[frers-list]RE: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #386 - 2 msgs
Rod Stright
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Thu, 28 Oct 2010 09:07:41 -0300
Ours is much the same and where the class allows removing doors, drawers,
etc our PHRF does not, so I think I am going by what I race up here and make
sure I can adjust if I ever get to race class down there. My boat has a lot
of weight additions that offset some of the things that aren't there (extra
20 lb anchor and anchor storage area in the locker) etc. Custom build in
headliner, Starboard trim (that stuff is heavy) over most liner areas, etc.
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of
frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 8:52 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #386 - 2 msgs
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Origo stove and oven (Arthur Kelley)
2. Re: Origo stove and oven (Neal Melanson)
--__--__--
Message: 1
From: "Arthur Kelley" <akelley@optonline.net>
To: <frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 06:33:24 -0400
Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Oops - sorry I mis-spoke. The water heater is only 15 lbs. It's spelled =
out in the rules.
Art
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Arthur Kelley=20
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
Frank,
The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of the bulkhead =
of the ice box. I sure we would figure out something if you came to a =
one design event. We definitely want an inclusive fleet but want to =
protect all owners against someone who just wants to beat the rules. If =
you race only PHRF then the one design prescriptions go out the window. =
However to maintain resale and protect the future owner if they want to =
do one design we suggest keeping changes modest and reversable.=20
Art Kelley
On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT <fxalbert@prodigy.net> =
wrote:
I think Arthur hits the spirt of the rule along with the =
letter of it. However, on my boat I not only didn't get the water =
heater, I don't even have the shelf he's talking about so yikes what =
kind of weight would I be adding. Anyone know what the water heater =
weighs? =20
Looks like I may not truck the boat up to Newport anytime =
soon.
Frank Albert
--- On Wed, 10/27/10, Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net> =
wrote:
From: Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" =
<frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM
Looking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc on the =
site:
5.
If the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel tank (40 lbs, @1/4 =
full) or oven (40 lbs excluding two burner stove top) have been =
permanently moved, removed, or not obtained when the boat was built, a =
weight equal to the item shall be affixed in its intended location =
during all racing events.
A few important principles come out.=20
1. It does not allow that the stove can be removed, only the =
oven. We can discuss how to handle a missing stove in another thread if =
necessary.=20
2. The oven is assumed to be replaceable with 40 lbs of =
weight.=20
3. Substituted weight must be affixed in the intended =
location.=20
4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel tank?
#3 means that hot water heater substitute weight for =
example, cannot be consolidated to the bilge, but must be in the =
lazarette on the shelf where the heater would have been. With regards to =
the oven I suspect it is generally agreed that the weight can be placed =
in the space below the stove not necessarily bolted to the bottom of the =
stove. However it should be noted that safety, not only the letter of =
the rules suggest (require?) that the weights be affixed so that in the =
event of a knock down that they do not become life threatening =
projectiles.=20
We need to be mindful that the one design rules are designed =
to ensure that an owner who cruises the boat can remain competitive with =
another boat which is used exclusively for racing. It is not designed to =
be a strategy for removing a bunch of distributed weight and =
consolidating it centerline below the waterline.=20
Thoughts?
Art Kelley
On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal Melanson =
<neal.melanson@gmail.com> wrote:
...lets all check the Class rules before we start on any =
weight saving programs. I started a fire storm years ago over PBO =
Backstays and Carbon Fibre Rudders.
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod Stright =
<StrightR@eastlink.ca> wrote:
Anyone interested in purchasing an Origo stove and oven =
for the Frers 33, like new condition seldom used. Intend to replace =
with an Origo two burner stove, would consider a trade.
