33.com
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
=20
I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
=20
1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats?
2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is
this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull
design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
=20
=20
I live in the Chicago area
Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look
for"
=20
Bob
=20
________________________________________________________________________
_____
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify us immediately by e-mail at
<mailto:legal@weberstephen.co=
m> legal@weberstephen.com=
and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
------=3D_NextPart_000_0037_01C628E1.42DE37D0
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<p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D2 color=3D3D"#003300" face=
=3D3DArial><span =20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'>My guess is,=
=3D
the
former.</span></font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D2 color=3D3D"#003300" face=
=3D3DArial><span =20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'> &l=
t;/span><=3D =20
/font></p>
<div>
<p class=3D3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3D3 color=3D3D"#003300" =3D f=
ace=3D3DArial><span =20
style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'>Allan M.=20=
=3D
Heyward, Jr.</span></font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3D2 color=3D3D"#003300" =3D f=
ace=3D3DArial><span =20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'>COOK, =3D
HEYWARD, LEE,
HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.</span></font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3D2 color=3D3D"#003300" =3D f=
ace=3D3DArial><span =20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'>804-747-4500=
</=3D =20
span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3D2 color=3D3D"#003300" face=
=3D3DArial><span =20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'> &l=
t;/span><=3D =20
/font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
2 =3D =20
face=3D3DTahoma><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'=
>-----Original=20
=3D
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b&g=
t;
frers-list-admin@lis=
ts.frers33.com =3D
[mailto:frers-list-a=
dmin@lists.frers33.com] <b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'&=
gt;On=20
Behalf Of </span></b>Arthur Kelley<br>
<b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b&g=
t; Friday, February =3D
03, 2006
4:09 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>=
=3D
frers-list@lists.frers33.c=
om<br>
<b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></=
b> Re: =3D
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33</span></font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
3 =3D face=3D3D"Times=20
New Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span&=
gt;</font></p>
<div>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
2 =3D =20
face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&g=
t;And as part of=20
that same =3D
question,
is that transverse member completely horizontal from settee to settee, =3D
or do
some angle downward toward the mast butt? I saw one where it was=20=
=3D
sloped
downward, whereas mine is completely horizontal. Was that other
displaying damage, or was that by design?</span></font></p>=
;
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
3 =3D face=3D3D"Times=20
New Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span&=
gt;</font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
2 =3D =20
face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&g=
t;#55, built =3D
1990.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
3 =3D face=3D3D"Times=20
New Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span&=
gt;</font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
2 =3D =20
face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&g=
t;Art</span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =3D 1.5pt;pad=
ding:0in=20
0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt'=3D =20
>
<div>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
2 =3D =20
face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&g=
t;----- Original=20
Message =3D
----- </span></font></p>
</div>
<div style=3D3D'font-color:black'>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal =3D style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in;background:#E4E4E=
4'><b><font=20
size=3D3D2 face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span=3D =20
></font></b><font size=3D3D2 face=3D3DArial><span=20=
=3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>=20
<a href=3D3D"mailto:f=
rancis.albert@navy.mil" =3D title=3D3D"francis.albert@navy.mil">Albert,
Francis X CIV SEA 01</a> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font=20=
size=3D3D2 =3D =20
face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;fo=
nt-weight:bold'>To:</span><=3D =20
/font></b><font size=3D3D2 face=3D3DArial><span =3D styl=
e=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>=20
<a href=3D3D"mai=
lto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com" =3D title=3D3D"frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</=
a>
</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font=20=
size=3D3D2 =3D =20
face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;fo=
nt-weight:bold'>Sent:</span=3D =20
></font></b><font size=3D3D2 face=3D3DArial><span=20=
=3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>=20
Friday,
February 03, 2006 3:14 PM</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font=20=
size=3D3D2 =3D =20
face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;fo=
nt-weight:bold'>Subject:</s=3D =20
pan></font></b><font size=3D3D2 face=3D3DArial><spa=
n =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>=20
RE:
[frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33</span></font>&=
lt;/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
3 =3D face=3D3D"Times=20
New Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span&=
gt;</font></p>
</div>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =3D clas=
s=3D3DEmailStyle21><font =20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3D"#993366" face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt'>Alright=20
big
question is where all these boats made the same and if anyone knows of a
different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what year was=20=
=3D
your boat
built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been built in the=20=
=3D
same year as
mine.</span></font></span></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =3D clas=
s=3D3DEmailStyle21><font =20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3D"#993366" face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt'> </span></font></span></p&g=
t;
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =3D clas=
s=3D3DEmailStyle21><font =20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3D"#993366" face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt'>Thanks,</span></font></span></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =3D clas=
s=3D3DEmailStyle21><font =20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3D"#993366" face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt'>Frank=20
Albert</span></font></span></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =3D clas=
s=3D3DEmailStyle21><font =20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3D"#993366" face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt'> </span></font></span></p&g=
t;
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
2 =3D color=3D3Dblack =20
face=3D3DTahoma><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tah=
oma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b&g=
t; <a href=3D3D"mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.co=
m">frers-list-admin@lists=3D
.frers33.com</a>
[ma=
ilto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]<b><span =3D style=3D3=
D'font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01<br>
<b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b&g=
t; Friday, February =3D
03, 2006
7:09<br>
<b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>=
=3D
frers-list@lists.frers33.c=
om<br>
<b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></=
b> RE: =3D
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33</span></font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
3 =3D face=3D3D"Times=20
New Roman"><span style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span&=
gt;</font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =3D clas=
s=3D3DEmailStyle20><font =20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt'>Bob,</span></font></span></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =3D clas=
s=3D3DEmailStyle20><font =20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt'> </span></font></span></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =3D clas=
s=3D3DEmailStyle20><font =20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10=
.0pt'>My =3D
boat may have
that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water getting in to=20=
=3D
the bilge
area. This fall when they hauled the boat there was a crack right=20=
=3D
at the top
of the keel right at where you would suppose the keel to hull joint =3D
would be
(however, in one of these discussions someone mentioned the actual hull =3D
is
lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the =3D
bilge was
seeping out. That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my=20=
=3D
yard says the
keel and hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for=20=
=3D
this year is
to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with =3D
5200,
fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work=
=3D
then next year they
will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by about 3 =3D
inches. Their
experience with this process has taught them a couple of things. =20=
=3D
First most
boats had the keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 =3D
spread
over the entire top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not want=
=3D
to let go.
They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours with the only =3D
thing
holding the keel up being the 5200.</span></font></span>&l=
t;/p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =3D clas=
s=3D3DEmailStyle20><font =20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt'> </span></font></span></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =3D clas=
s=3D3DEmailStyle20><font =20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10=
.0pt'>If =3D
anyone has had a
similar experience I'd like to hear about it.</span></font></=
span></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =3D clas=
s=3D3DEmailStyle20><font =20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt'> </span></font></span></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =3D clas=
s=3D3DEmailStyle20><font =20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt'>Thanks,</span></font></span></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =3D clas=
s=3D3DEmailStyle20><font =20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt'>Frank=20
Albert</span></font></span></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =3D clas=
s=3D3DEmailStyle20><font =20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt'> </span></font></span></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =3D clas=
s=3D3DEmailStyle20><font =20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt'> =20
</span></font></span></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><span =3D clas=
s=3D3DEmailStyle20><font =20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt'> </span></font></span></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
2 =3D color=3D3Dblack =20
face=3D3DTahoma><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tah=
oma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b&g=
t;
frers-list-admin@lis=
ts.frers33.com =3D
[ma=
ilto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]<b><span style=3D3D'fo=
nt-weight:bold'>On=20
Behalf Of </span></b>Allan Heyward<br>
<b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b&g=
t; Thursday, February =3D
02, 2006
12:03<br>
<b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>=
=3D
frers-list@lists.frers33.c=
om<br>
<b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></=
b> RE: =3D
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33</span></font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
3 =3D color=3D3Dblack =20
face=3D3D"Times New Roman"><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;colo=
r:black'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
2 =3D color=3D3Dnavy=20
face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:navy'>Bob</span></font>=3D
</p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
2 =3D color=3D3Dnavy=20
face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:navy'> </span></fo=3D =20
nt></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
2 =3D color=3D3Dnavy=20
face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:navy'>I=20
have a 1987 =3D
Frers 33
that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read=20=
=3D
Frank’s
response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to add, =3D
based on
my experience:</span></font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
2 =3D color=3D3Dnavy=20
face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:navy'> </span></fo=3D =20
nt></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
2 =3D color=3D3Dnavy=20
face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:navy'>The=20
construction =3D
of the
transverse stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the
leading edge of the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point =3D
of
transition into the hull. I don’t know for certain if th=
is =3D
will be
true on all boats, as I understand some may not have wood in the =3D
stringers, but
where it exists, it creates a potential structural weak =3D
point. If
the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a=20=
=3D
leak
that will not only contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but
provides a path to the bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing =3D
separation
between keel and hull, but a crack in the sump which, over time and load=20=
=3D
can
create a tear in the hull. This is one reason a fix from the =3D
inside is
desirable and that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the =3D
keel at
the hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds.&n=
bsp; =3D
The
other thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on=20=
=3D
at
least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the =3D
bolts and
nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the keel =3D
bolts.</span></font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
2 =3D color=3D3Dnavy=20
face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:navy'> </span></fo=3D =20
nt></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
2 =3D color=3D3Dnavy=20
face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:navy'>Other=20
than that, =3D
the boat
is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and race.</span></font>=
</p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
2 =3D color=3D3Dnavy=20
face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:navy'> </span></fo=3D =20
nt></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoAutoSig style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3=
D3 =3D color=3D3Dnavy =20
face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Aria=
l;color:navy'>Allan=20
M.
Heyward, Jr.</span></font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoAutoSig style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3=
D2 =3D color=3D3Dnavy =20
face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Aria=
l;color:navy'>COOK,
HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.</span></font></p&=
gt;
<p class=3D3DMsoAutoSig style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3=
D2 =3D color=3D3Dnavy =20
face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Aria=
l;color:navy'>804-747-4500</spa=3D =20
n></font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D=
2 =3D color=3D3Dnavy=20
face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:navy'> </span></fo=3D =20
nt></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D3=
D2 =3D color=3D3Dblack =20
face=3D3DTahoma><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tah=
oma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b&g=
t;
frers-list-admin@lis=
ts.frers33.com =3D
[mailto:frers-list-a=
dmin@lists.frers33.com] <b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'&=
gt;On=20
Behalf Of </span></b>Stephen, Robert<br>
<b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b&g=
t; Wednesday, February =3D
01, 2006
7:02 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>=
=3D
frers-list@lists.frers33.c=
om<br>
<b><span style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></=
b> =3D
[frers-list]questions on
a purchase of a frers 33</span></font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D3=
D3 =3D color=3D3Dblack =20
face=3D3D"Times New Roman"><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;colo=
r:black'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D3=
D2 =3D color=3D3Dblack =20
face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Aria=
l;color:black'>I=20
am
currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.</span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D3=
D2 =3D color=3D3Dblack =20
face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Aria=
l;color:black'> </span></f=3D =20
ont></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal =3D style=3D3D'margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25=
in'><font=20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; =20
color:black'>1)</span></font><font size=3D3D1 color=3D3Dbl=
ack><span =3D =20
style=3D3D'font-size: 7.0pt;color:black'> &=
amp;nbsp; =3D
</span></font><font size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DAria=
l><span =3D =20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'>Can anyone u=
pdate me=20
as to where any specific coring issues =3D
in
hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =3D
boats?</span></font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal =3D style=3D3D'margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25=
in'><font=20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; =20
color:black'>2)</span></font><font size=3D3D1 color=3D3Dbl=
ack><span =3D =20
style=3D3D'font-size: 7.0pt;color:black'> &=
amp;nbsp; =3D
</span></font><font size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DAria=
l><span =3D =20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'>If I wanted=20=
to change=20
out the wheel steering to a tiller is =3D
this
reasonable or does the installation look like a =3D
morphidite?</span></font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal =3D style=3D3D'margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25=
in'><font=20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; =20
color:black'>3)</span></font><font size=3D3D1 color=3D3Dbl=
ack><span =3D =20
style=3D3D'font-size: 7.0pt;color:black'> &=
amp;nbsp; =3D
</span></font><font size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DAria=
l><span =3D =20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'>Any question=
able=20
electrical to look for?</span></font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal =3D style=3D3D'margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25=
in'><font=20
size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; =20
color:black'>4)</span></font><font size=3D3D1 color=3D3Dbl=
ack><span =3D =20
style=3D3D'font-size: 7.0pt;color:black'> &=
amp;nbsp; =3D
</span></font><font size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DAria=
l><span =3D =20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:black'>Any concern=20=
on the=20
design as it relates to the keel to hull =3D
design
or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.</span></font></=
p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D3=
D2 =3D color=3D3Dblack =20
face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Aria=
l;color:black'> </span></f=3D =20
ont></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D3=
D2 =3D color=3D3Dblack =20
face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Aria=
l;color:black'> </span></f=3D =20
ont></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D3=
D2 =3D color=3D3Dblack =20
face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Aria=
l;color:black'>I=20
live
in the Chicago area</span></font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D3=
D2 =3D color=3D3Dblack =20
face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Aria=
l;color:black'>Thanks
for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look
for”</span></font></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D3=
D2 =3D color=3D3Dblack =20
face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Aria=
l;color:black'> </span></f=3D =20
ont></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D3=
D2 =3D color=3D3Dblack =20
face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Aria=
l;color:black'>Bob</span></font=3D =20
></p>
<p class=3D3DMsoNormal style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3D3=
D2 =3D color=3D3Dblack =20
face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Aria=
l;color:black'> &nbs=3D
p; &=
;nbsp;
</span></font></p>
<p style=3D3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3D3 face=3D3D"Times Ne=
w =3D Roman"><span =20
style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<!--[object_id=3D3D#weberstephen.com#]--></span></font><=
;font size=3D3D2 =3D =20
color=3D3Dblue face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:Arial;color:blue'>_________________=3D
____________________________________________________________<br>
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:<br>
This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for<br>
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may<br&g=
t;
contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from<br&g=
t;
disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail =3D
message<br>
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible<br>=
;
for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are =3D
hereby<br>
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this<br>
communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in =3D
error,<br>
please notify us immediately by e-mail at </span></font><a h=
ref=3D3D"mailto:=
legal@weberstephen.com"><font=20
size=3D3D2 face=3D3DArial><span style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Arial'>legal@weberstephen.=
com</span=3D =20
></font></a><br>
<font size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblue face=3D3DArial><span =3D style=3D3=
D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: =20
Arial;color:blue'>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank =3D
you.</span></font></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>
------=3D_NextPart_000_0037_01C628E1.42DE37D0--
--__--__--
Message: 2
From: fwitt1@comcast.net
To: frers-list@lists.frers=
33.com
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:32:55 +0000
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs
Reply-To: frers-list@lists=
.frers33.com
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15346_1139002375_0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Allen,
My yard had to drop the keel last year because of a grounding that looked li=
ke=20
it kicked the keel off to port by about 5 degrees. Additionally I had a crac=
k in=20
the hull just forward of where the leading edge of the keel joins the hull.=20=
They=20
put the hull up on jack stands and they said it normally takes about 5 hour=
s of=20
wailing on the top of the keel bolts with a sledge hammer to loosen it. In m=
y=20
case they took three wacks and it dropped right off. So much for 5200.=20
Frank Wittosch
Pepperke 2.0=20
-------------- Original message --------------=20
From: frers-list-r=
equest@lists.frers33.com=20
> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to=20
> frers-list@lists.=
frers33.com=20
>=20
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit=20
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list=20
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to=20
> frers-lis=
t-request@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> You can reach the person managing the list at=20
> frers-list-=
admin@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific=
=20
> than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."=20
>=20
>=20
> Today's Topics:=20
>=20
> 1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV=
SEA 01)=20
> 2. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV=
SEA 01)=20
>=20
> -- __--__-- =20
>=20
> Message: 1=20
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:08:37 -0500=20
> From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"=20
> To:=20
> Reply-To: frers-l=
ist@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94=20
> Content-Type: text/plain;=20
> charset=3D"iso-8859-1"=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
>=20
> Bob,=20
> =3D20=20
> My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer wate=
r =3D=20
> getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat t=
here =3D=20
> was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would=20=
=3D=20
> suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these=20=
=3D=20
> discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the ke=
el =3D=20
> like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping ou=
t. =3D=20
> That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the kee=
l and =3D=20
> hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year=20=
is =3D=20
> to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it=20=
with =3D=20
> 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then=
=3D=20
> next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel=
by =3D=20
> about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them=20=
a =3D=20
> couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull=
=3D=20
> just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the=20=
keel. =3D=20
> Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in t=
he =3D=20
> lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel=20=
up =3D=20
> being the 5200.=20
> =3D20=20
> If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.=20
> =3D20=20
> Thanks,=20
> Frank Albert=20
> =3D20=20
> =3D20=20
> =3D20=20
> -----Original Message-----=20
> From: frers=
-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> [mailt=
o:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward=20
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03=20
> To: frers-list@li=
sts.frers33.com=20
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> =3D20=20
> Bob=20
> =3D20=20
> I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay.=20=
I've =3D=20
> read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of=20=
=3D=20
> things to add, based on my experience:=20
> =3D20=20
> The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the=
=3D=20
> stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which=
the =3D=20
> keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't kn=
ow =3D=20
> for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some=
may =3D=20
> not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a=20=
=3D=20
> potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at=
the =3D=20
> hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contri=
bute =3D=20
> to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the b=
ilge: =3D=20
> the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and h=
ull, =3D=20
> but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear=
in =3D=20
> the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and=
=3D=20
> that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at t=
he =3D=20
> hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other=20=
=3D=20
> thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on=20=
at =3D=20
> least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the=
=3D=20
> bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the ke=
el =3D=20
> bolts.=20
> =3D20=20
> Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail=20=
and =3D=20
> race.=20
> =3D20=20
> Allan M. Heyward, Jr.=20
> COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.=20
> 804-747-4500=20
> =3D20=20
> -----Original Message-----=20
> From: frers=
-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> [mailto:fre=
rs-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert=20
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM=20
> To: frers-list@li=
sts.frers33.com=20
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> =3D20=20
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.=20
> =3D20=20
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in=20=
=3D=20
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these b=
oats?=20
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =3D=20
> this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?=20
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?=20
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =3D=20
> design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.=20
> =3D20=20
> =3D20=20
> I live in the Chicago area=20
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to l=
ook =3D=20
> for"=20
> =3D20=20
> Bob=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> ___________________________________________________________________=
______=3D=20
> ____=20
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:=20
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for=20
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and ma=
y=20
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt fro=
m=20
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail messa=
ge=20
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible=
=20
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are here=
by=20
> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this=20
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in er=
ror,=20
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at =3D=20
> legal@weberstephen.com<=
/A>=20
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94=20
> Content-Type: text/html;=20
> charset=3D"iso-8859-1"=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
>=20
> > xmlns:w=3D3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =3D=20
> xmlns=3D3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">=20
>=20
>=20
> > charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > style=3D3D'tab-interval:.5in'>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=3D=20
> b,
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=3D=20
> boat=20
> may have that new crack problem. =3D=20
> I=20
> noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =3D=20
> boat=20
> there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you w=
ould =3D=20
> suppose=20
> the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussio=
ns =3D=20
> someone=20
> mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to=20=
12 =3D=20
> inches)=20
> and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes"> =20
> That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the=20=
=3D=20
> keel and=20
> hull joint are right at that crack.> yes"> =20
> Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and=20=
=3D=20
> then grind=20
> out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol.&=
gt;=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =3D=20
> doesn't work=20
> then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the=
keel =3D=20
> by=20
> about 3 inches. Their =3D=20
> experience=20
> with this process has taught them a couple of things.>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun:=20
> yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull=20=
=3D=20
> just this=20
> way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.&=
gt;=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =3D=20
> want to=20
> let go. They've had boats =3D=20
> in the=20
> lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel=20=
up =3D=20
> being the=20
> 5200.
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=3D=20
> anyone=20
> has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =3D=20
> it.
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=3D=20
> anks,
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=3D=20
> ank=20
> Albert
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
pan=20
> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> > yes"> =20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message=
-----
> From:=20
> frers-list-=
admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> [ma=
ilto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D3D'font-weight:=
bold'>On=20
Behalf Of Allan Heyward
> Sent: Thursday, February =3D=20
> 02, 2006=20
> 12:03
> To: =3D=20
> frers-list@lists.=
frers33.com
> Subject: RE: =3D=20
> [frers-list]questions=20
> on a purchase of a frers 33
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>=
;
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3D3Db=
lack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dbla=
ck>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33=20=
that sails =3D=20
> and=20
> races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've read Frank's =3D=20
> response on your question=20
> 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =3D=20
> experience:> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'colo=
r:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dbla=
ck>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the=
transverse=20
=3D=20
> stringer=20
> leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading edge o=
f the =3D=20
> keel=20
> sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition into th=
e =3D=20
> hull.=20
> I don't know for certain if this will be true on all boats, =3D=20
> as I=20
> understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it ex=
ists,=20
> it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =3D=20
> edge=20
> of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that w=
ill =3D=20
> not only=20
> contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a pa=
th to =3D=20
> the=20
> bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between kee=
l and =3D=20
> hull,=20
> but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear=
in =3D=20
> the=20
> hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and=20=
=3D=20
> that you=20
> should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull.=20=
=3D=20
> The=20
> fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to=20=
=3D=20
> check=20
> is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one bo=
at =3D=20
> (mine)=20
> there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that c=
aused=20
> substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3D3=
Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dbla=
ck>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the bo=
at is strong=20
=3D=20
> as an=20
> ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3D3Dblack>&=
amp;gt;=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dbla=
ck>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =3D=20
> Jr.> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;=
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOP=
PER & =3D=20
> FEEHAN,=20
> P.C.> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:=20
> windowtext'>
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500>=20
color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowt=
ext'><=3D >=20
/p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dbla=
ck>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DTahoma>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original=20
> Message-----
> From:=20
> frers-list-=
admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> [mailto:fre=
rs-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'&a=
mp;gt;On=20
Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
> Sent: Wednesday, February =3D=20
> 01, 2006=20
> 7:02 AM
> To: =3D=20
> frers-list@lists.=
frers33.com
> Subject: =3D=20
> [frers-list]questions on=20
> a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D3D'color:=20
> black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D3D'font-size:12.=
0pt;color:black'>=20
> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-al=
t:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;color:black'>I=20
am=20
> currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3D3Dbl=
ack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;color:black'>=20
> ont>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'colo=
r:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> co=
lor=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial=
;=20
> color:black'>1)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>>=20=
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific c=
oring issues=20
=3D=20
> in=20
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these=20=
=3D=20
> boats?> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:bla=
ck;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> co=
lor=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial=
;=20
> color:black'>2)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>>=20=
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to=
a tiller is=20
=3D=20
> this=20
> reasonable or does the installation look like a =3D=20
> morphidite?> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'colo=
r:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> co=
lor=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial=
;=20
> color:black'>3)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>>=20=
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?>=
;=20
color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowt=
ext'><=3D >=20
/p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> co=
lor=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial=
;=20
> color:black'>4)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>>=20=
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the=20=
keel to hull=20
=3D=20
> design=20
> or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3D3Dbla=
ck>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;color:black'>=20
> ont>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'colo=
r:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;color:black'>=20
> ont>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'colo=
r:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;color:black'>I=20
live=20
> in the Chicago area> style=3D3D'color:black;=20
> mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;color:black'>Thanks=20
> for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look=20=
=3D=20
> for"> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black=
;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;color:black'>=20
> ont>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'colo=
r:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;color:black'>Bob>=20
>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-=
color-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;color:black'> =20
&nbs=3D=20
> p; =20
> > style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>&l=
t;=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D=20
> size=3D3D2>_________________________________________________=
_______________=3D=20
> _____________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products =3D=20
> Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or =3D=20
> entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is =3D=20
> privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable =3D=20
> law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended =3D=20
> recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the =3D=20
> message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any =3D=20
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is =3D=20
> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify =3D=20
> us immediately by e-mail at > href=3D3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com"&am=
p;gt;>=20
size=3D3D2>legal@weberste=
phen.com
> color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>and also indicate the sender's=20=
name. Thank =3D=20
> you.
>=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94--=20
>=20
> -- __--__-- =20
>=20
> Message: 2=20
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:14:30 -0500=20
> From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"=20
> To:=20
> Reply-To: frers-l=
ist@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6=20
> Content-Type: text/plain;=20
> charset=3D"iso-8859-1"=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
>=20
> Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if=20=
=3D=20
> anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14=20=
what =3D=20
> year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have bee=
n =3D=20
> built in the same year as mine.=20
> =3D20=20
> Thanks,=20
> Frank Albert=20
> =3D20=20
> -----Original Message-----=20
> From: frers=
-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> [mailt=
o:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis =3D=20
> X CIV SEA 01=20
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09=20
> To: frers-list@li=
sts.frers33.com=20
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> =3D20=20
> Bob,=20
> =3D20=20
> My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer wate=
r =3D=20
> getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat t=
here =3D=20
> was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would=20=
=3D=20
> suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these=20=
=3D=20
> discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the ke=
el =3D=20
> like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping ou=
t. =3D=20
> That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the kee=
l and =3D=20
> hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year=20=
is =3D=20
> to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it=20=
with =3D=20
> 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then=
=3D=20
> next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel=
by =3D=20
> about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them=20=
a =3D=20
> couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull=
=3D=20
> just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the=20=
keel. =3D=20
> Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in t=
he =3D=20
> lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel=20=
up =3D=20
> being the 5200.=20
> =3D20=20
> If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.=20
> =3D20=20
> Thanks,=20
> Frank Albert=20
> =3D20=20
> =3D20=20
> =3D20=20
> -----Original Message-----=20
> From: frers=
-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> [mailt=
o:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward=20
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03=20
> To: frers-list@li=
sts.frers33.com=20
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> =3D20=20
> Bob=20
> =3D20=20
> I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay.=20=
I've =3D=20
> read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of=20=
=3D=20
> things to add, based on my experience:=20
> =3D20=20
> The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the=
=3D=20
> stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which=
the =3D=20
> keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't kn=
ow =3D=20
> for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some=
may =3D=20
> not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a=20=
=3D=20
> potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at=
the =3D=20
> hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contri=
bute =3D=20
> to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the b=
ilge: =3D=20
> the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and h=
ull, =3D=20
> but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear=
in =3D=20
> the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and=
=3D=20
> that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at t=
he =3D=20
> hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other=20=
=3D=20
> thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on=20=
at =3D=20
> least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the=
=3D=20
> bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the ke=
el =3D=20
> bolts.=20
> =3D20=20
> Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail=20=
and =3D=20
> race.=20
> =3D20=20
> Allan M. Heyward, Jr.=20
> COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.=20
> 804-747-4500=20
> =3D20=20
> -----Original Message-----=20
> From: frers=
-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> [mailto:fre=
rs-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert=20
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM=20
> To: frers-list@li=
sts.frers33.com=20
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> =3D20=20
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.=20
> =3D20=20
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in=20=
=3D=20
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these b=
oats?=20
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =3D=20
> this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?=20
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?=20
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =3D=20
> design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.=20
> =3D20=20
> =3D20=20
> I live in the Chicago area=20
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to l=
ook =3D=20
> for"=20
> =3D20=20
> Bob=20
> =3D20=20
>=20
> ___________________________________________________________________=
______=3D=20
> ____=20
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:=20
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for=20
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and ma=
y=20
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt fro=
m=20
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail messa=
ge=20
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible=
=20
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are here=
by=20
> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this=20
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in er=
ror,=20
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at =3D=20
> legal@weberstephen.com<=
/A>=20
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6=20
> Content-Type: text/html;=20
> charset=3D"iso-8859-1"=20
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
>=20
> > xmlns:w=3D3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =3D=20
> xmlns=3D3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">=20
>=20
>=20
> > charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > style=3D3D'tab-interval:.5in'>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3D"#993366"=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi=
-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=20
> Arial'>Alright big question is where all these boats made th=
e same and =3D=20
> if=20
> anyone knows of a different version.> yes"> =20
> Allen your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built?>=
;=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Wild thing was number 37 and =3D=20
> may have=20
> been built in the same year as mine.
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3D"#993366"=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi=
-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=20
> Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3D"#993366"=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi=
-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=20
> Arial'>Thanks,
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3D"#993366"=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi=
-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=20
> Arial'>Frank Albert
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3D"#993366"=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi=
-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=20
> Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message=
-----
> From:=20
> frers-list-=
admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> [ma=
ilto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D3D'font-weight:=
bold'>On=20
Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV =3D=20
> SEA 01
> Sent: Friday, February =3D=20
> 03, 2006=20
> 7:09
> To: =3D=20
> frers-list@lists.=
frers33.com
> Subject: RE: =3D=20
> [frers-list]questions=20
> on a purchase of a frers 33
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>=
;
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=3D=20
> b,
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=3D=20
> boat=20
> may have that new crack problem. =3D=20
> I=20
> noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =3D=20
> boat=20
> there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you w=
ould =3D=20
> suppose=20
> the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussio=
ns =3D=20
> someone=20
> mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to=20=
12 =3D=20
> inches)=20
> and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes"> =20
> That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the=20=
=3D=20
> keel and=20
> hull joint are right at that crack.> yes"> =20
> Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and=20=
=3D=20
> then=20
> grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using =3D=20
> alcohol.> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said=20=
if that =3D=20
> doesn't work=20
> then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the=
keel =3D=20
> by=20
> about 3 inches. Their =3D=20
> experience=20
> with this process has taught them a couple of things.>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun:=20
> yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull=20=
=3D=20
> just this=20
> way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.&=
gt;=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =3D=20
> want to=20
> let go. They've had boats =3D=20
> in the=20
> lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel=20=
up =3D=20
> being the=20
> 5200.
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=3D=20
> anyone=20
> has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =3D=20
> it.
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=3D=20
> anks,
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=3D=20
> ank=20
> Albert
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
pan=20
> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =3D=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>>=20
[if =3D=20
> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message=
-----
> From: =3D=20
> frers-list-=
admin@lists.frers33.com=20
> [ma=
ilto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D3D'font-weight:=
bold'>On=20
> Behalf Of Allan Heyward
> Sent: Thursday, February =3D=20
> 02, 2006=20
> 12:03
> To: =3D=20
> frers-list@lists.=
frers33.com
> Subject: RE: =3D=20
> [frers-list]questions=20
> on a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-colo=
r-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> Roman">> style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'&=
;gt;>=20
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>> color=3D3Dblack>=
>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3D3Db=
lack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dbla=
ck>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33=20=
that sails =3D=20
> and=20
> races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've read Frank's =3D=20
> response on your question=20
> 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =3D=20
> experience:> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'colo=
r:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dbla=
ck>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the=
transverse=20
> stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leadi=
ng =3D=20
> edge of=20
> the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transitio=
n =3D=20
> into the=20
> hull. I don't know for certain if this will be true on all =3D=20
> boats, as I=20
> understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it ex=
ists,=20
> it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =3D=20
> edge=20
> of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that w=
ill =3D=20
> not only=20
> contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a pa=
th to =3D=20
> the=20
> bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between kee=
l and =3D=20
> hull,=20
> but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear=
in =3D=20
> the=20
> hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and=20=
=3D=20
> that you=20
> should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull.=20=
=3D=20
> The=20
> fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to=20=
=3D=20
> check=20
> is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one bo=
at =3D=20
> (mine)=20
> there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that c=
aused=20
> substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3D3=
Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dbla=
ck>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the bo=
at is strong=20
=3D=20
> as an=20
> ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3D3Dblack>&=
amp;gt;=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dbla=
ck>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =3D=20
> Jr.> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;=
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOP=
PER & =3D=20
> FEEHAN,=20
> P.C.> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:=20
> windowtext'>
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500>=20
color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowt=
ext'><=3D >=20
/p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dbla=
ck>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DTahoma>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original=20
> Message-----
> From:=20
> frers-list-=
admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> [mailto:fre=
rs-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'&a=
mp;gt;On=20
Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
> Sent: Wednesday, February =3D=20
> 01, 2006=20
> 7:02 AM
> To: =3D=20
> frers-list@lists.=
frers33.com
> Subject: =3D=20
> [frers-list]questions on=20
> a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D3D'color:=20
> black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D3D'font-size:12.=
0pt;color:black'>=20
> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-al=
t:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;color:black'>I=20
am=20
> currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3D3Dbl=
ack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;color:black'>=20
> ont>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'colo=
r:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> co=
lor=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial=
;=20
> color:black'>1)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>>=20=
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific c=
oring issues=20
=3D=20
> in=20
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these=20=
=3D=20
> boats?> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:bla=
ck;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> co=
lor=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial=
;=20
> color:black'>2)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>>=20=
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to=
a tiller is=20
=3D=20
> this reasonable=20
> or does the installation look like a morphidite?> color=3D3D=
black>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> co=
lor=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial=
;=20
> color:black'>3)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>>=20=
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?>=
;=20
color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowt=
ext'><=3D >=20
/p>=20
>=20
>=20
> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> co=
lor=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial=
;=20
> color:black'>4)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>>=20=
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the=20=
keel to hull=20
=3D=20
> design=20
> or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3D3Dbla=
ck>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D > /p&am=
p;gt;=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;color:black'>=20
> ont>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'colo=
r:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;color:black'>=20
> ont>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'colo=
r:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;color:black'>I=20
live=20
> in the Chicago area> style=3D3D'color:black;=20
> mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;color:black'>Thanks=20
> for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look=20=
=3D=20
> for"> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black=
;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;color:black'>=20
> ont>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'colo=
r:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;color:black'>Bob>=20
>> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-=
color-alt:windowtext'><=3D =20
> /p>=20
>=20
>=20
> color=3D3Dblack=20
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:Arial;color:black'> =20
&nbs=3D=20
> p; =20
> > style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>&l=
t;=3D > /p>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D=20
> size=3D3D2>_________________________________________________=
_______________=3D=20
> _____________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
This Weber-Stephen Products =3D=20
> Company e-mail is intended only for
the use of the individual or =3D=20
> entity to which it is addressed and may
contain information that is =3D=20
> privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable =3D=20
> law. If the reader of this e-mail message
is not the intended =3D=20
> recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
for delivery of the =3D=20
> message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any =3D=20
> dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is =3D=20
> prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify =3D=20
> us immediately by e-mail at > href=3D3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com"&am=
p;gt;>=20
size=3D3D2>legal@weberste=
phen.com
> color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>and also indicate the sender's=20=
name. Thank =3D=20
> you.
>=20
>=20
> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6--=20
>=20
>=20
> -- __--__-- =20
>=20
> _______________________________________________=20
> frers-list mailing list=20
> frers-list@lists.=
frers33.com=20
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list=20
>=20
>=20
> End of frers-list Digest=20
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_15346_1139002375_0
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
<html><body>
<DIV>Allen,</DIV>
<DIV>My yard had to drop the keel last year because of a grounding tha=
t looked=20
like it kicked the keel off to port by about 5 degrees. Additionally I had a=
=20
crack in the hull just forward of where the leading edge of the keel joins t=
he=20
hull. They put the hull up on jack stands and th=
ey said it=20
normally takes about 5 hours of wailing on the top of the keel bolts&nbs=
p;with a=20
sledge hammer to loosen it. In my case they took three wacks and it dropped=20
right off. So much for 5200. </DIV>
<DIV>Frank Wittosch</DIV>
<DIV>Pepperke 2.0 </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1=
010ff 2px=20
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From:=20
frers-list-request=
@lists.frers33.com <BR><BR>> Send frers-list mailing=20=
list=20
submissions to <BR>> frers-list@lists.frers33.com <BR>> <BR>&g=
t; To=20
subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit <BR>>=20
http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list <BR>&=
;gt; or, via email,=20
send a message with subject or body 'help' to <BR>> frers-list-request@lists.frer=
s33.com=20
<BR>> <BR>> You can reach the person managing the=20=
list at <BR>>=20
frers-list-admin@lis=
ts.frers33.com <BR>> <BR>> When replying, plea=
se edit=20
your Subject line so it is more specific <BR>> than "Re: Conten=
ts of=20
frers-list digest..." <BR>> <BR>> <BR>&g=
t; Today's Topics: <BR>>=20
<BR>> 1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Fra=
ncis X CIV SEA=20
01) <BR>> 2. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert,=
Francis X CI
V SEA 01) <BR>> <BR>> -- __--__-- <BR>&=
;gt; <BR>> Message: 1 <BR>>=20
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 <BR>&am=
p;gt; Date:=20
Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:08:37 -0500 <BR>> From: "Albert, Francis X C=
IV SEA 01"=20
<FRANCIS.ALBERT@NAVY.MIL=
><BR>> To: <FRERS-LIST@LISTS.FRERS33.COM><BR>>=20
Reply-To: frers-list@lists=
.frers33.com <BR>> <BR>> This is a multi-part=20
message in MIME format. <BR>> <BR>> ------_=3D_Nex=
tPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94=20
<BR>> Content-Type: text/plain; <BR>> charset=3D"i=
so-8859-1" <BR>>=20
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <BR>> <BR>&am=
p;gt; Bob, <BR>> =3D20=20
<BR>> My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last s=
ummer water =3D=20
<BR>> getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled=20=
the boat there=20
=3D <BR>> was a crack right at the top of the keel right at whe=
re you would =3D=20
<BR>> suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one=20=
of these =3D=20
<BR>> discussions someone mentioned the actu
al hull is lower, down the keel =3D <BR>> like about 10 to 12=20=
inches) and=20
water from the bilge was seeping out. =3D <BR>> That lower hull=
thing seems=20
pretty strange and my yard says the keel and =3D <BR>> hull joi=
nt are right at=20
that crack. Their suggestion for this year is =3D <BR>> to snug=
up the keel=20
bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with =3D <BR>> 5=
200, fairing it=20
using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then =3D <BR>> ne=
xt year they=20
will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by =3D <BR>&g=
t; about 3=20
inches. Their experience with this process has taught them a =3D <BR>&=
amp;gt; couple=20
of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =3D <BR>&=
amp;gt; just=20
this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel. =3D <=
BR>>=20
Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the =3D &l=
t;BR>>=20
lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up =3D &l=
t;BR>>=20
being the 5200. <BR>> =3D20 <BR>> If anyone has
had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it. <BR>>=20=
=3D20 <BR>>=20
Thanks, <BR>> Frank Albert <BR>> =3D20 <BR>&=
amp;gt; =3D20 <BR>> =3D20 <BR>>=20
-----Original Message----- <BR>> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
<BR>> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heywar=
d=20
<BR>> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03 <BR>>=
; To:=20
frers-list@lists.frers33.c=
om <BR>> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a=20
purchase of a frers 33 <BR>> =3D20 <BR>> Bob <B=
R>> =3D20 <BR>> I have a=20
1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've =3D <BR>=
;> read=20
Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of =3D <BR>=
> things=20
to add, based on my experience: <BR>> =3D20 <BR>>=20=
The construction of the=20
transverse stringer leaves a void below the =3D <BR>> stringer=20=
that extends to=20
the leading edge of the keel sump to which the =3D <BR>> keel i=
s bolted at the=20
point of transition into the hull. I don't know =3D <BR>> fo
r certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may =3D=20
<BR>> not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it c=
reates a =3D=20
<BR>> potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of t=
he keel at the=20
=3D <BR>> hull shows separation you will get a leak that will n=
ot only=20
contribute =3D <BR>> to deterioration of the wood stringer, but=
provides a path=20
to the bilge: =3D <BR>> the reason is that you are not seeing s=
eparation=20
between keel and hull, =3D <BR>> but a crack in the sump which,=
over time and=20
load can create a tear in =3D <BR>> the hull. This is one reaso=
n a fix from the=20
inside is desirable and =3D <BR>> that you should look carefull=
y at the leading=20
edge of the keel at the =3D <BR>> hull. The fix is not as traum=
atic as the=20
problem sounds. The other =3D <BR>> thing to check is the keel=20=
bolts for deep=20
crevice corrosion, as on at =3D <BR>> least one boat (mine) the=
re was a=20
mismatch between stainless in the =3D <BR>> bolts and nuts tha
t caused substantial erosion of several of the keel =3D <BR>>=20=
bolts. <BR>>=20
=3D20 <BR>> Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a=20=
delight to sail=20
and =3D <BR>> race. <BR>> =3D20 <BR>>=
Allan M. Heyward, Jr. <BR>> COOK,=20
HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C. <BR>> 804-747-4500=20=
<BR>> =3D20=20
<BR>> -----Original Message----- <BR>> From: frers-list-admin@lists.fr=
ers33.com=20
=3D <BR>> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen,=20
Robert <BR>> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM <BR&=
gt;> To:=20
frers-list@lists.frers33.c=
om <BR>> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a=20
purchase of a frers 33 <BR>> =3D20 <BR>> I am curr=
ently interested in=20
purchasing a frers 33. <BR>> =3D20 <BR>> 1) Can an=
yone update me as to where=20
any specific coring issues in =3D <BR>> hull or the deck area t=
hat might be=20
consistent with most of these boats? <BR>> 2) If I wanted to ch=
ange out the=20
wheel steering to a tiller is =3D <BR>> this reasonabl
e or does the installation look like a morphidite? <BR>> 3) An=
y questionable=20
electrical to look for? <BR>> 4) Any concern on the design as i=
t relates to=20
the keel to hull =3D <BR>> design or attachment. Separate from=20=
a bad grounding.=20
<BR>> =3D20 <BR>> =3D20 <BR>> I live=20=
in the Chicago area <BR>> Thanks=20
for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =3D <BR&g=
t;> for"=20
<BR>> =3D20 <BR>> Bob <BR>> =3D20 <=
;BR>> <BR>> _________________________________________=
________________________________=3D=20
<BR>> ____ <BR>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: <BR>&=
amp;gt; This Weber-Stephen=20
Products Company e-mail is intended only for <BR>> the use of t=
he individual=20
or entity to which it is addressed and may <BR>> contain inform=
ation that is=20
privileged, confidential and exempt from <BR>> disclosure under=
applicable=20
law. If the reader of this e-mail message <BR>> is not the inte=
nded=20
recipient, or the employee or agent responsible <BR>> for deliv=
ery of the=20
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby <BR>> notifi=
ed that any=20
dissemination, distribution or copying of this <BR>> communicat=
ion is=20
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, <BR>> pl=
ease notify us=20
immediately by e-mail at =3D <BR>> <mailto:legal@weberstephen.com=
>legal@weberstephen.com=20
<BR>> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. <BR>=
;> <BR>>=20
------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94 <BR>> Content-Type: t=
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<META content=3D3DWord.Document name=3D3DProgId><BR>>=20
<META content=3D'3D"Microsoft' name=3D3DGenerator 9? Word><BR>&a=
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<DIV class=3D3DSection1><BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=3D=20
<BR>> b,<?xml:namespace prefix =3D o ns =3D "3D"urn:schemas-=
microsoft-com:office:office""=20
/><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>=
;<BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!=
=3D =20
<BR>> [if =3D <BR>> !supportEmptyParas]>&am=
p;nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT=
></SPAN></P><BR>>=20
<BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=3D=20
<BR>> boat <BR>> may have that new crack problem.&=
lt;SPAN yes?> =3D=20
<BR>> </SPAN>I <BR>> noticed last summer wat=
er getting in to the bilge=20
area.<SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&n=
bsp; </SPAN>This fall when=20
they hauled the =3D <BR>> boat <BR>> there was a c=
rack right at the top of=20
the keel right at where you would =3D <BR>> suppose <BR>&=
amp;gt; the keel to hull=20
joint would be (however, in one of these discussions =3D <BR>>=20=
someone <BR>>=20
mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 =3D &l=
t;BR>>=20
inches) <BR>> and water from the bilge was seeping out.<SPAN=
=3D"<BR">>=20
yes"> <BR>> </SPAN>That lower hull thing=
seems pretty strange and my=20
yard says the =3D <BR>> keel and <BR>> hull joint=20=
are right at that=20
crack.<SPAN =3D" <BR">> yes"> <BR>&=
amp;gt; </SPAN>Their suggestion for=20
this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =3D <BR>> then grind=
<BR>> out=20
the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol.<SPAN <BR>=
;>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>They=20=
said if that =3D <BR>>=20
doesn't work <BR>> then next year they will remove the bolts an=
d lift the=20
boat off the keel =3D <BR>> by <BR>> about 3 inche=
s.<SPAN yes?> =20
</SPAN>Their =3D <BR>> experience <BR>> with=
this process has taught them a=20
couple of things.<SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: &=
lt;BR>>=20
yes"> </SPAN>First most boats had the keels joined to=
the hull =3D=20
<BR>> just this <BR>> way with a ton of 5200 sprea=
d over the entire top of=20
the keel.<SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&a=
mp;nbsp; </SPAN>Second,=20
5200 really does not =3D <BR>> want to <BR>> let g=
o.<SPAN yes?> =20
</SPAN>They've had boats =3D <BR>> in the <BR>&=
gt; lift like this for four=20
hours with the o
nly thing holding the keel up =3D <BR>> being the <BR>&a=
mp;gt;=20
5200.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>=
;<BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!=
=3D =20
<BR>> [if =3D <BR>> !supportEmptyParas]>&am=
p;nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT=
></SPAN></P><BR>>=20
<BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=3D=20
<BR>> anyone <BR>> has had a similar experience I'=
d like to hear about =3D=20
<BR>> it.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></=
SPAN></P><BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!=
=3D =20
<BR>> [if =3D <BR>> !supportEmptyParas]>&am=
p;nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT=
></SPAN></P><BR>>=20
<BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=3D=20
<BR>> anks,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><=
;/SPAN></P><BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=3D=20
<BR>> ank <BR>> Albert<o:p></o:p></=
SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P><BR>>=20
<BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!=
=3D =20
<BR>> [if =3D <BR>> !supportEmptyParas]>&am=
p;nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT=
></SPAN></P><BR>>=20
<BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><S=
=3D=20
<BR>> pan <BR>> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"&=
gt; </SPAN><SPAN=20
=3D"<BR">> yes"> <BR>> </SPAN&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>&=
lt;BR>>=20
<BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!=
=3D =20
<BR>> [if =3D <BR>> !supportEmptyParas]>&am=
p;nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT=
></SPAN></P><BR>>=20
<BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DTahoma color=3D#3d0a00 size=
=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:bla=
ck'>-----Original=20
Message-----<BR><BR>> <B><SPAN>From:</SPAN=
></B> <BR>> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
=3D <BR>> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]<B><=
SPAN <BR>>=20
style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Alla=
n Heyward<BR><BR>>=20
<B><SPAN>Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, February =3D <=
;BR>> 02, 2006 <BR>>=20
12:03<BR><BR>> <B><SPAN>To:</SPAN></=
B> =3D <BR>> frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR><BR>>=20
<B><SPAN>Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: =3D <BR>&=
gt; [frers-list]questions <BR>> on a=20
purchase of a frers 33</SPAN></FONT></P><BR>>=
<BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D'3D"Times' size=3D3 Roman? New&=
gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 12.0pt'><![if =3D <BR=
>> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>&l=
t;o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P><BR>>=20
<BR>> <P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DArial co=
lor=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN=20
=3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 10.0pt;font=
-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN <BR>> s=
tyle=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&g=
t;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
color=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font=
-size: <BR>>=20
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </SPAN></FONT=
><FONT =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dblack><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'color:black;ms=
o-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT=
><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
color=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font=
-size: <BR>>=20
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sail=
s =3D=20
<BR>> and <BR>> races on the Chesapeake Bay.&n=
bsp; I've read Frank's =3D=20
<BR>> response on your question <BR>> 4 and only h=
ave a couple of things=20
to add, based on my =3D <BR>> experience:</SPAN></FONT=
><FONT <BR>>=20
color=3D3Dblack><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'color:bla=
ck;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN><=
/FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
color=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font=
-size: <BR>>=20
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </SPAN></FONT=
><FONT =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dblack><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'color:black;ms=
o-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT=
><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
color=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font=
-size: <BR>>=20
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the transver=
se =3D=20
<BR>> stringer <BR>> leaves a void below the strin=
ger that extends to the=20
leading edge of the =3D <BR>> keel <BR>> sump to w=
hich the keel is bolted at=20
the point of transition into the =3D <BR>> hull. <BR>&=
;gt; I don't know=20
for certain if this will be true on all boats, =3D <BR>> as I &=
lt;BR>>=20
understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists,=20
<BR>> it creates a potential structural weak point.&a=
mp;nbsp; If the=20
leading =3D <BR>> edge <BR>> of the keel at the hu=
ll shows separation you=20
will get a leak that will =3D <BR>> not only <BR>>=
contribute to=20
deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to =3D <BR>&am=
p;gt; the=20
<BR>> bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation b=
etween keel=20
and =3D <BR>> hull, <BR>> but a crack in the su=
mp which, over time and=20
load can create a tear in =3D <BR>> the <BR>> hull=
. This is one reason=20
a fix from the inside is desirable and =3D <BR>> that you <B=
R>> should look=20
carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. =3D <BR&=
gt;> The=20
<BR>> fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. =20=
The other thing to=20
=3D <BR>> check <BR>> is the keel bolts for deep c=
revice corrosion, as on at=20
least one boat =3D <BR>> (mine) <BR>> there was a=20=
mismatch between stainless=20
in the bolts and nuts that caused <BR>> substantial erosion of=20=
several of the=20
keel bolts.</SPAN></FONT><FONT <BR>> color=3D3Db=
lack><SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&=
gt;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
color=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font=
-size: <BR>>=20
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </SPAN></FONT=
><FONT =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dblack><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'color:black;ms=
o-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT=
><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
color=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font=
-size: <BR>>=20
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is str=
ong =3D=20
<BR>> as an <BR>> ox and a delight to sail and rac=
e.</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN <BR>> s=
tyle=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&g=
t;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
color=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font=
-size: <BR>>=20
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </SPAN></FONT=
><FONT =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dblack><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'color:black;ms=
o-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT=
><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoAutoSig><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
color=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font=
-size: <BR>>=20
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =3D <BR>=
>=20
Jr.</SPAN></FONT><FONT <BR>> color=3D3Dblack&=
;gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&=
gt;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoAutoSig><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
color=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font=
-size: <BR>>=20
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER &=
amp; =3D=20
<BR>> FEEHAN, <BR>> P.C.</SPAN></FONT>=
<FONT color=3D#3d0a00><SPAN=20
=3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt: <BR>&=
;gt; windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><=
;/P><BR>>=20
<BR>> <P class=3D3DMsoAutoSig><FONT face=3D3DArial c=
olor=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN=20
=3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 10.0pt;font=
-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500</SPAN></FONT><F=
ONT=20
<BR>> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN =3D"<BR">> s=
tyle=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&g=
t;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DArial=20
color=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font=
-size: <BR>>=20
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </SPAN></FONT=
><FONT =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dblack><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'color:black;ms=
o-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT=
><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dblack <BR>> face=3D3DTahoma&a=
mp;gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Orig=
inal=20
<BR>> Message-----<BR><BR>> <B><SPA=
N>From:</SPAN></B> <BR>>=20
frers-list-admin@lis=
ts.frers33.com =3D <BR>> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]=20
<B><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>On=20=
Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Stephen,=20
Robert<BR><BR>> <B><SPAN>Sent:</SPAN>&l=
t;/B> Wednesday, February =3D <BR>> 01,=20
2006 <BR>> 7:02 AM<BR><BR>> <B><SPA=
N>To:</SPAN></B> =3D <BR>>=20
frers-list@lists.frers33.c=
om<BR><BR>> <B><SPAN>Subject:</SPAN>=
;</B> =3D <BR>>=20
[frers-list]questions on <BR>> a purchase of a frers 33</SPA=
N></FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#3d0a00><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'color: <BR=
>> black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p>&=
lt;/SPAN></FONT></P><BR>>=20
<BR>> <P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 =3D"<=
BR">> color=3D3Dblack <BR>>=20
face=3D3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3=
D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </SPAN></FONT>&=
lt;FONT=20
<BR>> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN =3D"<BR">> s=
tyle=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&g=
t;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dblack <BR>> face=3D3DArial&am=
p;gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I am <B=
R>>=20
currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.</SPAN></FONT><=
FONT =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dblack><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'color:black;ms=
o-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT=
><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dblack <BR>> face=3D3DArial&am=
p;gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> =
</SPAN></F=3D=20
<BR>> ont><FONT <BR>> color=3D3Dblack&am=
p;gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&=
gt;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'><FONT size=3D3 &l=
t;BR>>=20
color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=
=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
<BR>> color:black'>1)</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20=
color=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN=20
=3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 7.0pt;color=
:black'> =20
=3D <BR>> </SPAN></FONT><FONT <BR>>=
size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
<BR>> color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any=20=
specific coring=20
issues =3D <BR>> in <BR>> hull or the deck area th=
at might be consistent=20
with most of these =3D <BR>> boats?</SPAN></FONT>&l=
t;FONT <BR>>=20
color=3D3Dblack><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'color:bla=
ck;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN><=
/FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'><FONT size=3D3 &l=
t;BR>>=20
color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=
=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
<BR>> color:black'>2)</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20=
color=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN=20
=3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 7.0pt;color=
:black'> =20
=3D <BR>> </SPAN></FONT><FONT <BR>>=
size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
<BR>> color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel s=
teering to a=20
tiller is =3D <BR>> this <BR>> reasonable or does=20=
the installation look like=20
a =3D <BR>> morphidite?</SPAN></FONT><FONT <B=
R>> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN=20
=3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'&=
;gt;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'><FONT size=3D3 &l=
t;BR>>=20
color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=
=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
<BR>> color:black'>3)</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20=
color=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN=20
=3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 7.0pt;color=
:black'> =20
=3D <BR>> </SPAN></FONT><FONT <BR>>=
size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
<BR>> color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look=20
for?</SPAN></FONT><FONT <BR>> color=3D3Dblack&am=
p;gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&=
gt;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'><FONT size=3D3 &l=
t;BR>>=20
color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=
=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
<BR>> color:black'>4)</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20=
color=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN=20
=3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 7.0pt;color=
:black'> =20
=3D <BR>> </SPAN></FONT><FONT <BR>>=
size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
<BR>> color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relat=
es to the keel to=20
hull =3D <BR>> design <BR>> or attachment. Separat=
e from a bad=20
grounding.</SPAN></FONT><FONT =3D"<BR">> color=
=3D3Dblack><SPAN <BR>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&=
gt;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dblack <BR>> face=3D3DArial&am=
p;gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> =
</SPAN></F=3D=20
<BR>> ont><FONT <BR>> color=3D3Dblack&am=
p;gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&=
gt;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dblack <BR>> face=3D3DArial&am=
p;gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> =
</SPAN></F=3D=20
<BR>> ont><FONT <BR>> color=3D3Dblack&am=
p;gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&=
gt;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dblack <BR>> face=3D3DArial&am=
p;gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I live <=
;BR>> in=20
the Chicago area</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D#3d0a00><SP=
AN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'color:black; <BR>> mso-color-alt:windowtext'>=
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P><BR>>=
;=20
<BR>> <P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 =3D"<=
BR">> color=3D3Dblack <BR>>=20
face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks=20
<BR>> for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what t=
o look =3D=20
<BR>> for"</SPAN></FONT><FONT <BR>>=
color=3D3Dblack><SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&=
gt;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dblack <BR>> face=3D3DArial&am=
p;gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> =
</SPAN></F=3D=20
<BR>> ont><FONT <BR>> color=3D3Dblack&am=
p;gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&=
gt;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dblack <BR>> face=3D3DArial&am=
p;gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Bob</SP=
AN></FONT=3D=20
<BR>> ><FONT <BR>> color=3D3Dblack&g=
t;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&=
gt;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> <P=20=
class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dblack <BR>> face=3D3DArial&am=
p;gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> =
&nbs=3D=20
<BR>> p; &=
nbsp; <BR>>=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D#3d0a00><SPAN =3D"<BR"&g=
t;> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p&g=
t;</o:p></SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> </P&g=
t;</DIV><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <B=
R>>=20
<!--[object_id=3D3D#weberstephen.com#]--> <P align=3D3Dleft><=
;BR><FONT =3D"<BR">>=20
face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D <BR>> size=3D3D2>__=
______________________________________________________________=3D=20
<BR>> _____________<BR>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:<BR>Thi=
s Weber-Stephen Products =3D=20
<BR>> Company e-mail is intended only for<BR>the use of t=
he individual or =3D=20
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e received this e-mail=20
in error,<BR>please notify =3D <BR>> us immediately by e-=
mail at </FONT><A=20
=3D"<BR">> href=3D3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com"><FONT f=20=
ace=3D3DArial=20
=3D"<BR">> size=3D3D2>legal@weberstephen.com</FONT></A><BR><FON=
T face=3D3DArial=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>and also indicat=
e the sender's name.=20
Thank =3D <BR>> you.</FONT></P><BR>> &=
lt;BR>> <BR>> ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C=
94--=20
<BR>> <BR>> -- __--__-- <BR>> <BR=
>> Message: 2 <BR>> Subject:=20
RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 <BR>> Dat=
e: Fri, 3 Feb=20
2006 15:14:30 -0500 <BR>> From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"=20
<FRANCIS.ALBERT@NAVY.MIL=
><BR>> To: <FRERS-LIST@LISTS.FRERS33.COM><BR>>=20
Reply-To: frers-list@lists=
.frers33.com <BR>> <BR>> This is a multi-part=20
message in MIME format. <BR>> <BR>> ------_=3D_Nex=
tPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6=20
<BR>> Content-Type: text/plain; <BR>> charset=3D"i=
so-8859-1" <BR>>=20
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <BR>> <BR>&am=
p;gt; Alright big=20
question is where all these boats made the same and if =3D <BR>>=
; anyone knows=20
of a different version. Allen y our boat was number 14 what =3D <BR>=
> year=20
was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been =3D <BR&g=
t;> built=20
in the same year as mine. <BR>> =3D20 <BR>> Thanks=
, <BR>> Frank Albert=20
<BR>> =3D20 <BR>> -----Original Message----- <B=
R>> From:=20
frers-list-admin@lis=
ts.frers33.com =3D <BR>> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On=
=20
Behalf Of Albert, Francis =3D <BR>> X CIV SEA 01 <BR>&=
;gt; Sent: Friday,=20
February 03, 2006 7:09 <BR>> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com <BR>>=20
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 <BR>&am=
p;gt; =3D20=20
<BR>> Bob, <BR>> =3D20 <BR>> My boat=20=
may have that new crack problem. I=20
noticed last summer water =3D <BR>> getting in to the bilge are=
a. This fall=20
when they hauled the boat there =3D <BR>> was a crack right at=20=
the top of the=20
keel right at where you would =3D <BR>> suppose the keel to hul=
l joint would be=20
(however, in one of these =3D <BR>> discussions someone mention=
ed the actual=20
hull is lower , down the keel =3D <BR>> like about 10 to 12 i=
nches) and water=20
from the bilge was seeping out. =3D <BR>> That lower hull thing=
seems pretty=20
strange and my yard says the keel and =3D <BR>> hull joint are=20=
right at that=20
crack. Their suggestion for this year is =3D <BR>> to snug up t=
he keel bolts=20
and then grind out the crack and fill it with =3D <BR>> 5200, f=
airing it using=20
alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then =3D <BR>> next yea=
r they will=20
remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by =3D <BR>> ab=
out 3 inches.=20
Their experience with this process has taught them a =3D <BR>>=20=
couple of=20
things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =3D <BR>&=
;gt; just this=20
way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel. =3D <BR>=
;>=20
Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in the =3D &l=
t;BR>>=20
lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel up =3D &l=
t;BR>>=20
being the 5200. <BR>> =3D20 <BR>> If anyone has ha=
d a similar e xperience=20
I'd like to hear about it. <BR>> =3D20 <BR>> Thank=
s, <BR>> Frank Albert=20
<BR>> =3D20 <BR>> =3D20 <BR>> =3D20 &=
lt;BR>> -----Original Message-----=20
<BR>> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D <BR>>=20
[mailto:frers-l=
ist-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward <BR>>=
;=20
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03 <BR>> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
<BR>> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a fre=
rs 33 <BR>>=20
=3D20 <BR>> Bob <BR>> =3D20 <BR>> I h=
ave a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and=20
races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've =3D <BR>> read Frank's respon=
se on your=20
question 4 and only have a couple of =3D <BR>> things to add, b=
ased on my=20
experience: <BR>> =3D20 <BR>> The construction of=20=
the transverse stringer=20
leaves a void below the =3D <BR>> stringer that extends to the=20=
leading edge of=20
the keel sump to which the =3D <BR>> keel is bolted at the poin=
t of transition=20
into the hull. I don't know =3D <BR>> for certain if thi s wi=
ll be true on=20
all boats, as I understand some may =3D <BR>> not have wood in=20=
the stringers,=20
but where it exists, it creates a =3D <BR>> potential structura=
l weak point. If=20
the leading edge of the keel at the =3D <BR>> hull shows separa=
tion you will=20
get a leak that will not only contribute =3D <BR>> to deteriora=
tion of the wood=20
stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: =3D <BR>> the reaso=
n is that you=20
are not seeing separation between keel and hull, =3D <BR>> but=20=
a crack in the=20
sump which, over time and load can create a tear in =3D <BR>> t=
he hull. This is=20
one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =3D <BR>> tha=
t you should=20
look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the =3D <BR>>=
hull. The fix=20
is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other =3D <BR>>=20=
thing to check=20
is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at =3D <BR>>=
; least one boat=20
(mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the =3D <BR>>=20=
bolts and nuts=20
that caused substan tial erosion of several of the keel =3D <BR>&=
;gt; bolts.=20
<BR>> =3D20 <BR>> Other than that, the boat is str=
ong as an ox and a delight=20
to sail and =3D <BR>> race. <BR>> =3D20 <BR>=
> Allan M. Heyward, Jr.=20
<BR>> COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C. <BR&=
gt;> 804-747-4500=20
<BR>> =3D20 <BR>> -----Original Message----- <B=
R>> From:=20
frers-list-admin@lis=
ts.frers33.com =3D <BR>> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]=20
On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert <BR>> Sent: Wednesday, February 01=
, 2006 7:02 AM=20
<BR>> To: fre=
rs-list@lists.frers33.com <BR>> Subject: [frers-list]questi=
ons=20
on a purchase of a frers 33 <BR>> =3D20 <BR>> I am=
currently interested in=20
purchasing a frers 33. <BR>> =3D20 <BR>> 1) Can an=
yone update me as to where=20
any specific coring issues in =3D <BR>> hull or the deck area t=
hat might be=20
consistent with most of these boats? <BR>> 2) If I wanted to ch=
ange out the=20
wheel steering to a tiller is =3D <BR>> this reasonable or does=
the in =20
stallation look like a morphidite? <BR>> 3) Any questionable el=
ectrical to=20
look for? <BR>> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to t=
he keel to=20
hull =3D <BR>> design or attachment. Separate from a bad ground=
ing. <BR>>=20
=3D20 <BR>> =3D20 <BR>> I live in the Chicago area=
<BR>> Thanks for any=20
advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =3D <BR>&g=
t; for" <BR>>=20
=3D20 <BR>> Bob <BR>> =3D20 <BR>> <=
;BR>> ____________________________________________________________=
_____________=3D=20
<BR>> ____ <BR>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: <BR>&=
amp;gt; This Weber-Stephen=20
Products Company e-mail is intended only for <BR>> the use of t=
he individual=20
or entity to which it is addressed and may <BR>> contain inform=
ation that is=20
privileged, confidential and exempt from <BR>> disclosure under=
applicable=20
law. If the reader of this e-mail message <BR>> is not the inte=
nded=20
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ntended recipient, you are hereby <BR>> notified that any diss=
emination,=20
distribution or copying of this <BR>> communication is prohibit=
ed. If you=20
have received this e-mail in error, <BR>> please notify us imme=
diately by=20
e-mail at =3D <BR>> <mailto:legal@weberstephen.com>legal@weber=
stephen.com=20
<BR>> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. <BR>=
;> <BR>>=20
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<STYLE>
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<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> > style=3D3D=
'tab-interval:.5in'> <BR>>=20
<BR>>=20
<DIV class=3D3DSection1><BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle21><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3D"#993366" <BR>> face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"&l=
t;BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family: <BR>=
;>=20
Arial'>Alright big question is where all these boats made the same an=
d =3D=20
<BR>> if <BR>> anyone knows of a different version=
.<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
yes"> <BR>> </SPAN>Allen your boat was n=
umber 14 what year was your=20
boat built?<SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=
</SPAN>Wild=20
thing was number 37 and =3D <BR>> may have <BR>> b=
een built in the same year=20
as mine.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P=
><BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle21><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3D"#993366" <BR>> face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"&l=
t;BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family: <BR>=
;>=20
Arial'><![if =3D <BR>> !supportEmptyParas]>&a=
mp;nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FON=
T></SPAN></P><BR>>=20
<BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle21><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3D"#993366" <BR>> face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"&l=
t;BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family: <BR>=
;>=20
Arial'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></S=
PAN></P><BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle21><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3D"#993366" <BR>> face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"&l=
t;BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family: <BR>=
;>=20
Arial'>Frank Albert<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT>&=
lt;/SPAN></P><BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle21><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3D"#993366" <BR>> face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"&l=
t;BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family: <BR>=
;>=20
Arial'><![if =3D <BR>> !supportEmptyParas]>&a=
mp;nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FON=
T></SPAN></P><BR>>=20
<BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DTahoma color=3D#3d0a00 size=
=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:bla=
ck'>-----Original=20
Message-----<BR><BR>> <B><SPAN>From:</SPAN=
></B> <BR>> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
=3D <BR>> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]<B><=
SPAN <BR>>=20
style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Albe=
rt, Francis X CIV =3D=20
<BR>> SEA 01<BR><BR>> <B><SPAN>S=
ent:</SPAN></B> Friday, February =3D=20
<BR>> 03, 2006 <BR>> 7:09<BR><BR>&=
gt; <B><SPAN>To:</SPAN></B> =3D <BR>>=20
frers-list@lists.frers33.c=
om<BR><BR>> <B><SPAN>Subject:</SPAN>=
;</B> RE: =3D=20
<BR>> [frers-list]questions <BR>> on a purchase of=
a frers=20
33</SPAN></FONT></P><BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D'3D"Times' size=3D3 Roman? New&=
gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 12.0pt'><![if =3D <BR=
>> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>&l=
t;o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P><BR>>=20
<BR>> <P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailSt=
yle20><FONT size=3D3=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR=
>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Arial'>Bo=3D=20
<BR>> b,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></S=
PAN></P><BR>> <BR>> <P=20
class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT size=3D3=20=
=3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!=
=3D =20
<BR>> [if =3D <BR>> !supportEmptyParas]>&am=
p;nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT=
></SPAN></P><BR>>=20
<BR>> <P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailSt=
yle20><FONT size=3D3=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR=
>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Arial'>My=3D=20
<BR>> boat <BR>> may have that new crack problem.&=
lt;SPAN yes?> =3D=20
<BR>> </SPAN>I <BR>> noticed last summer wat=
er getting in to the bilge=20
area.<SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&n=
bsp; </SPAN>This fall when=20
they hauled the =3D <BR>> boat <BR>> there was a c=
rack right at the top of=20
the keel right at where you would =3D <BR>> suppose <BR>&=
amp;gt; the keel to hull=20
joint would be (however, in one of these discussions =3D <BR>>=20=
someone <BR>>=20
mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 =3D &l=
t;BR>>=20
inches) <BR>> and water from the bilge was seeping out.<SPAN=
=3D"<BR">>=20
yes"> <BR>> </SPAN>That lower hull thing=
seems pretty strange and my=20
yard says the =3D <BR>> keel and <BR>> hull joint=20=
are right at that=20
crack.<SPAN =3D" <BR">> yes"> <BR>&=
amp;gt; </SPAN>Their suggestion for=20
this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =3D <BR>> then <B=
R>> grind out=20
the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using =3D <BR>> alc=
ohol.<SPAN=20
<BR>> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</SPAN>They said if that =3D=20
<BR>> doesn't work <BR>> then next year they will=20=
remove the bolts and=20
lift the boat off the keel =3D <BR>> by <BR>> abou=
t 3 inches.<SPAN=20
yes?> </SPAN>Their =3D <BR>> experience <=
BR>> with this process has=20
taught them a couple of things.<SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D"m=
so-spacerun: <BR>>=20
yes"> </SPAN>First most boats had the keels joined to=
the hull =3D=20
<BR>> just this <BR>> way with a ton of 5200 sprea=
d over the entire top of=20
the keel.<SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&a=
mp;nbsp; </SPAN>Second,=20
5200 really does not =3D <BR>> want to <BR>> let g=
o.<SPAN yes?> =20
</SPAN>They've had boats =3D <BR>> in the <BR>&=
gt; lift like this for four=20
hours
with the only thing holding the keel up =3D <BR>> being the &=
lt;BR>>=20
5200.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>=
;<BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!=
=3D =20
<BR>> [if =3D <BR>> !supportEmptyParas]>&am=
p;nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT=
></SPAN></P><BR>>=20
<BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=3D=20
<BR>> anyone <BR>> has had a similar experience I'=
d like to hear about =3D=20
<BR>> it.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></=
SPAN></P><BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!=
=3D =20
<BR>> [if =3D <BR>> !supportEmptyParas]>&am=
p;nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT=
></SPAN></P><BR>>=20
<BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=3D=20
<BR>> anks,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><=
;/SPAN></P><BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=3D=20
<BR>> ank <BR>> Albert<o:p></o:p></=
SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P><BR>>=20
<BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!=
=3D =20
<BR>> [if =3D <BR>> !supportEmptyParas]>&am=
p;nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT=
></SPAN></P><BR>>=20
<BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><S=
=3D=20
<BR>> pan <BR>> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"&=
gt; =3D <BR>>=20
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>&=
lt;/P><BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3D3DEmailStyle20><FONT siz=
e=3D3 =3D"<BR">>=20
color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!=
=3D =20
<BR>> [if =3D <BR>> !supportEmptyParas]>&am=
p;nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT=
></SPAN></P><BR>>=20
<BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DTahoma color=3D#3d0a00 size=
=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:bla=
ck'>-----Original=20
Message-----<BR><BR>> <B><SPAN>From:</SPAN=
></B> =3D <BR>>=20
frers-list-admin@lis=
ts.frers33.com <BR>> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.co=
m]<B><SPAN=20
=3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>On <BR>&am=
p;gt; Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Allan=20
Heyward<BR><BR>> <B><SPAN>Sent:</SPAN>&=
lt;/B> Thursday, February =3D <BR>> 02,=20
2006 <BR>> 12:03<BR><BR>> <B><SPAN&=
gt;To:</SPAN></B> =3D <BR>>=20
frers-list@lists.frers33.c=
om<BR><BR>> <B><SPAN>Subject:</SPAN>=
;</B> RE: =3D=20
<BR>> [frers-list]questions <BR>> on a purchase of=
a frers=20
33</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D#3d0a00><SPAN <BR>&=
amp;gt; style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p>&=
lt;/o:p></SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D'3D"Times' color=3D#3d0a00 size=
=3D3 New=3D"<BR">>=20
Roman"><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:=
black'><![if =3D =20
<BR>> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]&=
;gt;</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
<BR>> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN =3D"<BR">> s=
tyle=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&g=
t;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DArial color=3D#3d0a00 size=
=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy=
'>Bob</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN <BR>> s=
tyle=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&g=
t;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DArial color=3D#3d0a00 size=
=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy=
'> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN <BR>> s=
tyle=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&g=
t;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DArial color=3D#3d0a00 size=
=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy=
'>I have a=20
1987 Frers 33 that sails =3D <BR>> and <BR>> races=
on the Chesapeake=20
Bay. I've read Frank's =3D <BR>> response on your que=
stion <BR>> 4 and=20
only have a couple of things to add, based on my =3D <BR>> expe=
rience:</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
<BR>> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN =3D"<BR">> s=
tyle=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&g=
t;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DArial color=3D#3d0a00 size=
=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy=
'> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN <BR>> s=
tyle=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&g=
t;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DArial color=3D#3d0a00 size=
=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy=
'>The=20
construction of the transverse <BR>> stringer leaves a void bel=
ow the=20
stringer that extends to the leading =3D <BR>> edge of <BR&g=
t;> the keel sump=20
to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition =3D <BR>>=
; into the=20
<BR>> hull. I don't know for certain if this will be=20=
true on all =3D=20
<BR>> boats, as I <BR>> understand some may not ha=
ve wood in the=20
stringers, but where it exists, <BR>> it creates a po=
tential structural=20
weak point. If the leading =3D <BR>> edge <BR>&=
amp;gt; of the keel at the=20
hull shows separation you will get a leak that will =3D <BR>> n=
ot only <BR>>=20
contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to=20=
=3D=20
<BR>> the <BR>> bilge: the reason is that you are=20=
not seeing separation=20
between keel and =3D <BR>> hull, <BR>> but a crack=
in the sump which
, over time and load can create a tear in =3D <BR>> the <BR=
>> hull. =20
This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =3D <BR>&=
;gt; that you=20
<BR>> should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at=20=
the=20
hull. =3D <BR>> The <BR>> fix is not as=20=
traumatic as the problem=20
sounds. The other thing to =3D <BR>> check <BR>=
> is the keel bolts for=20
deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat =3D <BR>> (mine=
) <BR>> there=20
was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused <BR>=
;>=20
substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.</SPAN></FONT>&=
lt;FONT <BR>>=20
color=3D3Dblack><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'color:bla=
ck;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN><=
/FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DArial color=3D#3d0a00 size=
=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy=
'> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN <BR>> s=
tyle=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&g=
t;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DArial color=3D#3d0a00 size=
=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy=
'>Other than=20
that, the boat is strong =3D <BR>> as an <BR>> ox=20=
and a delight to sail and=20
race.</SPAN></FONT><FONT =3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dbl=
ack><SPAN <BR>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&=
gt;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DArial color=3D#3d0a00 size=
=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy=
'> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN <BR>> s=
tyle=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&g=
t;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoAutoSig><FONT face=3D3DArial color=3D#3d0a00 size=
=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy=
'>Allan M.=20
Heyward, =3D <BR>> Jr.</SPAN></FONT><FONT <BR=
>> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN=20
=3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'&=
;gt;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoAutoSig><FONT face=3D3DArial color=3D#3d0a00 size=
=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy=
'>COOK,=20
HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =3D <BR>> FEEHAN, <BR>&=
;gt; P.C.</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#3d0a00><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'color:black;m=
so-color-alt: <BR>>=20
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P&g=
t;<BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoAutoSig><FONT face=3D3DArial color=3D#3d0a00 size=
=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy=
'>804-747-4500</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
<BR>> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN =3D"<BR">> s=
tyle=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&g=
t;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D3DArial color=3D#3d0a00 size=
=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size: <BR>> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy=
'> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN <BR>> s=
tyle=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&g=
t;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 =3D"<BR">> color=
=3D3Dblack <BR>>=20
face=3D3DTahoma><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original=20
<BR>> Message-----<BR><BR>> <B><SPA=
N>From:</SPAN></B> <BR>>=20
frers-list-admin@lis=
ts.frers33.com =3D <BR>> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]=20
<B><SPAN <BR>> style=3D3D'font-weight:bold'>On=20=
Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Stephen,=20
Robert<BR><BR>> <B><SPAN>Sent:</SPAN>&l=
t;/B> Wednesday, February =3D <BR>> 01,=20
2006 <BR>> 7:02 AM<BR><BR>> <B><SPA=
N>To:</SPAN></B> =3D <BR>>=20
frers-list@lists.frers33.c=
om<BR><BR>> <B><SPAN>Subject:</SPAN>=
;</B> =3D <BR>>=20
[frers-list]questions on <BR>> a purchase of a frers 33</SPA=
N></FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#3d0a00><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'color: <BR=
>> black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p>&=
lt;/SPAN></FONT></P><BR>>=20
<BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 =3D"<BR">> color=
=3D3Dblack <BR>>=20
face=3D3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3=
D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </SPAN></FONT>&=
lt;FONT=20
<BR>> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN =3D"<BR">> s=
tyle=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&g=
t;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 =3D"<BR">> color=
=3D3Dblack <BR>>=20
face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I=20
am <BR>> currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.</SPA=
N></FONT><FONT=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN <BR>> s=
tyle=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&g=
t;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 =3D"<BR">> color=
=3D3Dblack <BR>>=20
face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </SPAN></F=
=3D=20
<BR>> ont><FONT <BR>> color=3D3Dblack&am=
p;gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&=
gt;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0=
in;text-indent:-.25in'><FONT=20
size=3D3 <BR>> color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial><SPAN=20=
=3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; <BR>> color:blac=
k'>1)</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font=
-size: <BR>>=20
7.0pt;color:black'> =
=3D <BR>>=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT <BR>> size=3D3D2 color=3D3Db=
lack face=3D3DArial><SPAN=20
=3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; <B=
R>>=20
color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring iss=
ues =3D=20
<BR>> in <BR>> hull or the deck area that might be=
consistent with most of=20
these =3D <BR>> boats?</SPAN></FONT><FONT <BR=
>> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN=20
=3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'&=
;gt;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0=
in;text-indent:-.25in'><FONT=20
size=3D3 <BR>> color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial><SPAN=20=
=3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; <BR>> color:blac=
k'>2)</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font=
-size: <BR>>=20
7.0pt;color:black'> =
=3D <BR>>=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT <BR>> size=3D3D2 color=3D3Db=
lack face=3D3DArial><SPAN=20
=3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; <B=
R>>=20
color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller=
is =3D=20
<BR>> this reasonable <BR>> or does the installati=
on look like a=20
morphidite?</SPAN></FONT><FONT <BR>> color=3D3Db=
lack><SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&=
gt;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0=
in;text-indent:-.25in'><FONT=20
size=3D3 <BR>> color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial><SPAN=20=
=3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; <BR>> color:blac=
k'>3)</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font=
-size: <BR>>=20
7.0pt;color:black'> =
=3D <BR>>=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT <BR>> size=3D3D2 color=3D3Db=
lack face=3D3DArial><SPAN=20
=3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; <B=
R>>=20
color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?</SPAN><=
;/FONT><FONT=20
<BR>> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN =3D"<BR">> s=
tyle=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&g=
t;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0=
in;text-indent:-.25in'><FONT=20
size=3D3 <BR>> color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial><SPAN=20=
=3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; <BR>> color:blac=
k'>4)</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#3d0a00 size=3D3><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font=
-size: <BR>>=20
7.0pt;color:black'> =
=3D <BR>>=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT <BR>> size=3D3D2 color=3D3Db=
lack face=3D3DArial><SPAN=20
=3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; <B=
R>>=20
color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to h=
ull =3D=20
<BR>> design <BR>> or attachment. Separate from a=20=
bad grounding.</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
=3D"<BR">> color=3D3Dblack><SPAN <BR>> s=
tyle=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&g=
t;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 =3D"<BR">> color=
=3D3Dblack <BR>>=20
face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </SPAN></F=
=3D=20
<BR>> ont><FONT <BR>> color=3D3Dblack&am=
p;gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&=
gt;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 =3D"<BR">> color=
=3D3Dblack <BR>>=20
face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </SPAN></F=
=3D=20
<BR>> ont><FONT <BR>> color=3D3Dblack&am=
p;gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&=
gt;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 =3D"<BR">> color=
=3D3Dblack <BR>>=20
face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I=20
live <BR>> in the Chicago area</SPAN></FONT><FON=
T color=3D#3d0a00><SPAN=20
=3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'color:black; <BR>> mso-color=
-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><=
;/P><BR>>=20
<BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 =3D"<BR">> color=
=3D3Dblack <BR>>=20
face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks=20
<BR>> for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what t=
o look =3D=20
<BR>> for"</SPAN></FONT><FONT <BR>>=
color=3D3Dblack><SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&=
gt;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 =3D"<BR">> color=
=3D3Dblack <BR>>=20
face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </SPAN></F=
=3D=20
<BR>> ont><FONT <BR>> color=3D3Dblack&am=
p;gt;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&=
gt;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 =3D"<BR">> color=
=3D3Dblack <BR>>=20
face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Bob</SPAN></FONT=3D=20
<BR>> ><FONT <BR>> color=3D3Dblack&g=
t;<SPAN =3D"<BR">>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p&=
gt;</SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>>=20
<P class=3D3DMsoNormal><FONT size=3D3 =3D"<BR">> color=
=3D3Dblack <BR>>=20
face=3D3DArial><SPAN =3D"<BR">> style=3D3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> &nb=
s=3D=20
<BR>> p; &=
nbsp; <BR>>=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D#3d0a00><SPAN =3D"<BR"&g=
t;> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p&g=
t;</o:p></SPAN></FONT><=3D=20
<BR>> /p> <BR>> <BR>> </P&g=
t;</DIV><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <B=
R>>=20
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From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Sat Feb 4 23:59:39 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Allan M Heyward)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 18:59:39 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs
Message-ID: <200602042359.k14Nxd125837@chllh.com>
Frank
If your keel is mounted flush to the hull, it sounds like there was a
fundamental change in construction somewhere along the way, resulting,
I'd guess, in far shallower bilge than I have. I'd be happy to forward
the pictures from my 2 adventures with the keel root (keel removal
in '02 and the leak repair in '05) detailing the construction of #14,
to the website or archival purposes and the common weal. Let me know.
Allan
>
>
> Allen,
> My yard had to drop the keel last year because of a grounding that
looked like it kicked the keel off to port by about 5 degrees.
Additionally I had a crack in the hull just forward of where the
leading edge of the keel joins the hull. They put the hull up on jack
stands and they said it normally takes about 5 hours of wailing on the
top of the keel bolts with a sledge hammer to loosen it. In my case
they took three wacks and it dropped right off. So much for 5200.
> Frank Wittosch
> Pepperke 2.0
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
>
> > Send frers-list mailing list submissions to
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> >
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> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV
SEA 01)
> > 2. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV
SEA 01)
> >
> > --__--__--
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:08:37 -0500
> > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"
> > To:
> > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> >
> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> >
> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94
> > Content-Type: text/plain;
> > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> > Bob,
> > =20
> > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer
water =
> > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat
there =
> > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
> > suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
> > discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the
keel =
> > like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping
out. =
> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the
keel and =
> > hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year
is =
> > to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it
with =
> > 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then
=
> > next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel
by =
> > about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them
a =
> > couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull
=
> > just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the
keel. =
> > Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in
the =
> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
up =
> > being the 5200.
> > =20
> > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
> > =20
> > Thanks,
> > Frank Albert
> > =20
> > =20
> > =20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan
Heyward
> > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > =20
> > Bob
> > =20
> > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay.
I've =
> > read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of
=
> > things to add, based on my experience:
> > =20
> > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the
=
> > stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which
the =
> > keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't
know =
> > for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some
may =
> > not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
> > potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at
the =
> > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only
contribute =
> > to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the
bilge: =
> > the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and
hull, =
> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
in =
> > the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and
=
> > that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at
the =
> > hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other
=
> > thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on
at =
> > least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the
=
> > bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the
keel =
> > bolts.
> > =20
> > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail
and =
> > race.
> > =20
> > Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
> > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
> > 804-747-4500
> > =20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen,
Robert
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > =20
> > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
> > =20
> > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these
boats?
> > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
> > this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
> > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
> > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
> > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
> > =20
> > =20
> > I live in the Chicago area
> > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to
look =
> > for"
> > =20
> > Bob
> > =20
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________
_=
> > ____
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
> > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and
may
> > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt
from
> > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail
message
> > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are
hereby
> > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in
error,
> > please notify us immediately by e-mail at =
> > legal@weberstephen.com
> > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
> >
> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94
> > Content-Type: text/html;
> > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> > > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
> > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
> >
> >
> > > charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=
> > b,
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=
> > boat
> > may have that new crack problem. =
> > I
> > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.>
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =
> > boat
> > there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you
would =
> > suppose
> > the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these
discussions =
> > someone
> > mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to
12 =
> > inches)
> > and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes">
> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =
> > keel and
> > hull joint are right at that crack.> yes">
> > Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =
> > then grind
> > out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol.>
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =
> > doesn't work
> > then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the
keel =
> > by
> > about 3 inches. Their =
> > experience
> > with this process has taught them a couple of things.> style=3D"mso-
spacerun:
> > yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
> > just this
> > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.>
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =
> > want to
> > let go. They've had boats =
> > in the
> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
up =
> > being the
> > 5200.
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=
> > anyone
> > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =
> > it.
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=
> > anks,
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=
> > ank
> > Albert
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> pan
> > style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> > yes">
> >
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
>
> > From:
> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-
weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
>
> > Sent: Thursday, February =
> > 02, 2006
> > 12:03
>
> > To: =
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> > Subject: RE: =
> > [frers-list]questions
> > on a purchase of a frers 33
>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that
sails =
> > and
> > races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read Frank’s =
> > response on your question
> > 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =
> > experience:> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the
transverse =
> > stringer
> > leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading edge
of the =
> > keel
> > sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition into
the =
> > hull.
> > I don’t know for certain if this will be true on all boats, =
> > as I
> > understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it
exists,
> > it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =
> > edge
> > of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that
will =
> > not only
> > contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a
path to =
> > the
> > bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between
keel and =
> > hull,
> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
in =
> > the
> > hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
> > that you
> > should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull.
=
> > The
> > fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to
=
> > check
> > is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one
boat =
> > (mine)
> > there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that
caused
> > substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is
strong =
> > as an
> > ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =
> > Jr.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =
> > FEEHAN,
> > P.C.> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
> > windowtext'>
>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DTahoma>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
> > Message-----
>
> > From:
> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D'font-
weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February =
> > 01, 2006
> > 7:02 AM
>
> > To: =
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> > Subject: =
> > [frers-list]questions on
> > a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color:
> > black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>I am
> > currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>1)> style=3D'font-size:
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring
issues =
> > in
> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
> > boats?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>2)> style=3D'font-size:
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a
tiller is =
> > this
> > reasonable or does the installation look like a =
> > morphidite?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>3)> style=3D'font-size:
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?>
color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>4)> style=3D'font-size:
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to
hull =
> > design
> > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>I live
> > in the Chicago area> style=3D'color:black;
> > mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks
> > for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look =
> > for”> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>Bob> >> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs=
> > p;
> > > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> > face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
> >
size=3D2>_______________________________________________________________
_=
> > _____________
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> This Weber-Stephen Products =
> > Company e-mail is intended only for
> the use of the individual or =
> > entity to which it is addressed and may
> contain information that is =
> > privileged, confidential and exempt from
> disclosure under applicable =
> > law. If the reader of this e-mail message
> is not the intended =
> > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> for delivery of the =
> > message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any =
> > dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is =
> > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> please notify =
> > us immediately by e-mail at >
href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
> > color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank
=
> > you.
>
> >
> >
> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94--
> >
> > --__--__--
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:14:30 -0500
> > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"
> > To:
> > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> >
> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> >
> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6
> > Content-Type: text/plain;
> > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> > Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if
=
> > anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14
what =
> > year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have
been =
> > built in the same year as mine.
> > =20
> > Thanks,
> > Frank Albert
> > =20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert,
Francis =
> > X CIV SEA 01
> > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > =20
> > Bob,
> > =20
> > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer
water =
> > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat
there =
> > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
> > suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
> > discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the
keel =
> > like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping
out. =
> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the
keel and =
> > hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year
is =
> > to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it
with =
> > 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then
=
> > next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel
by =
> > about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them
a =
> > couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull
=
> > just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the
keel. =
> > Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in
the =
> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
up =
> > being the 5200.
> > =20
> > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
> > =20
> > Thanks,
> > Frank Albert
> > =20
> > =20
> > =20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan
Heyward
> > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > =20
> > Bob
> > =20
> > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay.
I've =
> > read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of
=
> > things to add, based on my experience:
> > =20
> > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the
=
> > stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which
the =
> > keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't
know =
> > for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some
may =
> > not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
> > potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at
the =
> > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only
contribute =
> > to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the
bilge: =
> > the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and
hull, =
> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
in =
> > the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and
=
> > that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at
the =
> > hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other
=
> > thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on
at =
> > least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the
=
> > bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the
keel =
> > bolts.
> > =20
> > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail
and =
> > race.
> > =20
> > Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
> > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
> > 804-747-4500
> > =20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen,
Robert
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > =20
> > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
> > =20
> > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these
boats?
> > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
> > this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
> > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
> > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
> > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
> > =20
> > =20
> > I live in the Chicago area
> > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to
look =
> > for"
> > =20
> > Bob
> > =20
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________
_=
> > ____
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
> > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and
may
> > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt
from
> > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail
message
> > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are
hereby
> > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in
error,
> > please notify us immediately by e-mail at =
> > legal@weberstephen.com
> > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
> >
> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6
> > Content-Type: text/html;
> > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> > > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
> > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
> >
> >
> > > charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> > color=3D"#993366"
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:
> > Arial'>Alright big question is where all these boats made the same
and =
> > if
> > anyone knows of a different version.> yes">
> > Allen your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built?>
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Wild thing was number 37 and =
> > may have
> > been built in the same year as mine.
>
> >
> >
> > color=3D"#993366"
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:
> > Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3D"#993366"
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:
> > Arial'>Thanks,
>
> >
> >
> > color=3D"#993366"
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:
> > Arial'>Frank Albert
>
> >
> >
> > color=3D"#993366"
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:
> > Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
>
> > From:
> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-
weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV =
> > SEA 01
>
> > Sent: Friday, February =
> > 03, 2006
> > 7:09
>
> > To: =
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> > Subject: RE: =
> > [frers-list]questions
> > on a purchase of a frers 33
>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=
> > b,
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=
> > boat
> > may have that new crack problem. =
> > I
> > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.>
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =
> > boat
> > there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you
would =
> > suppose
> > the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these
discussions =
> > someone
> > mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to
12 =
> > inches)
> > and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes">
> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =
> > keel and
> > hull joint are right at that crack.> yes">
> > Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =
> > then
> > grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using =
> > alcohol.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =
> > doesn't work
> > then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the
keel =
> > by
> > about 3 inches. Their =
> > experience
> > with this process has taught them a couple of things.> style=3D"mso-
spacerun:
> > yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
> > just this
> > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.>
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =
> > want to
> > let go. They've had boats =
> > in the
> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
up =
> > being the
> > 5200.
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=
> > anyone
> > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =
> > it.
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=
> > anks,
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=
> > ank
> > Albert
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> pan
> > style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
> >
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
>
> > From: =
> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-
weight:bold'>On
> > Behalf Of Allan Heyward
>
> > Sent: Thursday, February =
> > 02, 2006
> > 12:03
>
> > To: =
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> > Subject: RE: =
> > [frers-list]questions
> > on a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>> !
supportEmptyParas]> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that
sails =
> > and
> > races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read Frank’s =
> > response on your question
> > 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =
> > experience:> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the
transverse
> > stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the
leading =
> > edge of
> > the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of
transition =
> > into the
> > hull. I don’t know for certain if this will be true on all =
> > boats, as I
> > understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it
exists,
> > it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =
> > edge
> > of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that
will =
> > not only
> > contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a
path to =
> > the
> > bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between
keel and =
> > hull,
> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
in =
> > the
> > hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
> > that you
> > should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull.
=
> > The
> > fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to
=
> > check
> > is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one
boat =
> > (mine)
> > there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that
caused
> > substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is
strong =
> > as an
> > ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =
> > Jr.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =
> > FEEHAN,
> > P.C.> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
> > windowtext'>
>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DTahoma>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
> > Message-----
>
> > From:
> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D'font-
weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February =
> > 01, 2006
> > 7:02 AM
>
> > To: =
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> > Subject: =
> > [frers-list]questions on
> > a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color:
> > black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>I am
> > currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>1)> style=3D'font-size:
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring
issues =
> > in
> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
> > boats?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>2)> style=3D'font-size:
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a
tiller is =
> > this reasonable
> > or does the installation look like a morphidite?> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>3)> style=3D'font-size:
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?>
color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>4)> style=3D'font-size:
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to
hull =
> > design
> > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>I live
> > in the Chicago area> style=3D'color:black;
> > mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks
> > for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look =
> > for”> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>Bob> >> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs=
> > p;
> > > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> > face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
> >
size=3D2>_______________________________________________________________
_=
> > _____________
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> This Weber-Stephen Products =
> > Company e-mail is intended only for
> the use of the individual or =
> > entity to which it is addressed and may
> contain information that is =
> > privileged, confidential and exempt from
> disclosure under applicable =
> > law. If the reader of this e-mail message
> is not the intended =
> > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> for delivery of the =
> > message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any =
> > dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is =
> > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> please notify =
> > us immediately by e-mail at >
href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
> > color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank
=
> > you.
>
> >
> >
> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6--
> >
> >
> > --__--__--
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > frers-list mailing list
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
> >
> >
> > End of frers-list Digest
>
--
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
Cook Heyward Lonnes Lee & Hopper, P.C.
P.O. Box 29629
Richmond VA, 23242
804.747.4500
Fax: 804.762.9608
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Sun Feb 5 00:47:20 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (frers-list@lists.frers33.com)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 00:47:20 +0000
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #176 - 1 msg
Message-ID: <020520060047.25447.43E54B160001C347000063672209224627CE9B9B079900@comcast.net>
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_25447_1139100440_0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Alan,
My keel was mounted to a keel root the same as the rest of the freres flwwt. Ihad seen pic of this from other jobs posted on this site and used these to guide the yard when they were lowering the keel. The strike I took managed to crack the hull in front of and immediatly behing the keel hull joint. \Frank ------------- Original message --------------
From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs (Allan M Heyward)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 18:59:39 -0500
> From: "Allan M Heyward"
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com, frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: Re: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
>
> Frank
>
> If your keel is mounted flush to the hull, it sounds like there was a
> fundamental change in construction somewhere along the way, resulting,
> I'd guess, in far shallower bilge than I have. I'd be happy to forward
> the pictures from my 2 adventures with the keel root (keel removal
> in '02 and the leak repair in '05) detailing the construction of #14,
> to the website or archival purposes and the common weal. Let me know.
>
> Allan
> >
> >
> > Allen,
> > My yard had to drop the keel last year because of a grounding that
> looked like it kicked the keel off to port by about 5 degrees.
> Additionally I had a crack in the hull just forward of where the
> leading edge of the keel joins the hull. They put the hull up on jack
> stands and they said it normally takes about 5 hours of wailing on the
> top of the keel bolts with a sledge hammer to loosen it. In my case
> they took three wacks and it dropped right off. So much for 5200.
> > Frank Wittosch
> > Pepperke 2.0
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
> >
> > > Send frers-list mailing list submissions to
> > > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
> > >
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > > 1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV
> SEA 01)
> > > 2. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV
> SEA 01)
> > >
> > > -- __--__--
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:08:37 -0500
> > > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"
> > > To:
> > > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > >
> > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> > >
> > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94
> > > Content-Type: text/plain;
> > > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> > >
> > > Bob,
> > > =20
> > > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer
> water =
> > > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat
> there =
> > > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
> > > suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
> > > discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the
> keel =
> > > like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping
> out. =
> > > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the
> keel and =
> > > hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year
> is =
> > > to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it
> with =
> > > 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then
> =
> > > next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel
> by =
> > > about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them
> a =
> > > couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull
> =
> > > just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the
> keel. =
> > > Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in
> the =
> > > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
> up =
> > > being the 5200.
> > > =20
> > > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
> > > =20
> > > Thanks,
> > > Frank Albert
> > > =20
> > > =20
> > > =20
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan
> Heyward
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
> > > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > > =20
> > > Bob
> > > =20
> > > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay.
> I've =
> > > read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of
> =
> > > things to add, based on my experience:
> > > =20
> > > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the
> =
> > > stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which
> the =
> > > keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't
> know =
> > > for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some
> may =
> > > not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
> > > potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at
> the =
> > > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only
> contribute =
> > > to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the
> bilge: =
> > > the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and
> hull, =
> > > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
> in =
> > > the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and
> =
> > > that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at
> the =
> > > hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other
> =
> > > thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on
> at =
> > > least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the
> =
> > > bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the
> keel =
> > > bolts.
> > > =20
> > > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail
> and =
> > > race.
> > > =20
> > > Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
> > > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
> > > 804-747-4500
> > > =20
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen,
> Robert
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
> > > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > > =20
> > > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
> > > =20
> > > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
> > > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these
> boats?
> > > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
> > > this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
> > > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
> > > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
> > > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
> > > =20
> > > =20
> > > I live in the Chicago area
> > > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to
> look =
> > > for"
> > > =20
> > > Bob
> > > =20
> > >
> > >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> _=
> > > ____
> > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> > > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
> > > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and
> may
> > > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt
> from
> > > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail
> message
> > > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> > > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are
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> > > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
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> > >
> > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94
> > > Content-Type: text/html;
> > > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> > >
> > > > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
> > > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
> > >
> > >
> > > > charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=
> > > b,
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > > !supportEmptyParas]>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=
> > > boat
> > > may have that new crack problem. =
> > > I
> > > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.>
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =
> > > boat
> > > there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you
> would =
> > > suppose
> > > the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these
> discussions =
> > > someone
> > > mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to
> 12 =
> > > inches)
> > > and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes">
> > > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =
> > > keel and
> > > hull joint are right at that crack.> yes">
> > > Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =
> > > then grind
> > > out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol.>
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =
> > > doesn't work
> > > then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the
> keel =
> > > by
> > > about 3 inches. Their =
> > > experience
> > > with this process has taught them a couple of things.> style=3D"mso-
> spacerun:
> > > yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
> > > just this
> > > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.>
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =
> > > want to
> > > let go. They've had boats =
> > > in the
> > > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
> up =
> > > being the
> > > 5200.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > > !supportEmptyParas]>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=
> > > anyone
> > > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =
> > > it.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > > !supportEmptyParas]>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=
> > > anks,
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=
> > > ank
> > > Albert
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > > !supportEmptyParas]>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> pan
> > > style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> > yes">
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > > !supportEmptyParas]>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
> >
> > > From:
> > > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
> >
> > > Sent: Thursday, February =
> > > 02, 2006
> > > 12:03
> >
> > > To: =
> > > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> >
> > > Subject: RE: =
> > > [frers-list]questions
> > > on a purchase of a frers 33
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that
> sails =
> > > and
> > > races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read Frank’s =
> > > response on your question
> > > 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =
> > > experience:> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the
> transverse =
> > > stringer
> > > leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading edge
> of the =
> > > keel
> > > sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition into
> the =
> > > hull.
> > > I don’t know for certain if this will be true on all boats, =
> > > as I
> > > understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it
> exists,
> > > it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =
> > > edge
> > > of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that
> will =
> > > not only
> > > contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a
> path to =
> > > the
> > > bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between
> keel and =
> > > hull,
> > > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
> in =
> > > the
> > > hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
> > > that you
> > > should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull.
> =
> > > The
> > > fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to
> =
> > > check
> > > is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one
> boat =
> > > (mine)
> > > there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that
> caused
> > > substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is
> strong =
> > > as an
> > > ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =
> > > Jr.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =
> > > FEEHAN,
> > > P.C.> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
> > > windowtext'>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DTahoma>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
> > > Message-----
> >
> > > From:
> > > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
> >
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February =
> > > 01, 2006
> > > 7:02 AM
> >
> > > To: =
> > > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> >
> > > Subject: =
> > > [frers-list]questions on
> > > a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color:
> > > black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
> > color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>I am
> > > currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > > color:black'>1)> style=3D'font-size:
> > > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > > color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring
> issues =
> > > in
> > > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
> > > boats?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > > color:black'>2)> style=3D'font-size:
> > > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > > color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a
> tiller is =
> > > this
> > > reasonable or does the installation look like a =
> > > morphidite?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > > color:black'>3)> style=3D'font-size:
> > > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > > color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?>
> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > > color:black'>4)> style=3D'font-size:
> > > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > > color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to
> hull =
> > > design
> > > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>I live
> > > in the Chicago area> style=3D'color:black;
> > > mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks
> > > for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look =
> > > for”> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>Bob> >> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs=
> > > p;
> > > > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
> > >
> size=3D2>_______________________________________________________________
> _=
> > > _____________
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> > This Weber-Stephen Products =
> > > Company e-mail is intended only for
> > the use of the individual or =
> > > entity to which it is addressed and may
> > contain information that is =
> > > privileged, confidential and exempt from
> > disclosure under applicable =
> > > law. If the reader of this e-mail message
> > is not the intended =
> > > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> > for delivery of the =
> > > message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
> > notified that any =
> > > dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> > communication is =
> > > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> > please notify =
> > > us immediately by e-mail at >
> href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
> > > color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank
> =
> > > you.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94--
> > >
> > > -- __--__--
> > >
> > > Message: 2
> > > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:14:30 -0500
> > > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"
> > > To:
> > > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > >
> > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> > >
> > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6
> > > Content-Type: text/plain;
> > > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> > >
> > > Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if
> =
> > > anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14
> what =
> > > year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have
> been =
> > > built in the same year as mine.
> > > =20
> > > Thanks,
> > > Frank Albert
> > > =20
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert,
> Francis =
> > > X CIV SEA 01
> > > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
> > > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > > =20
> > > Bob,
> > > =20
> > > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer
> water =
> > > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat
> there =
> > > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
> > > suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
> > > discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the
> keel =
> > > like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping
> out. =
> > > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the
> keel and =
> > > hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year
> is =
> > > to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it
> with =
> > > 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then
> =
> > > next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel
> by =
> > > about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them
> a =
> > > couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull
> =
> > > just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the
> keel. =
> > > Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in
> the =
> > > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
> up =
> > > being the 5200.
> > > =20
> > > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
> > > =20
> > > Thanks,
> > > Frank Albert
> > > =20
> > > =20
> > > =20
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan
> Heyward
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
> > > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > > =20
> > > Bob
> > > =20
> > > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay.
> I've =
> > > read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of
> =
> > > things to add, based on my experience:
> > > =20
> > > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the
> =
> > > stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which
> the =
> > > keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't
> know =
> > > for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some
> may =
> > > not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
> > > potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at
> the =
> > > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only
> contribute =
> > > to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the
> bilge: =
> > > the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and
> hull, =
> > > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
> in =
> > > the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and
> =
> > > that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at
> the =
> > > hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other
> =
> > > thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on
> at =
> > > least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the
> =
> > > bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the
> keel =
> > > bolts.
> > > =20
> > > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail
> and =
> > > race.
> > > =20
> > > Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
> > > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
> > > 804-747-4500
> > > =20
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen,
> Robert
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
> > > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > > =20
> > > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
> > > =20
> > > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
> > > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these
> boats?
> > > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
> > > this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
> > > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
> > > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
> > > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
> > > =20
> > > =20
> > > I live in the Chicago area
> > > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to
> look =
> > > for"
> > > =20
> > > Bob
> > > =20
> > >
> > >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> _=
> > > ____
> > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> > > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
> > > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and
> may
> > > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt
> from
> > > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail
> message
> > > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> > > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are
> hereby
> > > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> > > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in
> error,
> > > please notify us immediately by e-mail at =
> > > legal@weberstephen.com
> > > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
> > >
> > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6
> > > Content-Type: text/html;
> > > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> > >
> > > > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
> > > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
> > >
> > >
> > > > charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3D"#993366"
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
> > > Arial'>Alright big question is where all these boats made the same
> and =
> > > if
> > > anyone knows of a different version.> yes">
> > > Allen your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built?>
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Wild thing was number 37 and =
> > > may have
> > > been built in the same year as mine.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3D"#993366"
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
> > > Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3D"#993366"
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
> > > Arial'>Thanks,
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3D"#993366"
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
> > > Arial'>Frank Albert
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3D"#993366"
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
> > > Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
> >
> > > From:
> > > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV =
> > > SEA 01
> >
> > > Sent: Friday, February =
> > > 03, 2006
> > > 7:09
> >
> > > To: =
> > > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> >
> > > Subject: RE: =
> > > [frers-list]questions
> > > on a purchase of a frers 33
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=
> > > b,
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > > !supportEmptyParas]>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=
> > > boat
> > > may have that new crack problem. =
> > > I
> > > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.>
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =
> > > boat
> > > there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you
> would =
> > > suppose
> > > the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these
> discussions =
> > > someone
> > > mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to
> 12 =
> > > inches)
> > > and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes">
> > > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =
> > > keel and
> > > hull joint are right at that crack.> yes">
> > > Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =
> > > then
> > > grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using =
> > > alcohol.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =
> > > doesn't work
> > > then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the
> keel =
> > > by
> > > about 3 inches. Their =
> > > experience
> > > with this process has taught them a couple of things.> style=3D"mso-
> spacerun:
> > > yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
> > > just this
> > > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.>
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =
> > > want to
> > > let go. They've had boats =
> > > in the
> > > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
> up =
> > > being the
> > > 5200.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > > !supportEmptyParas]>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=
> > > anyone
> > > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =
> > > it.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > > !supportEmptyParas]>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=
> > > anks,
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=
> > > ank
> > > Albert
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > > !supportEmptyParas]>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> pan
> > > style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > > !supportEmptyParas]>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
> >
> > > From: =
> > > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
> > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On
> > > Behalf Of Allan Heyward
> >
> > > Sent: Thursday, February =
> > > 02, 2006
> > > 12:03
> >
> > > To: =
> > > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> >
> > > Subject: RE: =
> > > [frers-list]questions
> > > on a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>> !
> supportEmptyParas]> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that
> sails =
> > > and
> > > races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read Frank’s =
> > > response on your question
> > > 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =
> > > experience:> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the
> transverse
> > > stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the
> leading =
> > > edge of
> > > the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of
> transition =
> > > into the
> > > hull. I don’t know for certain if this will be true on all =
> > > boats, as I
> > > understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it
> exists,
> > > it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =
> > > edge
> > > of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that
> will =
> > > not only
> > > contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a
> path to =
> > > the
> > > bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between
> keel and =
> > > hull,
> > > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
> in =
> > > the
> > > hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
> > > that you
> > > should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull.
> =
> > > The
> > > fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to
> =
> > > check
> > > is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one
> boat =
> > > (mine)
> > > there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that
> caused
> > > substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is
> strong =
> > > as an
> > > ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =
> > > Jr.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =
> > > FEEHAN,
> > > P.C.> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
> > > windowtext'>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'font-size:
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DTahoma>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
> > > Message-----
> >
> > > From:
> > > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
> >
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February =
> > > 01, 2006
> > > 7:02 AM
> >
> > > To: =
> > > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> >
> > > Subject: =
> > > [frers-list]questions on
> > > a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color:
> > > black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
> > color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>I am
> > > currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > > color:black'>1)> style=3D'font-size:
> > > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > > color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring
> issues =
> > > in
> > > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
> > > boats?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > > color:black'>2)> style=3D'font-size:
> > > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > > color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a
> tiller is =
> > > this reasonable
> > > or does the installation look like a morphidite?> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > > color:black'>3)> style=3D'font-size:
> > > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > > color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?>
> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > > color:black'>4)> style=3D'font-size:
> > > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > > color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to
> hull =
> > > design
> > > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>I live
> > > in the Chicago area> style=3D'color:black;
> > > mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks
> > > for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look =
> > > for”> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>Bob> >> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> > > color=3Dblack
> > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs=
> > > p;
> > > > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > > /p>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
> > >
> size=3D2>_______________________________________________________________
> _=
> > > _____________
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> > This Weber-Stephen Products =
> > > Company e-mail is intended only for
> > the use of the individual or =
> > > entity to which it is addressed and may
> > contain information that is =
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> > disclosure under applicable =
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> > is not the intended =
> > > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> > for delivery of the =
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> > communication is =
> > > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> > please notify =
> > > us immediately by e-mail at >
> href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
> > > color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank
> =
> > > you.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6--
> > >
> > >
> > > -- __--__--
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > frers-list mailing list
> > > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
> > >
> > >
> > > End of frers-list Digest
> >
>
> --
> Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
> Cook Heyward Lonnes Lee & Hopper, P.C.
> P.O. Box 29629
> Richmond VA, 23242
> 804.747.4500
> Fax: 804.762.9608
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
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>
> End of frers-list Digest
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_25447_1139100440_0
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Alan,
My keel was mounted to a keel root the same as the rest of the freres flwwt. Ihad seen pic of this from other jobs posted on this site and used these to guide the yard when they were lowering the keel. The strike I took managed to crack the hull in front of and immediatly behing the keel hull joint. \Frank ------------- Original message -------------- From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to > frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs (Allan M Heyward) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 18:59:39 -0500 > From: "Allan M Heyward" > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com, frers-list@lists.frers33.com > Subject: Re: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > > Frank > > If your keel is mounted flush to the hull, it sounds like there was a > fundamental change in construction somewhere along the way, resulting, > I'd guess, in far shallower bilge than I have. I'd be happy to forward > the pictures from my 2 adventures with the keel root (keel removal > in '02 and the leak repair in '05) detailing the construction of #14, > to the website or archival purposes and the common weal. Let me know. > > Allan > > > > > > Allen, > > My yard had to drop the keel last year because of a grounding that > looked like it kicked the keel off to port by about 5 degrees. > Additionally I had a crack in the hull just forward of where the > leading edge of the keel joins the hull. They put the hull up on jack > stands and they said it normally takes about 5 hours of wailing on the > top of the keel bolts with a sledge hammer to loosen it. In my case > they took three wacks and it dropped right off. So much for 5200. > > Frank Wittosch > > Pepperke 2.0 > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com > > > > > Send frers-list mailing list submissions to > > > frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > > frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com > > > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com > > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > > than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..." > > > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > > > 1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV > SEA 01) > > > 2. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV > SEA 01) > > > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > > > Message: 1 > > > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > > > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:08:37 -0500 > > > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01" > > > To: > > > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > > > > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94 > > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > Bob, > > > =20 > > > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer > water = > > > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat > there = > > > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would = > > > suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these = > > > discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the > keel = > > > like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping > out. = > > > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the > keel and = > > > hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year > is = > > > to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it > with = > > > 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then > = > > > next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel > by = > > > about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them > a = > > > couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull > = > > > just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the > keel. = > > > Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in > the = > > > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel > up = > > > being the 5200. > > > =20 > > > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it. > > > =20 > > > Thanks, > > > Frank Albert > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com = > > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan > Heyward > > > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03 > > > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > > > =20 > > > Bob > > > =20 > > > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. > I've = > > > read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of > = > > > things to add, based on my experience: > > > =20 > > > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the > = > > > stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which > the = > > > keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't > know = > > > for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some > may = > > > not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a = > > > potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at > the = > > > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only > contribute = > > > to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the > bilge: = > > > the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and > hull, = > > > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear > in = > > > the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and > = > > > that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at > the = > > > hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other > = > > > thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on > at = > > > least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the > = > > > bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the > keel = > > > bolts. > > > =20 > > > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail > and = > > > race. > > > =20 > > > Allan M. Heyward, Jr. > > > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C. > > > 804-747-4500 > > > =20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com = > > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, > Robert > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM > > > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > > > =20 > > > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33. > > > =20 > > > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in = > > > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these > boats? > > > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is = > > > this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite? > > > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for? > > > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull = > > > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding. > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > I live in the Chicago area > > > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to > look = > > > for" > > > =20 > > > Bob > > > =20 > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > _= > > > ____ > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: > > > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for > > > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and > may > > > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt > from > > > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail > message > > > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible > > > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are > hereby > > > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this > > > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in > error, > > > please notify us immediately by e-mail at = > > > legal@weberstephen.com > > > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. > > > > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94 > > > Content-Type: text/html; > > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = > > > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> > > > > > > > > > > charset=3Diso-8859-1"> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo= > > > b, > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if = > > > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]> > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My= > > > boat > > > may have that new crack problem. = > > > I > > > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.> > style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the = > > > boat > > > there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you > would = > > > suppose > > > the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these > discussions = > > > someone > > > mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to > 12 = > > > inches) > > > and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes"> > > > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the = > > > keel and > > > hull joint are right at that crack.> yes"> > > > Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and = > > > then grind > > > out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol.> > style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that = > > > doesn't work > > > then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the > keel = > > > by > > > about 3 inches. Their = > > > experience > > > with this process has taught them a couple of things.> style=3D"mso- > spacerun: > > > yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull = > > > just this > > > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.> > style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not = > > > want to > > > let go. They've had boats = > > > in the > > > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel > up = > > > being the > > > 5200. > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if = > > > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]> > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If= > > > anyone > > > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about = > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if = > > > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]> > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th= > > > anks, > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr= > > > ank > > > Albert > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if = > > > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]> > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> pan > > > style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> > yes"> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if = > > > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]> > > > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message----- > > > > > From: > > > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com = > > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font- > weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Allan Heyward > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February = > > > 02, 2006 > > > 12:03 > > > > > To: = > > > frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > > > > Subject: RE: = > > > [frers-list]questions > > > on a purchase of a frers 33 > > > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]> > > > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that > sails = > > > and > > > races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read Frank’s = > > > response on your question > > > 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my = > > > experience:> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color- > alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the > transverse = > > > stringer > > > leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading edge > of the = > > > keel > > > sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition into > the = > > > hull. > > > I don’t know for certain if this will be true on all boats, = > > > as I > > > understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it > exists, > > > it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading = > > > edge > > > of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that > will = > > > not only > > > contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a > path to = > > > the > > > bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between > keel and = > > > hull, > > > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear > in = > > > the > > > hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and = > > > that you > > > should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. > = > > > The > > > fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to > = > > > check > > > is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one > boat = > > > (mine) > > > there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that > caused > > > substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is > strong = > > > as an > > > ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, = > > > Jr.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color- > alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & = > > > FEEHAN, > > > P.C.> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt: > > > windowtext'> > > > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DTahoma>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original > > > Message----- > > > > > From: > > > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com = > > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D'font- > weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February = > > > 01, 2006 > > > 7:02 AM > > > > > To: = > > > frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > > > > Subject: = > > > [frers-list]questions on > > > a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color: > > > black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'> > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> > > color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Arial;color:black'>I am > > > currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > > > color:black'>1)> style=3D'font-size: > > > 7.0pt;color:black'> = > > > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font- > size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > > > color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring > issues = > > > in > > > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these = > > > boats?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color- > alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > > > color:black'>2)> style=3D'font-size: > > > 7.0pt;color:black'> = > > > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font- > size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > > > color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a > tiller is = > > > this > > > reasonable or does the installation look like a = > > > morphidite?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color- > alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > > > color:black'>3)> style=3D'font-size: > > > 7.0pt;color:black'> = > > > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font- > size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > > > color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?> > color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > > > color:black'>4)> style=3D'font-size: > > > 7.0pt;color:black'> = > > > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font- > size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > > > color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to > hull = > > > design > > > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Arial;color:black'>I live > > > in the Chicago area> style=3D'color:black; > > > mso-color-alt:windowtext'> > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks > > > for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look = > > > for”> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color- > alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Arial;color:black'>Bob> >> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs= > > > p; > > > > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = > > > > size=3D2>_______________________________________________________________ > _= > > > _____________ > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: > > This Weber-Stephen Products = > > > Company e-mail is intended only for > > the use of the individual or = > > > entity to which it is addressed and may > > contain information that is = > > > privileged, confidential and exempt from > > disclosure under applicable = > > > law. If the reader of this e-mail message > > is not the intended = > > > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible > > for delivery of the = > > > message to the intended recipient, you are hereby > > notified that any = > > > dissemination, distribution or copying of this > > communication is = > > > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > > please notify = > > > us immediately by e-mail at > > href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D2>legal@weberstephen.com > > > color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank > = > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94-- > > > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > > > Message: 2 > > > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > > > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:14:30 -0500 > > > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01" > > > To: > > > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > > > > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6 > > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if > = > > > anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 > what = > > > year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have > been = > > > built in the same year as mine. > > > =20 > > > Thanks, > > > Frank Albert > > > =20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com = > > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, > Francis = > > > X CIV SEA 01 > > > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09 > > > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > > > =20 > > > Bob, > > > =20 > > > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer > water = > > > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat > there = > > > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would = > > > suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these = > > > discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the > keel = > > > like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping > out. = > > > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the > keel and = > > > hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year > is = > > > to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it > with = > > > 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then > = > > > next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel > by = > > > about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them > a = > > > couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull > = > > > just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the > keel. = > > > Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in > the = > > > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel > up = > > > being the 5200. > > > =20 > > > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it. > > > =20 > > > Thanks, > > > Frank Albert > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com = > > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan > Heyward > > > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03 > > > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > > > =20 > > > Bob > > > =20 > > > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. > I've = > > > read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of > = > > > things to add, based on my experience: > > > =20 > > > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the > = > > > stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which > the = > > > keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't > know = > > > for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some > may = > > > not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a = > > > potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at > the = > > > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only > contribute = > > > to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the > bilge: = > > > the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and > hull, = > > > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear > in = > > > the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and > = > > > that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at > the = > > > hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other > = > > > thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on > at = > > > least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the > = > > > bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the > keel = > > > bolts. > > > =20 > > > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail > and = > > > race. > > > =20 > > > Allan M. Heyward, Jr. > > > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C. > > > 804-747-4500 > > > =20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com = > > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, > Robert > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM > > > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 > > > =20 > > > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33. > > > =20 > > > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in = > > > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these > boats? > > > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is = > > > this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite? > > > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for? > > > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull = > > > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding. > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > I live in the Chicago area > > > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to > look = > > > for" > > > =20 > > > Bob > > > =20 > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > _= > > > ____ > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: > > > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for > > > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and > may > > > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt > from > > > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail > message > > > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible > > > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are > hereby > > > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this > > > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in > error, > > > please notify us immediately by e-mail at = > > > legal@weberstephen.com > > > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. > > > > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6 > > > Content-Type: text/html; > > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = > > > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> > > > > > > > > > > charset=3Diso-8859-1"> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > color=3D"#993366" > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family: > > > Arial'>Alright big question is where all these boats made the same > and = > > > if > > > anyone knows of a different version.> yes"> > > > Allen your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built?> > style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Wild thing was number 37 and = > > > may have > > > been built in the same year as mine. > > > > > > > > > > > color=3D"#993366" > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family: > > > Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]> > > > > > > > > > > > color=3D"#993366" > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family: > > > Arial'>Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > color=3D"#993366" > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family: > > > Arial'>Frank Albert > > > > > > > > > > > color=3D"#993366" > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family: > > > Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]> > > > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message----- > > > > > From: > > > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com = > > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font- > weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV = > > > SEA 01 > > > > > Sent: Friday, February = > > > 03, 2006 > > > 7:09 > > > > > To: = > > > frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > > > > Subject: RE: = > > > [frers-list]questions > > > on a purchase of a frers 33 > > > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]> > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo= > > > b, > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if = > > > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]> > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My= > > > boat > > > may have that new crack problem. = > > > I > > > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.> > style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the = > > > boat > > > there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you > would = > > > suppose > > > the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these > discussions = > > > someone > > > mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to > 12 = > > > inches) > > > and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes"> > > > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the = > > > keel and > > > hull joint are right at that crack.> yes"> > > > Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and = > > > then > > > grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using = > > > alcohol.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that = > > > doesn't work > > > then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the > keel = > > > by > > > about 3 inches. Their = > > > experience > > > with this process has taught them a couple of things.> style=3D"mso- > spacerun: > > > yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull = > > > just this > > > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.> > style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not = > > > want to > > > let go. They've had boats = > > > in the > > > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel > up = > > > being the > > > 5200. > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if = > > > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]> > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If= > > > anyone > > > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about = > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if = > > > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]> > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th= > > > anks, > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr= > > > ank > > > Albert > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if = > > > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]> > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> pan > > > style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> = > > > > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font- > size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if = > > > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]> > > > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message----- > > > > > From: = > > > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com > > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font- > weight:bold'>On > > > Behalf Of Allan Heyward > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February = > > > 02, 2006 > > > 12:03 > > > > > To: = > > > frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > > > > Subject: RE: = > > > [frers-list]questions > > > on a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color:black;mso-color- > alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>> ! > supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that > sails = > > > and > > > races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read Frank’s = > > > response on your question > > > 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my = > > > experience:> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color- > alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the > transverse > > > stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the > leading = > > > edge of > > > the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of > transition = > > > into the > > > hull. I don’t know for certain if this will be true on all = > > > boats, as I > > > understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it > exists, > > > it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading = > > > edge > > > of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that > will = > > > not only > > > contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a > path to = > > > the > > > bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between > keel and = > > > hull, > > > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear > in = > > > the > > > hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and = > > > that you > > > should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. > = > > > The > > > fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to > = > > > check > > > is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one > boat = > > > (mine) > > > there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that > caused > > > substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is > strong = > > > as an > > > ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, = > > > Jr.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color- > alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & = > > > FEEHAN, > > > P.C.> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt: > > > windowtext'> > > > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'font-size: > > > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DTahoma>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original > > > Message----- > > > > > From: > > > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com = > > > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D'font- > weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February = > > > 01, 2006 > > > 7:02 AM > > > > > To: = > > > frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > > > > Subject: = > > > [frers-list]questions on > > > a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color: > > > black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'> > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> > > color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Arial;color:black'>I am > > > currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > > > color:black'>1)> style=3D'font-size: > > > 7.0pt;color:black'> = > > > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font- > size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > > > color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring > issues = > > > in > > > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these = > > > boats?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color- > alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > > > color:black'>2)> style=3D'font-size: > > > 7.0pt;color:black'> = > > > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font- > size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > > > color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a > tiller is = > > > this reasonable > > > or does the installation look like a morphidite?> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > > > color:black'>3)> style=3D'font-size: > > > 7.0pt;color:black'> = > > > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font- > size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > > > color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?> > color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > > > color:black'>4)> style=3D'font-size: > > > 7.0pt;color:black'> = > > > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font- > size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; > > > color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to > hull = > > > design > > > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Arial;color:black'>I live > > > in the Chicago area> style=3D'color:black; > > > mso-color-alt:windowtext'> > > > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks > > > for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look = > > > for”> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color- > alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Arial;color:black'>Bob> >> color=3Dblack>> > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > color=3Dblack > > > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font- > family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs= > > > p; > > > > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><= > > > /p> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = > > > > size=3D2>_______________________________________________________________ > _= > > > _____________ > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: > > This Weber-Stephen Products = > > > Company e-mail is intended only for > > the use of the individual or = > > > entity to which it is addressed and may > > contain information that is = > > > privileged, confidential and exempt from > > disclosure under applicable = > > > law. If the reader of this e-mail message > > is not the intended = > > > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible > > for delivery of the = > > > message to the intended recipient, you are hereby > > notified that any = > > > dissemination, distribution or copying of this > > communication is = > > > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > > please notify = > > > us immediately by e-mail at > > href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D2>legal@weberstephen.com > > > color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank > = > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6-- > > > > > > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > frers-list mailing list > > > frers-list@lists.frers33.com > > > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list > > > > > > > > > End of frers-list Digest > > > > -- > Allan M. Heyward, Jr. > Cook Heyward Lonnes Lee & Hopper, P.C. > P.O. Box 29629 > Richmond VA, 23242 > 804.747.4500 > Fax: 804.762.9608 > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > frers-list mailing list > frers-list@lists.frers33.com > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list > > > End of frers-list Digest
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_25447_1139100440_0--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Sun Feb 5 03:41:03 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Arthur Kelley)
Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 22:41:03 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs
References: <200602042359.k14Nxd125837@chllh.com>
Message-ID: <002d01c62a05$fe157520$674da8c0@art8100>
Allan,
If you send me the pics along with any descriptions you can muster, I'll put
something together and link it to the FAQ page. I think this would be an
outstanding contribution to the class.
Thanks,
Art
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan M Heyward"
To: ;
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs
>
> Frank
>
> If your keel is mounted flush to the hull, it sounds like there was a
> fundamental change in construction somewhere along the way, resulting,
> I'd guess, in far shallower bilge than I have. I'd be happy to forward
> the pictures from my 2 adventures with the keel root (keel removal
> in '02 and the leak repair in '05) detailing the construction of #14,
> to the website or archival purposes and the common weal. Let me know.
>
> Allan
>>
>>
>> Allen,
>> My yard had to drop the keel last year because of a grounding that
> looked like it kicked the keel off to port by about 5 degrees.
> Additionally I had a crack in the hull just forward of where the
> leading edge of the keel joins the hull. They put the hull up on jack
> stands and they said it normally takes about 5 hours of wailing on the
> top of the keel bolts with a sledge hammer to loosen it. In my case
> they took three wacks and it dropped right off. So much for 5200.
>> Frank Wittosch
>> Pepperke 2.0
>>
>> -------------- Original message --------------
>> From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
>>
>> > Send frers-list mailing list submissions to
>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> >
>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> > frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
>> >
>> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
>> >
>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> > than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."
>> >
>> >
>> > Today's Topics:
>> >
>> > 1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV
> SEA 01)
>> > 2. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV
> SEA 01)
>> >
>> > --__--__--
>> >
>> > Message: 1
>> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:08:37 -0500
>> > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"
>> > To:
>> > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> >
>> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>> >
>> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94
>> > Content-Type: text/plain;
>> > charset="iso-8859-1"
>> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> >
>> > Bob,
>> > =20
>> > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer
> water =
>> > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat
> there =
>> > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
>> > suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
>> > discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the
> keel =
>> > like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping
> out. =
>> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the
> keel and =
>> > hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year
> is =
>> > to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it
> with =
>> > 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then
> =
>> > next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel
> by =
>> > about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them
> a =
>> > couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull
> =
>> > just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the
> keel. =
>> > Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in
> the =
>> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
> up =
>> > being the 5200.
>> > =20
>> > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
>> > =20
>> > Thanks,
>> > Frank Albert
>> > =20
>> > =20
>> > =20
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan
> Heyward
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
>> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > =20
>> > Bob
>> > =20
>> > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay.
> I've =
>> > read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of
> =
>> > things to add, based on my experience:
>> > =20
>> > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the
> =
>> > stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which
> the =
>> > keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't
> know =
>> > for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some
> may =
>> > not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
>> > potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at
> the =
>> > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only
> contribute =
>> > to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the
> bilge: =
>> > the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and
> hull, =
>> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
> in =
>> > the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and
> =
>> > that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at
> the =
>> > hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other
> =
>> > thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on
> at =
>> > least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the
> =
>> > bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the
> keel =
>> > bolts.
>> > =20
>> > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail
> and =
>> > race.
>> > =20
>> > Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
>> > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
>> > 804-747-4500
>> > =20
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen,
> Robert
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
>> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > =20
>> > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
>> > =20
>> > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
>> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these
> boats?
>> > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
>> > this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
>> > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
>> > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
>> > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
>> > =20
>> > =20
>> > I live in the Chicago area
>> > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to
> look =
>> > for"
>> > =20
>> > Bob
>> > =20
>> >
>> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> _=
>> > ____
>> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
>> > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
>> > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and
> may
>> > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt
> from
>> > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail
> message
>> > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
>> > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are
> hereby
>> > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>> > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in
> error,
>> > please notify us immediately by e-mail at =
>> > legal@weberstephen.com
>> > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
>> >
>> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94
>> > Content-Type: text/html;
>> > charset="iso-8859-1"
>> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> >
>> > > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
>> > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
>> >
>> >
>> > > charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=
>> > b,
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=
>> > boat
>> > may have that new crack problem. =
>> > I
>> > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.>
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =
>> > boat
>> > there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you
> would =
>> > suppose
>> > the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these
> discussions =
>> > someone
>> > mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to
> 12 =
>> > inches)
>> > and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes">
>> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =
>> > keel and
>> > hull joint are right at that crack.> yes">
>> > Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =
>> > then grind
>> > out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol.>
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =
>> > doesn't work
>> > then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the
> keel =
>> > by
>> > about 3 inches. Their =
>> > experience
>> > with this process has taught them a couple of things.> style=3D"mso-
> spacerun:
>> > yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
>> > just this
>> > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.>
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =
>> > want to
>> > let go. They've had boats =
>> > in the
>> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
> up =
>> > being the
>> > 5200.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=
>> > anyone
>> > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =
>> > it.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=
>> > anks,
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=
>> > ank
>> > Albert
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> pan
>> > style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> > yes">
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
>>
>> > From:
>> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
>>
>> > Sent: Thursday, February =
>> > 02, 2006
>> > 12:03
>>
>> > To: =
>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>
>> > Subject: RE: =
>> > [frers-list]questions
>> > on a purchase of a frers 33
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that
> sails =
>> > and
>> > races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've read Frank's =
>> > response on your question
>> > 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =
>> > experience:> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the
> transverse =
>> > stringer
>> > leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading edge
> of the =
>> > keel
>> > sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition into
> the =
>> > hull.
>> > I don't know for certain if this will be true on all boats, =
>> > as I
>> > understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it
> exists,
>> > it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =
>> > edge
>> > of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that
> will =
>> > not only
>> > contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a
> path to =
>> > the
>> > bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between
> keel and =
>> > hull,
>> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
> in =
>> > the
>> > hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
>> > that you
>> > should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull.
> =
>> > The
>> > fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to
> =
>> > check
>> > is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one
> boat =
>> > (mine)
>> > there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that
> caused
>> > substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is
> strong =
>> > as an
>> > ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =
>> > Jr.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =
>> > FEEHAN,
>> > P.C.> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
>> > windowtext'>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DTahoma>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
>> > Message-----
>>
>> > From:
>> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
>>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February =
>> > 01, 2006
>> > 7:02 AM
>>
>> > To: =
>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>
>> > Subject: =
>> > [frers-list]questions on
>> > a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color:
>> > black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
>> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>I am
>> > currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>1)> style=3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
>> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring
> issues =
>> > in
>> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
>> > boats?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>2)> style=3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
>> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a
> tiller is =
>> > this
>> > reasonable or does the installation look like a =
>> > morphidite?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>3)> style=3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
>> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?>
> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>4)> style=3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
>> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to
> hull =
>> > design
>> > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>I live
>> > in the Chicago area> style=3D'color:black;
>> > mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks
>> > for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =
>> > for"> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>Bob> >> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs=
>> > p;
>> > > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> > face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
>> >
> size=3D2>_______________________________________________________________
> _=
>> > _____________
>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
>> This Weber-Stephen Products =
>> > Company e-mail is intended only for
>> the use of the individual or =
>> > entity to which it is addressed and may
>> contain information that is =
>> > privileged, confidential and exempt from
>> disclosure under applicable =
>> > law. If the reader of this e-mail message
>> is not the intended =
>> > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
>> for delivery of the =
>> > message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
>> notified that any =
>> > dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>> communication is =
>> > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
>> please notify =
>> > us immediately by e-mail at >
> href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
>> > color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank
> =
>> > you.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94--
>> >
>> > --__--__--
>> >
>> > Message: 2
>> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:14:30 -0500
>> > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"
>> > To:
>> > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> >
>> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>> >
>> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6
>> > Content-Type: text/plain;
>> > charset="iso-8859-1"
>> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> >
>> > Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if
> =
>> > anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14
> what =
>> > year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have
> been =
>> > built in the same year as mine.
>> > =20
>> > Thanks,
>> > Frank Albert
>> > =20
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert,
> Francis =
>> > X CIV SEA 01
>> > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
>> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > =20
>> > Bob,
>> > =20
>> > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer
> water =
>> > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat
> there =
>> > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
>> > suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
>> > discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the
> keel =
>> > like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping
> out. =
>> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the
> keel and =
>> > hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year
> is =
>> > to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it
> with =
>> > 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then
> =
>> > next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel
> by =
>> > about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them
> a =
>> > couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull
> =
>> > just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the
> keel. =
>> > Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in
> the =
>> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
> up =
>> > being the 5200.
>> > =20
>> > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
>> > =20
>> > Thanks,
>> > Frank Albert
>> > =20
>> > =20
>> > =20
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan
> Heyward
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
>> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > =20
>> > Bob
>> > =20
>> > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay.
> I've =
>> > read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of
> =
>> > things to add, based on my experience:
>> > =20
>> > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the
> =
>> > stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which
> the =
>> > keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't
> know =
>> > for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some
> may =
>> > not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
>> > potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at
> the =
>> > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only
> contribute =
>> > to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the
> bilge: =
>> > the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and
> hull, =
>> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
> in =
>> > the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and
> =
>> > that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at
> the =
>> > hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other
> =
>> > thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on
> at =
>> > least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the
> =
>> > bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the
> keel =
>> > bolts.
>> > =20
>> > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail
> and =
>> > race.
>> > =20
>> > Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
>> > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
>> > 804-747-4500
>> > =20
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen,
> Robert
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
>> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > =20
>> > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
>> > =20
>> > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
>> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these
> boats?
>> > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
>> > this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
>> > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
>> > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
>> > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
>> > =20
>> > =20
>> > I live in the Chicago area
>> > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to
> look =
>> > for"
>> > =20
>> > Bob
>> > =20
>> >
>> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> _=
>> > ____
>> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
>> > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
>> > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and
> may
>> > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt
> from
>> > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail
> message
>> > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
>> > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are
> hereby
>> > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>> > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in
> error,
>> > please notify us immediately by e-mail at =
>> > legal@weberstephen.com
>> > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
>> >
>> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6
>> > Content-Type: text/html;
>> > charset="iso-8859-1"
>> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> >
>> > > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
>> > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
>> >
>> >
>> > > charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D"#993366"
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
>> > Arial'>Alright big question is where all these boats made the same
> and =
>> > if
>> > anyone knows of a different version.> yes">
>> > Allen your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built?>
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Wild thing was number 37 and =
>> > may have
>> > been built in the same year as mine.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D"#993366"
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
>> > Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D"#993366"
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
>> > Arial'>Thanks,
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D"#993366"
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
>> > Arial'>Frank Albert
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D"#993366"
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
>> > Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
>>
>> > From:
>> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV =
>> > SEA 01
>>
>> > Sent: Friday, February =
>> > 03, 2006
>> > 7:09
>>
>> > To: =
>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>
>> > Subject: RE: =
>> > [frers-list]questions
>> > on a purchase of a frers 33
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=
>> > b,
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=
>> > boat
>> > may have that new crack problem. =
>> > I
>> > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.>
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =
>> > boat
>> > there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you
> would =
>> > suppose
>> > the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these
> discussions =
>> > someone
>> > mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to
> 12 =
>> > inches)
>> > and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes">
>> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =
>> > keel and
>> > hull joint are right at that crack.> yes">
>> > Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =
>> > then
>> > grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using =
>> > alcohol.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =
>> > doesn't work
>> > then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the
> keel =
>> > by
>> > about 3 inches. Their =
>> > experience
>> > with this process has taught them a couple of things.> style=3D"mso-
> spacerun:
>> > yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
>> > just this
>> > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.>
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =
>> > want to
>> > let go. They've had boats =
>> > in the
>> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
> up =
>> > being the
>> > 5200.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=
>> > anyone
>> > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =
>> > it.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=
>> > anks,
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=
>> > ank
>> > Albert
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> pan
>> > style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
>>
>> > From: =
>> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On
>> > Behalf Of Allan Heyward
>>
>> > Sent: Thursday, February =
>> > 02, 2006
>> > 12:03
>>
>> > To: =
>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>
>> > Subject: RE: =
>> > [frers-list]questions
>> > on a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>> !
> supportEmptyParas]> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that
> sails =
>> > and
>> > races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've read Frank's =
>> > response on your question
>> > 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =
>> > experience:> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the
> transverse
>> > stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the
> leading =
>> > edge of
>> > the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of
> transition =
>> > into the
>> > hull. I don't know for certain if this will be true on all =
>> > boats, as I
>> > understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it
> exists,
>> > it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =
>> > edge
>> > of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that
> will =
>> > not only
>> > contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a
> path to =
>> > the
>> > bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between
> keel and =
>> > hull,
>> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
> in =
>> > the
>> > hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
>> > that you
>> > should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull.
> =
>> > The
>> > fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to
> =
>> > check
>> > is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one
> boat =
>> > (mine)
>> > there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that
> caused
>> > substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is
> strong =
>> > as an
>> > ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =
>> > Jr.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =
>> > FEEHAN,
>> > P.C.> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
>> > windowtext'>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DTahoma>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
>> > Message-----
>>
>> > From:
>> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
>>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February =
>> > 01, 2006
>> > 7:02 AM
>>
>> > To: =
>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>
>> > Subject: =
>> > [frers-list]questions on
>> > a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color:
>> > black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
>> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>I am
>> > currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>1)> style=3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
>> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring
> issues =
>> > in
>> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
>> > boats?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>2)> style=3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
>> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a
> tiller is =
>> > this reasonable
>> > or does the installation look like a morphidite?> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>3)> style=3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
>> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?>
> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>4)> style=3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
>> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to
> hull =
>> > design
>> > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>I live
>> > in the Chicago area> style=3D'color:black;
>> > mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks
>> > for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =
>> > for"> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>Bob> >> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs=
>> > p;
>> > > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> > face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
>> >
> size=3D2>_______________________________________________________________
> _=
>> > _____________
>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
>> This Weber-Stephen Products =
>> > Company e-mail is intended only for
>> the use of the individual or =
>> > entity to which it is addressed and may
>> contain information that is =
>> > privileged, confidential and exempt from
>> disclosure under applicable =
>> > law. If the reader of this e-mail message
>> is not the intended =
>> > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
>> for delivery of the =
>> > message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
>> notified that any =
>> > dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>> communication is =
>> > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
>> please notify =
>> > us immediately by e-mail at >
> href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
>> > color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank
> =
>> > you.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6--
>> >
>> >
>> > --__--__--
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > frers-list mailing list
>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>> >
>> >
>> > End of frers-list Digest
>>
>
> --
> Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
> Cook Heyward Lonnes Lee & Hopper, P.C.
> P.O. Box 29629
> Richmond VA, 23242
> 804.747.4500
> Fax: 804.762.9608
> _______________________________________________
> frers-list mailing list
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Mon Feb 6 12:00:18 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 07:00:18 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs
Message-ID: <739F9600DCB1FF47AFEA52036723D46102F24E59@naeanrfkez09.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil>
Allen,
Turns out my keel is the same as all the other keels. The yard striped =
off the glass on the leading edge and found a crack like yours but only =
in the front of the keel so my repair looks like it will be under a =
$1000. Thanks for the pictures they were a great save. My yard had =
thought the keel bolted directly to the bottom of the boat they were =
surprised by the stump.
Frank Albert
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Allan M =
Heyward
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 19:00
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com; frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs
Frank
If your keel is mounted flush to the hull, it sounds like there was a=20
fundamental change in construction somewhere along the way, resulting,=20
I'd guess, in far shallower bilge than I have. I'd be happy to forward=20
the pictures from my 2 adventures with the keel root (keel removal=20
in '02 and the leak repair in '05) detailing the construction of #14,=20
to the website or archival purposes and the common weal. Let me know.
Allan
>=20
>=20
> Allen,
> My yard had to drop the keel last year because of a grounding that=20
looked like it kicked the keel off to port by about 5 degrees.=20
Additionally I had a crack in the hull just forward of where the=20
leading edge of the keel joins the hull. They put the hull up on jack=20
stands and they said it normally takes about 5 hours of wailing on the=20
top of the keel bolts with a sledge hammer to loosen it. In my case=20
they took three wacks and it dropped right off. So much for 5200.=20
> Frank Wittosch
> Pepperke 2.0=20
>=20
> -------------- Original message --------------=20
> From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com=20
>=20
> > Send frers-list mailing list submissions to=20
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> >=20
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit=20
> > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list=20
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to=20
> > frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com=20
> >=20
> > You can reach the person managing the list at=20
> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
> >=20
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific=20
> > than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > Today's Topics:=20
> >=20
> > 1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV=20
SEA 01)=20
> > 2. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV=20
SEA 01)=20
> >=20
> > --__--__--=20
> >=20
> > Message: 1=20
> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:08:37 -0500=20
> > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"=20
> > To:=20
> > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> >=20
> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.=20
> >=20
> > ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94=20
> > Content-Type: text/plain;=20
> > charset=3D"iso-8859-1"=20
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
> >=20
> > Bob,=20
> > =3D20=20
> > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer=20
water =3D=20
> > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat=20
there =3D=20
> > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
=3D=20
> > suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
=3D=20
> > discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the=20
keel =3D=20
> > like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping=20
out. =3D=20
> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the=20
keel and =3D=20
> > hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year=20
is =3D=20
> > to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it=20
with =3D=20
> > 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then=20
=3D=20
> > next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel=20
by =3D=20
> > about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them=20
a =3D=20
> > couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull=20
=3D=20
> > just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the=20
keel. =3D=20
> > Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in=20
the =3D=20
> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel=20
up =3D=20
> > being the 5200.=20
> > =3D20=20
> > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.=20
> > =3D20=20
> > Thanks,=20
> > Frank Albert=20
> > =3D20=20
> > =3D20=20
> > =3D20=20
> > -----Original Message-----=20
> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan=20
Heyward=20
> > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03=20
> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> > =3D20=20
> > Bob=20
> > =3D20=20
> > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay.=20
I've =3D=20
> > read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of=20
=3D=20
> > things to add, based on my experience:=20
> > =3D20=20
> > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the=20
=3D=20
> > stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which=20
the =3D=20
> > keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't=20
know =3D=20
> > for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some=20
may =3D=20
> > not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
=3D=20
> > potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at=20
the =3D=20
> > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only=20
contribute =3D=20
> > to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the=20
bilge: =3D=20
> > the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and=20
hull, =3D=20
> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear=20
in =3D=20
> > the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and=20
=3D=20
> > that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at=20
the =3D=20
> > hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other=20
=3D=20
> > thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on=20
at =3D=20
> > least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the=20
=3D=20
> > bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the=20
keel =3D=20
> > bolts.=20
> > =3D20=20
> > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail=20
and =3D=20
> > race.=20
> > =3D20=20
> > Allan M. Heyward, Jr.=20
> > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.=20
> > 804-747-4500=20
> > =3D20=20
> > -----Original Message-----=20
> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen,=20
Robert=20
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM=20
> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> > =3D20=20
> > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.=20
> > =3D20=20
> > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
=3D=20
> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these=20
boats?=20
> > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =3D=20
> > this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?=20
> > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?=20
> > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =3D=20
> > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.=20
> > =3D20=20
> > =3D20=20
> > I live in the Chicago area=20
> > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to=20
look =3D=20
> > for"=20
> > =3D20=20
> > Bob=20
> > =3D20=20
> >=20
> >=20
________________________________________________________________________
_=3D=20
> > ____=20
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:=20
> > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for=20
> > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and=20
may=20
> > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt=20
from=20
> > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail=20
message=20
> > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible=20
> > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are=20
hereby=20
> > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this=20
> > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in=20
error,=20
> > please notify us immediately by e-mail at =3D=20
> > legal@weberstephen.com=20
> > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.=20
> >=20
> > ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94=20
> > Content-Type: text/html;=20
> > charset=3D"iso-8859-1"=20
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
> >=20
> > > xmlns:w=3D3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =3D=20
> > xmlns=3D3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > > charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > > style=3D3D'tab-interval:.5in'>=20
> >=20
> >=20
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=3D=20
> > b,
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D=20
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=3D=20
> > boat=20
> > may have that new crack problem. =3D=20
> > I=20
> > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =3D=20
> > boat=20
> > there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you=20
would =3D=20
> > suppose=20
> > the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these=20
discussions =3D=20
> > someone=20
> > mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to=20
12 =3D=20
> > inches)=20
> > and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes"> =20
> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =3D=20
> > keel and=20
> > hull joint are right at that crack.> yes"> =20
> > Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =3D=20
> > then grind=20
> > out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol.>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =3D=20
> > doesn't work=20
> > then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the=20
keel =3D=20
> > by=20
> > about 3 inches. Their =3D=20
> > experience=20
> > with this process has taught them a couple of things.> =
style=3D3D"mso-
spacerun:=20
> > yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =3D=20
> > just this=20
> > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =3D=20
> > want to=20
> > let go. They've had boats =3D=20
> > in the=20
> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel=20
up =3D=20
> > being the=20
> > 5200.
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D=20
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=3D=20
> > anyone=20
> > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =3D=20
> > it.
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D=20
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=3D=20
> > anks,
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=3D=20
> > ank=20
> > Albert
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D=20
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> pan=20
> > style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> > yes"> =20
> >=20
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D=20
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
>=20
> > From:=20
> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D3D'font-
weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
>=20
> > Sent: Thursday, February =3D=20
> > 02, 2006=20
> > 12:03
>=20
> > To: =3D=20
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>=20
> > Subject: RE: =3D=20
> > [frers-list]questions=20
> > on a purchase of a frers 33
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that=20
sails =3D=20
> > and=20
> > races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've read Frank's =3D=20
> > response on your question=20
> > 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =3D=20
> > experience:> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the=20
transverse =3D=20
> > stringer=20
> > leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading edge=20
of the =3D=20
> > keel=20
> > sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition into=20
the =3D=20
> > hull.=20
> > I don't know for certain if this will be true on all boats, =3D=20
> > as I=20
> > understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it=20
exists,=20
> > it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =3D=20
> > edge=20
> > of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that=20
will =3D=20
> > not only=20
> > contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a=20
path to =3D=20
> > the=20
> > bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between=20
keel and =3D=20
> > hull,=20
> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear=20
in =3D=20
> > the=20
> > hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =3D =
> > that you=20
> > should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. =20
=3D=20
> > The=20
> > fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to=20
=3D=20
> > check=20
> > is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one=20
boat =3D=20
> > (mine)=20
> > there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that=20
caused=20
> > substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3D3Dblack>> =
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is=20
strong =3D=20
> > as an=20
> > ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =3D=20
> > Jr.> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =
=3D=20
> > FEEHAN,=20
> > P.C.> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:=20
> > windowtext'>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500> color=3D3Dblack>> =
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DTahoma>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original=20
> > Message-----
>=20
> > From:=20
> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D3D'font-
weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
>=20
> > Sent: Wednesday, February =3D=20
> > 01, 2006=20
> > 7:02 AM
>=20
> > To: =3D=20
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>=20
> > Subject: =3D=20
> > [frers-list]questions on=20
> > a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D3D'color:=20
> > black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3D"Times New Roman">> =
style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>=20
> color=3D3Dblack>> =
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>I am=20
> > currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> > color:black'>1)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> > color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring=20
issues =3D=20
> > in=20
> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
=3D=20
> > boats?> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> > color:black'>2)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> > color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a=20
tiller is =3D=20
> > this=20
> > reasonable or does the installation look like a =3D=20
> > morphidite?> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> > color:black'>3)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> > color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?>=20
color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> > color:black'>4)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> > color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to=20
hull =3D=20
> > design=20
> > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>I live=20
> > in the Chicago area> style=3D3D'color:black;=20
> > mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks=20
> > for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =3D=20
> > for"> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>Bob> >> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs=3D=20
> > p; =20
> > > style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D=20
> >=20
size=3D3D2>______________________________________________________________=
_
_=3D=20
> > _____________
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> This Weber-Stephen Products =3D=20
> > Company e-mail is intended only for
> the use of the individual or =3D=20
> > entity to which it is addressed and may
> contain information that is =3D=20
> > privileged, confidential and exempt from
> disclosure under applicable =3D=20
> > law. If the reader of this e-mail message
> is not the intended =3D=20
> > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> for delivery of the =3D=20
> > message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any =3D=20
> > dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is =3D=20
> > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> please notify =3D=20
> > us immediately by e-mail at >=20
href=3D3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> =
size=3D3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
> > color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. =
Thank=20
=3D=20
> > you.
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94--=20
> >=20
> > --__--__--=20
> >=20
> > Message: 2=20
> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:14:30 -0500=20
> > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"=20
> > To:=20
> > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> >=20
> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.=20
> >=20
> > ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6=20
> > Content-Type: text/plain;=20
> > charset=3D"iso-8859-1"=20
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
> >=20
> > Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if=20
=3D=20
> > anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14=20
what =3D=20
> > year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have=20
been =3D=20
> > built in the same year as mine.=20
> > =3D20=20
> > Thanks,=20
> > Frank Albert=20
> > =3D20=20
> > -----Original Message-----=20
> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert,=20
Francis =3D=20
> > X CIV SEA 01=20
> > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09=20
> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> > =3D20=20
> > Bob,=20
> > =3D20=20
> > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer=20
water =3D=20
> > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat=20
there =3D=20
> > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
=3D=20
> > suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
=3D=20
> > discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the=20
keel =3D=20
> > like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping=20
out. =3D=20
> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the=20
keel and =3D=20
> > hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year=20
is =3D=20
> > to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it=20
with =3D=20
> > 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then=20
=3D=20
> > next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel=20
by =3D=20
> > about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them=20
a =3D=20
> > couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull=20
=3D=20
> > just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the=20
keel. =3D=20
> > Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in=20
the =3D=20
> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel=20
up =3D=20
> > being the 5200.=20
> > =3D20=20
> > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.=20
> > =3D20=20
> > Thanks,=20
> > Frank Albert=20
> > =3D20=20
> > =3D20=20
> > =3D20=20
> > -----Original Message-----=20
> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan=20
Heyward=20
> > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03=20
> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> > =3D20=20
> > Bob=20
> > =3D20=20
> > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay.=20
I've =3D=20
> > read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of=20
=3D=20
> > things to add, based on my experience:=20
> > =3D20=20
> > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the=20
=3D=20
> > stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which=20
the =3D=20
> > keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't=20
know =3D=20
> > for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some=20
may =3D=20
> > not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
=3D=20
> > potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at=20
the =3D=20
> > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only=20
contribute =3D=20
> > to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the=20
bilge: =3D=20
> > the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and=20
hull, =3D=20
> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear=20
in =3D=20
> > the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and=20
=3D=20
> > that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at=20
the =3D=20
> > hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other=20
=3D=20
> > thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on=20
at =3D=20
> > least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the=20
=3D=20
> > bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the=20
keel =3D=20
> > bolts.=20
> > =3D20=20
> > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail=20
and =3D=20
> > race.=20
> > =3D20=20
> > Allan M. Heyward, Jr.=20
> > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.=20
> > 804-747-4500=20
> > =3D20=20
> > -----Original Message-----=20
> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen,=20
Robert=20
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM=20
> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33=20
> > =3D20=20
> > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.=20
> > =3D20=20
> > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
=3D=20
> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these=20
boats?=20
> > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =3D=20
> > this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?=20
> > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?=20
> > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =3D=20
> > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.=20
> > =3D20=20
> > =3D20=20
> > I live in the Chicago area=20
> > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to=20
look =3D=20
> > for"=20
> > =3D20=20
> > Bob=20
> > =3D20=20
> >=20
> >=20
________________________________________________________________________
_=3D=20
> > ____=20
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:=20
> > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for=20
> > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and=20
may=20
> > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt=20
from=20
> > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail=20
message=20
> > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible=20
> > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are=20
hereby=20
> > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this=20
> > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in=20
error,=20
> > please notify us immediately by e-mail at =3D=20
> > legal@weberstephen.com=20
> > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.=20
> >=20
> > ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6=20
> > Content-Type: text/html;=20
> > charset=3D"iso-8859-1"=20
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable=20
> >=20
> > > xmlns:w=3D3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =3D=20
> > xmlns=3D3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > > charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > > style=3D3D'tab-interval:.5in'>=20
> >=20
> >=20
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3D"#993366"=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:=20
> > Arial'>Alright big question is where all these boats made the same=20
and =3D=20
> > if=20
> > anyone knows of a different version.> yes"> =20
> > Allen your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built?>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Wild thing was number 37 and =3D=20
> > may have=20
> > been built in the same year as mine.
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3D"#993366"=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:=20
> > Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3D"#993366"=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:=20
> > Arial'>Thanks,
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3D"#993366"=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:=20
> > Arial'>Frank Albert
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3D"#993366"=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:=20
> > Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
>=20
> > From:=20
> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D3D'font-
weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV =3D=20
> > SEA 01
>=20
> > Sent: Friday, February =3D=20
> > 03, 2006=20
> > 7:09
>=20
> > To: =3D=20
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>=20
> > Subject: RE: =3D=20
> > [frers-list]questions=20
> > on a purchase of a frers 33
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=3D=20
> > b,
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D=20
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=3D=20
> > boat=20
> > may have that new crack problem. =3D=20
> > I=20
> > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =3D=20
> > boat=20
> > there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you=20
would =3D=20
> > suppose=20
> > the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these=20
discussions =3D=20
> > someone=20
> > mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to=20
12 =3D=20
> > inches)=20
> > and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes"> =20
> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =3D=20
> > keel and=20
> > hull joint are right at that crack.> yes"> =20
> > Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =3D=20
> > then=20
> > grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using =3D=20
> > alcohol.> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =3D=20
> > doesn't work=20
> > then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the=20
keel =3D=20
> > by=20
> > about 3 inches. Their =3D=20
> > experience=20
> > with this process has taught them a couple of things.> =
style=3D3D"mso-
spacerun:=20
> > yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =3D=20
> > just this=20
> > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.>=20
style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =3D=20
> > want to=20
> > let go. They've had boats =3D=20
> > in the=20
> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel=20
up =3D=20
> > being the=20
> > 5200.
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D=20
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=3D=20
> > anyone=20
> > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =3D=20
> > it.
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D=20
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=3D=20
> > anks,
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=3D=20
> > ank=20
> > Albert
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D=20
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> pan=20
> > style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =3D=20
> >=20
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D=20
> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
>=20
> > From: =3D=20
> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D3D'font-
weight:bold'>On=20
> > Behalf Of Allan Heyward
>=20
> > Sent: Thursday, February =3D=20
> > 02, 2006=20
> > 12:03
>=20
> > To: =3D=20
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>=20
> > Subject: RE: =3D=20
> > [frers-list]questions=20
> > on a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > Roman">> style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>> !
supportEmptyParas]> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that=20
sails =3D=20
> > and=20
> > races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've read Frank's =3D=20
> > response on your question=20
> > 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =3D=20
> > experience:> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the=20
transverse=20
> > stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the=20
leading =3D=20
> > edge of=20
> > the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of=20
transition =3D=20
> > into the=20
> > hull. I don't know for certain if this will be true on all =3D=20
> > boats, as I=20
> > understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it=20
exists,=20
> > it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =3D=20
> > edge=20
> > of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that=20
will =3D=20
> > not only=20
> > contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a=20
path to =3D=20
> > the=20
> > bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between=20
keel and =3D=20
> > hull,=20
> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear=20
in =3D=20
> > the=20
> > hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =3D =
> > that you=20
> > should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. =20
=3D=20
> > The=20
> > fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to=20
=3D=20
> > check=20
> > is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one=20
boat =3D=20
> > (mine)=20
> > there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that=20
caused=20
> > substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3D3Dblack>> =
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is=20
strong =3D=20
> > as an=20
> > ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =3D=20
> > Jr.> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =
=3D=20
> > FEEHAN,=20
> > P.C.> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:=20
> > windowtext'>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500> color=3D3Dblack>> =
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DTahoma>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original=20
> > Message-----
>=20
> > From:=20
> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D=20
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D3D'font-
weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
>=20
> > Sent: Wednesday, February =3D=20
> > 01, 2006=20
> > 7:02 AM
>=20
> > To: =3D=20
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>=20
> > Subject: =3D=20
> > [frers-list]questions on=20
> > a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D3D'color:=20
> > black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3D"Times New Roman">> =
style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>=20
> color=3D3Dblack>> =
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>I am=20
> > currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> > color:black'>1)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> > color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring=20
issues =3D=20
> > in=20
> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
=3D=20
> > boats?> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> > color:black'>2)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> > color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a=20
tiller is =3D=20
> > this reasonable=20
> > or does the installation look like a morphidite?> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> > color:black'>3)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> > color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?>=20
color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblack=20
face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> > color:black'>4)> style=3D3D'font-size:=20
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D=20
> > > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;=20
> > color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to=20
hull =3D=20
> > design=20
> > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>I live=20
> > in the Chicago area> style=3D3D'color:black;=20
> > mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks=20
> > for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =3D=20
> > for"> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>Bob> >> color=3D3Dblack>>=20
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > color=3D3Dblack=20
> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs=3D=20
> > p; =20
> > > style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D=20
> > /p>=20
> >=20
> >=20
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
>=20
> > face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D=20
> >=20
size=3D3D2>______________________________________________________________=
_
_=3D=20
> > _____________
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> This Weber-Stephen Products =3D=20
> > Company e-mail is intended only for
> the use of the individual or =3D=20
> > entity to which it is addressed and may
> contain information that is =3D=20
> > privileged, confidential and exempt from
> disclosure under applicable =3D=20
> > law. If the reader of this e-mail message
> is not the intended =3D=20
> > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> for delivery of the =3D=20
> > message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any =3D=20
> > dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is =3D=20
> > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> please notify =3D=20
> > us immediately by e-mail at >=20
href=3D3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> =
size=3D3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
> > color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. =
Thank=20
=3D=20
> > you.
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6--=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > --__--__--=20
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________=20
> > frers-list mailing list=20
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
> > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > End of frers-list Digest=20
>=20
--
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
Cook Heyward Lonnes Lee & Hopper, P.C.
P.O. Box 29629
Richmond VA, 23242
804.747.4500
Fax: 804.762.9608
_______________________________________________
frers-list mailing list
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Mon Feb 6 12:16:21 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 07:16:21 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs
Message-ID: <739F9600DCB1FF47AFEA52036723D46102F24E5D@naeanrfkez09.nadsusea.nads.navy.mil>
Art,
I have some photos as well and will forward those. In addition I'll =
write up some observations of what is in that area of the hull for the =
group. From my initial review of what I saw yesterday it appears that =
the outer area is glass covered with gel coat but right at the top of =
the stump it looks like they used a filler like bondo or something very =
similar, possibly with glass strands in it. I'll do a little more =
investigating of the area and report back.
Frank Albert
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Kelley
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 22:41
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs
Allan,
If you send me the pics along with any descriptions you can muster, I'll =
put=20
something together and link it to the FAQ page. I think this would be =
an=20
outstanding contribution to the class.
Thanks,
Art
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Allan M Heyward"
To: ;
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs
>
> Frank
>
> If your keel is mounted flush to the hull, it sounds like there was a
> fundamental change in construction somewhere along the way, resulting,
> I'd guess, in far shallower bilge than I have. I'd be happy to =
forward
> the pictures from my 2 adventures with the keel root (keel removal
> in '02 and the leak repair in '05) detailing the construction of #14,
> to the website or archival purposes and the common weal. Let me know.
>
> Allan
>>
>>
>> Allen,
>> My yard had to drop the keel last year because of a grounding that
> looked like it kicked the keel off to port by about 5 degrees.
> Additionally I had a crack in the hull just forward of where the
> leading edge of the keel joins the hull. They put the hull up on jack
> stands and they said it normally takes about 5 hours of wailing on =
the
> top of the keel bolts with a sledge hammer to loosen it. In my case
> they took three wacks and it dropped right off. So much for 5200.
>> Frank Wittosch
>> Pepperke 2.0
>>
>> -------------- Original message --------------=20
>> From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
>>
>> > Send frers-list mailing list submissions to
>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> >
>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> > frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
>> >
>> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
>> >
>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> > than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."
>> >
>> >
>> > Today's Topics:
>> >
>> > 1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV
> SEA 01)
>> > 2. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV
> SEA 01)
>> >
>> > --__--__--=20
>> >
>> > Message: 1
>> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:08:37 -0500
>> > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"
>> > To:
>> > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> >
>> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>> >
>> > ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94
>> > Content-Type: text/plain;
>> > charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> >
>> > Bob,
>> > =3D20
>> > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer
> water =3D
>> > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat
> there =3D
>> > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
=3D
>> > suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
=3D
>> > discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the
> keel =3D
>> > like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping
> out. =3D
>> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the
> keel and =3D
>> > hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year
> is =3D
>> > to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it
> with =3D
>> > 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then
> =3D
>> > next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel
> by =3D
>> > about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them
> a =3D
>> > couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull
> =3D
>> > just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the
> keel. =3D
>> > Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in
> the =3D
>> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
> up =3D
>> > being the 5200.
>> > =3D20
>> > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
>> > =3D20
>> > Thanks,
>> > Frank Albert
>> > =3D20
>> > =3D20
>> > =3D20
>> > -----Original Message-----=20
>> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan
> Heyward
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
>> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > =3D20
>> > Bob
>> > =3D20
>> > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay.
> I've =3D
>> > read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of
> =3D
>> > things to add, based on my experience:
>> > =3D20
>> > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the
> =3D
>> > stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which
> the =3D
>> > keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't
> know =3D
>> > for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some
> may =3D
>> > not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
=3D
>> > potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at
> the =3D
>> > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only
> contribute =3D
>> > to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the
> bilge: =3D
>> > the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and
> hull, =3D
>> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
> in =3D
>> > the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and
> =3D
>> > that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at
> the =3D
>> > hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other
> =3D
>> > thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on
> at =3D
>> > least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the
> =3D
>> > bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the
> keel =3D
>> > bolts.
>> > =3D20
>> > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail
> and =3D
>> > race.
>> > =3D20
>> > Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
>> > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
>> > 804-747-4500
>> > =3D20
>> > -----Original Message-----=20
>> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen,
> Robert
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
>> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > =3D20
>> > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
>> > =3D20
>> > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
=3D
>> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these
> boats?
>> > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =3D
>> > this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
>> > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
>> > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =3D
>> > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
>> > =3D20
>> > =3D20
>> > I live in the Chicago area
>> > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to
> look =3D
>> > for"
>> > =3D20
>> > Bob
>> > =3D20
>> >
>> >
> =
________________________________________________________________________
> _=3D
>> > ____
>> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
>> > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
>> > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and
> may
>> > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt
> from
>> > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail
> message
>> > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
>> > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are
> hereby
>> > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>> > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in
> error,
>> > please notify us immediately by e-mail at =3D
>> > legal@weberstephen.com
>> > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
>> >
>> > ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94
>> > Content-Type: text/html;
>> > charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> >
>> > > xmlns:w=3D3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =3D
>> > xmlns=3D3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
>> >
>> >
>> > > charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > style=3D3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=3D
>> > b,
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=3D
>> > boat
>> > may have that new crack problem. =3D
>> > I
>> > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.>
> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =3D
>> > boat
>> > there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you
> would =3D
>> > suppose
>> > the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these
> discussions =3D
>> > someone
>> > mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to
> 12 =3D
>> > inches)
>> > and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes">
>> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =3D
>> > keel and
>> > hull joint are right at that crack.> yes">
>> > Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =3D
>> > then grind
>> > out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol.>
> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =3D
>> > doesn't work
>> > then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the
> keel =3D
>> > by
>> > about 3 inches. Their =3D
>> > experience
>> > with this process has taught them a couple of things.> =
style=3D3D"mso-
> spacerun:
>> > yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =3D
>> > just this
>> > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.>
> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =3D
>> > want to
>> > let go. They've had boats =3D
>> > in the
>> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
> up =3D
>> > being the
>> > 5200.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=3D
>> > anyone
>> > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =3D
>> > it.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=3D
>> > anks,
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=3D
>> > ank
>> > Albert
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> pan
>> > style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> > yes">
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
>>
>> > From:
>> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
>>
>> > Sent: Thursday, February =3D
>> > 02, 2006
>> > 12:03
>>
>> > To: =3D
>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>
>> > Subject: RE: =3D
>> > [frers-list]questions
>> > on a purchase of a frers 33
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that
> sails =3D
>> > and
>> > races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've read Frank's =3D
>> > response on your question
>> > 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =3D
>> > experience:> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the
> transverse =3D
>> > stringer
>> > leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading edge
> of the =3D
>> > keel
>> > sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition into
> the =3D
>> > hull.
>> > I don't know for certain if this will be true on all boats, =3D
>> > as I
>> > understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it
> exists,
>> > it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =3D
>> > edge
>> > of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that
> will =3D
>> > not only
>> > contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a
> path to =3D
>> > the
>> > bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between
> keel and =3D
>> > hull,
>> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
> in =3D
>> > the
>> > hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
=3D
>> > that you
>> > should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull.
> =3D
>> > The
>> > fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to
> =3D
>> > check
>> > is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one
> boat =3D
>> > (mine)
>> > there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that
> caused
>> > substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> =
color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is
> strong =3D
>> > as an
>> > ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =3D
>> > Jr.> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =
=3D
>> > FEEHAN,
>> > P.C.> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
>> > windowtext'>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500> =
color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DTahoma>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
>> > Message-----
>>
>> > From:
>> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
>>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February =3D
>> > 01, 2006
>> > 7:02 AM
>>
>> > To: =3D
>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>
>> > Subject: =3D
>> > [frers-list]questions on
>> > a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D3D'color:
>> > black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3D"Times New Roman">> =
style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
>> color=3D3Dblack>> =
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>I am
>> > currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblack
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>1)> style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D
>> > > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring
> issues =3D
>> > in
>> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
=3D
>> > boats?> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblack
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>2)> style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D
>> > > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a
> tiller is =3D
>> > this
>> > reasonable or does the installation look like a =3D
>> > morphidite?> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblack
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>3)> style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D
>> > > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?>
> color=3D3Dblack>> =
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblack
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>4)> style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D
>> > > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to
> hull =3D
>> > design
>> > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>I live
>> > in the Chicago area> style=3D3D'color:black;
>> > mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks
>> > for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =3D
>> > for"> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>Bob> >> color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs=3D
>> > p;
>> > > style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> > face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D
>> >
> =
size=3D3D2>______________________________________________________________=
_
> _=3D
>> > _____________
>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
>> This Weber-Stephen Products =3D
>> > Company e-mail is intended only for
>> the use of the individual or =3D
>> > entity to which it is addressed and may
>> contain information that is =3D
>> > privileged, confidential and exempt from
>> disclosure under applicable =3D
>> > law. If the reader of this e-mail message
>> is not the intended =3D
>> > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
>> for delivery of the =3D
>> > message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
>> notified that any =3D
>> > dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>> communication is =3D
>> > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
>> please notify =3D
>> > us immediately by e-mail at >
> href=3D3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> =
size=3D3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
>> > color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. =
Thank
> =3D
>> > you.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94--=20
>> >
>> > --__--__--=20
>> >
>> > Message: 2
>> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:14:30 -0500
>> > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"
>> > To:
>> > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> >
>> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>> >
>> > ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6
>> > Content-Type: text/plain;
>> > charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> >
>> > Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if
> =3D
>> > anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14
> what =3D
>> > year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have
> been =3D
>> > built in the same year as mine.
>> > =3D20
>> > Thanks,
>> > Frank Albert
>> > =3D20
>> > -----Original Message-----=20
>> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert,
> Francis =3D
>> > X CIV SEA 01
>> > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
>> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > =3D20
>> > Bob,
>> > =3D20
>> > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer
> water =3D
>> > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat
> there =3D
>> > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
=3D
>> > suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
=3D
>> > discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the
> keel =3D
>> > like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping
> out. =3D
>> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the
> keel and =3D
>> > hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year
> is =3D
>> > to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it
> with =3D
>> > 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then
> =3D
>> > next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel
> by =3D
>> > about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them
> a =3D
>> > couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull
> =3D
>> > just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the
> keel. =3D
>> > Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in
> the =3D
>> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
> up =3D
>> > being the 5200.
>> > =3D20
>> > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
>> > =3D20
>> > Thanks,
>> > Frank Albert
>> > =3D20
>> > =3D20
>> > =3D20
>> > -----Original Message-----=20
>> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan
> Heyward
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
>> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > =3D20
>> > Bob
>> > =3D20
>> > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay.
> I've =3D
>> > read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of
> =3D
>> > things to add, based on my experience:
>> > =3D20
>> > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the
> =3D
>> > stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which
> the =3D
>> > keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't
> know =3D
>> > for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some
> may =3D
>> > not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
=3D
>> > potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at
> the =3D
>> > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only
> contribute =3D
>> > to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the
> bilge: =3D
>> > the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and
> hull, =3D
>> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
> in =3D
>> > the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and
> =3D
>> > that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at
> the =3D
>> > hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other
> =3D
>> > thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on
> at =3D
>> > least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the
> =3D
>> > bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the
> keel =3D
>> > bolts.
>> > =3D20
>> > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail
> and =3D
>> > race.
>> > =3D20
>> > Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
>> > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
>> > 804-747-4500
>> > =3D20
>> > -----Original Message-----=20
>> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen,
> Robert
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
>> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > =3D20
>> > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
>> > =3D20
>> > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
=3D
>> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these
> boats?
>> > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =3D
>> > this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
>> > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
>> > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =3D
>> > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
>> > =3D20
>> > =3D20
>> > I live in the Chicago area
>> > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to
> look =3D
>> > for"
>> > =3D20
>> > Bob
>> > =3D20
>> >
>> >
> =
________________________________________________________________________
> _=3D
>> > ____
>> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
>> > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
>> > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and
> may
>> > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt
> from
>> > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail
> message
>> > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
>> > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are
> hereby
>> > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>> > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in
> error,
>> > please notify us immediately by e-mail at =3D
>> > legal@weberstephen.com
>> > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
>> >
>> > ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6
>> > Content-Type: text/html;
>> > charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> >
>> > > xmlns:w=3D3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =3D
>> > xmlns=3D3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
>> >
>> >
>> > > charset=3D3Diso-8859-1">
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > style=3D3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3D"#993366"
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
>> > Arial'>Alright big question is where all these boats made the same
> and =3D
>> > if
>> > anyone knows of a different version.> yes">
>> > Allen your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built?>
> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Wild thing was number 37 and =3D
>> > may have
>> > been built in the same year as mine.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3D"#993366"
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
>> > Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3D"#993366"
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
>> > Arial'>Thanks,
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3D"#993366"
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
>> > Arial'>Frank Albert
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3D"#993366"
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
>> > Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
>>
>> > From:
>> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV =3D
>> > SEA 01
>>
>> > Sent: Friday, February =3D
>> > 03, 2006
>> > 7:09
>>
>> > To: =3D
>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>
>> > Subject: RE: =3D
>> > [frers-list]questions
>> > on a purchase of a frers 33
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=3D
>> > b,
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=3D
>> > boat
>> > may have that new crack problem. =3D
>> > I
>> > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.>
> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =3D
>> > boat
>> > there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you
> would =3D
>> > suppose
>> > the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these
> discussions =3D
>> > someone
>> > mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to
> 12 =3D
>> > inches)
>> > and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes">
>> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =3D
>> > keel and
>> > hull joint are right at that crack.> yes">
>> > Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =3D
>> > then
>> > grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using =3D
>> > alcohol.> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =3D
>> > doesn't work
>> > then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the
> keel =3D
>> > by
>> > about 3 inches. Their =3D
>> > experience
>> > with this process has taught them a couple of things.> =
style=3D3D"mso-
> spacerun:
>> > yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =3D
>> > just this
>> > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.>
> style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =3D
>> > want to
>> > let go. They've had boats =3D
>> > in the
>> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
> up =3D
>> > being the
>> > 5200.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=3D
>> > anyone
>> > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =3D
>> > it.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=3D
>> > anks,
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=3D
>> > ank
>> > Albert
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> pan
>> > style=3D3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =3D
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dnavy face=3D3DArial>> =
style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =3D
>> > !supportEmptyParas]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
>>
>> > From: =3D
>> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On
>> > Behalf Of Allan Heyward
>>
>> > Sent: Thursday, February =3D
>> > 02, 2006
>> > 12:03
>>
>> > To: =3D
>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>
>> > Subject: RE: =3D
>> > [frers-list]questions
>> > on a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > Roman">> style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>> !
> supportEmptyParas]> > color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that
> sails =3D
>> > and
>> > races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've read Frank's =3D
>> > response on your question
>> > 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =3D
>> > experience:> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the
> transverse
>> > stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the
> leading =3D
>> > edge of
>> > the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of
> transition =3D
>> > into the
>> > hull. I don't know for certain if this will be true on all =3D
>> > boats, as I
>> > understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it
> exists,
>> > it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =3D
>> > edge
>> > of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that
> will =3D
>> > not only
>> > contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a
> path to =3D
>> > the
>> > bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between
> keel and =3D
>> > hull,
>> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
> in =3D
>> > the
>> > hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
=3D
>> > that you
>> > should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull.
> =3D
>> > The
>> > fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to
> =3D
>> > check
>> > is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one
> boat =3D
>> > (mine)
>> > there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that
> caused
>> > substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> =
color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is
> strong =3D
>> > as an
>> > ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =3D
>> > Jr.> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =
=3D
>> > FEEHAN,
>> > P.C.> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
>> > windowtext'>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500> =
color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DTahoma>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
>> > Message-----
>>
>> > From:
>> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =3D
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
>>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February =3D
>> > 01, 2006
>> > 7:02 AM
>>
>> > To: =3D
>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>
>> > Subject: =3D
>> > [frers-list]questions on
>> > a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D3D'color:
>> > black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3D"Times New Roman">> =
style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
>> color=3D3Dblack>> =
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>I am
>> > currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblack
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>1)> style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D
>> > > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring
> issues =3D
>> > in
>> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
=3D
>> > boats?> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblack
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>2)> style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D
>> > > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a
> tiller is =3D
>> > this reasonable
>> > or does the installation look like a morphidite?> color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblack
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>3)> style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D
>> > > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?>
> color=3D3Dblack>> =
style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3D3Dblack
> face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>4)> style=3D3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =3D
>> > > size=3D3D2 color=3D3Dblack face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to
> hull =3D
>> > design
>> > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>I live
>> > in the Chicago area> style=3D3D'color:black;
>> > mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks
>> > for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =3D
>> > for"> color=3D3Dblack>> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>Bob> >> color=3D3Dblack>>
> style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D3Dblack
>> > face=3D3DArial>> style=3D3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs=3D
>> > p;
>> > > style=3D3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=3D
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> > face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D
>> >
> =
size=3D3D2>______________________________________________________________=
_
> _=3D
>> > _____________
>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
>> This Weber-Stephen Products =3D
>> > Company e-mail is intended only for
>> the use of the individual or =3D
>> > entity to which it is addressed and may
>> contain information that is =3D
>> > privileged, confidential and exempt from
>> disclosure under applicable =3D
>> > law. If the reader of this e-mail message
>> is not the intended =3D
>> > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
>> for delivery of the =3D
>> > message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
>> notified that any =3D
>> > dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>> communication is =3D
>> > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
>> please notify =3D
>> > us immediately by e-mail at >
> href=3D3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> =
size=3D3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
>> > color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. =
Thank
> =3D
>> > you.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > ------_=3D_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6--=20
>> >
>> >
>> > --__--__--=20
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > frers-list mailing list
>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>> >
>> >
>> > End of frers-list Digest
>>
>
> --
> Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
> Cook Heyward Lonnes Lee & Hopper, P.C.
> P.O. Box 29629
> Richmond VA, 23242
> 804.747.4500
> Fax: 804.762.9608
> _______________________________________________
> frers-list mailing list
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>=20
_______________________________________________
frers-list mailing list
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Sun Feb 12 04:02:31 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Arthur Kelley)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 23:02:31 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]Re: Newport Nationals 2006
Message-ID: <09de01c62f89$26793320$674da8c0@art8100>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--Boundary_(ID_U7O9c3S8V1oIjYCSGG0lNQ)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Yes Kurt, Brilliant will be in Newport for the Nationals again this year!
Our major event calendar also includes Larchmont NOODs. I dearly hope we can fill the class at NOODs this year. It was a great event last year. If we declare it to be the "Frers 33 Long Island Sound Championships" I think Sailing World throws in some trophies to make it extra special. Are we up to it folks?
We also hope to make the YRA-LIS Championships August 26 & 27. Do we have a core of folks interested in making that a one-design event? Last year the event was held at:
Cedar Point & American Yacht Clubs (one-designs)
Stamford & Riverside Yacht Clubs (handicap fleets)
See y'all soon!
Art
--Boundary_(ID_U7O9c3S8V1oIjYCSGG0lNQ)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Yes Kurt, Brilliant will be in Newport for the
Nationals again this year!
Our major event calendar also includes Larchmont
NOODs. I dearly hope we can fill the class
at NOODs this year. It was a great event last year. If we declare it
to be the "Frers 33 Long Island Sound Championships" I think Sailing World
throws in some trophies to make it extra special. Are we up to it
folks?
We also hope to make the YRA-LIS Championships
August 26 & 27. Do we have a core of folks interested in making that a
one-design event? Last year the event was held at:
Cedar Point & American Yacht Clubs
(one-designs) Stamford & Riverside Yacht Clubs (handicap
fleets)
See y'all soon!
Art
--Boundary_(ID_U7O9c3S8V1oIjYCSGG0lNQ)--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Mon Feb 13 14:55:28 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Brown, Junius {PCNA})
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 09:55:28 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]Re: Newport Nationals 2006
Message-ID: <73D2EFF7AE08014DB9EA31D9399B7068CB99F4@pepwmu00191.corp.pep.pvt>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C630AD.8779F7F4
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charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Persistence will be at the NOOD, and (I know you've heard this before)
planning on Newport.
=20
Also, the weekend of June 4th, CPYC is hosting a 2 day one design YRALIS
event in Westport and I'd like to try and get a class together for that.
There are at least 3 F33s in Westport. My club, SHYC, will be helping
with slip space for the event and I'd like to reserve slips for the F33
fleet and have a Class reception. If we get the usual suspects from
Western LIS, we will have a class.
=20
Any interest in a beginning of the year Championship?
=20
Junius
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Kelley
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:03 PM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]Re: Newport Nationals 2006
Yes Kurt, Brilliant will be in Newport for the Nationals again
this year! =20
=20
Our major event calendar also includes Larchmont NOODs. I
dearly hope we can fill the class at NOODs this year. It was a great
event last year. If we declare it to be the "Frers 33 Long Island Sound
Championships" I think Sailing World throws in some trophies to make it
extra special. Are we up to it folks?
=20
We also hope to make the YRA-LIS Championships August 26 & 27.
Do we have a core of folks interested in making that a one-design event?
Last year the event was held at:
=20
Cedar Point & American Yacht Clubs (one-designs)
Stamford & Riverside Yacht Clubs (handicap fleets)
=20
See y'all soon!
=20
Art
------_=_NextPart_001_01C630AD.8779F7F4
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Message
Persistence will be at the NOOD, and (I know you've heard this =
before)=20
planning on Newport.
Also,=20
the weekend of June 4th, CPYC is hosting a 2 day one design YRALIS event =
in=20
Westport and I'd like to try and get a class together for that. =
There are=20
at least 3 F33s in Westport. My club, SHYC, will be helping with =
slip=20
space for the event and I'd like to reserve slips for the F33 fleet and =
have a=20
Class reception. If we get the usual suspects from Western LIS, we =
will=20
have a class.
Any interest in a beginning of the year=20
Championship?
Junius
-----Original =
Message----- From:=20
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]=20
On Behalf Of Arthur Kelley Sent: Saturday, February 11, =
2006=20
11:03 PM To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject:=20
[frers-list]Re: Newport Nationals 2006
Yes Kurt, Brilliant will be in =
Newport for the=20
Nationals again this year!
Our major event calendar also =
includes Larchmont=20
NOODs. I dearly hope we can =
fill the=20
class at NOODs this year. It was a great event last year. =
If we=20
declare it to be the "Frers 33 Long Island Sound Championships" I =
think=20
Sailing World throws in some trophies to make it extra special. =
Are we=20
up to it folks?
We also hope to make the YRA-LIS =
Championships August 26 & 27. Do we have a core of folks =
interested=20
in making that a one-design event? Last year the event was held=20
at:
Cedar Point & American Yacht =
Clubs=20
(one-designs) Stamford & Riverside Yacht Clubs (handicap=20
fleets)
See y'all soon!
Art
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From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Mon Feb 13 20:27:41 2006
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Arthur Kelley)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 15:27:41 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]Re: Newport Nationals 2006
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Message-ID: <0ab801c630db$f1688dd0$674da8c0@art8100>
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MessageJunius,
I'll have to check with the crew, but it will probably go over well. We have a one-day event scheduled for Saturday but it's not a big deal. I think they'd rather get out for one design, and CPYC tends to run good events.
Pencil us in.
Art
----- Original Message -----
From: Brown, Junius {PCNA}
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 9:55 AM
Subject: RE: [frers-list]Re: Newport Nationals 2006
Persistence will be at the NOOD, and (I know you've heard this before) planning on Newport.
Also, the weekend of June 4th, CPYC is hosting a 2 day one design YRALIS event in Westport and I'd like to try and get a class together for that. There are at least 3 F33s in Westport. My club, SHYC, will be helping with slip space for the event and I'd like to reserve slips for the F33 fleet and have a Class reception. If we get the usual suspects from Western LIS, we will have a class.
Any interest in a beginning of the year Championship?
Junius
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Kelley
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:03 PM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]Re: Newport Nationals 2006
Yes Kurt, Brilliant will be in Newport for the Nationals again this year!
Our major event calendar also includes Larchmont NOODs. I dearly hope we can fill the class at NOODs this year. It was a great event last year. If we declare it to be the "Frers 33 Long Island Sound Championships" I think Sailing World throws in some trophies to make it extra special. Are we up to it folks?
We also hope to make the YRA-LIS Championships August 26 & 27. Do we have a core of folks interested in making that a one-design event? Last year the event was held at:
Cedar Point & American Yacht Clubs (one-designs)
Stamford & Riverside Yacht Clubs (handicap fleets)
See y'all soon!
Art
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Message
Junius,
I'll have to check with the crew, but it will
probably go over well. We have a one-day event scheduled for Saturday but
it's not a big deal. I think they'd rather get out for one design, and
CPYC tends to run good events.
Persistence will be at the NOOD, and (I know you've heard this before)
planning on Newport.
Also, the weekend of June 4th, CPYC is hosting a 2 day one design
YRALIS event in Westport and I'd like to try and get a class together for
that. There are at least 3 F33s in Westport. My club, SHYC, will
be helping with slip space for the event and I'd like to reserve slips for the
F33 fleet and have a Class reception. If we get the usual suspects from
Western LIS, we will have a class.
Any interest in a beginning of the year
Championship?
Junius
-----Original
Message----- From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Arthur
Kelley Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:03 PM To:
frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: [frers-list]Re: Newport
Nationals 2006
Yes Kurt, Brilliant will be in Newport for the
Nationals again this year!
Our major event calendar also includes
Larchmont NOODs. I dearly hope we can
fill the class at NOODs this year. It was a great event last
year. If we declare it to be the "Frers 33 Long Island Sound
Championships" I think Sailing World throws in some trophies to make it
extra special. Are we up to it folks?
We also hope to make the YRA-LIS
Championships August 26 & 27. Do we have a core of folks
interested in making that a one-design event? Last year the event was
held at:
Cedar Point & American Yacht Clubs
(one-designs) Stamford & Riverside Yacht Clubs (handicap
fleets)