[frers-list]running rigging questions

David Nauber frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:44:04 -0700 (PDT)


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My $0.02 is that the main reason we remove the topping lift is not weight s=
avings (although that is a factor). By using the center line halyard as a t=
opping lift, you can drop the pole and tack after a rounding without having=
 to clear the topping lift. My comment on weight savings was concerning unc=
overing the core of all the halyards.
=A0
We once had a halyard break during a race, creating the same circumstance a=
s an opened shackle. If either happens, use the remaining halyard (center l=
ine or other wing halyard) to re-hoist the sail. At the windward mark, set =
the chute without a pole (if there's crew available have them stand at the =
shrouds=A0holding the guy out), get the jib on the deck and transfer its ha=
lyard to the pole to be used as the topping lift. At the leeward mark, reve=
rse everything, taking the pole off early with someone acting as a human gu=
y, connecting the halyard back onto the jib and hoisting it. Shackle openin=
gs and halyard partings happen, but for us it's once every few years, so wo=
rth the added risk and complication, in my opinion.=20
=A0
That's our reasoning anyway. Everyone needs to=A0decide what they are comfo=
rtable with, which is why it's great to have this forum for the exchange of=
 ideas and opinions!

Fair winds to all.
=A0
Dave Nauber
Wolverine

--- On Thu, 6/25/09, joberdorf@optonline.net <joberdorf@optonline.net> wrot=
e:


From: joberdorf@optonline.net <joberdorf@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [frers-list]running rigging questions
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Cc: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 6:13 PM



I will just say that at one point, we felt we did not need a topping lift. =
We took it out. Needless to say, our next race, the jib mysteriously comes =
down mid leg because the shackle opens and sends the halyard to the top of =
the mast. We managed to figure out how to use the other spin halyard for th=
e jib=A0and set the chute deep and poleless and then switch, but=A0 we put=
=A0the topping lift=A0back the next=A0week. We changed our views of how muc=
h it weighs.
Joyce Oberdorf
(Checkmate, #3)

----- Original Message -----
From: David Nauber=20
Date: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [frers-list]running rigging questions
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com

