[frers-list] keeping the boat flat
David Nauber
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Fri, 29 Oct 2010 14:04:38 -0700 (PDT)
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Hi Tom,=A0
If you'd be interested I am sure Jack would put your sail order in with our=
s. The more we get the better and we were right on the edge for the tenth s=
ail we needed. Let me know and I'll talk to Jack. If you have a different s=
ales guy already, it's not a problem--he will get the proper commission.
Regards,
Dave
--- On Fri, 10/29/10, Bruton, Tom (GECAS) <Tom.Bruton@gecas.com> wrote:
From: Bruton, Tom (GECAS) <Tom.Bruton@gecas.com>
Subject: RE: [frers-list] keeping the boat flat
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Date: Friday, October 29, 2010, 2:11 PM
=0A=0A =0A =0A =0AIn Connecticut Art, so I think I =0Aqualify.
=0A=0A=0AFrom: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =0A[mailto:frers-list-adm=
in@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Arthur =0AKelley
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 1:42 PM
To: =0Afrers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: Re: [frers-list] keeping the =0Aboat flat
=0A=0AIf you are in the NE region we can talk to our sales team and see if =
they =0Awill accept. Heck, a Frers is a Frers, and a sail is a sail!
Art =0AKelley=0A
On Oct 29, 2010, at 10:47 AM, "Bruton, Tom (GECAS)" <Tom.Bruton@gecas.com> =
=0Awrote:
=0A=0A=0A =0A Happily paid if I can get a sails deal =0A like the one yo=
u've negotiated!
Tom
=0A =0A =0A From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =0A <frers-list-ad=
min@lists.frers33.com> =0A =20
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com =0A <frers-list@lists.frers33.com> =0A =
=20
Sent: Fri Oct 29 10:31:32 2010
Subject: Re: [frers-list] =0A keeping the boat flat=20
=0A =0A Chuckle.=A0 You know that Tom can't see the twinkle in you eye or=
the =0A tongue in your cheek........
=0A =20
=0A =0A =0A From: David Nauber <dnauber@yahoo.com>
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 2:42:50 =0A PM
Subject: RE: [frers-list] =0A keeping the boat flat
=0A =0A =0A =0A Welcome Tom, =0A =20
=0A Just be aware that class association dues for the rich guys with=
=0A the bigger boats are MUCH higher.=0A =20
=0A Regards,=0A =20
=0A Dave Nauber=0A Wolverine
--- On Thu, 10/28/10, Bruton, Tom (GECAS) =0A <Tom.Bruton@gecas.com>=
=0A wrote:
=0A =20
From: =0A Bruton, Tom (GECAS) <Tom.Bruton@gecas.com>
Subject: =0A RE: [frers-list] keeping the boat flat
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Date: =0A Thursday, October 28, 2010, 10:20 AM
=0A =0A Gentlemen,=0A =A0=0A There is a=
spy amongst you. I recently bought a Frers 36, =0A (a slightly ol=
der, slightly bigger and more IOR orientated version of =0A your o=
wn boats), and came across your email group during a "Frers" =0A w=
ebsearch and immediately signed up. Although all this talk of =0A =
one-design details,=A0and custom sail deals does not apply to me, =0A =
the discussion on bulkhead separations was informative, and I have =0A =
enjoyed all your banter and=A0feel somewhat like a close cousin. =
=0A Just wanted to announce myself, and if you don't mind continue=
=0A to=A0enjoy your comments.=0A Best Regards=0A =
Tom Bruton=0A "Mystique"=A0=A0
=0A =0A =0A From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33=
.com =0A [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of =
Scott =0A Marino
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 10:03 =0A AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: =0A Re: [frers-list] keeping the boat flat
=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =
=0A All this talk of stoves and weights is interesting but w=
hat =0A I really want to know is:=A0 =0A =A0=
=0A When going up wind in 20 to 25 kts do you find it best t=
o =0A use the #3 with full main or reef the main and carry a=
bigger =0A headsail?=A0 In the tug of war between a flat bo=
at and a boat =0A that points as high as possible, which is =
better?=0A =A0=0A Has anyone ever used a #4?=
=0A =A0=0A =20
--- On Thu, 10/28/10, Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net> =0A =
wrote:
=0A =20
From: =0A Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>
Subject: =0A Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" =0A <frers-list@lists.f=
rers33.com>
Date: =0A Thursday, October 28, 2010, 8:31 AM
=0A =0A Ah, good point. I stand corrected=