Rod
Equinox
902-444-0016
=20
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META name=3DGENERATOR content=3D"MSHTML 8.00.6001.18975">
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Oops - sorry I mis-spoke. The =
water heater is=20
only 15 lbs. It's spelled out in the rules.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Art</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
dir=3Dltr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dakelley@optonline.net =
href=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net">Arthur=20
Kelley</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com=
</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 27, =
2010 8:27=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [frers-list]Origo =
stove and=20
oven</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Frank,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of the =
bulkhead of=20
the ice box. I sure we would figure out something if you came to a one =
design=20
event. We definitely want an inclusive fleet but want to protect all =
owners=20
against someone who just wants to beat the rules. If you race only =
PHRF then=20
the one design prescriptions go out the window. However to maintain =
resale and=20
protect the future owner if they want to do one design we suggest =
keeping=20
changes modest and reversable. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Art Kelley</DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:fxalbert@prodigy.net">fxalbert@prodigy.net</A>>=20
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
<DIV>
<TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think Arthur hits the spirt of the rule along with the =
letter=20
of it. However, on my boat I not only didn't get the =
water=20
heater, I don't even have the shelf he's talking about so =
yikes what=20
kind of weight would I be adding. Anyone know what the =
water=20
heater weighs? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Looks like I may not truck the boat up to Newport anytime =
soon.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Frank Albert</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>--- On <B>Wed, 10/27/10, Arthur Kelley <I><<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</A>></I></=
B>=20
wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From:=20
Arthur Kelley <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</A>><BR>Su=
bject:=20
Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven<BR>To: "<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com=
</A>"=20
<<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com=
</A>><BR>Date:=20
Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv80101902>
<DIV>
<DIV>Looking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc on =
the=20
site:</DIV>
<DIV><BR><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: 18px" =
class=3Dyiv80101902Apple-style-span>
<DIV style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 54px"=20
class=3Dyiv80101902s13>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT-STYLE: italic; MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: =
0px; FONT-SIZE: 12px"=20
class=3Dyiv80101902s12>5.</DIV><SPAN=20
style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: 18px; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-SIZE: =
18px"=20
class=3Dyiv80101902s4>If the hot water heater (15 lbs) or =
fuel tank=20
(40 lbs, @1/4 full) or oven (40 lbs excluding two burner =
stove top)=20
have been permanently moved, removed, or not obtained when =
the boat=20
was built, a weight equal to the item shall be affixed in =
its=20
intended location during all racing =
events.</SPAN></DIV></SPAN>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>A few important principles come out. </DIV>
<DIV>1. It does not allow that the stove can be removed, =
only the=20
oven. We can discuss how to handle a missing stove in =
another thread=20
if necessary. </DIV>
<DIV>2. The oven is assumed to be replaceable with 40 lbs of =
weight. </DIV>
<DIV>3. Substituted weight must be affixed in the intended=20
location. </DIV>
<DIV>4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel tank?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>#3 means that hot water heater substitute weight for =
example,=20
cannot be consolidated to the bilge, but must be in the =
lazarette on=20
the shelf where the heater would have been. With regards to =
the oven=20
I suspect it is generally agreed that the weight can be =
placed in=20
the space below the stove not necessarily bolted to the =
bottom of=20
the stove. However it should be noted that safety, not only =
the=20
letter of the rules suggest (require?) that the weights be =
affixed=20
so that in the event of a knock down that they do not become =
life=20
threatening projectiles. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>We need to be mindful that the one design rules are =
designed to=20
ensure that an owner who cruises the boat can remain =
competitive=20
with another boat which is used exclusively for racing. It =
is not=20
designed to be a strategy for removing a bunch of =
distributed weight=20
and consolidating it centerline below the =
waterline. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thoughts?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Art Kelley</DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal Melanson <<A=20
=
href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmai=
l.com"=20
rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank=20
ymailto=3D"mailto:neal.melanson@gmail.com"></A><A=20
=
href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmai=
l.com"=20
rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank=20
ymailto=3D"mailto:neal.melanson@gmail.com"><A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:neal.melanson@gmail.com">neal.melanson@gmail.com</A></A>&g=
