From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Sat Aug 2 21:48:50 2014 From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Rod Stright) Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2014 17:48:50 -0300 Subject: [frers-list]Bow Attachment for an A Kite Message-ID: <002a01cfae93$29f4d350$7dde79f0$@eastlink.ca> This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01CFAE7A.04A921F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Guys, Just acquired an A kite for Equinox and was wondering if anyone has come up with an arrangement for securing the tack forward of the head stay. There is no bow roller or fitting forward of the headstay to work with on Equinox. Regards Rod Equinox ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01CFAE7A.04A921F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Guys,

 <= /p>

Just = acquired an A kite for Equinox and was wondering if anyone has come up = with an arrangement for securing the tack forward of the head = stay.  There is no bow roller or fitting forward of the headstay to = work with on Equinox.

 <= /p>

Regards=

Rod

=

Equinox=

 <= /p>

 

------=_NextPart_000_002B_01CFAE7A.04A921F0-- From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Sun Aug 3 06:29:51 2014 From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Bottaro, Donald (NIH/NCI) [E]) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2014 05:29:51 +0000 Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #780 - 1 msg In-Reply-To: <20140803050202.D1C4161AED@mailman.siteprotect.com> References: <20140803050202.D1C4161AED@mailman.siteprotect.com> Message-ID: <7A23CB30-6A84-4BEE-A43C-A6CFD6E20BE3@nih.gov> I engineered something you might find interesting but not race legal. I can= elaborate if you wish Don Bottaro Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 3, 2014, at 1:02, "frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com" wrote: >=20 > Send frers-list mailing list submissions to > frers-list@lists.frers33.com >=20 > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com >=20 > You can reach the person managing the list at > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com >=20 > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..." >=20 >=20 > Today's Topics: >=20 > 1. Bow Attachment for an A Kite (Rod Stright) >=20 > --__--__-- >=20 > Message: 1 > From: Rod Stright > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com > Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2014 17:48:50 -0300 > Subject: [frers-list]Bow Attachment for an A Kite > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com >=20 > This is a multipart message in MIME format. >=20 > ------=3D_NextPart_000_002B_01CFAE7A.04A921F0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=3D"us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >=20 > Hi Guys, >=20 >=20 >=20 > Just acquired an A kite for Equinox and was wondering if anyone has come = up > with an arrangement for securing the tack forward of the head stay. Ther= e > is no bow roller or fitting forward of the headstay to work with on Equin= ox. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Regards >=20 > Rod >=20 > Equinox >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ------=3D_NextPart_000_002B_01CFAE7A.04A921F0 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset=3D"us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >=20 > xmlns:o=3D3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" =3D > xmlns:w=3D3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =3D > xmlns:m=3D3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" =3D > xmlns=3D3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D > charset=3D3Dus-ascii"> (filtered medium)"> link=3D3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D3D"#954F72">

class=3D3DMsoNormal> style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060'>Hi =3D > Guys,

color=3D3D"#002060" face=3D3DCalibri> style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060'> <=3D > /p>

face=3D3DCalibri>Just = =3D > acquired an A kite for Equinox and was wondering if anyone has come up = =3D > with an arrangement for securing the tack forward of the head =3D > stay.  There is no bow roller or fitting forward of the headstay to = =3D > work with on Equinox.

class=3D3DMsoNormal> style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060'> <=3D > /p>

face=3D3DCalibri> style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060'>Regards=3D >

face=3D3DCalibri> style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060'>Rod=3D >

face=3D3DCalibri> style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060'>Equinox=3D >

face=3D3DCalibri> style=3D3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#002060'> <=3D > /p>

style=3D3D'font-size:11.0pt'> 

y> > ------=3D_NextPart_000_002B_01CFAE7A.04A921F0-- >=20 >=20 >=20 > --__--__-- >=20 > _______________________________________________ > frers-list mailing list > frers-list@lists.frers33.com > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list >=20 >=20 > End of frers-list Digest From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Tue Aug 26 13:43:34 2014 From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Hoyt, Mike) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 09:43:34 -0300 Subject: [frers-list]adjusting to a cruiser ... Message-ID: <4CDEBB6B0F16C541BA8F985B72705D5419BFF7AF@hfxexc02.impgroup.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CFC12B.596EAADF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Have now had Persistence for 2 months. Still feel like we have not sailed it. =20 We are coming from a series of smaller tiller driven boats with fractional main driven rigs culminating with a J27. =20 Perhaps it is that I am very distracted by the Winnebago aspects of the boat. Loving having an interior and a separate head and especially loving the 3GM30 diesel. However even after a 400 NM delivery and numerous day trips I am finding we have not sailed the boat and I find some things about the way it is rigged quite confusing and awkard. =20 On the J27 and even on C&C99 and C&C 115 the traveler is at aft of cockpit just forward of wheel (on wheel boats) and easily accessed by driver on the tiller boats. Backstay, traveler, sheet all at this location. On the Frers the traveler is forward of the jib trimmer position which just seems odd. I am confused why anyone would put it there. My best guess is that when sailing with a crew the main trimmer is on high side and the jib trimmer sets the jib on low side and then gets up on the rail, Is this correct? =20 The jib controls are a bit different as well. On the J27 the genoa car adjusters are forward of the primaries so that the trimmer can look at the genoa while adjusting the cars. The controls are positioned exactly where the pole down cam cleats are on the Frers. I am tempted to set up using these cam cleats same as J27 as it works better and route the pole downhaul to a cabintop clutch beside the pole uphaul. =20 I am thinking the adjustments we are having are a bit awkward because we are spending some time cruising and/or have guests aboard too frequently to allow us to really sail the boat. On top of that I am very infatuated with a large diesel and wheel so tempted to motor more often than in past. Hopefully with the cooler Fall weather the tourists are less interested and the sailors will come out and we will actually sail and race the boat =20 Sorry for the rambling email. Almost feel like I need to sit forward of the wheel to drive so that can access the sail controls. =20 =20 Later =20 Mike =20 Persistence ------_=_NextPart_001_01CFC12B.596EAADF Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Have now had Persistence for 2 months.  Still feel like we have = not sailed it.

 

We are coming from a series of smaller tiller driven boats with = fractional main driven rigs culminating with a = J27.

 

Perhaps it is that I am very distracted by the Winnebago aspects of = the boat.  Loving having an interior and a separate head and = especially loving the 3GM30 diesel.  However even after a 400 NM = delivery and numerous day trips I am finding we have not sailed the boat = and I find some things about the way it is rigged quite confusing and = awkard.

 

On the J27 and even on C&C99 and C&C 115 the traveler is at = aft of cockpit just forward of wheel (on wheel boats) and easily = accessed by driver on the tiller boats.  Backstay, traveler, sheet = all at this location.  On the Frers the traveler is forward of the = jib trimmer position which just seems odd.  I am confused why = anyone would put it there.  My best guess is that when sailing with = a crew the main trimmer is on high side and the jib trimmer sets the jib = on low side and then gets up on the rail,  Is this = correct?

 

The jib controls are a bit different as well.  On the J27 the = genoa car adjusters are forward of the primaries so that the trimmer can = look at the genoa while adjusting the cars.  The controls are = positioned exactly where the pole down cam cleats are on the = Frers.  I am tempted to set up using these cam cleats same as J27 = as it works better and route the pole downhaul to a cabintop clutch = beside the pole uphaul.

 

I am thinking the adjustments we are having are a bit awkward because = we are spending some time cruising and/or have guests aboard too = frequently to allow us to really sail the boat.  On top of that I = am very infatuated with a large diesel and wheel so tempted to motor = more often than in past.  Hopefully with the cooler Fall weather = the tourists are less interested and the sailors will come out and we = will actually sail and race the boat

 

Sorry for the rambling email.  Almost feel like I need to sit = forward of the wheel to drive so that can access the sail = controls. 

