I believe some are using the total weight replacement of the
stove and oven as 40 lbs.
I cannot race one design/class here as I am the only boat.
Most PHRF regs stipulate a stove and most competitors have a
single burner stove that meets the requirement.
While the class rules are commendable perhaps they should be
reviewed to help keep the boats more competitive where most of them now race in
PHRF.
Most boats I race against have no water heater.
I'm not sure what the lead trim blocks are but they are not in
my boat unless they have been glassed over.
With a PHRF rating of 108 in some areas perhaps removal/revision
of some of the equipment requirements should be looked at to help keep the
boats more competitive under PHRF.
I'm not considering removing the stove/oven as a weight saving
measure more to replace it with something that I use and build a cabinet
underneath it. I haven't used an oven on a boat for years.
Regards
Rod
--Boundary_(ID_RuS4S6mgYgmc++9i/+/Yzg)--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Thu Oct 28 00:15:29 2010
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (FRANCIS ALBERT)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:15:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
In-Reply-To: <09081995-49E2-4A96-AA9A-B60C6BFF8996@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <236888.12778.qm@web81104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
--0-1850798000-1288221329=:12778
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=A0
I think Arthur hits the spirt of the rule along with the letter of it.=A0 H=
owever, on my boat I not only didn't get the water heater, I don't even hav=
e the shelf he's talking about so yikes what kind of weight would I be addi=
ng.=A0 Anyone know what the water heater weighs?=A0=20
=A0
Looks like I may not truck the boat up to Newport anytime soon.
=A0
Frank Albert
=A0
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, Arthur Kelley wrote:
From: Arthur Kelley
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com"
Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM
Looking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc on the site:
5.If the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel tank (40 lbs, @1/4 full) or oven=
(40 lbs excluding two burner stove top) have been permanently moved, remov=
ed, or not obtained when the boat was built, a weight equal to the item sha=
ll be affixed in its intended location during all racing events.
A few important principles come out.=A0
1. It does not allow that the stove can be removed, only the oven. We can d=
iscuss how to handle a missing stove in another thread if necessary.=A0
2. The oven is assumed to be replaceable with 40 lbs of weight.=A0
3. Substituted weight must be affixed in the intended location.=A0
4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel tank?
#3 means that hot water heater substitute weight for example, cannot be con=
solidated to the bilge, but must be in the lazarette on the shelf where the=
heater would have been. With regards to the oven I suspect it is generally=
agreed that the weight can be placed in the space below the stove not nece=
ssarily bolted to the bottom of the stove. However it should be noted that =
safety, not only the letter of the rules suggest (require?) that the weight=
s be affixed so that in the event of a knock down that they do not become l=
ife threatening projectiles.=A0
We need to be mindful that the one design rules are designed to ensure that=
an owner who cruises the boat can remain competitive with another boat whi=
ch is used exclusively for racing. It is not designed to be a strategy for =
removing a bunch of distributed weight and consolidating it centerline belo=
w the waterline.=A0
Thoughts?
Art Kelley
On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal Melanson wrote:
...lets all check the Class rules before we start on any weight saving prog=
rams.=A0 I started a fire storm years ago over PBO Backstays and Carbon Fib=
re Rudders.
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod Stright wrote:
Anyone interested in purchasing an Origo stove and oven for the Frers 33, l=
ike new condition seldom used.=A0 Intend to replace with an Origo two burne=
r stove, would consider a trade.
=A0
Rod
Equinox
902-444-0016
--0-1850798000-1288221329=:12778
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think Arthur hits the spirt of the rule along with the letter of it.=
However, on my boat I not only didn't get the water heater, I don't =
even have the shelf he's talking about so yikes what kind of weight would I=
be adding. Anyone know what the water heater weighs?
Looks like I may not truck the boat up to Newport anytime soon.
Frank Albert
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>=
; wrote:
From: Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>=
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
To: "frers-list@lists.=
frers33.com" <frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
Date: Wednesday, Octob=
er 27, 2010, 4:32 PM
Looking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc on the site:
5. If the hot wa=
ter heater (15 lbs) or fuel tank (40 lbs, @1/4 full) or oven (40 lbs exclud=
ing two burner stove top) have been permanently moved, removed, or not obta=
ined when the boat was built, a weight equal to the item shall be affixed i=
n its intended location during all racing events.
A few important principles come out.
1. It does not allow that the stove can be removed, only the oven. We =
can discuss how to handle a missing stove in another thread if necessary.&n=
bsp;
2. The oven is assumed to be replaceable with 40 lbs of weight. <=
/DIV>
3. Substituted weight must be affixed in the intended location. <=
/DIV>
4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel tank?