t;=20
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
<DIV>
<DIV>...lets all check the Class rules before we start on =
any=20
weight saving programs. I started a fire storm years =
ago=20
over PBO Backstays and Carbon Fibre Rudders.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=3Dyiv80101902gmail_quote> </DIV>
<DIV class=3Dyiv80101902gmail_quote>On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 =
at 7:12 AM,=20
Rod Stright <SPAN dir=3Dltr><<A=20
=
href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.=
ca"=20
rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank=20
ymailto=3D"mailto:StrightR@eastlink.ca"></A><A=20
=
href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.=
ca"=20
rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank=20
ymailto=3D"mailto:StrightR@eastlink.ca"></A><A=20
=
href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.=
ca"=20
rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank=20
ymailto=3D"mailto:StrightR@eastlink.ca"><A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:StrightR@eastlink.ca">StrightR@eastlink.ca</A></A>></SP=
AN>=20
wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"=20
class=3Dyiv80101902gmail_quote>
<DIV lang=3DEN-CA>
<DIV>
<P class=3Dyiv80101902MsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; =
FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Anyone=20
interested in purchasing an Origo stove and oven for the =
Frers=20
33, like new condition seldom used. Intend to =
replace with=20
an Origo two burner stove, would consider a=20
trade.</SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=3Dyiv80101902MsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; =
FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<P class=3Dyiv80101902MsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; =
FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Rod</SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<P class=3Dyiv80101902MsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">Equinox</SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<P class=3Dyiv80101902MsoNormal><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">902-444-0016</SPAN></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
=
<DIV></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BO=
DY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01CB766A.05CEF010--
--__--__--
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 07:47:04 -0400
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
From: Neal Melanson <neal.melanson@gmail.com>
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
--001485f87fc6992dc00493abe6f3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
"If you race only PHRF then the one design prescriptions go out the window.
" - Art Kelley
I have to clarify that even PHRF discourages modifications. There are
serveral hundred pounds the previous owner and I always wanted to strip out
of Vapor Trail but never did because of the spirit of the "as-built"
statement in the PHRF rules, that combined with never wanting to hear any
excuses from the cutthroat SOBs we raced against up here.
Here is the excerpt from PHRFNE.org:
"It is the intention of PHRF-NE to handicap boats in an as-built
configuration. PHRF-NE will adjust the handicaps of boats that have been
altered from the as- built configuration to completely compensate for any
expected speed advantage. Variations must be reported to the Chief
Handicapper so that the Fleet can be more accurately handicapped."
On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:33 AM, Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>wrote:
> Oops - sorry I mis-spoke. The water heater is only 15 lbs. It's spelled
> out in the rules.
>
> Art
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>
> *To:* frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:27 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
>
> Frank,
>
> The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of the bulkhead of
> the ice box. I sure we would figure out something if you came to a one
> design event. We definitely want an inclusive fleet but want to protect
all
> owners against someone who just wants to beat the rules. If you race only
> PHRF then the one design prescriptions go out the window. However to
> maintain resale and protect the future owner if they want to do one design
> we suggest keeping changes modest and reversable.
>
>
> Art Kelley
>
> On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT <fxalbert@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>
> I think Arthur hits the spirt of the rule along with the letter of it.
> However, on my boat I not only didn't get the water heater, I don't even
> have the shelf he's talking about so yikes what kind of weight would I be
> adding. Anyone know what the water heater weighs?
>
> Looks like I may not truck the boat up to Newport anytime soon.
>
> Frank Albert
>
> --- On *Wed, 10/27/10, Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>
> Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
> To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" <frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
> Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM
>
> Looking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc on the site:
>
> 5.
> If the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel tank (40 lbs, @1/4 full) or oven
> (40 lbs excluding two burner stove top) have been permanently moved,
> removed, or not obtained when the boat was built, a weight equal to the
item
> shall be affixed in its intended location during all racing events.
>
> A few important principles come out.
> 1. It does not allow that the stove can be removed, only the oven. We can
> discuss how to handle a missing stove in another thread if necessary.