 

Later

 

Mike

 

Persistence

------_=_NextPart_001_01CFC12B.596EAADF-- From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Tue Aug 26 14:04:38 2014 From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (David Nauber) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 06:04:38 -0700 Subject: [frers-list]adjusting to a cruiser ... In-Reply-To: <4CDEBB6B0F16C541BA8F985B72705D5419BFF7AF@hfxexc02.impgroup.com> References: <4CDEBB6B0F16C541BA8F985B72705D5419BFF7AF@hfxexc02.impgroup.com> Message-ID: <1409058278.65758.YahooMailNeo@web126102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> --1923879097-1968984097-1409058278=:65758 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mike,=0A=0AThe traveler is where it is because the boat was available wi= th either a tiller or a wheel. When fitted with a tiller, there isn't enoug= h room in the cockpit to put the traveler behind the jib trimmers. It is a = big tiller, so it takes up all the room there is behind the jib trimmers. T= here just isn't room for a main trimmer to fit there. I used to have a smal= ler boat (Wavelength 24) with the traveler just forward of the helm and it = was designed so the helmsman trimmed main while racing, like an Etchells or= many other small boats. In a racing situation, you would not want to trim = main and drive on the Frers anyway. Unless you're single-handing, I don't s= ee a problem with its location and even then, you can at least rig the trav= eler to be accessible from the helm as Scott Marino has done on Risoluto.= =A0=0A=0AI'm not sure how you're boat is rigged but on Wolverine and all th= e other Frers I've seen the car adjuster is indeed forward of the jib trimm= er. Ours runs to a cam cleat on the side of the cabin top below where the p= ole downhaul/foreguy is cleated. From there you can look at the sail while = adjusting the car, just as you would expect.=0A=0AI know what you're saying= about motoring a lot. When on vacation, we usually leave early in the AM b= efore there's enough breeze to justify hoisting sails, so we motor almost e= verywhere.=A0=0A=0ARegards,=0A=0ADave=0A=0A=0AOn Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8= :44 AM, "Hoyt, Mike" wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AHave now h= ad Persistence for 2 months.=A0 Still feel like we have not sailed it.=0A= =A0=0AWe are coming from a series of smaller tiller driven boats with fract= ional main driven rigs culminating with a J27.=0A=A0=0APerhaps it is that I= am very distracted by the Winnebago aspects of the boat.=A0 Loving having = an interior and a separate head and especially loving the 3GM30 diesel.=A0 = However even after a 400 NM delivery and numerous day trips I am finding we= have not sailed the boat and I find some things about the way it is rigged= quite confusing and awkard.=0A=A0=0AOn the J27 and even on C&C99 and C&C 1= 15 the traveler is at aft of cockpit just forward of wheel (on wheel boats)= and easily accessed by driver on the tiller boats.=A0 Backstay, traveler, = sheet all at this location.=A0 On the Frers the traveler is forward of the = jib trimmer position which just seems odd.=A0 I am confused why anyone woul= d put it there.=A0 My best guess is that when sailing with a crew the main = trimmer is on high side and the jib trimmer sets the jib on low side and th= en gets up on the rail,=A0 Is this correct?=0A=A0=0AThe jib controls are a = bit different as well.=A0 On the J27 the genoa car adjusters are forward of= the primaries so that the trimmer can look at the genoa while adjusting th= e cars.=A0 The controls are positioned exactly where the pole down cam clea= ts are on the Frers.=A0 I am tempted to set up using these cam cleats same = as J27 as it works better and route the pole downhaul to a cabintop clutch = beside the pole uphaul.=0A=A0=0AI am thinking the adjustments we are having= are a bit awkward because we are spending some time cruising and/or have g= uests aboard too frequently to allow us to really sail the boat.=A0 On top = of that I am very infatuated with a large diesel and wheel so tempted to mo= tor more often than in past.=A0 Hopefully with the cooler Fall weather the = tourists are less interested and the sailors will come out and we will actu= ally sail and race the boat=0A=A0=0ASorry for the rambling email.=A0 Almost= feel like I need to sit forward of the wheel to drive so that can access t= he sail controls.=A0 =0A=A0=0ALater=0A=A0=0AMike=0A=A0=0APersistence --1923879097-1968984097-1409058278=:65758 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Mike,

The traveler is where it is because the boat was availab= le with either a tiller or a wheel. When fitted with a tiller, there isn't = enough room in the cockpit to put the traveler behind the jib trimmers. It = is a big tiller, so it takes up all the room there is behind the jib trimme= rs. There just isn't room for a main trimmer to fit there. I used to have a smaller boat (Wavelength 24) with the traveler just forward of the helm = and it was designed so the helmsman trimmed main while racing, like an Etch= ells or many other small boats. In a racing situation, you would not want t= o trim main and drive on the Frers anyway. Unless you're single-handing, I = don't see a problem with its location and even then, you can at least rig t= he traveler to be accessible from the helm as Scott Marino has done on Riso= luto. 

I'm= not sure how you're boat is rigged but on Wolverine and all the other Frers I've seen the car adjuster is indeed forward of the jib trimmer. Our= s runs to a cam cleat on the side of the cabin top below where the pole dow= nhaul/foreguy is cleated. From there you can look at the sail while adjusti= ng the car, just as you would expect.

I know what you're saying about motoring a lot. When= on vacation, we usually leave early in the AM before there's enough breeze= to justify hoisting sails, so we motor almost everywhere. 

=
Regards,<= /div>

=
Dave


On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8:44 AM, "Hoyt, Mike" <Mi= ke.Hoyt@impgroup.com> wrote:


Have now ha= d Persistence for 2 months.  Still feel like we have not sailed it.
 
We are com= ing from a series of smaller tiller driven boats with fractional main drive= n rigs culminating with a J27.
 
Perhaps it is that I am very distracted by the Winnebago aspects of the boat.  Loving ha= ving an interior and a separate head and especially loving the 3GM30 diesel= .  However even after a 400 NM delivery and numerous day trips I am fi= nding we have not sailed the boat and I find some things about the way it i= s rigged quite confusing and awkard.
 
On the J27 and even on C&C99 and C&C 1= 15 the traveler is at aft of cockpit just forward of wheel (on wheel boats)= and easily accessed by driver on the tiller boats.  Backstay, travele= r, sheet all at this location.  On the Frers the traveler is forward o= f the jib trimmer position which just seems odd.  I am confused why anyone would put it there.  My best guess is that when sailing with a= crew the main trimmer is on high side and the jib trimmer sets the jib on = low side and then gets up on the rail,  Is this correct?
<= div class=3D"yiv5139334000MsoNormal">  
<= div class=3D"yiv5139334000MsoNormal">The jib controls are = a bit different as well.  On the J27 the genoa car adjusters are forwa= rd of the primaries so that the trimmer can look at the genoa while adjusti= ng the cars.  The controls are positioned exactly where the pole down = cam cleats are on the Frers.  I am tempted to set up using these cam c= leats same as J27 as it works better and route the pole downhaul to a cabin= top clutch beside the pole uphaul.
 
I am thinking the adjust= ments we are having are a bit awkward because we are spending some time cru= ising and/or have guests aboard too frequently to allow us to really sail t= he boat.  On top of that I am very infatuated with a large diesel and = wheel so tempted to motor more often than in past.  Hopefully with the= cooler Fall weather the tourists are less interested and the sailors will = come out and we will actually sail and race the boat
 
Sorry for the rambling email.  = Almost feel like I need to sit forward of the wheel to drive so that can ac= cess the sail controls. 
 
