[frers-list] keeping the boat flat
Stephen, Robert
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Thu, 30 Dec 2010 14:27:37 -0600
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All right guy I too am a spy. I have a frers 36 for about 4 years and =
sailing in Lake Michigan. I am wondering your thoughts on sail inventory =
if I am to start doing some Wednesday night a /or join in on a Saturday =
buoy race form the area. =20
I have an old Dacron mail and a older but lightly used 3dl . =
The 3 DL has no reef points and my experience is to keep the boat =
flatter so I op for the old Dacron only for the 2 reef points. As for =
head sails I have an old light drifter. A 3dl # 1 jib a #3 jib A light =
staysail or wind seeker and 3 spinnakers' =BD oz., =BE ox and1oz
=20
Thanks for any info or advice
Bob Stephen
=20
_____ =20
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Bruton, Tom =
(GECAS)
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 9:20 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list] keeping the boat flat
=20
Gentlemen,
=20
There is a spy amongst you. I recently bought a Frers 36, (a slightly =
older, slightly bigger and more IOR orientated version of your own =
boats), and came across your email group during a "Frers" websearch and =
immediately signed up. Although all this talk of one-design details, and =
custom sail deals does not apply to me, the discussion on bulkhead =
separations was informative, and I have enjoyed all your banter and feel =
somewhat like a close cousin. Just wanted to announce myself, and if you =
don't mind continue to enjoy your comments.
Best Regards
Tom Bruton
"Mystique" =20
=20
_____ =20
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marino
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 10:03 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: Re: [frers-list] keeping the boat flat
All this talk of stoves and weights is interesting but what I really =
want to know is: =20
=20
When going up wind in 20 to 25 kts do you find it best to use the #3 =
with full main or reef the main and carry a bigger headsail? In the tug =
of war between a flat boat and a boat that points as high as possible, =
which is better?
=20
Has anyone ever used a #4?
=20
--- On Thu, 10/28/10, Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net> wrote:
From: Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" <frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 8:31 AM
Ah, good point. I stand corrected! Always check with your local =
authority! Remember we do have a designed base Weight of 9000 lbs. I =
don't know how many have been weighed but going below that would be a =
clear cut PHRF violation as well.=20
Art Kelley
On Oct 28, 2010, at 7:47 AM, Neal Melanson <neal.melanson@gmail.com =
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com> =
> wrote:
"If you race only PHRF then the one design prescriptions go out the =
window. " - Art Kelley
=20
I have to clarify that even PHRF discourages modifications. There are =
serveral hundred pounds the previous owner and I always wanted to strip =
out of Vapor Trail but never did because of the spirit of the "as-built" =
statement in the PHRF rules, that combined with never wanting to hear =
any excuses from the cutthroat SOBs we raced against up here.
=20
Here is the excerpt from PHRFNE.org <http://phrfne.org/> :
"It is the intention of PHRF-NE to handicap boats in an as-built =
configuration. PHRF-NE will adjust the handicaps of boats that have been =
altered from the as- built configuration to completely compensate for =
any expected speed advantage. Variations must be reported to the Chief =
Handicapper so that the Fleet can be more accurately handicapped."
=20
On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:33 AM, Arthur Kelley < =
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net> =
akelley@optonline.net =
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net> > =
wrote:
Oops - sorry I mis-spoke. The water heater is only 15 lbs. It's spelled =
out in the rules.
=20
Art
=20
=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Arthur Kelley =
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net> =20
To: =
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.=
com> frers-list@lists.frers33.com =
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.=
com> =20
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
=20
Frank,
=20
The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of the bulkhead =
of the ice box. I sure we would figure out something if you came to a =
one design event. We definitely want an inclusive fleet but want to =
protect all owners against someone who just wants to beat the rules. If =
you race only PHRF then the one design prescriptions go out the window. =
However to maintain resale and protect the future owner if they want to =
do one design we suggest keeping changes modest and reversable.=20
=20
Art Kelley
On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT < =
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfxalbert@prodigy.net> =
fxalbert@prodigy.net =
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfxalbert@prodigy.net> > =
wrote:
=20
I think Arthur hits the spirt of the rule along with the letter of it. =
However, on my boat I not only didn't get the water heater, I don't even =
have the shelf he's talking about so yikes what kind of weight would I =
be adding. Anyone know what the water heater weighs? =20
=20
Looks like I may not truck the boat up to Newport anytime soon.