#3 means that hot water heater substitute weight for example, cannot b=
e consolidated to the bilge, but must be in the lazarette on the shelf wher=
e the heater would have been. With regards to the oven I suspect it is gene=
rally agreed that the weight can be placed in the space below the stove not=
necessarily bolted to the bottom of the stove. However it should be noted =
that safety, not only the letter of the rules suggest (require?) that the w=
eights be affixed so that in the event of a knock down that they do not bec=
ome life threatening projectiles.
We need to be mindful that the one design rules are designed to ensure=
that an owner who cruises the boat can remain competitive with another boa=
t which is used exclusively for racing. It is not designed to be a strategy=
for removing a bunch of distributed weight and consolidating it centerline=
below the waterline.
Thoughts?
Art Kelley
...lets all check the Class rules before we start on any weight saving=
programs. I started a fire storm years ago over PBO Backstays and Ca=
rbon Fibre Rudders.
Anyone interested in purchasing an Origo stove a=
nd oven for the Frers 33, like new condition seldom used. Intend to r=
eplace with an Origo two burner stove, would consider a trade.
Rod
Equinox 902-444-0016
|
--0-1850798000-1288221329=:12778--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Thu Oct 28 01:27:34 2010
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Arthur Kelley)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 20:27:34 -0400
Subject: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
In-Reply-To: <236888.12778.qm@web81104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <236888.12778.qm@web81104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9D7480E6-FA60-4FA1-A00F-88CAAA60F452@optonline.net>
--Apple-Mail-8-680813076
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii
Frank,
The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of the bulkhead of th=
e ice box. I sure we would figure out something if you came to a one design e=
vent. We definitely want an inclusive fleet but want to protect all owners a=
gainst someone who just wants to beat the rules. If you race only PHRF then t=
he one design prescriptions go out the window. However to maintain resale an=
d protect the future owner if they want to do one design we suggest keeping c=
hanges modest and reversable.=20
Art Kelley
On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT wrote:
> =20
> I think Arthur hits the spirt of the rule along with the letter of it. Ho=
wever, on my boat I not only didn't get the water heater, I don't even have t=
he shelf he's talking about so yikes what kind of weight would I be adding. =
Anyone know what the water heater weighs?=20
> =20
> Looks like I may not truck the boat up to Newport anytime soon.
> =20
> Frank Albert
> =20
> --- On Wed, 10/27/10, Arthur Kelley wrote:
>=20
> From: Arthur Kelley
> Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
> To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com"
> Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM
>=20
> Looking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc on the site:
>=20
> 5.
> If the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel tank (40 lbs, @1/4 full) or oven (=
40 lbs excluding two burner stove top) have been permanently moved, removed,=
or not obtained when the boat was built, a weight equal to the item shall b=
e affixed in its intended location during all racing events.
>=20
> A few important principles come out.=20
> 1. It does not allow that the stove can be removed, only the oven. We can d=
iscuss how to handle a missing stove in another thread if necessary.=20
> 2. The oven is assumed to be replaceable with 40 lbs of weight.=20
> 3. Substituted weight must be affixed in the intended location.=20
> 4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel tank?
>=20
> #3 means that hot water heater substitute weight for example, cannot be co=
nsolidated to the bilge, but must be in the lazarette on the shelf where the=
heater would have been. With regards to the oven I suspect it is generally a=
greed that the weight can be placed in the space below the stove not necessa=
rily bolted to the bottom of the stove. However it should be noted that safe=
ty, not only the letter of the rules suggest (require?) that the weights be a=
ffixed so that in the event of a knock down that they do not become life thr=
eatening projectiles.=20
>=20
> We need to be mindful that the one design rules are designed to ensure tha=
t an owner who cruises the boat can remain competitive with another boat whi=
ch is used exclusively for racing. It is not designed to be a strategy for r=
emoving a bunch of distributed weight and consolidating it centerline below t=
he waterline.=20
>=20
> Thoughts?
>=20
> Art Kelley
>=20
> On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal Melanson wrote=
:
>=20
>> ...lets all check the Class rules before we start on any weight saving pr=
ograms. I started a fire storm years ago over PBO Backstays and Carbon Fibr=
e Rudders.
>> =20
>> =20
>> =20
>> =20
>> =20
>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod Stright wrote=
:
>> Anyone interested in purchasing an Origo stove and oven for the Frers 33,=
like new condition seldom used. Intend to replace with an Origo two burner=
stove, would consider a trade.