Later
 
Mike
 
Persistence


--1923879097-1968984097-1409058278=:65758-- From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Tue Aug 26 14:06:58 2014 From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (David Nauber) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 06:06:58 -0700 Subject: [frers-list]adjusting to a cruiser ... In-Reply-To: <1409058278.65758.YahooMailNeo@web126102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <4CDEBB6B0F16C541BA8F985B72705D5419BFF7AF@hfxexc02.impgroup.com> <1409058278.65758.YahooMailNeo@web126102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1409058418.89949.YahooMailNeo@web126106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> --1181703601-403681237-1409058418=:89949 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One more thing...=0A=0AUpwind, I always drive from forward of the wheel. If= necessary when heeled, I put a foot on the pedestal to keep myself in posi= tion. I drive better downwind if I'm standing somewhere behind the wheel. I= just see and feel everything better from there.=0A=0ADN=0A=0A=0AOn , David= Nauber wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AHi Mike,=0A=0AThe traveler i= s where it is because the boat was available with either a tiller or a whee= l. When fitted with a tiller, there isn't enough room in the cockpit to put= the traveler behind the jib trimmers. It is a big tiller, so it takes up a= ll the room there is behind the jib trimmers. There just isn't room for a m= ain trimmer to fit there. I used to have a smaller boat (Wavelength 24) wit= h the traveler just forward of the helm and it was designed so the helmsman= trimmed main while racing, like an Etchells or many other small boats. In = a racing situation, you would not want to trim main and drive on the Frers = anyway. Unless you're single-handing, I don't see a problem with its locati= on and even then, you can at least rig the traveler to be accessible from t= he helm as Scott Marino has done on Risoluto.=A0=0A=0AI'm not sure how you'= re boat is rigged but on Wolverine and all the other Frers I've seen the ca= r adjuster is indeed forward of the jib trimmer. Ours runs to a cam cleat o= n the side of the cabin top below where the pole downhaul/foreguy is cleate= d. From there you can look at the sail while adjusting the car, just as you= would expect.=0A=0AI know what you're saying about motoring a lot. When on= vacation, we usually leave early in the AM before there's enough breeze to= justify hoisting sails, so we motor almost everywhere.=A0=0A=0ARegards,=0A= =0ADave=0A=0A=0AOn Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8:44 AM, "Hoyt, Mike" wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AHave now had Persistence for 2 months.= =A0 Still feel like we have not sailed it.=0A=A0=0AWe are coming from a ser= ies of smaller tiller driven boats with fractional main driven rigs culmina= ting with a J27.=0A=A0=0APerhaps it is that I am very distracted by the Win= nebago aspects of the boat.=A0 Loving having an interior and a separate hea= d and especially loving the 3GM30 diesel.=A0 However even after a 400 NM de= livery and numerous day trips I am finding we have not sailed the boat and = I find some things about the way it is rigged quite confusing and awkard.= =0A=A0=0AOn the J27 and even on C&C99 and C&C 115 the traveler is at aft of= cockpit just forward of wheel (on wheel boats) and easily accessed by driv= er on the tiller boats.=A0 Backstay, traveler, sheet all at this location.= =A0 On the Frers the traveler is forward of the jib trimmer position which = just seems odd.=A0 I am confused why anyone would put it there.=A0 My best = guess is that when sailing with a crew the main trimmer is on high side and= the jib trimmer sets the jib on low side and then gets up on the rail,=A0 = Is this correct?=0A=A0=0AThe jib controls are a bit different as well.=A0 O= n the J27 the genoa car adjusters are forward of the primaries so that the = trimmer can look at the genoa while adjusting the cars.=A0 The controls are= positioned exactly where the pole down cam cleats are on the Frers.=A0 I a= m tempted to set up using these cam cleats same as J27 as it works better a= nd route the pole downhaul to a cabintop clutch beside the pole uphaul.=0A= =A0=0AI am thinking the adjustments we are having are a bit awkward because= we are spending some time cruising and/or have guests aboard too frequentl= y to allow us to really sail the boat.=A0 On top of that I am very infatuat= ed with a large diesel and wheel so tempted to motor more often than in pas= t.=A0 Hopefully with the cooler Fall weather the tourists are less interest= ed and the sailors will come out and we will actually sail and race the boa= t=0A=A0=0ASorry for the rambling email.=A0 Almost feel like I need to sit f= orward of the wheel to drive so that can access the sail controls.=A0 =0A= =A0=0ALater=0A=A0=0AMike=0A=A0=0APersistence --1181703601-403681237-1409058418=:89949 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One more thing...

Upwind, I always drive from forward of the wheel. If = necessary when heeled, I put a foot on the pedestal to keep myself in posit= ion. I drive better downwind if I'm standing somewhere behind the wheel. I = just see and feel everything better from there.

DN


On , David Nauber <dnauber@ya= hoo.com> wrote:


Hi Mike,<= /span>

The traveler is where it is because the boat was available with either a t= iller or a wheel. When fitted with a tiller, there isn't enough room in the= cockpit to put the traveler behind the jib trimmers. It is a big tiller, s= o it takes up all the room there is behind the jib trimmers. There just isn= 't room for a main trimmer to fit there. I used to have=0A a smaller boat (= Wavelength 24) with the traveler just forward of the helm and it was design= ed so the helmsman trimmed main while racing, like an Etchells or many othe= r small boats. In a racing situation, you would not want to trim main and d= rive on the Frers anyway. Unless you're single-handing, I don't see a probl= em with its location and even then, you can at least rig the traveler to be= accessible from the helm as Scott Marino has done on Risoluto. 

I'm n= ot sure how you're boat is rigged but on Wolverine and all the other=0A Frers I've seen the car adjuster is indeed forward of the= jib trimmer. Ours runs to a cam cleat on the side of the cabin top below w= here the pole downhaul/foreguy is cleated. From there you can look at the s= ail while adjusting the car, just as you would expect.

I know what you're s= aying about motoring a lot. When on vacation, we usually leave early in the= AM before there's enough breeze to justify hoisting sails, so we motor alm= ost everywhere. 

Regards,

Dave


On Tuesday, = August 26, 2014 8:44 AM, "Hoyt, Mike" <Mike.Hoyt@impgroup.com> wrote:=


=
#yiv2843767694 #yiv2843767694 --=0A =0A filtered {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 = 6 3 2 4;}=0A#yiv2843767694 filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2= 2 2 4 3 2 4;}=0A#yiv2843767694 filtered {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11= 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}=0A#yiv2843767694 =0A p.yiv2843767694MsoNormal, #yiv284= 3767694 li.yiv2843767694MsoNormal, #yiv2843767694 div.yiv2843767694MsoNor= mal=0A=09{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}=0A#yiv2843767= 694 a:link, #yiv2843767694 span.yiv2843767694MsoHyperlink=0A=09{color:blu= e;text-decoration:underline;}=0A#yiv2843767694 a:visited, #yiv2843767694 = span.yiv2843767694MsoHyperlinkFollowed=0A=09{color:purple;text-decoration:u= nderline;}=0A#yiv2843767694 p=0A=09{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-= size:12.0pt;}=0A#yiv2843767694 p.yiv2843767694MsoAcetate, #yiv2843767694 = li.yiv2843767694MsoAcetate, #yiv2843767694 div.yiv2843767694MsoAcetate=0A= =09{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}=0A#yiv2843767694 sp= an.yiv2843767694BalloonTextChar=0A=09{}=0A#yiv2843767694 span.yiv284376769= 4EmailStyle20=0A=09{color:#1F497D;}=0A#yiv2843767694 span.yiv2843767694Ema= ilStyle21=0A=09{color:#1F497D;}=0A#yiv2843767694 span.yiv2843767694EmailSt= yle22=0A=09{color:#1F497D;}=0A#yiv2843767694 .yiv2843767694MsoChpDefault= =0A=09{font-size:10.0pt;}=0A#yiv2843767694 filtered {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.= 0in 1.0in;}=0A#yiv2843767694 div.yiv2843767694WordSection1=0A=09{}=0A#yiv2= 843767694
Have now had Persistence for 2= months.  Still feel like we have not sailed it.
 
We are coming from a series o= f smaller tiller driven boats with fractional main driven rigs culminating = with a J27.
 
Perhaps it is that=0A I am very distracted by the Winnebago aspects of the boat.&n= bsp; Loving having an interior and a separate head and especially loving th= e 3GM30 diesel.  However even after a 400 NM delivery and numerous day= trips I am finding we have not sailed the boat and I find some things abou= t the way it is rigged quite confusing and awkard.
 