! =A0Always check =0A with your local authority! Remember =
we do have a designed base =0A Weight of 9000 lbs. I don't=
know how many have been weighed =0A but going below that =
would be a clear cut PHRF violation as =0A well.=A0=0A =
=20
Art Kelley=0A =20
On Oct 28, 2010, at 7:47 AM, Neal Melanson <neal.melanson@gmail.com> =0A =
wrote:
=0A =0A =0A =0A =
"If you race only PHRF then the one design =0A =
prescriptions go out the window. " - Art Kelley=0A =
=A0=0A I have to clarify that even PHRF =0A =
discourages=A0modifications.=A0 There are serveral =0A =
hundred=A0pounds the previous owner and I always wanted =0A =
to strip out of Vapor Trail but never did because of the =0A =
spirit of the "as-built" statement in the PHRF rules, that =
=0A combined with never wanting to hear any excuses=A0fr=
om =0A the cutthroat SOBs we raced against up here.=0A =
=A0=0A Here is=A0the excerpt from PHRF=
NE.org:=0A =0A "It is the intention o=
f PHRF-NE to handicap boats in an =0A as-built configura=
tion. PHRF-NE will adjust the handicaps of =0A boats tha=
t have been altered from the as- built =0A configuration=
to completely compensate for any expected =0A speed adv=
antage. Variations must be reported to the Chief =0A Han=
dicapper so that the Fleet can be more accurately =0A ha=
ndicapped."
=0A On Thu, Oct =0A 28, 2010 at 6:33 =
AM, Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net> =0A wrote:
=0A =0A =0A Oo=
ps - sorry I =0A mis-spoke.=A0 The water heater is onl=
y 15 lbs. It's =0A spelled out in the rules.=0A =
=A0=0A Art=0A =A0=
=0A =A0=0A =0A =
----- Original Message =0A ----- =0A =
From: =0A Arthur Kelley =0A =
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com =0A =0A=
Sent: Wednesday, =0A October=
27, 2010 8:27 PM=0A Subject: Re: =0A =
[frers-list]Origo stove and oven=0A =20
=0A Frank,=0A =20
=0A The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposit=
e =0A side of the bulkhead of the ice box. I sure we=
would =0A figure out something if you came to a one=
design event. =0A We definitely want an inclusive f=
leet but want to =0A protect all owners against some=
one who just wants to =0A beat the rules. If you rac=
e only PHRF then the one =0A design prescriptions go=
out the window. However to =0A maintain resale and =
protect the future owner if they =0A want to do one =
design we suggest keeping changes modest =0A and rev=
ersable.=A0=0A =20
=0A =20
Art Kelley=0A =20
On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT =0A <fxa=
lbert@prodigy.net> =0A wrote:
=0A =0A =0A =
=0A =0A =0A =
=0A =0A =
=A0=0A I think Arthur hits =
the spirt of the rule =0A along with the let=
ter of it.=A0 However, on =0A my boat I not =
only didn't get the water heater, =0A I don'=
t even have the shelf he's talking about =0A =
so yikes what kind of weight would I be =0A =
adding.=A0 Anyone know what the water heater =0A =
weighs?=A0 =0A =A0=0A =
Looks like I may not truck the boat up to =0A =
Newport anytime soon.=0A =
=A0=0A Frank Albert=0A =
=A0=0A --- On Wed, 10/27/10, Arthu=
r Kelley =0A <akelley@optonline.net> =0A =
wrote:
=0A =20
From: =0A Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.n=
et>
Subject: =0A Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and=
oven
To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" =0A <frer=
s-list@lists.frers33.com>
Date: =0A Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 =
PM
=0A =0A =0A =
Looking at the rules as spelled out in the =
=0A Word doc on the site:=0A =
=20
=0A =0A 5.If =
=0A the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel ta=
nk (40 =0A lbs, @1/4 full) or oven (40 lbs e=
xcluding two =0A burner stove top) have been=
permanently moved, =0A removed, or not obta=
ined when the boat was =0A built, a weight e=
qual to the item shall be =0A affixed in its=
intended location during all =0A racing eve=
nts.=0A =20
=0A A few important principles come =0A =
out.=A0=0A 1. It =
does not allow that the stove can be =0A rem=
oved, only the oven. We can discuss how to =0A =
handle a missing stove in another thread if =0A =
necessary.=A0=0A 2. The oven is assum=
ed to be replaceable =0A with 40 lbs of weig=
ht.=A0=0A 3. Substituted weight must be affi=
xed in =0A the intended location.=A0=0A =
4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel =0A =
tank?=0A =20
=0A #3 means that hot water heater substitut=
e =0A weight for example, cannot be consolid=
ated to =0A the bilge, but must be in the la=