=20
Frank Albert
=20
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, Arthur Kelley < =
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net> =
akelley@optonline.net =
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net> > =
wrote:
From: Arthur Kelley < =
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net> =
akelley@optonline.net =
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net> >
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
To: " =
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.=
com> frers-list@lists.frers33.com =
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.=
com> " < =
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.=
com> frers-list@lists.frers33.com =
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.=
com> >
Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM
Looking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc on the site:
=20
5.
If the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel tank (40 lbs, @1/4 full) or =
oven (40 lbs excluding two burner stove top) have been permanently =
moved, removed, or not obtained when the boat was built, a weight equal =
to the item shall be affixed in its intended location during all racing =
events.
=20
A few important principles come out.=20
1. It does not allow that the stove can be removed, only the oven. We =
can discuss how to handle a missing stove in another thread if =
necessary.=20
2. The oven is assumed to be replaceable with 40 lbs of weight.=20
3. Substituted weight must be affixed in the intended location.=20
4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel tank?
=20
#3 means that hot water heater substitute weight for example, cannot be =
consolidated to the bilge, but must be in the lazarette on the shelf =
where the heater would have been. With regards to the oven I suspect it =
is generally agreed that the weight can be placed in the space below the =
stove not necessarily bolted to the bottom of the stove. However it =
should be noted that safety, not only the letter of the rules suggest =
(require?) that the weights be affixed so that in the event of a knock =
down that they do not become life threatening projectiles.=20
=20
We need to be mindful that the one design rules are designed to ensure =
that an owner who cruises the boat can remain competitive with another =
boat which is used exclusively for racing. It is not designed to be a =
strategy for removing a bunch of distributed weight and consolidating it =
centerline below the waterline.=20
=20
Thoughts?
=20
Art Kelley
On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal Melanson < =
<http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com> =
=
<http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com> =
=
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com> =
neal.melanson@gmail.com =
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com> =
> wrote:
...lets all check the Class rules before we start on any weight saving =
programs. I started a fire storm years ago over PBO Backstays and =
Carbon Fibre Rudders.
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod Stright < =
<http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca> =
<http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca> =
<http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca> =
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca> =
StrightR@eastlink.ca =
<http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca> > =
wrote:
Anyone interested in purchasing an Origo stove and oven for the Frers =
33, like new condition seldom used. Intend to replace with an Origo two =
burner stove, would consider a trade.
=20
Rod
Equinox
902-444-0016
=20
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus =
signature database 5571 (20101028) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus =
signature database 5747 (20101230) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>All right guy I too am a spy. I =
have a
frers 36 for about 4 years and sailing in <st1:place w:st=3D"on">Lake =
Michigan</st1:place>.
I am wondering your thoughts on sail inventory if I am to start doing =
some Wednesday
night a /or join in on a Saturday buoy race form the area. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> =
I
have an old Dacron mail and a older but lightly used 3dl . The 3 DL has =
no reef
points and my experience is to keep the boat flatter so I op for the old =
Dacron
only for the 2 reef points. As for head sails I have an old light =
drifter. A 3dl
# 1 jib a #3 jib A light staysail or wind seeker and 3 spinnakers’ =
½
oz., ¾ ox and1oz<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks for any info or =
advice<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob =
Stephen<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Bruton, Tom (GECAS)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, October =
28, 2010
9:20 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [frers-list] =
keeping
the boat flat</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Gentlemen,</span></font><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>There is a spy amongst you. I =
recently
bought a Frers 36, (a slightly older, slightly bigger and more IOR =
orientated
version of your own boats), and came across your email group during a
"Frers" websearch and immediately signed up. Although all this =
talk
of one-design details, and custom sail deals does not apply to me, =
the
discussion on bulkhead separations was informative, and I have enjoyed =
all your
banter and feel somewhat like a close cousin. Just wanted to =
announce
myself, and if you don't mind continue to enjoy your =
comments.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Best =
Regards</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Tom =
Bruton</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>"Mystique" </sp=
an></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Scott Marino<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, October =
28, 2010
10:03 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [frers-list] =
keeping
the boat flat</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 =
cellpadding=3D0>
<tr>
<td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>All this talk of stoves and weights is =
interesting
but what I really want to know is: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>When going up wind in 20 to 25 kts do you =
find it
best to use the #3 with full main or reef the main and carry a bigger
headsail? In the tug of war between a flat boat and a boat that =
points
as high as possible, which is better?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Has anyone ever used a =