On the J27 and even on C&C= 99 and C&C 115 the traveler is at aft of cockpit just forward of wheel = (on wheel boats) and easily accessed by driver on the tiller boats.  B= ackstay, traveler, sheet all at this location.  On the Frers the trave= ler is forward of the jib trimmer position which just seems odd.  I am= confused why=0A anyone would put it there.  My best guess is that whe= n sailing with a crew the main trimmer is on high side and the jib trimmer = sets the jib on low side and then gets up on the rail,  Is this correc= t?
&nbs= p;
The j= ib controls are a bit different as well.  On the J27 the genoa car adj= usters are forward of the primaries so that the trimmer can look at the gen= oa while adjusting the cars.  The controls are positioned exactly wher= e the pole down cam cleats are on the Frers.  I am tempted to set up u= sing these cam cleats same as J27 as it works better and route the pole dow= nhaul to a cabintop clutch beside the pole uphaul.
 
I am thinking the adjust= ments we are having are a bit awkward because we are spending some time cru= ising and/or have guests aboard too frequently to allow us to really sail t= he boat.  On top of that I am very infatuated with a large diesel and = wheel so tempted to motor more often than in past.  Hopefully with the= cooler Fall weather the tourists are less interested and the sailors will = come out and we will actually sail and race the boat
 
Sorry for the rambling email.  = Almost feel like I need to sit forward of the wheel to drive so that can ac= cess the sail controls. 
 
Later
 
Mike
 
Persistence


=
--1181703601-403681237-1409058418=:89949-- From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Tue Aug 26 14:32:48 2014 From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Hoyt, Mike) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 10:32:48 -0300 Subject: [frers-list]adjusting to a cruiser ... In-Reply-To: <1409058418.89949.YahooMailNeo@web126106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <4CDEBB6B0F16C541BA8F985B72705D5419BFF7AF@hfxexc02.impgroup.com> <1409058278.65758.YahooMailNeo@web126102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1409058418.89949.YahooMailNeo@web126106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CDEBB6B0F16C541BA8F985B72705D5419BFF7FC@hfxexc02.impgroup.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CFC132.3A1374FB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Dave =20 Interesting about the car adjuster position. On Persistence the primaries were moved to cabin top and #43 electric winches installed aft end of winch pad for single handing/cruising. We have since purchased Lewmar 30ST for cabin top and are moving the #43 from cabin top back to forward end of winch pad. The car adjusters are back at end of winch pad by the electric winches. Note that C&C99 has them there as well and I find it a dumb place for them while racing ... and awkward =20 My normal position when racing is on main - mostly on a C&C 115 and also on our J27. When short on crew on J27 or just sailing would often do helm and main. Will seem different to move further forward but is a small cockpit so expect will not really be an issue - except when bumping into jib trimmers ocassionally. =20 Is a very different boat than the 27. Seems to be a lot more jib driven with much larger loads on jib sheets etc ... Looking fwd to actually racing it a bit. Love the fact that we can also stay aboard when not racing =20 Mike =20 From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of David Nauber Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 10:07 AM To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com Subject: Re: [frers-list]adjusting to a cruiser ... =20 One more thing... =20 Upwind, I always drive from forward of the wheel. If necessary when heeled, I put a foot on the pedestal to keep myself in position. I drive better downwind if I'm standing somewhere behind the wheel. I just see and feel everything better from there. =20 DN =20 On , David Nauber wrote: =20 Hi Mike, =20 The traveler is where it is because the boat was available with either a tiller or a wheel. When fitted with a tiller, there isn't enough room in the cockpit to put the traveler behind the jib trimmers. It is a big tiller, so it takes up all the room there is behind the jib trimmers. There just isn't room for a main trimmer to fit there. I used to have a smaller boat (Wavelength 24) with the traveler just forward of the helm and it was designed so the helmsman trimmed main while racing, like an Etchells or many other small boats. In a racing situation, you would not want to trim main and drive on the Frers anyway. Unless you're single-handing, I don't see a problem with its location and even then, you can at least rig the traveler to be accessible from the helm as Scott Marino has done on Risoluto.=20 =20 I'm not sure how you're boat is rigged but on Wolverine and all the other Frers I've seen the car adjuster is indeed forward of the jib trimmer. Ours runs to a cam cleat on the side of the cabin top below where the pole downhaul/foreguy is cleated. From there you can look at the sail while adjusting the car, just as you would expect. =20 I know what you're saying about motoring a lot. When on vacation, we usually leave early in the AM before there's enough breeze to justify hoisting sails, so we motor almost everywhere.=20 =20 Regards, =20 Dave =20 On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8:44 AM, "Hoyt, Mike" wrote: =20 Have now had Persistence for 2 months. Still feel like we have not sailed it. =20 We are coming from a series of smaller tiller driven boats with fractional main driven rigs culminating with a J27. =20 Perhaps it is that I am very distracted by the Winnebago aspects of the boat. Loving having an interior and a separate head and especially loving the 3GM30 diesel. However even after a 400 NM delivery and numerous day trips I am finding we have not sailed the boat and I find some things about the way it is rigged quite confusing and awkard. =20 On the J27 and even on C&C99 and C&C 115 the traveler is at aft of cockpit just forward of wheel (on wheel boats) and easily accessed by driver on the tiller boats. Backstay, traveler, sheet all at this location. On the Frers the traveler is forward of the jib trimmer position which just seems odd. I am confused why anyone would put it there. My best guess is that when sailing with a crew the main trimmer is on high side and the jib trimmer sets the jib on low side and then gets up on the rail, Is this correct? =20 The jib controls are a bit different as well. On the J27 the genoa car adjusters are forward of the primaries so that the trimmer can look at the genoa while adjusting the cars. The controls are positioned exactly where the pole down cam cleats are on the Frers. I am tempted to set up using these cam cleats same as J27 as it works better and route the pole downhaul to a cabintop clutch beside the pole uphaul. =20 I am thinking the adjustments we are having are a bit awkward because we are spending some time cruising and/or have guests aboard too frequently to allow us to really sail the boat. On top of that I am very infatuated with a large diesel and wheel so tempted to motor more often than in past. Hopefully with the cooler Fall weather the tourists are less interested and the sailors will come out and we will actually sail and race the boat =20 Sorry for the rambling email. Almost feel like I need to sit forward of the wheel to drive so that can access the sail controls. =20 =20 Later =20 Mike =20 Persistence =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CFC132.3A1374FB Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Dave

 

Interesting about the car adjuster position.  On Persistence the = primaries were moved to cabin top and #43 electric winches installed aft = end of winch pad for single handing/cruising.  We have since = purchased Lewmar 30ST for cabin top and are moving the #43 from cabin = top back to forward end of winch pad.  The car adjusters are back = at end of winch pad by the electric winches.  Note that C&C99 = has them there as well and I find it a dumb place for them while racing = … and awkward

 

My normal position when racing is on main – mostly on a C&C = 115 and also on our J27.  When short on crew on J27 or just sailing = would often do helm and main.  Will seem different to move further = forward but is a small cockpit so expect will not really be an issue = – except when bumping into jib trimmers = ocassionally.

 

Is a very different boat  than the 27.  Seems to be a lot = more jib driven with much larger loads on jib sheets etc … =   Looking fwd to actually racing it a bit.  Love the fact = that we can also stay aboard when not racing

 

Mike

 

From:= = frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com = [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of David = Nauber
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 10:07 AM
To: = frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: Re: = [frers-list]adjusting to a cruiser = ...

 

One more thing...

 

Upwind, I always drive from forward of the wheel. If necessary when = heeled, I put a foot on the pedestal to keep myself in position. I drive = better downwind if I'm standing somewhere behind the wheel. I just see = and feel everything better from = there.

 

DN

 

O= n , David Nauber <dnauber@yahoo.com> = wrote:

 

Hi Mike,

 

The traveler is where it is because the boat was available with = either a tiller or a wheel. When fitted with a tiller, there isn't = enough room in the cockpit to put the traveler behind the jib trimmers. = It is a big tiller, so it takes up all the room there is behind the jib = trimmers. There just isn't room for a main trimmer to fit there. I used = to have a smaller boat (Wavelength 24) with the traveler just forward of = the helm and it was designed so the helmsman trimmed main while racing, = like an Etchells or many other small boats. In a racing situation, you = would not want to trim main and drive on the Frers anyway. Unless you're = single-handing, I don't see a problem with its location and even then, = you can at least rig the traveler to be accessible from the helm as = Scott Marino has done on = Risoluto. 