zarette on the =0A shelf where the heater wo=
uld have been. With =0A regards to the oven =
I suspect it is generally =0A agreed that th=
e weight can be placed in the =0A space belo=
w the stove not necessarily bolted to =0A th=
e bottom of the stove. However it should be =0A =
noted that safety, not only the letter of the =0A =
rules suggest (require?) that the weights be =0A =
affixed so that in the event of a knock down =0A =
that they do not become life threatening =0A =
projectiles.=A0=0A =20
=0A We need to be mindful that the one desig=
n =0A rules are designed to ensure that an o=
wner who =0A cruises the boat can remain com=
petitive with =0A another boat which is used=
exclusively for =0A racing. It is not desig=
ned to be a strategy for =0A removing a bunc=
h of distributed weight and =0A consolidatin=
g it centerline below the =0A waterline.=A0=
=0A =20
=0A Thoughts?=0A =
=20
Art Kelley=0A =20
On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal =0A Melans=
on <neal.melanson@gmail.com> =0A wrote:
=0A =0A =0A =
=0A ...lets al=
l check the Class rules before we =0A start =
on any weight saving programs.=A0 I =0A star=
ted a fire storm years ago over PBO =0A Back=
stays and Carbon Fibre Rudders.=0A =A0=0A =
=A0=0A =A0=0A =
=A0=0A =A0=0A =
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod =0A =
Stright <StrightR@eastlink.ca> =0A =
wrote:
=0A =0A =0A =
=0A Anyone =0A=
interested in purchasing an Origo stove and=
oven =0A for the Frers 33, like new conditi=
on seldom =0A used.=A0 Intend to replace wit=
h an Origo two =0A burner stove, would consi=
der a =0A trade.=0A =
=A0=0A Rod=0A =
Equinox=0A 902-444-0016
=0A =20
=0A=0A=0A=0A
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;">Hi Tom, <div><br></div><div>If you'd be =
interested I am sure Jack would put your sail order in with ours. The more =
we get the better and we were right on the edge for the tenth sail we neede=
d. Let me know and I'll talk to Jack. If you have a different sales guy alr=
eady, it's not a problem--he will get the proper commission.<div><div><br><=
/div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Dave<br><br>--- On <b>Fri, 10/2=
9/10, Bruton, Tom (GECAS) <i><Tom.Bruton@gecas.com></i></b> wrote:<br=
><blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left:=
5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Bruton, Tom (GECAS) <Tom.Bruton@geca=
s.com><br>Subject: RE: [frers-list] keeping the boat flat<br>To: frers-l=
ist@lists.frers33.com<br>Date: Friday, October 29, 2010, 2:11 PM<br><br><di=
v id=3D"yiv538405042">=0A=0A =0A =0A =0A<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><sp=
an class=3D"yiv538405042626570918-29102010"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D=
"2" face=3D"Arial">In Connecticut Art, so I think I =0Aqualify.</font></spa=
n></div><br>=0A<div dir=3D"ltr" lang=3D"en-us" class=3D"yiv538405042Outlook=
MessageHeader" align=3D"left">=0A<hr tabindex=3D"-1">=0A<font size=3D"2" fa=
ce=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =0A[mailto:fr=
ers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Arthur =0AKelley<br><=
b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 29, 2010 1:42 PM<br><b>To:</b> =0Afrers-list@li=
sts.frers33.com<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [frers-list] keeping the =0Aboat fla=
t<br></font><br></div>=0A<div></div>=0A<div>If you are in the NE region we =
can talk to our sales team and see if they =0Awill accept. Heck, a Frers is=
a Frers, and a sail is a sail!<br><br>Art =0AKelley</div>=0A<div><br>On Oc=
t 29, 2010, at 10:47 AM, "Bruton, Tom (GECAS)" <<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymai=
lto=3D"mailto:Tom.Bruton@gecas.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?t=
o=3DTom.Bruton@gecas.com">Tom.Bruton@gecas.com</a>> =0Awrote:<br><br></d=
iv>=0A<div></div>=0A<blockquote type=3D"cite">=0A <div>=0A <div><font col=
or=3D"navy" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Happily paid if I can get a sails dea=
l =0A like the one you've negotiated!<br>Tom</font></div><br>=0A <div>=0A=
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" align=3D"center" size=3D"2" width=3D"100%">=0A <font=
size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From</b>: <a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mai=
lto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compo=