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> Rod
>>=20
>> Equinox
>>=20
>=20
> 902-444-0016
>=20
>=20
--Apple-Mail-8-680813076
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8
Frank,
The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of the bulkhead of the ice box. I sure we would figure out something if you came to a one design event. We definitely want an inclusive fleet but want to protect all owners against someone who just wants to beat the rules. If you race only PHRF then the one design prescriptions go out the window. However to maintain resale and protect the future owner if they want to do one design we suggest keeping changes modest and reversable.
Art Kelley
I think Arthur hits the spirt of the rule along with the letter of it. However, on my boat I not only didn't get the water heater, I don't even have the shelf he's talking about so yikes what kind of weight would I be adding. Anyone know what the water heater weighs?
Looks like I may not truck the boat up to Newport anytime soon.
Frank Albert
From: Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" <frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM
Looking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc on the site:
5. If the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel tank (40 lbs, @1/4 full) or oven (40 lbs excluding two burner stove top) have been permanently moved, removed, or not obtained when the boat was built, a weight equal to the item shall be affixed in its intended location during all racing events.
A few important principles come out.
1. It does not allow that the stove can be removed, only the oven. We can discuss how to handle a missing stove in another thread if necessary.
2. The oven is assumed to be replaceable with 40 lbs of weight.
3. Substituted weight must be affixed in the intended location.
4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel tank?
#3 means that hot water heater substitute weight for example, cannot be consolidated to the bilge, but must be in the lazarette on the shelf where the heater would have been. With regards to the oven I suspect it is generally agreed that the weight can be placed in the space below the stove not necessarily bolted to the bottom of the stove. However it should be noted that safety, not only the letter of the rules suggest (require?) that the weights be affixed so that in the event of a knock down that they do not become life threatening projectiles.
We need to be mindful that the one design rules are designed to ensure that an owner who cruises the boat can remain competitive with another boat which is used exclusively for racing. It is not designed to be a strategy for removing a bunch of distributed weight and consolidating it centerline below the waterline.
Thoughts?
Art Kelley
...lets all check the Class rules before we start on any weight saving programs. I started a fire storm years ago over PBO Backstays and Carbon Fibre Rudders.
Anyone interested in purchasing an Origo stove and oven for the Frers 33, like new condition seldom used. Intend to replace with an Origo two burner stove, would consider a trade.
Rod
Equinox
902-444-0016
|
--Apple-Mail-8-680813076--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Thu Oct 28 01:32:25 2010
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Arthur Kelley)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 20:32:25 -0400
Subject: [frers-list]Class Regs
In-Reply-To: <000001cb762c$65ea8ce0$31bfa6a0$@ca>
References: <000001cb762c$65ea8ce0$31bfa6a0$@ca>
Message-ID:
--Apple-Mail-9-681103561
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii
Rod,
While we do not have an official class measurer at this point, if you built i=
n an alternative stove, you should weigh in all the bits and we could probab=
ly just call it even or adjust as necessary. Again only an issue if one desi=
gn not PHRF.=20
Art Kelley
On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:12 PM, Rod Stright wrote:
> I believe some are using the total weight replacement of the stove and ove=
n as 40 lbs.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> I cannot race one design/class here as I am the only boat.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Most PHRF regs stipulate a stove and most competitors have a single burner=
stove that meets the requirement.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> While the class rules are commendable perhaps they should be reviewed to h=
elp keep the boats more competitive where most of them now race in PHRF.=20
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Most boats I race against have no water heater.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> I'm not sure what the lead trim blocks are but they are not in my boat unl=
ess they have been glassed over.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> With a PHRF rating of 108 in some areas perhaps removal/revision of some o=
f the equipment requirements should be looked at to help keep the boats more=
competitive under PHRF.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> I'm not considering removing the stove/oven as a weight saving measure mor=
e to replace it with something that I use and build a cabinet underneath it.=
I haven't used an oven on a boat for years.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Regards
>=20
> Rod
>=20
> =20
--Apple-Mail-9-681103561
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8
Rod,
While we do not have an official class measurer at this point, if you built in an alternative stove, you should weigh in all the bits and we could probably just call it even or adjust as necessary. Again only an issue if one design not PHRF.
Art Kelley
I believe some are using the total weight replacement of the
stove and oven as 40 lbs.
I cannot race one design/class here as I am the only boat.
Most PHRF regs stipulate a stove and most competitors have a
single burner stove that meets the requirement.
While the class rules are commendable perhaps they should be
reviewed to help keep the boats more competitive where most of them now race in
PHRF.
Most boats I race against have no water heater.
I'm not sure what the lead trim blocks are but they are not in
my boat unless they have been glassed over.