 

I'm not sure how you're boat is rigged but on Wolverine and all the = other Frers I've seen the car adjuster is indeed forward of the jib = trimmer. Ours runs to a cam cleat on the side of the cabin top below = where the pole downhaul/foreguy is cleated. From there you can look at = the sail while adjusting the car, just as you would = expect.

 

I know what you're saying about motoring a lot. When on vacation, we = usually leave early in the AM before there's enough breeze to justify = hoisting sails, so we motor almost = everywhere. 

 

Regards,

 

Dave

 

O= n Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8:44 AM, "Hoyt, Mike" <Mike.Hoyt@impgroup.com> = wrote:

 

Have now had Persistence for 2 months.  Still feel like we have = not sailed it.

 

We are coming from a series of smaller tiller driven boats with = fractional main driven rigs culminating with a J27.

 

Perhaps it is that I am very distracted by the Winnebago aspects of = the boat.  Loving having an interior and a separate head and = especially loving the 3GM30 diesel.  However even after a 400 NM = delivery and numerous day trips I am finding we have not sailed the boat = and I find some things about the way it is rigged quite confusing and = awkard.

 

On the J27 and even on C&C99 and C&C 115 the traveler is at = aft of cockpit just forward of wheel (on wheel boats) and easily = accessed by driver on the tiller boats.  Backstay, traveler, sheet = all at this location.  On the Frers the traveler is forward of the = jib trimmer position which just seems odd.  I am confused why = anyone would put it there.  My best guess is that when sailing with = a crew the main trimmer is on high side and the jib trimmer sets the jib = on low side and then gets up on the rail,  Is this = correct?

 

The jib controls are a bit different as well.  On the J27 the = genoa car adjusters are forward of the primaries so that the trimmer can = look at the genoa while adjusting the cars.  The controls are = positioned exactly where the pole down cam cleats are on the = Frers.  I am tempted to set up using these cam cleats same as J27 = as it works better and route the pole downhaul to a cabintop clutch = beside the pole uphaul.

 

I am thinking the adjustments we are having are a bit awkward because = we are spending some time cruising and/or have guests aboard too = frequently to allow us to really sail the boat.  On top of that I = am very infatuated with a large diesel and wheel so tempted to motor = more often than in past.  Hopefully with the cooler Fall weather = the tourists are less interested and the sailors will come out and we = will actually sail and race the boat

 

Sorry for the rambling email.  Almost feel like I need to sit = forward of the wheel to drive so that can access the sail = controls. 

 

Later

 

Mike

 

Persistence

 

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01CFC132.3A1374FB-- From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Tue Aug 26 15:14:48 2014 From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (Neal Melanson) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 10:14:48 -0400 Subject: [frers-list]adjusting to a cruiser ... In-Reply-To: <4CDEBB6B0F16C541BA8F985B72705D5419BFF7FC@hfxexc02.impgroup.com> References: <4CDEBB6B0F16C541BA8F985B72705D5419BFF7AF@hfxexc02.impgroup.com> <1409058278.65758.YahooMailNeo@web126102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1409058418.89949.YahooMailNeo@web126106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4CDEBB6B0F16C541BA8F985B72705D5419BFF7FC@hfxexc02.impgroup.com> Message-ID: --089e0160ad941420c7050188edf6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I give resounding support for the tiller set up in Vapor Trail. Not only can I trim the main while steering with just two fingers on the tiller extension, I actually steer the boat and control boat speed, much like an Etchells (owned two), with the mainsheet(s), even in heavy air. Two other bunnies with the tiller is that you need one less crewmember while racing and it folds up neatly out of the way while cruising. Vapor Trail is for sale, price reduced to $33K. http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/boa/4637118303.html Neal On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 9:32 AM, Hoyt, Mike wrote: > Thanks Dave > > > > Interesting about the car adjuster position. On Persistence the primarie= s > were moved to cabin top and #43 electric winches installed aft end of win= ch > pad for single handing/cruising. We have since purchased Lewmar 30ST for > cabin top and are moving the #43 from cabin top back to forward end of > winch pad. The car adjusters are back at end of winch pad by the electri= c > winches. Note that C&C99 has them there as well and I find it a dumb pla= ce > for them while racing =E2=80=A6 and awkward > > > > My normal position when racing is on main =E2=80=93 mostly on a C&C 115 a= nd also > on our J27. When short on crew on J27 or just sailing would often do hel= m > and main. Will seem different to move further forward but is a small > cockpit so expect will not really be an issue =E2=80=93 except when bumpi= ng into > jib trimmers ocassionally. > > > > Is a very different boat than the 27. Seems to be a lot more jib driven > with much larger loads on jib sheets etc =E2=80=A6 Looking fwd to actua= lly racing > it a bit. Love the fact that we can also stay aboard when not racing > > > > Mike > > > > *From:* frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto: > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] *On Behalf Of *David Nauber > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 26, 2014 10:07 AM > *To:* frers-list@lists.frers33.com > *Subject:* Re: [frers-list]adjusting to a cruiser ... > > > > One more thing... > > > > Upwind, I always drive from forward of the wheel. If necessary when > heeled, I put a foot on the pedestal to keep myself in position. I drive > better downwind if I'm standing somewhere behind the wheel. I just see an= d > feel everything better from there. > > > > DN > > > > On , David Nauber wrote: > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > The traveler is where it is because the boat was available with either a > tiller or a wheel. When fitted with a tiller, there isn't enough room in > the cockpit to put the traveler behind the jib trimmers. It is a big > tiller, so it takes up all the room there is behind the jib trimmers. The= re > just isn't room for a main trimmer to fit there. I used to have a smaller > boat (Wavelength 24) with the traveler just forward of the helm and it wa= s > designed so the helmsman trimmed main while racing, like an Etchells or > many other small boats. In a racing situation, you would not want to trim > main and drive on the Frers anyway. Unless you're single-handing, I don't > see a problem with its location and even then, you can at least rig the > traveler to be accessible from the helm as Scott Marino has done on > Risoluto. > > > > I'm not sure how you're boat is rigged but on Wolverine and all the other > Frers I've seen the car adjuster is indeed forward of the jib trimmer. Ou= rs > runs to a cam cleat on the side of the cabin top below where the pole > downhaul/foreguy is cleated. From there you can look at the sail while > adjusting the car, just as you would expect. > > > > I know what you're saying about motoring a lot. When on vacation, we > usually leave early in the AM before there's enough breeze to justify > hoisting sails, so we motor almost everywhere. > > > > Regards, > > > > Dave > > > > On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8:44 AM, "Hoyt, Mike" > wrote: > > > > Have now had Persistence for 2 months. Still feel like we have not saile= d > it. > > > > We are coming from a series of smaller tiller driven boats with fractiona= l > main driven rigs culminating with a J27. > > > > Perhaps it is that I am very distracted by the Winnebago aspects of the > boat. Loving having an interior and a separate head and especially lovin= g > the 3GM30 diesel. However even after a 400 NM delivery and numerous day > trips I am finding we have not sailed the boat and I find some things abo= ut > the way it is rigged quite confusing and awkard. > > > > On the J27 and even on C&C99 and C&C 115 the traveler is at aft of cockpi= t > just forward of wheel (on wheel boats) and easily accessed by driver on t= he > tiller boats. Backstay, traveler, sheet all at this location. On the > Frers the traveler is forward of the jib trimmer position which just seem= s > odd. I am confused why anyone would put it there. My best guess is that > when sailing with a crew the main trimmer is on high side and the jib > trimmer sets the jib on low side and then gets up on the rail, Is this > correct? > > > > The jib controls are a bit different as well. On the J27 the genoa car > adjusters are forward of the primaries so that the trimmer can look at th= e > genoa while adjusting the cars. The controls are positioned exactly wher= e > the pole down cam cleats are on the Frers. I am tempted to set up using > these cam cleats same as J27 as it works better and route the pole downha= ul > to a cabintop clutch beside the pole uphaul. > > > > I am thinking the adjustments we are having are a bit awkward because we > are spending some time cruising and/or have guests aboard too frequently = to > allow us to really sail the boat. On top of that I am very infatuated wi= th > a large diesel and wheel so tempted to motor more often than in past. > Hopefully with the cooler Fall weather the tourists are less interested a= nd > the sailors will come out and we will actually sail and race the boat > > > > Sorry for the rambling email. Almost feel like I need to sit forward of > the wheel to drive so that can access the sail controls. > > > > Later > > > > Mike > > > > Persistence > > > > > --=20 Neal Melanson 89 Central St. Rowley Ma. 01969 978 948 7189 --089e0160ad941420c7050188edf6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I give resounding support for the tiller set up in Vapor T= rail. =C2=A0Not only can I trim the main while steering with just two finge= rs on the tiller extension, I actually steer the boat and control boat spee= d, much like an Etchells (owned two), with the mainsheet(s), even in heavy = air. =C2=A0Two other bunnies with the tiller is that you need one less crew= member while racing and it folds up neatly out of the way while cruising.
Vapor Trail is for sale, price reduced to $33K.