se?to=3Dfrers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com">frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.=
com</a> =0A <<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:frers-list-admin@lis=
ts.frers33.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list-admin=
@lists.frers33.com">frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com</a>> =0A <br><b>=
To</b>: <a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"=
target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com">f=
rers-list@lists.frers33.com</a> =0A <<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mai=
lto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=
=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a>> =0A =
<br><b>Sent</b>: Fri Oct 29 10:31:32 2010<br><b>Subject</b>: Re: [frers-lis=
t] =0A keeping the boat flat <br></font><br></div>=0A <div style=3D"FONT-=
FAMILY:tahoma, new york, times, serif;FONT-SIZE:10pt;">=0A <div>Chuckle.&n=
bsp; You know that Tom can't see the twinkle in you eye or the =0A tongue =
in your cheek........<br></div>=0A <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:tahoma, new y=
ork, times, serif;FONT-SIZE:10pt;"><br>=0A <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:times=
new roman, new york, times, serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt;"><font size=3D"2" face=
=3D"Tahoma">=0A <hr size=3D"1">=0A <b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">F=
rom:</span></b> David Nauber <<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:dnau=
ber@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Ddnauber@yahoo.com=
">dnauber@yahoo.com</a>><br><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">To:</sp=
an></b> <a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"=
target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com"><=
/a><a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-=
list@lists.frers33.com</a><br><b><span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Sent:</s=
pan></b> Thu, October 28, 2010 2:42:50 =0A PM<br><b><span style=3D"FONT-WE=
IGHT:bold;">Subject:</span></b> RE: [frers-list] =0A keeping the boat flat=
<br></font><br>=0A <table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0"=
>=0A <tbody>=0A <tr>=0A <td valign=3D"top">Welcome Tom, =0A =
<div><br></div>=0A <div>Just be aware that class association dues=
for the rich guys with =0A the bigger boats are MUCH higher.</div>=
=0A <div><br></div>=0A <div>Regards,</div>=0A <div><br=
></div>=0A <div>Dave Nauber</div>=0A <div>Wolverine<br><br>--=
- On <b>Thu, 10/28/10, Bruton, Tom (GECAS) =0A <i><<a rel=3D"nofo=
llow" ymailto=3D"mailto:Tom.Bruton@gecas.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc=
/compose?to=3DTom.Bruton@gecas.com">Tom.Bruton@gecas.com</a>></i></b> =
=0A wrote:<br>=0A <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:rgb(16,16,=
255) 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;"><br>From: =0A Br=
uton, Tom (GECAS) <<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:Tom.Bruton@geca=
s.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3DTom.Bruton@gecas.com">Tom=
.Bruton@gecas.com</a>><br>Subject: =0A RE: [frers-list] keeping=
the boat flat<br>To: <a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:frers-list@list=
s.frers33.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.=
frers33.com"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.fre=
rs33.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers=
33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a><br>Date: =0A Thursday, Oc=
tober 28, 2010, 10:20 AM<br><br>=0A <div id=3D"yiv538405042yiv1110=
194753">=0A <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"yiv5384=
05042yiv1110194753556390914-28102010"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" fa=
ce=3D"Arial">Gentlemen,</font></span></div>=0A <div dir=3D"ltr" al=
ign=3D"left"><span class=3D"yiv538405042yiv1110194753556390914-28102010"><f=
ont color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font></span> </div>=
=0A <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"yiv538405042yiv=
1110194753556390914-28102010"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Ar=
ial">There is a spy amongst you. I recently bought a Frers 36, =0A =
(a slightly older, slightly bigger and more IOR orientated version of =0A =
your own boats), and came across your email group during a "Frers"=
=0A websearch and immediately signed up. Although all this talk o=
