[frers-list] keeping the boat flat
Arthur Kelley
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:41:38 -0400
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If you are in the NE region we can talk to our sales team and see if they wi=
ll accept. Heck, a Frers is a Frers, and a sail is a sail!
Art Kelley
On Oct 29, 2010, at 10:47 AM, "Bruton, Tom (GECAS)" <Tom.Bruton@gecas.com> w=
rote:
> Happily paid if I can get a sails deal like the one you've negotiated!
> Tom
>=20
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com <frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.c=
om>=20
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com <frers-list@lists.frers33.com>=20
> Sent: Fri Oct 29 10:31:32 2010
> Subject: Re: [frers-list] keeping the boat flat=20
>=20
> Chuckle. You know that Tom can't see the twinkle in you eye or the tongue=
in your cheek........
>=20
> From: David Nauber <dnauber@yahoo.com>
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 2:42:50 PM
> Subject: RE: [frers-list] keeping the boat flat
>=20
> Welcome Tom,
>=20
> Just be aware that class association dues for the rich guys with the bigge=
r boats are MUCH higher.
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Dave Nauber
> Wolverine
>=20
> --- On Thu, 10/28/10, Bruton, Tom (GECAS) <Tom.Bruton@gecas.com> wrote:
>=20
> From: Bruton, Tom (GECAS) <Tom.Bruton@gecas.com>
> Subject: RE: [frers-list] keeping the boat flat
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 10:20 AM
>=20
> Gentlemen,
> =20
> There is a spy amongst you. I recently bought a Frers 36, (a slightly olde=
r, slightly bigger and more IOR orientated version of your own boats), and c=
ame across your email group during a "Frers" websearch and immediately signe=
d up. Although all this talk of one-design details, and custom sail deals do=
es not apply to me, the discussion on bulkhead separations was informative, a=
nd I have enjoyed all your banter and feel somewhat like a close cousin. Jus=
t wanted to announce myself, and if you don't mind continue to enjoy your co=
mments.
> Best Regards
> Tom Bruton
> "Mystique" =20
>=20
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.fr=
ers33.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marino
> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 10:03 AM
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: Re: [frers-list] keeping the boat flat
>=20
> All this talk of stoves and weights is interesting but what I really want t=
o know is:=20
> =20
> When going up wind in 20 to 25 kts do you find it best to use the #3 with f=
ull main or reef the main and carry a bigger headsail? In the tug of war be=
tween a flat boat and a boat that points as high as possible, which is bette=
r?
> =20
> Has anyone ever used a #4?
> =20
>=20
>=20
> --- On Thu, 10/28/10, Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net> wrote:
>=20
> From: Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>
> Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
> To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" <frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
> Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 8:31 AM
>=20
> Ah, good point. I stand corrected! Always check with your local authority=
! Remember we do have a designed base Weight of 9000 lbs. I don't know how m=
any have been weighed but going below that would be a clear cut PHRF violati=
on as well.=20
>=20
> Art Kelley
>=20
> On Oct 28, 2010, at 7:47 AM, Neal Melanson <neal.melanson@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>=20
>> "If you race only PHRF then the one design prescriptions go out the windo=
w. " - Art Kelley
>> =20
>> I have to clarify that even PHRF discourages modifications. There are se=
rveral hundred pounds the previous owner and I always wanted to strip out of=
Vapor Trail but never did because of the spirit of the "as-built" statement=
in the PHRF rules, that combined with never wanting to hear any excuses fro=
m the cutthroat SOBs we raced against up here.
>> =20
>> Here is the excerpt from PHRFNE.org:
>> "It is the intention of PHRF-NE to handicap boats in an as-built configur=
ation. PHRF-NE will adjust the handicaps of boats that have been altered fro=
m the as- built configuration to completely compensate for any expected spee=
d advantage. Variations must be reported to the Chief Handicapper so that th=
e Fleet can be more accurately handicapped."
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:33 AM, Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net> wr=
ote:
>> Oops - sorry I mis-spoke. The water heater is only 15 lbs. It's spelled o=
ut in the rules.
>> =20
>> Art
>> =20
>> =20
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Arthur Kelley
>> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
>>=20
>> Frank,
>>=20
>> The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of the bulkhead of=
the ice box. I sure we would figure out something if you came to a one desi=
gn event. We definitely want an inclusive fleet but want to protect all owne=
rs against someone who just wants to beat the rules. If you race only PHRF t=
hen the one design prescriptions go out the window. However to maintain resa=
le and protect the future owner if they want to do one design we suggest kee=
ping changes modest and reversable.=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Art Kelley
>>=20
>> On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT <fxalbert@prodigy.net> wrote:=
>>=20
>>> =20
>>> I think Arthur hits the spirt of the rule along with the letter of it. H=
owever, on my boat I not only didn't get the water heater, I don't even have=
the shelf he's talking about so yikes what kind of weight would I be adding=
. Anyone know what the water heater weighs?=20
>>> =20
>>> Looks like I may not truck the boat up to Newport anytime soon.
>>> =20
>>> Frank Albert
>>> =20
>>> --- On Wed, 10/27/10, Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> From: Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
>>> To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" <frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
>>> Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM
>>>=20
>>> Looking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc on the site:
>>>=20
>>> 5.
>>> If the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel tank (40 lbs, @1/4 full) or ove=
n (40 lbs excluding two burner stove top) have been permanently moved, remov=
ed, or not obtained when the boat was built, a weight equal to the item shal=
l be affixed in its intended location during all racing events.
>>>=20
>>> A few important principles come out.=20
>>> 1. It does not allow that the stove can be removed, only the oven. We ca=
n discuss how to handle a missing stove in another thread if necessary.=20
>>> 2. The oven is assumed to be replaceable with 40 lbs of weight.=20
>>> 3. Substituted weight must be affixed in the intended location.=20
>>> 4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel tank?
>>>=20
>>> #3 means that hot water heater substitute weight for example, cannot be c=
onsolidated to the bilge, but must be in the lazarette on the shelf where th=
e heater would have been. With regards to the oven I suspect it is generally=
agreed that the weight can be placed in the space below the stove not neces=
sarily bolted to the bottom of the stove. However it should be noted that sa=
fety, not only the letter of the rules suggest (require?) that the weights b=
e affixed so that in the event of a knock down that they do not become life t=
hreatening projectiles.=20
>>>=20
>>> We need to be mindful that the one design rules are designed to ensure t=
hat an owner who cruises the boat can remain competitive with another boat w=
hich is used exclusively for racing. It is not designed to be a strategy for=
removing a bunch of distributed weight and consolidating it centerline belo=
w the waterline.=20
>>>=20
>>> Thoughts?
>>>=20
>>> Art Kelley
>>>=20
>>> On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal Melanson <neal.melanson@gmail.com> wro=
te:
>>>=20
>>>> ...lets all check the Class rules before we start on any weight saving p=
rograms. I started a fire storm years ago over PBO Backstays and Carbon Fib=
re Rudders.
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod Stright <StrightR@eastlink.ca> wro=
te:
>>>> Anyone interested in purchasing an Origo stove and oven for the Frers 3=
3, like new condition seldom used. Intend to replace with an Origo two burn=
er stove, would consider a trade.
>>>> =20
>>>> Rod
>>>> Equinox
>>>=20
>>> 902-444-0016
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20
>=20
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<html><body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>If you are in the NE region we can talk=
to our sales team and see if they will accept. Heck, a Frers is a Frers, an=
d a sail is a sail!<br><br>Art Kelley</div><div><br>On Oct 29, 2010, at 10:4=
7 AM, "Bruton, Tom (GECAS)" <<a href=3D"mailto:Tom.Bruton@gecas.com">Tom.=
Bruton@gecas.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type=3D"=
cite"><div><div><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial">
Happily paid if I can get a sails deal like the one you've negotiated!<br>To=
m</font></div>
<br><div><hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center" tabindex=3D"-1">
<font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2">
<b>From</b>: <a href=3D"mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com">frers-lis=
t-admin@lists.frers33.com</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.f=
rers33.com">frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com</a>>
<br><b>To</b>: <a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@li=
sts.frers33.com</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frer=
s-list@lists.frers33.com</a>>
<br><b>Sent</b>: Fri Oct 29 10:31:32 2010<br><b>Subject</b>: Re: [frers-list=
] keeping the boat flat
<br></font><br></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:tahoma, new york, times, serif;font-size:10pt"><di=
v>Chuckle. You know that Tom can't see the twinkle in you eye or the t=
ongue in your cheek........<br></div>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">=
<br>
<div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZ=
E: 12pt"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma">
<hr size=3D"1">
<b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</span></b> David Nauber <<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:dnauber@yahoo.com">dnauber@yahoo.com</a>><br><b><span style=3D=
"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> <a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers3=
3.com"><a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frer=
s33.com</a></a><br><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Thu=
, October 28, 2010 2:42:50 PM<br><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subjec=
t:</span></b> RE: [frers-list] keeping the boat flat<br></font><br>
<table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top">Welcome Tom,=20
<div><br></div>
<div>Just be aware that class association dues for the rich guys with the bi=
gger boats are MUCH higher.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Dave Nauber</div>
<div>Wolverine<br><br>--- On <b>Thu, 10/28/10, Bruton, Tom (GECAS) <i><<a=
href=3D"mailto:Tom.Bruton@gecas.com">Tom.Bruton@gecas.com</a>></i></b> w=
rote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5p=
x; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><br>From: Bruton, Tom (GECAS) <<a href=3D"mailto:Tom=
.Bruton@gecas.com">Tom.Bruton@gecas.com</a>><br>Subject: RE: [frers-list]=
keeping the boat flat<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com=
"><a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.c=
om</a></a><br>Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 10:20 AM<br><br>
<div id=3D"yiv1110194753">
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"yiv1110194753556390914-281020=
10"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Gentlemen,</font></spa=
n></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"yiv1110194753556390914-281020=
10"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font></span> </=
div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"yiv1110194753556390914-281020=
10"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">There is a spy amongst=
you. I recently bought a Frers 36, (a slightly older, slightly bigger and m=
ore IOR orientated version of your own boats), and came across your email gr=
oup during a "Frers" websearch and immediately signed up. Although all this t=
alk of one-design details, and custom sail deals does not apply to me, t=
he discussion on bulkhead separations was informative, and I have enjoyed al=
l your banter and feel somewhat like a close cousin. Just wanted to ann=
ounce myself, and if you don't mind continue to enjoy your comments.</f=
ont></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"yiv1110194753556390914-281020=
10"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Best Regards</font></s=
pan></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"yiv1110194753556390914-281020=
10"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Tom Bruton</font></spa=
n></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"yiv1110194753556390914-281020=
10"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">"Mystique" =
</font></span></div><br>
<div dir=3D"ltr" lang=3D"en-us" class=3D"yiv1110194753OutlookMessageHeader" a=
lign=3D"left">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:frers-list-a=
dmin@lists.frers33.com">frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com</a> [mailto:frers=
-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott Marino<br><b>Sent:<=
/b> Thursday, October 28, 2010 10:03 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:frer=
s-list@lists.frers33.com"><a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">fr=
ers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [frers-list] keepi=
ng the boat flat<br></font><br></div>
<div></div>
<table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top">
<div>All this talk of stoves and weights is interesting but what I really wa=
nt to know is: </div>
<div> </div>
<div>When going up wind in 20 to 25 kts do you find it best to use the #3 wi=
th full main or reef the main and carry a bigger headsail? In the tug o=
f war between a flat boat and a boat that points as high as possible, which i=
s better?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Has anyone ever used a #4?</div>
<div> </div>
<div><br><br>--- On <b>Thu, 10/28/10, Arthur Kelley <i><<a href=3D"mailto=
:akelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</a>></i></b> wrote:<br></di=
v>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5p=
x; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><br>From: Arthur Kelley <<a href=3D"mailto:akelley@o=
ptonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</a>><br>Subject: Re: [frers-list]Orig=
o stove and oven<br>To: "<a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">fre=
rs-list@lists.frers33.com</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers3=
3.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a>><br>Date: Thursday, October 28, 2=
010, 8:31 AM<br><br>
<div id=3D"yiv1110194753yiv740517234">
<div>Ah, good point. I stand corrected! Always check with your local a=
uthority! Remember we do have a designed base Weight of 9000 lbs. I don't kn=
ow how many have been weighed but going below that would be a clear cut PHRF=
violation as well. </div>
<div><br>Art Kelley</div>
<div><br>On Oct 28, 2010, at 7:47 AM, Neal Melanson <<a href=3D"http://us=
.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com" rel=3D"nofoll=
ow" target=3D"_blank"><a href=3D"mailto:neal.melanson@gmail.com">neal.melans=
on@gmail.com</a></a>> wrote:<br><br></div>
<div></div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div>"If you race only PHRF then the one design prescriptions go out the win=
dow. " - Art Kelley</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I have to clarify that even PHRF discourages modifications. T=
here are serveral hundred pounds the previous owner and I always wanted=
to strip out of Vapor Trail but never did because of the spirit of the "as-=
built" statement in the PHRF rules, that combined with never wanting to hear=
any excuses from the cutthroat SOBs we raced against up here.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Here is the excerpt from <a href=3D"http://phrfne.org/" rel=3D"nof=
ollow" target=3D"_blank"><a href=3D"http://PHRFNE.org">PHRFNE.org</a></a>:</=
div>
<div>
<div>"It is the intention of PHRF-NE to handicap boats in an as-built config=
uration. PHRF-NE will adjust the handicaps of boats that have been altered f=
rom the as- built configuration to completely compensate for any expected sp=
eed advantage. Variations must be reported to the Chief Handicapper so that t=
he Fleet can be more accurately handicapped."<br></div><br><br></div>
<div class=3D"yiv1110194753yiv740517234gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6=
:33 AM, Arthur Kelley <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.=
yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"=
_blank"></a><a href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelle=
y@optonline.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"><a href=3D"mailto:akelle=
y@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</a></a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"yiv1110194753yiv740517234gmail_quote">
<div>
<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Oops - sorry I mis-spoke. The wat=
er heater is only 15 lbs. It's spelled out in the rules.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Art</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font> </div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADD=
ING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><b>From:</b> <a title=3D=
"akelley@optonline.net" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=
=3Dakelley@optonline.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">Arthur Kelley</=
a> </div>
<div style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title=3D"frers-list@lists.frer=
s33.com" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@l=
ists.frers33.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"http://u=
s.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel=3D"=
nofollow" target=3D"_blank"><a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">=
frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a> </div>
<div style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:2=
7 PM</div>
<div style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [frers-list]Origo stove a=
nd oven</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Frank,</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of the bulkhead o=
f the ice box. I sure we would figure out something if you came to a one des=
ign event. We definitely want an inclusive fleet but want to protect all own=
ers against someone who just wants to beat the rules. If you race only PHRF t=
hen the one design prescriptions go out the window. However to maintain resa=
le and protect the future owner if they want to do one design we suggest kee=
ping changes modest and reversable. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br>Art Kelley</div>
<div><br>On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT <<a href=3D"http://u=
s.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfxalbert@prodigy.net" rel=3D"nofollow=
" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose=
?to=3Dfxalbert@prodigy.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"><a href=3D"ma=
ilto:fxalbert@prodigy.net">fxalbert@prodigy.net</a></a>> wrote:<br><br></=
div>
<div></div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top">
<div> </div>
<div>I think Arthur hits the spirt of the rule along with the letter of it.&=
nbsp; However, on my boat I not only didn't get the water heater, I don't ev=
en have the shelf he's talking about so yikes what kind of weight would I be=
adding. Anyone know what the water heater weighs? </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Looks like I may not truck the boat up to Newport anytime soon.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Frank Albert</div>
<div> </div>
<div>--- On <b>Wed, 10/27/10, Arthur Kelley <i><<a href=3D"http://us.mc52=
2.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net" rel=3D"nofollow" tar=
get=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3D=
akelley@optonline.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"><a href=3D"mailto:=
akelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</a></a>></i></b> wrote:<br><=
/div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5p=
x; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><br>From: Arthur Kelley <<a href=3D"http://us.mc522.=
mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net" rel=3D"nofollow" targe=
t=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Da=
kelley@optonline.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"><a href=3D"mailto:a=
kelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</a></a>><br>Subject: Re: [fre=
rs-list]Origo stove and oven<br>To: "<a href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.c=
om/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"=
_blank"></a><a href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-=
list@lists.frers33.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"><a href=3D"mailto=
:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a>" <<a h=
ref=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers=
33.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"http://us.mc522.ma=
il.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel=3D"nofollow" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@=
lists.frers33.com</a></a>><br>Date: Wednesday,
October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM<br><br>
<div>
<div>
<div>Looking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc on the site:</div>
<div><br><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: 18px">
<div style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 54px">
<div style=3D"FONT-STYLE: italic; MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-=
SIZE: 12px">5.</div><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: 18px; FONT-STYLE: italic; FO=
NT-SIZE: 18px">If the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel tank (40 lbs, @1/4 f=
ull) or oven (40 lbs excluding two burner stove top) have been permanently m=
oved, removed, or not obtained when the boat was built, a weight equal to th=
e item shall be affixed in its intended location during all racing events.</=
span></div></span>
<div><br></div>
<div>A few important principles come out. </div>
<div>1. It does not allow that the stove can be removed, only the oven. We c=
an discuss how to handle a missing stove in another thread if necessary.&nbs=
p;</div>
<div>2. The oven is assumed to be replaceable with 40 lbs of weight. </=
div>
<div>3. Substituted weight must be affixed in the intended location. </=
div>
<div>4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel tank?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>#3 means that hot water heater substitute weight for example, cannot be=
consolidated to the bilge, but must be in the lazarette on the shelf where t=
he heater would have been. With regards to the oven I suspect it is generall=
y agreed that the weight can be placed in the space below the stove not nece=
ssarily bolted to the bottom of the stove. However it should be noted that s=
afety, not only the letter of the rules suggest (require?) that the weights b=
e affixed so that in the event of a knock down that they do not become life t=
hreatening projectiles. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>We need to be mindful that the one design rules are designed to ensure t=
hat an owner who cruises the boat can remain competitive with another boat w=
hich is used exclusively for racing. It is not designed to be a strategy for=
removing a bunch of distributed weight and consolidating it centerline belo=
w the waterline. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Thoughts?</div>
<div><br></div>Art Kelley</div>
<div><br>On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal Melanson <<a href=3D"http://us=
.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com" rel=3D"nofoll=
ow" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compo=
se?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"></a><a h=
ref=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.co=
m" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.ya=
hoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"=
_blank"><a href=3D"mailto:neal.melanson@gmail.com">neal.melanson@gmail.com</=
a></a>> wrote:<br><br></div>
<div></div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div>...lets all check the Class rules before we start on any weight saving p=
rograms. I started a fire storm years ago over PBO Backstays and Carbo=
n Fibre Rudders.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod Stright <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a h=
ref=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca" r=
el=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.=
com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"=
></a><a href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@east=
link.ca" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"http://us.mc522.m=
ail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D=
"_blank"></a><a href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrig=
htR@eastlink.ca" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"><a href=3D"mailto:Strigh=
tR@eastlink.ca">StrightR@eastlink.ca</a></a>></span> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
PADDING-LEFT: 1ex">
<div lang=3D"EN-CA">
<div>
<div><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">A=
nyone interested in purchasing an Origo stove and oven for the Frers 33, lik=
e new condition seldom used. Intend to replace with an Origo two burne=
r stove, would consider a trade.</span></div></div>
<div><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><=
/span> </div></div>
<div><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">R=
od</span></div></blockquote></div>
<div><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">E=
quinox</span></div></blockquote></div>
<div><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">9=
02-444-0016</span></div></div></blockquote><br>
<div></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div></blockquote></blockquote></div><=
/blockquote></div><br></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbod=
y></table><br></div></blockquote></div></td></tr></tbody></table><br></div><=
/div></div>
</div></blockquote></body></html>=
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