Neal


On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 9:32 AM, Hoyt, Mik= e <Mike.Hoyt@impgroup.com> wrote:

Thanks Dave

=C2=A0

Interesting about t= he car adjuster position.=C2=A0 On Persistence the primaries were moved to = cabin top and #43 electric winches installed aft end of winch pad for singl= e handing/cruising.=C2=A0 We have since purchased Lewmar 30ST for cabin top= and are moving the #43 from cabin top back to forward end of winch pad.=C2= =A0 The car adjusters are back at end of winch pad by the electric winches.= =C2=A0 Note that C&C99 has them there as well and I find it a dumb plac= e for them while racing =E2=80=A6 and awkward

=C2=A0

My normal position = when racing is on main =E2=80=93 mostly on a C&C 115 and also on our J2= 7.=C2=A0 When short on crew on J27 or just sailing would often do helm and = main.=C2=A0 Will seem different to move further forward but is a small cock= pit so expect will not really be an issue =E2=80=93 except when bumping int= o jib trimmers ocassionally.

=C2=A0

Is a very different= boat=C2=A0 than the 27.=C2=A0 Seems to be a lot more jib driven with much = larger loads on jib sheets etc =E2=80=A6 =C2=A0=C2=A0Looking fwd to actuall= y racing it a bit.=C2=A0 Love the fact that we can also stay aboard when no= t racing

=C2=A0

Mike<= /span>

=C2=A0

From: frers-list= -admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] <= b>On Behalf Of David Nauber
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 10:07 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers3= 3.com
Subject: Re: [frers-list]adjusting to a cruiser ...<= /u>

=C2=A0

One = more thing...

=C2=A0<= u>

Upwind, I always drive from forward of the wheel. If necessary when heel= ed, I put a foot on the pedestal to keep myself in position. I drive better= downwind if I'm standing somewhere behind the wheel. I just see and fe= el everything better from there.

=C2=A0<= u>

DN

=C2=A0

On , David Nauber <dnauber@yahoo.com> wrote:=

=C2=A0

Hi Mike,

=C2=A0

The traveler i= s where it is because the boat was available with either a tiller or a whee= l. When fitted with a tiller, there isn't enough room in the cockpit to= put the traveler behind the jib trimmers. It is a big tiller, so it takes = up all the room there is behind the jib trimmers. There just isn't room= for a main trimmer to fit there. I used to have a smaller boat (Wavelength= 24) with the traveler just forward of the helm and it was designed so the = helmsman trimmed main while racing, like an Etchells or many other small bo= ats. In a racing situation, you would not want to trim main and drive on th= e Frers anyway. Unless you're single-handing, I don't see a problem= with its location and even then, you can at least rig the traveler to be a= ccessible from the helm as Scott Marino has done on Risoluto.=C2=A0<= u>

=C2=A0<= u>

I'm not sure how you're boat is rigged but on Wolverine and all = the other Frers I've seen the car adjuster is indeed forward of the jib= trimmer. Ours runs to a cam cleat on the side of the cabin top below where= the pole downhaul/foreguy is cleated. From there you can look at the sail = while adjusting the car, just as you would expect.

=C2=A0<= u>

I know what you're saying about motoring a lot. When on vacation, we= usually leave early in the AM before there's enough breeze to justify = hoisting sails, so we motor almost everywhere.=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= u>

Regards,

=C2=A0<= u>

Dave

=C2=A0

On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8:44 AM, "Hoy= t, Mike" <Mike.Hoyt@impgroup.com> wrote:

=C2=A0

Have now had Persistence for 2 months.=C2=A0 Sti= ll feel like we have not sailed it.

=C2=A0

We are coming from a series of smaller tiller driven boats wit= h fractional main driven rigs culminating with a J27.

=C2=A0

Perhaps it is that I am very distracted by the Winnebago aspec= ts of the boat.=C2=A0 Loving having an interior and a separate head and esp= ecially loving the 3GM30 diesel.=C2=A0 However even after a 400 NM delivery= and numerous day trips I am finding we have not sailed the boat and I find= some things about the way it is rigged quite confusing and awkard.<= span style=3D"font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";colo= r:black">

=C2=A0

On the J27 and even on C&C99 and C&C 115 the traveler = is at aft of cockpit just forward of wheel (on wheel boats) and easily acce= ssed by driver on the tiller boats.=C2=A0 Backstay, traveler, sheet all at = this location.=C2=A0 On the Frers the traveler is forward of the jib trimme= r position which just seems odd.=C2=A0 I am confused why anyone would put i= t there.=C2=A0 My best guess is that when sailing with a crew the main trim= mer is on high side and the jib trimmer sets the jib on low side and then g= ets up on the rail,=C2=A0 Is this correct?

=C2=A0

The jib controls are a bit different as well.=C2=A0 On the J27= the genoa car adjusters are forward of the primaries so that the trimmer c= an look at the genoa while adjusting the cars.=C2=A0 The controls are posit= ioned exactly where the pole down cam cleats are on the Frers.=C2=A0 I am t= empted to set up using these cam cleats same as J27 as it works better and = route the pole downhaul to a cabintop clutch beside the pole uphaul.=

=C2=A0

I am thinking the adjustments we are having are a bit awkward = because we are spending some time cruising and/or have guests aboard too fr= equently to allow us to really sail the boat.=C2=A0 On top of that I am ver= y infatuated with a large diesel and wheel so tempted to motor more often t= han in past.=C2=A0 Hopefully with the cooler Fall weather the tourists are = less interested and the sailors will come out and we will actually sail and= race the boat

=C2=A0

Sorry for the rambling email.=C2=A0 Almost feel like I need to= sit forward of the wheel to drive so that can access the sail controls.=C2= =A0