f =0A one-design details, and custom sail deals does not appl=
y to me, =0A the discussion on bulkhead separations was informativ=
e, and I have =0A enjoyed all your banter and feel somewhat l=
ike a close cousin. =0A Just wanted to announce myself, and if you=
don't mind continue =0A to enjoy your comments.</font></span=
></div>=0A <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"yiv53840=
5042yiv1110194753556390914-28102010"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" fac=
e=3D"Arial">Best Regards</font></span></div>=0A <div dir=3D"ltr" a=
lign=3D"left"><span class=3D"yiv538405042yiv1110194753556390914-28102010"><=
font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Tom Bruton</font></span></=
div>=0A <div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"yiv53840504=
2yiv1110194753556390914-28102010"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=
=3D"Arial">"Mystique" </font></span></div><br>=0A <div =
dir=3D"ltr" lang=3D"en-us" class=3D"yiv538405042yiv1110194753OutlookMessage=
Header" align=3D"left">=0A <hr tabindex=3D"-1">=0A <font =
size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> <a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mail=
to:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compos=
e?to=3Dfrers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com">frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.c=
om</a> =0A [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] <b>On Behal=
f Of </b>Scott =0A Marino<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 28, 20=
10 10:03 =0A AM<br><b>To:</b> <a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailt=
o:frers-list@lists.frers33.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3D=
frers-list@lists.frers33.com"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:fre=
rs-list@lists.frers33.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers=
-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a><br><b>Subject:</b=
> =0A Re: [frers-list] keeping the boat flat<br></font><br></div>=
=0A <div></div>=0A <table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" =
cellpadding=3D"0">=0A <tbody>=0A <tr>=0A =
<td valign=3D"top">=0A <div>All this talk of stoves and wei=
ghts is interesting but what =0A I really want to know is:&n=
bsp; </div>=0A <div> </div>=0A <div>When=
going up wind in 20 to 25 kts do you find it best to =0A us=
e the #3 with full main or reef the main and carry a bigger =0A =
headsail? In the tug of war between a flat boat and a boat =0A =
that points as high as possible, which is better?</div>=0A =
<div> </div>=0A <div>Has anyone ever used a=
#4?</div>=0A <div> </div>=0A <div><br><=
br>--- On <b>Thu, 10/28/10, Arthur Kelley <i><<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailt=
o=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=
=3Dakelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</a>></i></b> =0A =
wrote:<br></div>=0A <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT=
:rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;"><br>From: =0A =
Arthur Kelley <<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:ak=
elley@optonline.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@opt=
online.net">akelley@optonline.net</a>><br>Subject: =0A =
Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven<br>To: "<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D=
"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose=
?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a>" =0A =
<<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.=
frers33.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.fr=
ers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a>><br>Date: =0A =
Thursday, October 28, 2010, 8:31 AM<br><br>=0A <div id=
=3D"yiv538405042yiv1110194753yiv740517234">=0A <div>Ah, go=
od point. I stand corrected! Always check =0A with y=
our local authority! Remember we do have a designed base =0A =
Weight of 9000 lbs. I don't know how many have been weighed =0A =
but going below that would be a clear cut PHRF violation as =0A =
well. </div>=0A <div><br>Art Kelley</d=
iv>=0A <div><br>On Oct 28, 2010, at 7:47 AM, Neal Melanson=
<<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yah=
oo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" yma=
ilto=3D"mailto:neal.melanson@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compo=
se?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com">neal.melanson@gmail.com</a>> =0A =