#4?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Thu, 10/28/10, Arthur =
Kelley <i><span
=
style=3D'font-style:italic'><akelley@optonline.net></span></i></spa=
n></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
From: Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net><br>
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven<br>
To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com"
<frers-list@lists.frers33.com><br>
Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 8:31 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id=3Dyiv740517234>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Ah, good point. I stand corrected! =
Always
check with your local authority! Remember we do have a designed base =
Weight
of 9000 lbs. I don't know how many have been weighed but going below =
that
would be a clear cut PHRF violation as =
well. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
Art Kelley<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
On Oct 28, 2010, at 7:47 AM, Neal Melanson <<a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmai=
l.com"
target=3D"_blank" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:neal.melanson@gmail.com">neal.melanson@gmail.com</a>>=
;
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' =
type=3Dcite>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>"If you race only PHRF then the one =
design
prescriptions go out the window. " - Art =
Kelley<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>I have to clarify that even PHRF =
discourages modifications.
There are serveral hundred pounds the previous owner and I always =
wanted
to strip out of Vapor Trail but never did because of the spirit of the
"as-built" statement in the PHRF rules, that combined with =
never
wanting to hear any excuses from the cutthroat SOBs we raced =
against up
here.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Here is the excerpt from <a
href=3D"http://phrfne.org/" =
target=3D"_blank">PHRFNE.org</a>:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>"It is the intention of PHRF-NE to =
handicap
boats in an as-built configuration. PHRF-NE will adjust the handicaps =
of
boats that have been altered from the as- built configuration to =
completely
compensate for any expected speed advantage. Variations must be =
reported to
the Chief Handicapper so that the Fleet can be more accurately
handicapped."<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:33 AM, Arthur =
Kelley <<a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.=
net"
target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net"></a><a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.=
net"
target=3D"_blank" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Oops - sorry I mis-spoke. The water heater is =
only
15 lbs. It's spelled out in the rules.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Art</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
=
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
=
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span=
></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.=
net"
target=3D"_blank" title=3D"akelley@optonline.net"
ymailto=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net">Arthur Kelley</a> =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.f=
rers33.com"
target=3D"_blank" title=3D"frers-list@lists.frers33.com"
ymailto=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"></a><a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.f=
rers33.com"
target=3D"_blank" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.=
com</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> =
Wednesday,
October 27, 2010 8:27 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[frers-list]Origo stove and oven<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Frank,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the =
opposite
side of the bulkhead of the ice box. I sure we would figure out =
something if you
came to a one design event. We definitely want an inclusive fleet but =
want to
protect all owners against someone who just wants to beat the rules. =
If you
race only PHRF then the one design prescriptions go out the window. =
However
to maintain resale and protect the future owner if they want to do one =
design
we suggest keeping changes modest and =
reversable. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
Art Kelley<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT <<a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfxalbert@prodigy.n=
et"
target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:fxalbert@prodigy.net"></a><a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfxalbert@prodigy.n=
et"
target=3D"_blank" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:fxalbert@prodigy.net">fxalbert@prodigy.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' =
type=3Dcite>
<div>
<table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 =
cellpadding=3D0>
<tr>
<td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>I think Arthur hits the spirt of the rule =
along
with the letter of it. However, on my boat I not only didn't =
get the
water heater, I don't even have the shelf he's talking about so =
yikes what
kind of weight would I be adding. Anyone know what the water =
heater
weighs? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Looks like I may not truck the boat up to =
<st1:City
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">Newport</st1:place></st1:City> =
anytime soon.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Frank Albert<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>--- On <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Wed,
10/27/10, Arthur Kelley <i><span style=3D'font-style:italic'><<a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.=
net"
target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net"></a><a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.=
net"
target=3D"_blank" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</a>></s=
pan></i></span></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF =
1.5pt;padding:
0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
From: Arthur Kelley <<a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.=
net"
target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net"></a><a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.=
net"
target=3D"_blank" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</a>><br=
>
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven<br>
To: "<a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.f=