=C2=A0

Later

=C2=A0

Mike

=C2=A0

Persistence

=C2=A0

=C2=A0




--
Neal Melanson
89 Central St.
Row= ley Ma. 01969
=C2=A0
978 948 7189
--089e0160ad941420c7050188edf6-- From frers-list@lists.frers33.com Wed Aug 27 02:08:35 2014 From: frers-list@lists.frers33.com (frers-list@lists.frers33.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 21:08:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [frers-list]adjusting to a cruiser ... In-Reply-To: <4CDEBB6B0F16C541BA8F985B72705D5419BFF7FC@hfxexc02.impgroup.com> References: <4CDEBB6B0F16C541BA8F985B72705D5419BFF7AF@hfxexc02.impgroup.com> <1409058278.65758.YahooMailNeo@web126102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1409058418.89949.YahooMailNeo@web126106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4CDEBB6B0F16C541BA8F985B72705D5419BFF7FC@hfxexc02.impgroup.com> Message-ID: <8D18FAA8FCB0C4F-20A8-365E7@webmail-vm077.sysops.aol.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D18FAA8FDE1647_20A8_BAF71_webmail-vm077.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi=0Adoes=20anyone=20have=20a=20source=20for=20stantions.=20=20I=20need=20one=20= half=20of=20the=20gait=20port=20side=20foward=0A=0A=0AArnie=20Lesser=0A=0A=0A=0A= -----Original=20Message-----=0AFrom:=20Hoyt,=20Mike=20=0A= To:=20frers-list=20=0ASent:=20Tue,=20Aug=2026,=202= 014=209:34=20am=0ASubject:=20RE:=20[frers-list]adjusting=20to=20a=20cruiser=20..= .=0A=0A=0A=0AThanks=20Dave=0A=20=0AInteresting=20about=20the=20car=20adjuster=20= position.=20=20On=20Persistence=20the=20primaries=20were=20moved=20to=20cabin=20= top=20and=20#43=20electric=20winches=20installed=20aft=20end=20of=20winch=20pad=20= for=20single=20handing/cruising.=20=20We=20have=20since=20purchased=20Lewmar=203= 0ST=20for=20cabin=20top=20and=20are=20moving=20the=20#43=20from=20cabin=20top=20= back=20to=20forward=20end=20of=20winch=20pad.=20=20The=20car=20adjusters=20are=20= back=20at=20end=20of=20winch=20pad=20by=20the=20electric=20winches.=20=20Note=20= that=20C&C99=20has=20them=20there=20as=20well=20and=20I=20find=20it=20a=20dumb=20= place=20for=20them=20while=20racing=20=E2=80=A6=20and=20awkward=0A=20=0AMy=20nor= mal=20position=20when=20racing=20is=20on=20main=20=E2=80=93=20mostly=20on=20a=20= C&C=20115=20and=20also=20on=20our=20J27.=20=20When=20short=20on=20crew=20on=20J2= 7=20or=20just=20sailing=20would=20often=20do=20helm=20and=20main.=20=20Will=20se= em=20different=20to=20move=20further=20forward=20but=20is=20a=20small=20cockpit=20= so=20expect=20will=20not=20really=20be=20an=20issue=20=E2=80=93=20except=20when=20= bumping=20into=20jib=20trimmers=20ocassionally.=0A=20=0AIs=20a=20very=20differen= t=20boat=20=20than=20the=2027.=20=20Seems=20to=20be=20a=20lot=20more=20jib=20dri= ven=20with=20much=20larger=20loads=20on=20jib=20sheets=20etc=20=E2=80=A6=20=20=20= Looking=20fwd=20to=20actually=20racing=20it=20a=20bit.=20=20Love=20the=20fact=20= that=20we=20can=20also=20stay=20aboard=20when=20not=20racing=0A=20=0AMike=0A=20=0A= =0AFrom:=20frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.f= rers33.com]=20On=20Behalf=20Of=20David=20Nauber=0ASent:=20Tuesday,=20August=2026= ,=202014=2010:07=20AM=0ATo:=20frers-list@lists.frers33.com=0ASubject:=20Re:=20[f= rers-list]adjusting=20to=20a=20cruiser=20...=0A=0A=20=0A=0AOne=20more=20thing...= =0A=0A=20=0A=0AUpwind,=20I=20always=20drive=20from=20forward=20of=20the=20wheel.= =20If=20necessary=20when=20heeled,=20I=20put=20a=20foot=20on=20the=20pedestal=20= to=20keep=20myself=20in=20position.=20I=20drive=20better=20downwind=20if=20I'm=20= standing=20somewhere=20behind=20the=20wheel.=20I=20just=20see=20and=20feel=20eve= rything=20better=20from=20there.=0A=0A=20=0A=0ADN=0A=0A=20=0A=0A=0A=0AOn=20,=20D= avid=20Nauber=20=20wrote:=0A=0A=20=0A=0A=0A=0AHi=20Mike,=0A=0A= =20=0A=0AThe=20traveler=20is=20where=20it=20is=20because=20the=20boat=20was=20av= ailable=20with=20either=20a=20tiller=20or=20a=20wheel.=20When=20fitted=20with=20= a=20tiller,=20there=20isn't=20enough=20room=20in=20the=20cockpit=20to=20put=20th= e=20traveler=20behind=20the=20jib=20trimmers.=20It=20is=20a=20big=20tiller,=20so= =20it=20takes=20up=20all=20the=20room=20there=20is=20behind=20the=20jib=20trimme= rs.=20There=20just=20isn't=20room=20for=20a=20main=20trimmer=20to=20fit=20there.= =20I=20used=20to=20have=20a=20smaller=20boat=20(Wavelength=2024)=20with=20the=20= traveler=20just=20forward=20of=20the=20helm=20and=20it=20was=20designed=20so=20t= he=20helmsman=20trimmed=20main=20while=20racing,=20like=20an=20Etchells=20or=20m= any=20other=20small=20boats.=20In=20a=20racing=20situation,=20you=20would=20not=20= want=20to=20trim=20main=20and=20drive=20on=20the=20Frers=20anyway.=20Unless=20yo= u're=20single-handing,=20I=20don't=20see=20a=20problem=20with=20its=20location=20= and=20even=20then,=20you=20can=20at=20least=20rig=20the=20traveler=20to=20be=20a= ccessible=20from=20the=20helm=20as=20Scott=20Marino=20has=20done=20on=20Risoluto= .=20=0A=0A=20=0A=0AI'm=20not=20sure=20how=20you're=20boat=20is=20rigged=20but=20= on=20Wolverine=20and=20all=20the=20other=20Frers=20I've=20seen=20the=20car=20adj= uster=20is=20indeed=20forward=20of=20the=20jib=20trimmer.=20Ours=20runs=20to=20a= =20cam=20cleat=20on=20the=20side=20of=20the=20cabin=20top=20below=20where=20the=20= pole=20downhaul/foreguy=20is=20cleated.=20From=20there=20you=20can=20look=20at=20= the=20sail=20while=20adjusting=20the=20car,=20just=20as=20you=20would=20expect.=0A= =0A=20=0A=0AI=20know=20what=20you're=20saying=20about=20motoring=20a=20lot.=20Wh= en=20on=20vacation,=20we=20usually=20leave=20early=20in=20the=20AM=20before=20th= ere's=20enough=20breeze=20to=20justify=20hoisting=20sails,=20so=20we=20motor=20a= lmost=20everywhere.=20=0A=0A=20=0A=0ARegards,=0A=0A=20=0A=0ADave=0A=0A=20=0A=0A=0A= =0AOn=20Tuesday,=20August=2026,=202014=208:44=20AM,=20"Hoyt,=20Mike"=20=20wrote:=0A=0A=20=0A=0A=0A=0AHave=20now=20had=20Persistence=20fo= r=202=20months.=20=20Still=20feel=20like=20we=20have=20not=20sailed=20it.=0A=0A=20= =0A=0AWe=20are=20coming=20from=20a=20series=20of=20smaller=20tiller=20driven=20b= oats=20with=20fractional=20main=20driven=20rigs=20culminating=20with=20a=20J27.=0A= =0A=20=0A=0APerhaps=20it=20is=20that=20I=20am=20very=20distracted=20by=20the=20W= innebago=20aspects=20of=20the=20boat.=20=20Loving=20having=20an=20interior=20and= =20a=20separate=20head=20and=20especially=20loving=20the=203GM30=20diesel.=20=20= However=20even=20after=20a=20400=20NM=20delivery=20and=20numerous=20day=20trips=20= I=20am=20finding=20we=20have=20not=20sailed=20the=20boat=20and=20I=20find=20some= =20things=20about=20the=20way=20it=20is=20rigged=20quite=20confusing=20and=20awk= ard.=0A=0A=20=0A=0AOn=20the=20J27=20and=20even=20on=20C&C99=20and=20C&C=20115=20= the=20traveler=20is=20at=20aft=20of=20cockpit=20just=20forward=20of=20wheel=20(o= n=20wheel=20boats)=20and=20easily=20accessed=20by=20driver=20on=20the=20tiller=20= boats.=20=20Backstay,=20traveler,=20sheet=20all=20at=20this=20location.=20=20On=20= the=20Frers=20the=20traveler=20is=20forward=20of=20the=20jib=20trimmer=20positio= n=20which=20just=20seems=20odd.=20=20I=20am=20confused=20why=20anyone=20would=20= put=20it=20there.=20=20My=20best=20guess=20is=20that=20when=20sailing=20with=20a= =20crew=20the=20main=20trimmer=20is=20on=20high=20side=20and=20the=20jib=20trimm= er=20sets=20the=20jib=20on=20low=20side=20and=20then=20gets=20up=20on=20the=20ra= il,=20=20Is=20this=20correct?=0A=0A=20=0A=0AThe=20jib=20controls=20are=20a=20bit= =20different=20as=20well.=20=20On=20the=20J27=20the=20genoa=20car=20adjusters=20= are=20forward=20of=20the=20primaries=20so=20that=20the=20trimmer=20can=20look=20= at=20the=20genoa=20while=20adjusting=20the=20cars.=20=20The=20controls=20are=20p= ositioned=20exactly=20where=20the=20pole=20down=20cam=20cleats=20are=20on=20the=20= Frers.=20=20I=20am=20tempted=20to=20set=20up=20using=20these=20cam=20cleats=20sa= me=20as=20J27=20as=20it=20works=20better=20and=20route=20the=20pole=20downhaul=20= to=20a=20cabintop=20clutch=20beside=20the=20pole=20uphaul.=0A=0A=20=0A=0AI=20am=20= thinking=20the=20adjustments=20we=20are=20having=20are=20a=20bit=20awkward=20bec= ause=20we=20are=20spending=20some=20time=20cruising=20and/or=20have=20guests=20a= board=20too=20frequently=20to=20allow=20us=20to=20really=20sail=20the=20boat.=20= =20On=20top=20of=20that=20I=20am=20very=20infatuated=20with=20a=20large=20diesel= =20and=20wheel=20so=20tempted=20to=20motor=20more=20often=20than=20in=20past.=20= =20Hopefully=20with=20the=20cooler=20Fall=20weather=20the=20tourists=20are=20les= s=20interested=20and=20the=20sailors=20will=20come=20out=20and=20we=20will=20act= ually=20sail=20and=20race=20the=20boat=0A=0A=20=0A=0ASorry=20for=20the=20ramblin= g=20email.=20=20Almost=20feel=20like=20I=20need=20to=20sit=20forward=20of=20the=20= wheel=20to=20drive=20so=20that=20can=20access=20the=20sail=20controls.=20=20=0A=0A= =20=0A=0ALater=0A=0A=20=0A=0AMike=0A=0A=20=0A=0APersistence=0A=0A=0A=20=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A=20=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ----------MB_8D18FAA8FDE1647_20A8_BAF71_webmail-vm077.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Hi
=0A
does=20anyone=20have=20a=20source=20for=20stantions.=20 I=20need=20o= ne=20half=20of=20the=20gait=20port=20side=20foward
=0A=0A