wrote:<br><br></div>=0A <div></div>=0A =
<blockquote type=3D"cite">=0A <div>=0A =
<div>"If you race only PHRF then the one design =0A =
prescriptions go out the window. " - Art Kelley</div>=0A =
<div> </div>=0A <div>I have to clarify that=
even PHRF =0A discourages modifications. The=
re are serveral =0A hundred pounds the previous own=
er and I always wanted =0A to strip out of Vapor Trail b=
ut never did because of the =0A spirit of the "as-built"=
statement in the PHRF rules, that =0A combined with nev=
er wanting to hear any excuses from =0A the cutthro=
at SOBs we raced against up here.</div>=0A <div> </=
div>=0A <div>Here is the excerpt from <a rel=3D"nof=
ollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://phrfne.org/"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow=
" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://PHRFNE.org">PHRFNE.org</a>:</div>=0A =
<div>=0A <div>"It is the intention of PH=
RF-NE to handicap boats in an =0A as-built configuration=
. PHRF-NE will adjust the handicaps of =0A boats that ha=
ve been altered from the as- built =0A configuration to =
completely compensate for any expected =0A speed advanta=
ge. Variations must be reported to the Chief =0A Handica=
pper so that the Fleet can be more accurately =0A handic=
apped."<br></div><br><br></div>=0A <div class=3D"yiv5384=
05042yiv1110194753yiv740517234gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct =0A =
28, 2010 at 6:33 AM, Arthur Kelley <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a rel=3D"nofol=
low" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=
=3Dakelley@optonline.net"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D=
"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net"></a>=
<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</=
a>></span> =0A wrote:<br>=0A <bloc=
kquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING=
-LEFT:1ex;" class=3D"yiv538405042yiv1110194753yiv740517234gmail_quote">=0A =
<div>=0A <div><font size=3D"2" fa=
ce=3D"Arial">Oops - sorry I =0A mis-spoke. The w=
ater heater is only 15 lbs. It's =0A spelled out in th=
e rules.</font></div>=0A <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D=
"Arial"></font> </div>=0A <div><font size=3D"2" f=
ace=3D"Arial">Art</font></div>=0A <div><font size=3D"2=
" face=3D"Arial"></font> </div>=0A <div><font siz=
e=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font> </div>=0A <blockqu=
ote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0=
px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px;" dir=3D"ltr">=0A =
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;">----- Original Message =0A =
----- </div>=0A <div style=3D"FONT:10pt ari=
al;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4;"><b>From:</b> =0A <a rel=3D"n=
ofollow" title=3D"akelley@optonline.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://u=
s.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net">Arthur Kelley=
</a> </div>=0A <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;"><b>To=
:</b> <a rel=3D"nofollow" title=3D"frers-list@lists.frers33.com" target=3D"=
_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@l=
ists.frers33.com"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://=
us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com"></a><=
a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com" target=
=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-li=
st@lists.frers33.com</a> =0A </div>=0A =
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, =0A =
October 27, 2010 8:27 PM</div>=0A =
<div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: =0A =
[frers-list]Origo stove and oven</div>=0A <div><=
br></div>=0A <div>Frank,</div>=0A =
<div><br></div>=0A <div>The weight would be 40 =
lbs and is on the opposite =0A side of the bulkhead =
of the ice box. I sure we would =0A figure out somet=
hing if you came to a one design event. =0A We defin=
itely want an inclusive fleet but want to =0A protec=
t all owners against someone who just wants to =0A b=
eat the rules. If you race only PHRF then the one =0A =
design prescriptions go out the window. However to =0A =
maintain resale and protect the future owner if they =0A =
want to do one design we suggest keeping changes modest =0A =
and reversable. </div>=0A <di=
v><br></div>=0A <div><br>Art Kelley</div>=0A =
<div><br>On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT =0A =