rers33.com"
target=3D"_blank" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"></a><a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.f=
rers33.com"
target=3D"_blank" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.=
com</a>"
<<a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.f=
rers33.com"
target=3D"_blank" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"></a><a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.f=
rers33.com"
target=3D"_blank" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.=
com</a>><br>
Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 =
PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Looking at the rules as spelled out in =
the Word
doc on the site:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D4 face=3DTimes><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;
font-family:Times'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div style=3D'margin-left:40.5pt'>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><font size=3D1 face=3DTimes><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;
=
font-family:Times;font-style:italic'>5.<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><font size=3D4 face=3DTimes><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;
font-family:Times;font-style:italic'>If the hot water heater (15 =
lbs) or
fuel tank (40 lbs, @1/4 full) or oven (40 lbs excluding two burner =
stove
top) have been permanently moved, removed, or not obtained when the =
boat
was built, a weight equal to the item shall be affixed in its =
intended
location during all racing events.</span></font></i><font size=3D4
face=3DTimes><span =
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>A few important principles come =
out. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>1. It does not allow that the stove can =
be
removed, only the oven. We can discuss how to handle a missing stove =
in
another thread if necessary. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>2. The oven is assumed to be replaceable =
with 40
lbs of weight. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>3. Substituted weight must be affixed in =
the
intended location. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel =
tank?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>#3 means that hot water heater substitute =
weight
for example, cannot be consolidated to the bilge, but must be in the
lazarette on the shelf where the heater would have been. With =
regards to
the oven I suspect it is generally agreed that the weight can be =
placed in the
space below the stove not necessarily bolted to the bottom of the =
stove.
However it should be noted that safety, not only the letter of the =
rules
suggest (require?) that the weights be affixed so that in the event =
of a
knock down that they do not become life threatening =
projectiles. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>We need to be mindful that the one design =
rules
are designed to ensure that an owner who cruises the boat can remain
competitive with another boat which is used exclusively for racing. =
It is
not designed to be a strategy for removing a bunch of distributed =
weight
and consolidating it centerline below the =
waterline. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Thoughts?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Art Kelley<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal Melanson <<a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmai=
l.com"
target=3D"_blank"></a><a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmai=
l.com"
target=3D"_blank"></a><a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmai=
l.com"
target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:neal.melanson@gmail.com"></a><a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmai=
l.com"
target=3D"_blank" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:neal.melanson@gmail.com">neal.melanson@gmail.com</a>>=
;
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' =
type=3Dcite>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>...lets all check the Class rules before =
we start
on any weight saving programs. I started a fire storm years =
ago over
PBO Backstays and Carbon Fibre Rudders.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod =
Stright <<a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.=
ca"
target=3D"_blank"></a><a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.=
ca"
target=3D"_blank"></a><a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.=
ca"
target=3D"_blank"></a><a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.=
ca"
target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:StrightR@eastlink.ca"></a><a
=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.=
ca"
target=3D"_blank" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:StrightR@eastlink.ca">StrightR@eastlink.ca</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC =
1.0pt;padding:
0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#002060" face=3D"Times =
New Roman"><span
lang=3DEN-CA style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060'>Anyone =
interested in
purchasing an Origo stove and oven for the Frers 33, like new =
condition
seldom used. Intend to replace with an Origo two burner stove, =
would
consider a trade.</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
lang=3DEN-CA
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#002060" face=3D"Times =
New Roman"><span
=
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060'>Rod</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>=
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#002060" face=3D"Times =
New Roman"><span
=
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060'>Equinox</span></font><o:p></o:p>=
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#002060" face=3D"Times =
New Roman"><span
=
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060'>902-444-0016</span></font><o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus =
signature
database 5571 (20101028) __________<br>
<br>
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus =
signature
database 5747 (20101230) __________<br>
<br>
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.<br>
<br>
<a =
href=3D"http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></f=
ont></p>
</div>
<BR><BR>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of =
virus signature database 5747 (20101230) __________<BR><BR>The message =
was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.<BR><BR><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</A><BR> </body>
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