With a PHRF rating of 108 in some areas perhaps removal/revision
of some of the equipment requirements should be looked at to help keep the
boats more competitive under PHRF.
I'm not considering removing the stove/oven as a weight saving
measure more to replace it with something that I use and build a cabinet
underneath it. I haven't used an oven on a boat for years.
Regards
Rod
--Apple-Mail-9-681103561--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Thu Oct 28 11:33:24 2010
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Arthur Kelley)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 06:33:24 -0400
Subject: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
References: <236888.12778.qm@web81104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <9D7480E6-FA60-4FA1-A00F-88CAAA60F452@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <0D7979AFD8DA4608872F01259AE3B5D7@ArtDell910>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01CB766A.05CEF010
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oops - sorry I mis-spoke. The water heater is only 15 lbs. It's spelled =
out in the rules.
Art
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Arthur Kelley=20
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
Frank,
The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of the bulkhead =
of the ice box. I sure we would figure out something if you came to a =
one design event. We definitely want an inclusive fleet but want to =
protect all owners against someone who just wants to beat the rules. If =
you race only PHRF then the one design prescriptions go out the window. =
However to maintain resale and protect the future owner if they want to =
do one design we suggest keeping changes modest and reversable.=20
Art Kelley
On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT =
wrote:
I think Arthur hits the spirt of the rule along with the =
letter of it. However, on my boat I not only didn't get the water =
heater, I don't even have the shelf he's talking about so yikes what =
kind of weight would I be adding. Anyone know what the water heater =
weighs? =20
Looks like I may not truck the boat up to Newport anytime =
soon.
Frank Albert
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, Arthur Kelley =
wrote:
From: Arthur Kelley
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" =
Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM
Looking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc on the =
site:
5.
If the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel tank (40 lbs, @1/4 =
full) or oven (40 lbs excluding two burner stove top) have been =
permanently moved, removed, or not obtained when the boat was built, a =
weight equal to the item shall be affixed in its intended location =
during all racing events.
A few important principles come out.=20
1. It does not allow that the stove can be removed, only the =
oven. We can discuss how to handle a missing stove in another thread if =
necessary.=20
2. The oven is assumed to be replaceable with 40 lbs of =
weight.=20
3. Substituted weight must be affixed in the intended =
location.=20
4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel tank?
#3 means that hot water heater substitute weight for =
example, cannot be consolidated to the bilge, but must be in the =
lazarette on the shelf where the heater would have been. With regards to =
the oven I suspect it is generally agreed that the weight can be placed =
in the space below the stove not necessarily bolted to the bottom of the =
stove. However it should be noted that safety, not only the letter of =
the rules suggest (require?) that the weights be affixed so that in the =
event of a knock down that they do not become life threatening =
projectiles.=20
We need to be mindful that the one design rules are designed =
to ensure that an owner who cruises the boat can remain competitive with =
another boat which is used exclusively for racing. It is not designed to =
be a strategy for removing a bunch of distributed weight and =
consolidating it centerline below the waterline.=20
Thoughts?
Art Kelley
On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal Melanson =
wrote:
...lets all check the Class rules before we start on any =
weight saving programs. I started a fire storm years ago over PBO =
Backstays and Carbon Fibre Rudders.
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod Stright =
wrote:
Anyone interested in purchasing an Origo stove and oven =
for the Frers 33, like new condition seldom used. Intend to replace =
with an Origo two burner stove, would consider a trade.
Rod
Equinox
902-444-0016
=20
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01CB766A.05CEF010
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oops - sorry I mis-spoke. The =
water heater is=20
only 15 lbs. It's spelled out in the rules.
Art
----- Original Message -----
From:=20
Arthur=20
Kelley
The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of the =
bulkhead of=20
the ice box. I sure we would figure out something if you came to a one =
design=20
event. We definitely want an inclusive fleet but want to protect all =
owners=20
against someone who just wants to beat the rules. If you race only =
PHRF then=20
the one design prescriptions go out the window. However to maintain =
resale and=20
protect the future owner if they want to do one design we suggest =
keeping=20
changes modest and reversable.
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01CB766A.05CEF010--
From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Thu Oct 28 12:47:04 2010
From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Neal Melanson)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 07:47:04 -0400
Subject: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
In-Reply-To: <0D7979AFD8DA4608872F01259AE3B5D7@ArtDell910>
References: <236888.12778.qm@web81104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
<9D7480E6-FA60-4FA1-A00F-88CAAA60F452@optonline.net>
<0D7979AFD8DA4608872F01259AE3B5D7@ArtDell910>
Message-ID: