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[frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop
Two questions for the esteemed Frers fleet
1) I'm getting a new main made and I'm wondering what the most appropriate
cut us. I've got one qoute for a 290 sqft sail that has minimal roach etc
and another for a 320 Sq ft sail. I saw no main sail area requirement in
the Is there a class requirement in the class association rules and
regulations. What size sail do most boats carry? the measurements I am
using are
I: 45.00
J: 13.48
P: 39.10
E: 13.10
2) Rudder slop - I've got a fair amoint and I've checked out the extensive
reading provided by a couple people on changing rudder bearings on the
site but before I take on what seems like a pretty daunting task I was
wondering (hoping is perhaps a better expression) if there was a
relatively lightweight way to check the beadring/drop the rudder?
Thanks in advance for any quidance/advice
Regards
Carl
Pressure Drop
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Carl,
Dropping the rudder is a challenge and
requires a significant amount of 'persuasion' aka force! We have
dropped WildThing's rudder twice, once in 2003 to replace the rudder bearings
and once in 2007 to install pedestal steering. Its not that hard,
but takes time & energy.
To remove the rudder:
- Make sure you have a good sledge hammer
and sacrificial wood of the diameter of the rudder stock (so you
don't hit the shaft directly)
- Definitely apply marvel oil / liquid
wrench or similar to the shaft / upper bearing with for a week before
(apply often).
- Eat a large breakfast
- Make sure the boat has extra jack stands
in the back
- Make sure you have blocking under the
rudder
- Start pounding
Dan Boyd
Biogen Idec Inc
Tel: 1.617.679.2274
Fax: 1.617.679.3599
Carl Gish <carlgish@yahoo.com>
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Two questions for the esteemed Frers fleet
1) I'm getting a new main made and I'm wondering
what the most appropriate cut us. I've got one qoute for a 290 sqft sail
that has minimal roach etc and another for a 320 Sq ft sail. I saw no main
sail area requirement in the Is there a class requirement in the class
association rules and regulations. What size sail do most boats carry?
the measurements I am using are
I: 45.00
J: 13.48
P: 39.10
E: 13.10
2) Rudder slop - I've got a fair amoint and I've checked
out the extensive reading provided by a couple people on changing rudder
bearings on the site but before I take on what seems like a pretty daunting
task I was wondering (hoping is perhaps a better expression) if there was
a relatively lightweight way to check the beadring/drop the rudder?
Thanks in advance for any quidance/advice
Regards
Carl
Pressure Drop
--=_alternative 005E0A078525756A_=--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Fri Feb 27 17:13:14 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Arthur Kelley)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:13:14 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop
Message-ID: <20090227171315.TATQ25636.atlmtaow01.cingularme.com@Inbox>
--_B7722589-F009-68EA-3424-5A14529F50F6_
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I can't tell from the diagram posted on the web site what information is sp=
ecified on the sail plan. Class rules unfortunately refer to "original spec=
" for everything rather than explicitly stating.
I am rated with the following I=3D45, J=3D13.33, P=3D39.12, E=3D15.12
Double check the E or foot length for a typo.
The class does not specify a sail area so you are free to experiment with r=
oach. But you are limited by the requirement for a fixed backstay as origin=
ally designed. Like Dick, my 3DL Main is a pain to tack in light winds so d=
on't go too far with roach. I'll try to look up more specs tonight.
Dropping the rudder isn't too much trouble as long as the bolts at the head=
and radial aren't frozen. I had to drill things out, but you may be more f=
ortunate. Now I can drop it inside of about 15 mins!