<<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http=
://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfxalbert@prodigy.net"></a><a rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/c=
ompose?to=3Dfxalbert@prodigy.net"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto=
:fxalbert@prodigy.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dfxalbert@=
prodigy.net">fxalbert@prodigy.net</a>> =0A wrote:=
<br><br></div>=0A <div></div>=0A =
<blockquote type=3D"cite">=0A <div>=0A =
<table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">=
=0A <tbody>=0A <tr>=
=0A <td valign=3D"top">=0A =
<div> </div>=0A <div>I thin=
k Arthur hits the spirt of the rule =0A alon=
g with the letter of it. However, on =0A =
my boat I not only didn't get the water heater, =0A =
I don't even have the shelf he's talking about =0A =
so yikes what kind of weight would I be =0A =
adding. Anyone know what the water heater =0A =
weighs? </div>=0A =
<div> </div>=0A <div>Looks like I=
may not truck the boat up to =0A Newport an=
ytime soon.</div>=0A <div> </div>=0A =
<div>Frank Albert</div>=0A =
<div> </div>=0A <div>--- On=
<b>Wed, 10/27/10, Arthur Kelley =0A <i><=
<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.co=
m/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"=
_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@opto=
nline.net"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net"=
target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net">akelley@=
optonline.net</a>></i></b> =0A wrote:<br>=
</div>=0A <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:r=
gb(16,16,255) 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;"><br>From: =0A =
Arthur Kelley <<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=
=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@=
optonline.net"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.=
mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net"></a><a rel=3D"n=
ofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D=
"/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</a>><br>S=
ubject: =0A Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and =
oven<br>To: "<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.=
mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com"></a><a rel=3D"=
nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compo=
se?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"ma=
ilto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=
=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a>" =0A =
<<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=
=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33=
.com"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mai=
l.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com"></a><a rel=3D"nof=
ollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com" target=3D"_blank" hr=
ef=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers=
33.com</a>><br>Date: =0A Wednesday, Octob=
er 27, 2010, 4:32 PM<br><br>=0A <div>=0A =
<div>=0A <div>Lo=
oking at the rules as spelled out in the =0A =
Word doc on the site:</div>=0A <div><br><sp=
an style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:Times;FONT-SIZE:18px;">=0A =
<div style=3D"MARGIN-TOP:0px;MARGIN-BOTTOM:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:54px;">=
=0A <div style=3D"FONT-STYLE:italic;MARGIN-T=
OP:0px;MARGIN-BOTTOM:0px;FONT-SIZE:12px;">5.</div><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGH=
T:18px;FONT-STYLE:italic;FONT-SIZE:18px;">If =0A =
the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel tank (40 =0A =
lbs, @1/4 full) or oven (40 lbs excluding two =0A =
burner stove top) have been permanently moved, =0A =
removed, or not obtained when the boat was =0A =
built, a weight equal to the item shall be =0A =
affixed in its intended location during all =
=0A racing events.</span></div></span>=0A =
<div><br></div>=0A =
<div>A few important principles come =0A =
out. </div>=0A <div>1. It does not all=
ow that the stove can be =0A removed, only t=
he oven. We can discuss how to =0A handle a =
missing stove in another thread if =0A neces=
sary. </div>=0A <div>2. The oven is ass=
umed to be replaceable =0A with 40 lbs of we=
ight. </div>=0A <div>3. Substituted wei=
ght must be affixed in =0A the intended loca=
tion. </div>=0A <div>4. Anyone want to =
pull out their fuel =0A tank?</div>=0A =