> Yes, the messenger line is just a small, strong line used to=20
> allow you to easily re-rig it by pulling a new line through the=20
> proper path inside the mast.
>=20
> --- On Mon, 6/22/09, Scott Marino wrote:
>=20
>=20
> From: Scott Marino=20
> Subject: Re: [frers-list]running rigging questions
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 5:57 PM
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Dave,
> The tuning guide recommends moving the main halyard to the port=20
> side and replacing the topping lift with=A0a messenger line.=A0 What=20
> do you use for a messenger line?=A0 Does a messenger line serve=20
> any purpose besides allowing the owner to easily send a new line=20
> up the rig?
> Scott
>=20
> --- On Mon, 6/22/09, David Nauber wrote:
>=20
>=20
> From: David Nauber=20
> Subject: Re: [frers-list]running rigging questions
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 9:22 AM
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Hi Scott,
> =A0
> 1&2
> Yes, you=A0should change all the halyards to line. Check to make=20
> sure the sheaves in the mast crane are smooth. If wire burrs=20
> have been nicking them up, they will chew up the new line. We=20
> use uncovered Vectran to save weight aloft but they degrade=20
> faster in the sun, so whether to eave the cover on is a choice=20
> you will need to make based on cost vs. benefit. The cover=20
> starts just inside the mast with sails hoisted.=A0I replace=20
> halyards about every third season. I also replaced my rope=20
> clutches so the clutches and line work together. It might be one=20
> size smaller than the origianl, but I'd need to look at an=20
> invoice or measure it to confirm the size. See a professional=20
> rigger and go with their advice.
> =A0
> 3
> I will try to get some pictures posted to show our arrangement.=20
> If the line is twisting but otherwise appears to be run properly=20
> (not crossing all over itself and back), then it could just be=20
> that the line itself is twisted. Try pulling all the line=20
> through the blocks a few times to see if it can be made to work=20
> itself out. It sounds like something that=A0would happen if=A0you=20
> coiled a braided mainsheet line incorrectly, then fed it through=20
> the blocks.
> =A0
> Good luck.
> =A0
> Regards,
> =A0
> Dave=20
> Wolverine
>=20
> --- On Mon, 6/22/09, Scott Marino wrote:
>=20
>=20
> From: Scott Marino=20
> Subject: [frers-list]running rigging questions
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 6:50 AM
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Morning gang,
> =A0
> I am recent owner of a Frers 33.=A0 I'm still getting her up to=20
> speed this summer.=A0 I'm looking for info and pics on two topics.
> 1)=A0 How do you rig the cunningham?=A0=20
> 2)=A0 My Mainsail Halyard sticks in the rope clutch which makes it=20
> difficult to lower the sail and appears to need to be replaced.=A0=20
> Currently the Halyard is line to wire.=A0 I'm curious about what=20
> line size to use ona=A0 replacement and if anyone has transitioned=20
> over to an all line halyard eliminating the wire?
> 3)=A0 The Mainsheet keeps twisting and hanging up on itself.=A0=20
> Anyone else have this problem?=A0 How do you fix it?
> =A0
> Thanks in advance.
> =A0
> Scott
> Risoluto
> Hull #17
>=20
> --- On Thu, 6/4/09, rod stright wrote:
>=20
>=20
> From: rod stright=20
> Subject: [frers-list]Frers 33 Tuning Guide
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 8:53 AM
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Hi Fellow Frers 33 sailors/racers.=A0=20
> =A0
> We have had a Fress 33 Tuning Guide posted on the web now for a=20
> couple of months inviting comments.=A0 Bottom line is that apart=20
> from those who have contributed to the development of the Guide=20
> we haven't heard much from anyone else.=A0 We are looking for some=20
> additional rig measurements and settings now that boats are=20
> rigged and in the water.=A0 Our objective is to make it easier to=20
> race your boat competitively wherever you race/sail.=A0 Although=20
> we recognize that a Tuning Guide will always be a work in=20
> progress we would like to finalize this version.
> =A0
> Please have a look at the Guide and provide your comments to the=20
> underside prior to the end of June.
> =A0
> Rod Stright
> S/V EQUINOX
> =A0
> =A0
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =0A=0A=0A      
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>My $0.02 is that the main reason we remo=
ve the topping lift is not weight savings (although that is a factor). By u=
sing the center line halyard as a topping lift, you can drop the pole and t=
ack after a rounding without having to clear the topping lift. My comment o=
n weight savings was concerning uncovering the core of all the halyards.</D=
IV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>We once had a halyard break during a race, creating the same circumsta=
nce as an opened shackle. If either happens, use the remaining halyard (cen=
ter line or other wing halyard) to re-hoist the sail. At the windward mark,=
 set the chute without a pole (if there's crew available have them stand at=
 the shrouds&nbsp;holding the guy out), get the jib on the deck and transfe=
r its halyard to the pole to be used as the topping lift. At the leeward ma=
rk, reverse everything, taking the pole off early with someone acting as a =
human guy, connecting the halyard back onto the jib and hoisting it. Shackl=
e openings and halyard partings happen, but for us it's once every few year=
s, so worth the added risk and complication, in my opinion. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>That's our reasoning anyway. Everyone needs to&nbsp;decide what they a=
re comfortable with, which is why it's great to have this forum for the exc=
hange of ideas and opinions!<BR><BR>Fair winds to all.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Dave Nauber</DIV>
<DIV>Wolverine<BR><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 6/25/09, joberdorf@optonline.net <I>&l=
t;joberdorf@optonline.net&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid"><BR>From: joberdorf@optonline.net &lt;joberdorf@opton=
line.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: [frers-list]running rigging questions<BR>To: f=
rers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR>Cc: frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR>Date: Th=
ursday, June 25, 2009, 6:13 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv1209829499>
<DIV>I will just say that at one point, we felt we did not need a topping l=
ift. We took it out. Needless to say, our next race, the jib mysteriously c=
omes down mid leg because the shackle opens and sends the halyard to the to=
p of the mast. We managed to figure out how to use the other spin halyard f=