> 2. The oven is assumed to be replaceable with 40 lbs of weight.
> 3. Substituted weight must be affixed in the intended location.
> 4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel tank?
>
> #3 means that hot water heater substitute weight for example, cannot be
> consolidated to the bilge, but must be in the lazarette on the shelf where
> the heater would have been. With regards to the oven I suspect it is
> generally agreed that the weight can be placed in the space below the
stove
> not necessarily bolted to the bottom of the stove. However it should be
> noted that safety, not only the letter of the rules suggest (require?)
that
> the weights be affixed so that in the event of a knock down that they do
not
> become life threatening projectiles.
>
> We need to be mindful that the one design rules are designed to ensure
that
> an owner who cruises the boat can remain competitive with another boat
which
> is used exclusively for racing. It is not designed to be a strategy for
> removing a bunch of distributed weight and consolidating it centerline
below
> the waterline.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Art Kelley
>
> On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal Melanson
<<http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=neal.melanson@gmail.com>
>
neal.melanson@gmail.com<http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=neal.me
lanson@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> ...lets all check the Class rules before we start on any weight saving
> programs. I started a fire storm years ago over PBO Backstays and Carbon
> Fibre Rudders.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod Stright
<<http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=StrightR@eastlink.ca><http://
us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=StrightR@eastlink.ca>
>
StrightR@eastlink.ca<http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=StrightR@e
astlink.ca>
> > wrote:
>
> Anyone interested in purchasing an Origo stove and oven for the Frers 33,
> like new condition seldom used. Intend to replace with an Origo two
burner
> stove, would consider a trade.
>
>
>
> Rod
>
> Equinox
>
> 902-444-0016
>
>
>
--001485f87fc6992dc00493abe6f3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div>"If you race only PHRF then the one design prescriptions go out t=
he window. " - Art Kelley</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>I have to clarify that even PHRF discourages=A0modifications.=A0 There=
are serveral hundred=A0pounds the previous owner and I always wanted to st=
rip out of Vapor Trail but never did because of the spirit of the "as-=
built" statement in the PHRF rules, that combined with never wanting t=
o hear any excuses=A0from the cutthroat SOBs we raced against up here.</div=
>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Here is=A0the excerpt from PHRFNE.org:</div>
<div>
<p>"It is the intention of PHRF-NE to handicap boats in an as-built co=
nfiguration. PHRF-NE will adjust the handicaps of boats that have been alte=
red from the as- built configuration to completely compensate for any expec=
ted speed advantage. Variations must be reported to the Chief Handicapper s=
o that the Fleet can be more accurately handicapped."<br>
</p><br><br></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:33 AM, Arthur Kelley <=
span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net">akelley@opton=
line.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">
<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Oops - sorry I mis-spoke.=A0 The water=
heater is only 15 lbs. It's spelled out in the rules.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font>=A0</div>
<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Art</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font>=A0</div>
<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font>=A0</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PAD=
DING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><b>From:</b> <a title=
=3D"akelley@optonline.net" href=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net" target=3D"=
_blank">Arthur Kelley</a> </div>
<div style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"frers-list@lists.fre=
rs33.com" href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com" target=3D"_blank">fr=
ers-list@lists.frers33.com</a> </div>
<div style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:=
27 PM</div>
<div style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [frers-list]Origo stove=
and oven</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Frank,</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of the bulkhead=
of the ice box. I sure we would figure out something if you came to a one =
design event. We definitely want an inclusive fleet but want to protect all=
owners against someone who just wants to beat the rules. If you race only =
PHRF then the one design prescriptions go out the window. However to mainta=
in resale and protect the future owner if they want to do one design we sug=
gest keeping changes modest and reversable.=A0</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br>Art Kelley</div>
<div><br>On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT <<a href=3D"mailto:=
fxalbert@prodigy.net" target=3D"_blank">fxalbert@prodigy.net</a>> wrote:=
<br><br></div>
<div></div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top">
<div>=A0</div>
<div>I think Arthur hits the spirt of the rule along with the letter of it.=
=A0 However, on my boat I not only didn't get the water heater, I don&#=
39;t even have the shelf he's talking about so yikes what kind of weigh=
t would I be adding.=A0 Anyone know what the water heater weighs?=A0 </div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Looks like I may not truck the boat up to Newport anytime soon.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Frank Albert</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>--- On <b>Wed, 10/27/10, Arthur Kelley <i><<a href=3D"mailto:akelle=
y@optonline.net" target=3D"_blank">akelley@optonline.net</a>></i></b> wr=
ote:<br></div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5=
px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><br>From: Arthur Kelley <<a href=3D"mailto:akelley=
@optonline.net" target=3D"_blank">akelley@optonline.net</a>><br>Subject:=
Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven<br>
To: "<a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@li=
sts.frers33.com" target=3D"_blank">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a>><br>=
Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM<br>
<br>
<div>
<div>
<div>Looking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc on the site:</div>
<div><br><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: 18px">
<div style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 54px">
<div style=3D"FONT-STYLE: italic; MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT=
-SIZE: 12px">5.</div><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: 18px; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
FONT-SIZE: 18px">If the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel tank (40 lbs, @1/=
4 full) or oven (40 lbs excluding two burner stove top) have been permanent=
ly moved, removed, or not obtained when the boat was built, a weight equal =
to the item shall be affixed in its intended location during all racing eve=
nts.</span></div>
</span>
<div><br></div>
<div>A few important principles come out.=A0</div>
<div>1. It does not allow that the stove can be removed, only the oven. We =
can discuss how to handle a missing stove in another thread if necessary.=
=A0</div>
<div>2. The oven is assumed to be replaceable with 40 lbs of weight.=A0</di=
v>
<div>3. Substituted weight must be affixed in the intended location.=A0</di=
v>
<div>4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel tank?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>#3 means that hot water heater substitute weight for example, cannot b=
e consolidated to the bilge, but must be in the lazarette on the shelf wher=
e the heater would have been. With regards to the oven I suspect it is gene=
rally agreed that the weight can be placed in the space below the stove not=
necessarily bolted to the bottom of the stove. However it should be noted =
that safety, not only the letter of the rules suggest (require?) that the w=
eights be affixed so that in the event of a knock down that they do not bec=
ome life threatening projectiles.=A0</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>We need to be mindful that the one design rules are designed to ensure=
that an owner who cruises the boat can remain competitive with another boa=
t which is used exclusively for racing. It is not designed to be a strategy=
for removing a bunch of distributed weight and consolidating it centerline=
below the waterline.=A0</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Thoughts?</div>
<div><br></div>Art Kelley</div>
<div><br>On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal Melanson <<a href=3D"http://u=
s.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com" rel=3D"nofo=
llow" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/co=
mpose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"><a h=
ref=3D"mailto:neal.melanson@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">neal.melanson@gmai=
l.com</a></a>> wrote:<br>
<br></div>
<div></div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div>...lets all check the Class rules before we start on any weight saving=
programs.=A0 I started a fire storm years ago over PBO Backstays and Carbo=
n Fibre Rudders.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod Stright <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a =
href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca=
" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.ya=
hoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_b=
lank"></a><a href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStright=
R@eastlink.ca" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"><a href=3D"mailto:Stright=
R@eastlink.ca" target=3D"_blank">StrightR@eastlink.ca</a></a>></span> wr=
ote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex">
<div lang=3D"EN-CA">
<div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">Anyone interested in purchasing an Origo stove and oven for the Frers=
33, like new condition seldom used.=A0 Intend to replace with an Origo two=
burner stove, would consider a trade.</span></p>
</div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"></span>=A0</p></div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">Rod</span></p></blockquote></div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">Equinox</span></p></blockquote></div>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">902-444-0016</span></p></div></blockquote><br>
<div></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div></blockquote></blockquote></div>=
</blockquote></div><br>
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