Good luck,
Art
=0A=
=0A=
-----Original Message-----=0A=
From: Richard Saunders
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 11:07 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop
Hi Carl,=20
=A0
My racing main is 321 sq.ft. with 1 full length top batten.=A0 My dacron cr=
uising main is 305 sq.ft. with 2=A0full length top battens.=A0 The roach on=
both hit the backstay and often annoyingly hang up in light=A0wind conditi=
ons. =A0 I have had no experience with the replacing rudder bearings, yet.=
=A0=20
=A0
Dick Saunders
Out of Reach,=A0 Hull #18
From: Carl Gish
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 10:25:31 AM
Subject: [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop
Two questions for the esteemed Frers fleet
=A0
1) I'm getting a new main made and I'm wondering what the most appropriate =
cut us. I've got one qoute for a 290 sqft sail that has minimal roach etc a=
nd another for a 320 Sq ft sail. I saw no main sail area requirement in the=
Is there a class requirement in the class association rules and regulation=
s. What size sail do most boats carry? the measurements I am using are=A0 =
=20
I: 45.00
J: 13.48
P: 39.10
E: 13.10
=A0
2) Rudder slop - I've got a fair amoint and I've checked out the extensive =
reading provided by a couple people on changing rudder bearings on the site=
but before I take on what seems like a pretty daunting task I was wonderin=
g (hoping is perhaps a better expression) if there was a relatively lightwe=
ight way to check the beadring/drop the rudder?=20
=A0
Thanks in advance for any quidance/advice
=A0
Regards
=A0
Carl
Pressure Drop=20
=A0
=A0=
--_B7722589-F009-68EA-3424-5A14529F50F6_
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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=
I can't tell from the diagram posted on the web site what information is sp=
ecified on the sail plan. Class rules unfortunately refer to "original spec=
" for everything rather than explicitly stating.
I am rated with the=
following I=3D45, J=3D13.33, P=3D39.12, E=3D15.12
Double check the =
E or foot length for a typo.
The class does not specify a sail area =
so you are free to experiment with roach. But you are limited by the requir=
ement for a fixed backstay as originally designed. Like Dick, my 3DL Main i=
s a pain to tack in light winds so don't go too far with roach. I'll try to=
look up more specs tonight.
Dropping the rudder isn't too much trou=
ble as long as the bolts at the head and radial aren't frozen. I had to dri=
ll things out, but you may be more fortunate. Now I can drop it inside of a=
bout 15 mins!
Good luck,
Art
From: Richard Saun=
ders <rhsaund@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 11:07 =
AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Ma=
in sail area and rudder slop
Hi Ca=
rl,
My racing ma=
in is 321 sq.ft. with 1 full length top batten. My dacron cruising ma=
in is 305 sq.ft. with 2 full length top battens. The roach on bo=
th hit the backstay and often annoyingly hang up in light wind conditi=
ons. I have had no experience with the replacing rudder bearings, ye=
t.
=
Dick Saunders
Out of Reach, Hull #18
=
From: Carl Gish <carlgish@yahoo.com>
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 10:2=
5:31 AM
Subject: [frers-=
list]Main sail area and rudder slop
Two q=
uestions for the esteemed Frers fleet
1) I'm get=
ting a new main made and I'm wondering what the most appropriate cut us. I'=
ve got one qoute for a 290 sqft sail that has minimal roach etc and another=
for a 320 Sq ft sail. I saw no main sail area requirement in the Is there =
a class requirement in the class association rules and regulations. What si=
ze sail do most boats carry? the measurements I am using are
I: 45.00=
J: 13.48
=
P: 39.10
<=
font size=3D"2">E: 13.10
2) Rudder slop - I've got a fair amoint and I've checked out the =
extensive reading provided by a couple people on changing rudder bearings o=
n the site but before I take on what seems like a pretty daunting task I wa=
s wondering (hoping is perhaps a better expression) if there was a relative=
ly lightweight way to check the beadring/drop the rudder?
Thanks in advance for an=
y quidance/advice
Regards
Carl
Pressure Drop
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Arthur Kelley =
<akelley@optonline.net> wrote:
I can't tell from the diagram posted on the web site what informatio=
n is specified on the sail plan. Class rules unfortunately refer to "o=
riginal spec" for everything rather than explicitly stating.
I am rated with the following I=3D45, J=3D13.33, P=3D39.12, E=3D15.12
Double check the E or foot length for a typo.
The class does n=
ot specify a sail area so you are free to experiment with roach. But you ar=
e limited by the requirement for a fixed backstay as originally designed. L=
ike Dick, my 3DL Main is a pain to tack in light winds so don't go too =
far with roach. I'll try to look up more specs tonight.
Dropping the rudder isn't too much trouble as long as the bolts at =
the head and radial aren't frozen. I had to drill things out, but you m=
ay be more fortunate. Now I can drop it inside of about 15 mins!
Good luck,
Art
Fro=
m: Richard Saunders <rhsaund@yahoo.com>
Sen=
t: Friday, February 27, 2009 11:07 AM=20
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop
Hi Carl,
=A0
My racing main is 321 sq.ft. with 1 full lengt=
h top batten.=A0 My dacron cruising main is 305 sq.ft. with 2=A0full length=
top battens.=A0 The roach on both hit the backstay and often annoyingly ha=
ng up in light=A0wind conditions. =A0 I have had no experience with the rep=
lacing rudder bearings, yet.=A0
=A0
Dick Saunders
Out of Reach,=A0 Hull #18
From: Carl Gish <carlgish@yahoo.com>=
=20
Sent: Friday, February=
27, 2009 10:25:31 AM
Subject: [frers-list]M=
ain sail area and rudder slop
Two questions for the esteemed Frers fleet
=A0
1) I'm getting a new main made and I'm wondering what the most=
appropriate cut us. I've got one qoute for a 290 sqft sail that has mi=
nimal roach etc and another for a 320 Sq ft sail. I saw no main sail area r=
equirement in the Is there a class requirement in the class association rul=
es and regulations. What size sail do most boats carry? the measurements I =
am using are=A0
I: 45.00
J: 13.48
P: 39.10
E: 13.10
=A0
2) Rudder slop - I've got a fair amoint and I'v=
e checked out the extensive reading provided by a couple people on changing=
rudder bearings on the site but before I take on what seems like a pretty =
daunting task I was wondering (hoping is perhaps a better expression) if th=
ere was a relatively lightweight way to check the beadring/drop the rudder?=
=A0
Thanks in advance for any quidance/advice
=A0
Regards
=A0
Carl
Pressure Drop
=A0
=A0
--0016e642d49a7ce9bb0463f0b7ff--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Sat Feb 28 05:14:50 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (frers-list@lists.frers33.com)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 05:14:50 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop
In-Reply-To: <714572.38802.qm@web38202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <714572.38802.qm@web38202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID:
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Carl wins on this. From the original brochure, the following specs:
Sail Area (100% Foretriangle) 560 SF
I = 45.00'
J = 13.33'
P = 39.12'
E = 13.12'
The "E" I noted in an earlier email was listed on the web as the PHRF LIS measurements/ratings. My own PHRF cert shows an "E" of 13.40'. I guess I'll be measuring this spring.
Let's do the math: if the foretriangle is 1/2*J*P = 260.73 SF, subtract from 560 SF leaving 299.26 SF for the main - in theory. Therefore, 290 SF seems a mite small, but I would also not interpret 299 as the maximum. The hard numbers are I, J, P, & E, and that the fixed backstay made of SS Rod Rigging must remain. If anyone feels that the definition is too loose we can address it as a class, but I haven't heard anyone complain yet that someone has "over-roached".
Art
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Gish
Date: Friday, February 27, 2009 10:26 am
Subject: [frers-list]Main sail area and rudder slop
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Two questions for the esteemed Frers fleet
>
> 1) I'm getting a new main made and I'm wondering what the most
> appropriate cut us. I've got one qoute for a 290 sqft sail that
> has minimal roach etc and another for a 320 Sq ft sail. I saw no
> main sail area requirement in the Is there a class requirement
> in the class association rules and regulations. What size sail
> do most boats carry? the measurements I am using are I: 45.00
> J: 13.48
> P: 39.10
> E: 13.10
>
> 2) Rudder slop - I've got a fair amoint and I've checked out the
> extensive reading provided by a couple people on changing rudder
> bearings on the site but before I take on what seems like a
> pretty daunting task I was wondering (hoping is perhaps a better
> expression) if there was a relatively lightweight way to check
> the beadring/drop the rudder?
>
> Thanks in advance for any quidance/advice
>
> Regards
>
> Carl
> Pressure Drop
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=3CDIV=3ECarl wins on this=2E=26nbsp=3B From the original brochure=2C th=
e following specs=3A=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3E=26nbsp=3B=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3ESail Area (100=25 Foretriangle) 560 SF=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3EI =3D 45=2E00=27=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3EJ =3D 13=2E33=27=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3EP =3D 39=2E12=27=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3EE =3D 13=2E12=27=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3E=26nbsp=3B=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3EThe =22E=22 I noted in an earlier email was listed on the web a=
s the PHRF=26nbsp=3BLIS=26nbsp=3Bmeasurements/ratings=2E=26nbsp=3B My ow=
n PHRF=26nbsp=3Bcert=26nbsp=3Bshows an =22E=22 of 13=2E40=27=2E=26nbsp=3B=
I guess I=27ll be measuring this spring=2E=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3E=26nbsp=3B=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3ELet=27s do the math=3A if the foretriangle=26nbsp=3Bis 1/2*J*P =
=3D 260=2E73 SF=2C subtract from 560 SF=26nbsp=3Bleaving 299=2E26 SF=26n=
bsp=3Bfor the main - in theory=2E=26nbsp=3B Therefore=2C 290 SF=26nbsp=3B=
seems a mite small=2C but I would also not interpret 299 as the maximum=2E=
=26nbsp=3B The hard numbers are I=2C J=2C P=2C =26amp=3B E=2C and that t=
he fixed backstay=26nbsp=3Bmade of SS=26nbsp=3BRod Rigging must remain=2E=
=26nbsp=3B If anyone feels that the definition is too loose we can addre=
ss it as a class=2C but I haven=27t heard anyone complain yet that someo=
ne has =22over-roached=22=2E=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3E=26nbsp=3B=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3EArt=3C/DIV=3E
=3CDIV=3E=3CBR=3E=3CBR=3E----- Original Message -----=3CBR=3EFrom=3A Car=
l Gish=26nbsp=3B=3CCARLGISH=40YAHOO=2ECOM=3E=3CBR=3EDate=3A Friday=2C Fe=
bruary 27=2C 2009 10=3A26 am=3CBR=3ESubject=3A =5Bfrers-list=5DMain sail=
area and rudder slop=3CBR=3ETo=3A frers-list=40lists=2Efrers33=2Ecom=3C=
BR=3E=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Two questions for the esteemed Frers=26nbsp=3Bflee=
t =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B 1) I=27m getting a new main made and=
I=27m wondering what the most =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B appropriate cut us=2E I=27=
ve got one qoute=26nbsp=3Bfor a 290 sqft=26nbsp=3Bsail that =3CBR=3E=26g=
t=3B has minimal roach etc and another for a 320 Sq=26nbsp=3Bft=26nbsp=3B=
sail=2E I saw no =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B main sail area requirement in the Is t=
here a class requirement =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B in the class association rules=
and regulations=2E What size sail =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B do most boats carry=3F=
the measurements I am using are=26nbsp=3B I=3A 45=2E00=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =
J=3A 13=2E48=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B P=3A 39=2E10=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B E=3A 13=2E10=3C=
BR=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B 2) Rudder slop - I=27ve got a f=
air amoint and I=27ve checked out the =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B extensive reading=
provided by a couple people on changing rudder =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B bearing=
s on the site but before I take on what seems like a =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B pr=
etty daunting task I was wondering (hoping is perhaps a better =3CBR=3E=26=
gt=3B expression) if there was a relatively lightweight way to check =3C=
BR=3E=26gt=3B the beadring/drop the rudder=3F =3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B=
=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Thanks in advance for any quidance/advice=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B=
=26nbsp=3B=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Regards=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B=3CBR=3E=26=
gt=3B Carl=3CBR=3E=26gt=3B Pressure Drop =3C/DIV=3E
--Boundary_(ID_cQxxiTgJw7ylpRByaQ5WrQ)--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Sat Feb 28 05:16:30 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (frers-list@lists.frers33.com)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 05:16:30 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [frers-list]Wing Keel?
Message-ID:
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Here is an interesting piece if trivia I uncovered while researching the sail area question. I have a single-sheet, double-sided flyer here dated 8/89 that lists a wing keel option (draft of 4'11"). Has anyone heard of any having been built? There is a Frers-41 next to me in the yard with a wing keel, but had not heard of it on the 33.
Art
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Here is an interesting piece if trivia I uncovered while researching the sail area question. I have a single-sheet, double-sided flyer here dated 8/89 that lists a wing keel option (draft of 4'11"). Has anyone heard of any having been built? There is a Frers-41 next to me in the yard with a wing keel, but had not heard of it on the 33.
Art
--Boundary_(ID_O4/aqSm4jfsKg0P5aD1i3Q)--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Sat Feb 28 11:56:41 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Neal Melanson)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 06:56:41 -0500
Subject: [frers-list]Wing Keel?
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <5d64faee0902280356m69b4acb3j9445c66d42918d53@mail.gmail.com>
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There was a wing keeled 33 advertised for sale in West Florida some years
ago...
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 12:16 AM, wrote:
> Here is an interesting piece if trivia I uncovered while researching the
> sail area question. I have a single-sheet, double-sided flyer here dated
> 8/89 that lists a wing keel option (draft of 4'11"). Has anyone heard of
> any having been built? There is a Frers-41 next to me in the yard with a
> wing keel, but had not heard of it on the 33.
>
> Art
>
--0015175770b24d91d20463f9477b
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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There was a wing keeled 33 advertised for sale in West Florida some years a=
go...
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 12:16 AM,
<akelley@optonline.net&=
gt; wrote:
Here is an interesting piece if trivia I uncovered while researching t=
he sail area question.=A0 I have a single-sheet, double-sided flyer here da=
ted 8/89 that lists a wing keel option (draft of 4'11").=A0 Has an=
yone heard of any having been built?=A0 There is a Frers-41 next to me in t=
he yard with a wing keel, but had not heard of it on the 33.
=A0
Art
--0015175770b24d91d20463f9477b--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Sat Feb 28 12:28:08 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (rod stright)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:28:08 -0400
Subject: [frers-list]Frers A Jack
Message-ID:
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It is the one that you have listed on the website, built in 1990 and damaged in a hurricane. In my quest for info on the Frers 33 I was in contact with the owner and he mentioned the boat had a shoal draft winged keel. It may have been the only one built and was only built in 1990.
Rod
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It is the one that you have listed on the
website, built in 1990 and damaged in a hurricane. In my quest for info on
the Frers 33 I was in contact with the owner and he mentioned the boat had a
shoal draft winged keel. It may have been the only one built and was only
built in 1990.
Rod
--Boundary_(ID_43t5ypKLfoLJOlHo8JFJtw)--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Sat Feb 28 14:26:02 2009
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Richard Saunders)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 06:26:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [frers-list]Frers A Jack
References:
Message-ID: <707740.90706.qm@web83815.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
--0-991104259-1235831162=:90706
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Here's an ad for "Frers a Jack" with photos, but none of the keel.=0Ahttp:/=
/ads.boatboss.com/69_West_Palm_Beach/9166_FRERS_33_Sailboat_for_sale.html=
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: rod stright =0ATo: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=0ASent: Saturday, February 28,=
2009 7:28:08 AM=0ASubject: [frers-list]Frers A Jack=0A=0A=0AIt is the one =
that you have listed on the website, built in 1990 and damaged in a hurrica=
ne.=A0 In my quest for info on the Frers 33 I was in contact with the owner=
and he mentioned the boat had a shoal draft winged keel.=A0 It may have be=
en the only one built and was only built in 1990.=0A=A0=0ARod
--0-991104259-1235831162=:90706
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Here's an ad for "Frers a Jack" with photos, but none of the keel.
From: rod stright <strightr@eastlink.ca>
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 7:28:08 AM
Subject: [frers-list]Frers A Jack
It is the one that you have listed on the website, built in 1990 and damaged in a hurricane. In my quest for info on the Frers 33 I was in contact with the owner and he mentioned the boat had a shoal draft winged keel. It may have been the only one built and was only built in 1990.
Rod
Hey - While I have everyone's attention, two things;
1. Who's up for a party in Newport in early July? We'll all bring our boats and a few friends, and see who can get around some
bouys the fastest. Then we'll have a big party on shore and do it all again the next day. Sound like fun?
2. Class dues are coming due. Dave's been handling the bills, so look for a message from him. We are trying to come up with creative ways to boost participation, and raise funds. Our only expenses are for the Web site - and I know you wouldn't want to lose that, and the ad we run in the One Design section of Sailing World that helps attract new owners.
Keep the chatter going!
Art
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