or the jib&nbsp;and set the chute deep and poleless and then switch, but&nb=
sp; we put&nbsp;the topping lift&nbsp;back the next&nbsp;week. We changed o=
ur views of how much it weighs.</DIV>
<DIV>Joyce Oberdorf</DIV>
<DIV>(Checkmate, #3)<BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: David Nau=
ber <BR>Date: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:43 pm<BR>Subject: Re: [frers-list]run=
ning rigging questions<BR>To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR><BR>&gt; Yes,=
 the messenger line is just a small, strong line used to <BR>&gt; allow you=
 to easily re-rig it by pulling a new line through the <BR>&gt; proper path=
 inside the mast.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; --- On Mon, 6/22/09, Scott Marino wrote:=
<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; From: Scott Marino <BR>&gt; Subject: Re: [frers-=
list]running rigging questions<BR>&gt; To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR>=
&gt; Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 5:57 PM<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt=
; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dave,<BR>&gt; The tuning guide recomm=
ends moving the main halyard to the port <BR>&gt; side and replacing the to=
pping lift with&nbsp;a messenger line.&nbsp; What <BR>&gt; do you use for a=
 messenger line?&nbsp; Does a messenger line serve <BR>&gt; any
 purpose besides allowing the owner to easily send a new line <BR>&gt; up t=
he rig?<BR>&gt; Scott<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; --- On Mon, 6/22/09, David Nauber wr=
ote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; From: David Nauber <BR>&gt; Subject: Re: [fr=
ers-list]running rigging questions<BR>&gt; To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=
<BR>&gt; Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 9:22 AM<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR=
>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hi Scott,<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; =
1&amp;2<BR>&gt; Yes, you&nbsp;should change all the halyards to line. Check=
 to make <BR>&gt; sure the sheaves in the mast crane are smooth. If wire bu=
rrs <BR>&gt; have been nicking them up, they will chew up the new line. We =
<BR>&gt; use uncovered Vectran to save weight aloft but they degrade <BR>&g=
t; faster in the sun, so whether to eave the cover on is a choice <BR>&gt; =
you will need to make based on cost vs. benefit. The cover <BR>&gt; starts =
just inside the mast with sails hoisted.&nbsp;I replace <BR>&gt;
 halyards about every third season. I also replaced my rope <BR>&gt; clutch=
es so the clutches and line work together. It might be one <BR>&gt; size sm=
aller than the origianl, but I'd need to look at an <BR>&gt; invoice or mea=
sure it to confirm the size. See a professional <BR>&gt; rigger and go with=
 their advice.<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; 3<BR>&gt; I will try to get some pict=
ures posted to show our arrangement. <BR>&gt; If the line is twisting but o=
therwise appears to be run properly <BR>&gt; (not crossing all over itself =
and back), then it could just be <BR>&gt; that the line itself is twisted. =
Try pulling all the line <BR>&gt; through the blocks a few times to see if =
it can be made to work <BR>&gt; itself out. It sounds like something that&n=
bsp;would happen if&nbsp;you <BR>&gt; coiled a braided mainsheet line incor=
rectly, then fed it through <BR>&gt; the blocks.<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; Goo=
d luck.<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; Regards,<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; Dave
 <BR>&gt; Wolverine<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; --- On Mon, 6/22/09, Scott Marino wrot=
e:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; From: Scott Marino <BR>&gt; Subject: [frers-li=
st]running rigging questions<BR>&gt; To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR>&g=
t; Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 6:50 AM<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; =
<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Morning gang,<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; I =
am recent owner of a Frers 33.&nbsp; I'm still getting her up to <BR>&gt; s=
peed this summer.&nbsp; I'm looking for info and pics on two topics.<BR>&gt=
; 1)&nbsp; How do you rig the cunningham?&nbsp; <BR>&gt; 2)&nbsp; My Mainsa=
il Halyard sticks in the rope clutch which makes it <BR>&gt; difficult to l=
ower the sail and appears to need to be replaced.&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Currently =
the Halyard is line to wire.&nbsp; I'm curious about what <BR>&gt; line siz=
e to use ona&nbsp; replacement and if anyone has transitioned <BR>&gt; over=
 to an all line halyard eliminating the wire?<BR>&gt; 3)&nbsp; The
 Mainsheet keeps twisting and hanging up on itself.&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Anyone e=
lse have this problem?&nbsp; How do you fix it?<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; Than=
ks in advance.<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; Scott<BR>&gt; Risoluto<BR>&gt; Hull #=
17<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; --- On Thu, 6/4/09, rod stright wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;=
 <BR>&gt; From: rod stright <BR>&gt; Subject: [frers-list]Frers 33 Tuning G=
uide<BR>&gt; To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR>&gt; Date: Thursday, June =
4, 2009, 8:53 AM<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hi Fe=
llow Frers 33 sailors/racers.&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; We have had a F=
ress 33 Tuning Guide posted on the web now for a <BR>&gt; couple of months =
inviting comments.&nbsp; Bottom line is that apart <BR>&gt; from those who =
have contributed to the development of the Guide <BR>&gt; we haven't heard =
much from anyone else.&nbsp; We are looking for some <BR>&gt; additional ri=
g measurements and settings now that boats are <BR>&gt; rigged and
 in the water.&nbsp; Our objective is to make it easier to <BR>&gt; race yo=
ur boat competitively wherever you race/sail.&nbsp; Although <BR>&gt; we re=
cognize that a Tuning Guide will always be a work in <BR>&gt; progress we w=
ould like to finalize this version.<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; Please have a lo=
ok at the Guide and provide your comments to the <BR>&gt; underside prior t=
o the end of June.<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; Rod Stright<BR>&gt; S/V EQUINOX<B=
R>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <B=
R>&gt; </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table><br>=0A=0A=0A=0A      
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