<div><br></div>=0A =
<div>#3 means that hot water heater substitute =0A =
weight for example, cannot be consolidated to =0A =
the bilge, but must be in the lazarette on the =0A =
shelf where the heater would have been. With =0A =
regards to the oven I suspect it is generally =0A=
agreed that the weight can be placed in the=
=0A space below the stove not necessarily b=
olted to =0A the bottom of the stove. Howeve=
r it should be =0A noted that safety, not on=
ly the letter of the =0A rules suggest (requ=
ire?) that the weights be =0A affixed so tha=
t in the event of a knock down =0A that they=
do not become life threatening =0A projecti=
les. </div>=0A <div><br></div>=0A =
<div>We need to be mindful that the one design =
=0A rules are designed to ensure that an own=
er who =0A cruises the boat can remain compe=
titive with =0A another boat which is used e=
xclusively for =0A racing. It is not designe=
d to be a strategy for =0A removing a bunch =
of distributed weight and =0A consolidating =
it centerline below the =0A waterline. =
</div>=0A <div><br></div>=0A =
<div>Thoughts?</div>=0A <div=
><br></div>Art Kelley</div>=0A <div><br>On O=
ct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal =0A Melanson &=
lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo=
.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" targe=
t=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.me=
lanson@gmail.com"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://=
us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com"></a><a rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/c=
ompose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mai=
lto:neal.melanson@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"/mc/compose?to=3Dnea=
l.melanson@gmail.com">neal.melanson@gmail.com</a>> =0A =
wrote:<br><br></div>=0A <div><=
/div>=0A <blockquote type=3D"cite">=0A =
<div>=0A <div>...l=
ets all check the Class rules before we =0A =
start on any weight saving programs. I =0A =
started a fire storm years ago over PBO =0A =
Backstays and Carbon Fibre Rudders.</div>=0A =
<div> </div>=0A <div> </div>=
=0A <div> </div>=0A =
<div> </div>=0A <div> =
</div>=0A <div>On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 =
AM, Rod =0A Stright <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a=
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/=
mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_bl=
ank" href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastli=
nk.ca"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc811.ma=
il.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DSt=
rightR@eastlink.ca"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http:=
//us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca"></a><a rel=
=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:StrightR@eastlink.ca" target=3D"_blank" hre=
f=3D"/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca">StrightR@eastlink.ca</a>></s=
pan> =0A wrote:<br></div>=0A =
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex;">=0A <div la=
ng=3D"EN-CA">=0A <div>=0A =
<div><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'serif';COLOR:#002060;FONT-SIZ=
E:12pt;">Anyone =0A interested in purchasing=
an Origo stove and oven =0A for the Frers 3=
3, like new condition seldom =0A used. =
Intend to replace with an Origo two =0A bur=
ner stove, would consider a =0A trade.</span=
></div></div>=0A <div><span style=3D"FONT-FA=
MILY:'serif';COLOR:#002060;FONT-SIZE:12pt;"></span> </div></div>=0A =
<div><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'serif';COLOR:=
#002060;FONT-SIZE:12pt;">Rod</span></div></blockquote></div>=0A =
<div><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'serif';COLOR:#002060;F=
ONT-SIZE:12pt;">Equinox</span></div></blockquote></div>=0A =
<div><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'serif';COLOR:#002060;FONT-S=
IZE:12pt;">902-444-0016</span></div></div></blockquote><br>=0A =
<div></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div></blockquote>=
</blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br></div></blockquote></div></blockq=
uote></td></tr></tbody></table><br></div></blockquote></div></td></tr></tbo=
dy></table><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote> =0A</div></blockquote>=
</div></div></div></td></tr></table><br>=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
--0-1194946402-1288386278=:16220--