=0A
=0A=0A
Arnie=20Lesser
=0A

=0A
=0A= =0A-----Original=20Message-----
=0AFrom:=20Hoyt,=20Mike=20<M= ike.Hoyt@impgroup.com>
=0ATo:=20frers-list=20<frers-list@lists.frers33.= com>
=0ASent:=20Tue,=20Aug=2026,=202014=209:34=20am
=0ASubject:=20RE:=20= [frers-list]adjusting=20to=20a=20cruiser=20...
=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AThanks=20Dave
=0A=0A =0A=0AInteresting=20a= bout=20the=20car=20adjuster=20position. =20On=20Persistence=20the=20primari= es=20were=20moved=20to=20cabin=20top=20and=20#43=20electric=20winches=20installe= d=20aft=20end=20of=20winch=20pad=20for=20single=20handing/cruising. =20We=20= have=20since=20purchased=20Lewmar=2030ST=20for=20cabin=20top=20and=20are=20movin= g=20the=20#43=20from=20cabin=20top=20back=20to=20forward=20end=20of=20winch=20pa= d. =20The=20car=20adjusters=20are=20back=20at=20end=20of=20winch=20pad=20by= =20the=20electric=20winches. =20Note=20that=20C&C99=20has=20them=20ther= e=20as=20well=20and=20I=20find=20it=20a=20dumb=20place=20for=20them=20while=20ra= cing=20=E2=80=A6=20and=20awkward=0A=0A =0A=0AMy=20normal=20= position=20when=20racing=20is=20on=20main=20=E2=80=93=20mostly=20on=20a=20C&= C=20115=20and=20also=20on=20our=20J27. =20When=20short=20on=20crew=20on=20J= 27=20or=20just=20sailing=20would=20often=20do=20helm=20and=20main. =20Will=20= seem=20different=20to=20move=20further=20forward=20but=20is=20a=20small=20cockpi= t=20so=20expect=20will=20not=20really=20be=20an=20issue=20=E2=80=93=20except=20w= hen=20bumping=20into=20jib=20trimmers=20ocassionally.=0A=0A = =0A=0AIs=20a=20very=20different=20boat =20than=20the=2027. =20Seems=20= to=20be=20a=20lot=20more=20jib=20driven=20with=20much=20larger=20loads=20on=20ji= b=20sheets=20etc=20=E2=80=A6=20  Looking=20fwd=20to=20actually=20racin= g=20it=20a=20bit. =20Love=20the=20fact=20that=20we=20can=20also=20stay=20ab= oard=20when=20not=20racing=0A=0A =0A=0AMike=0A= =0A&n= bsp;=0A=0A
=0A=0A= From:=20frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]=20<= b>On=20Behalf=20Of=20David=20Nauber
=0ASent:=20Tuesday,=20August=20= 26,=202014=2010:07=20AM
=0ATo:=20frers-list@lists.frers33.com
=0ASubject:=20Re:=20[fre= rs-list]adjusting=20to=20a=20cruiser=20...
=0A=0A=0A=0A<= div=20class=3D"MsoNormal"> =0A=0A
=0A
=0AOne=20more=20thing...
=0A
=0A=0A
=0A 
=0A=0A=0A
=0AUpwind,=20I=20always=20drive=20from=20forward=20of=20the=20wheel.=20= If=20necessary=20when=20heeled,=20I=20put=20a=20foot=20on=20the=20pedestal=20to=20= keep=20myself=20in=20position.=20I=20drive=20better=20downwind=20if=20I'm=20stan= ding=20somewhere=20behind=20the=20wheel.=20I=20just=20see=20and=20feel=20everyth= ing=20better=20from=20there.
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=0A 
=0A= =0A=0A
=0ADN
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=0A 
=0A=0A=0A
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=0A
=0A= On=20,=20David=20Nauber=20<dnauber@yahoo.com>=20wrote:
=0A
=0A=0A 
= =0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A
=0A
=0AHi=20Mike,
=0A
=0A=0A
=0A 
=0A=0A=0A
=0AThe=20traveler=20is=20where=20it=20is=20because=20the=20boat=20was=20= available=20with=20either=20a=20tiller=20or=20a=20wheel.=20When=20fitted=20with=20= a=20tiller,=20there=20isn't=20enough=20room=20in=20the=20cockpit=20to=20put=20th= e=20traveler=20behind=20the=20jib=20trimmers.=20It=20is=20a=20big=20tiller,=20so= =20it=20takes=20up=20all=20the=20room=20there=20is=20behind=20the=20jib=20trimme= rs.=20There=20just=20isn't=20room=20for=20a=20main=20trimmer=20to=20fit=20there.= =20I=20used=20to=20have=20a=20smaller=20boat=20(Wavelength=2024)=20with=20the=20= traveler=20just=20forward=20of=20the=20helm=20and=20it=20was=20designed=20so=20t= he=20helmsman=20trimmed=20main=20while=20racing,=20like=20an=20Etchells=20or=20m= any=20other=20small=20boats.=20In=20a=20racing=20situation,=20you=20would=20not=20= want=20to=20trim=20main=20and=20drive=20on=20the=20Frers=20anyway.=20Unless=20yo= u're=20single-handing,=20I=20don't=20see=20a=20problem=20with=20its=20location=20= and=20even=20then,=20you=20can=20at=20least=20rig=20the=20traveler=20to=20be=20a= ccessible=20from=20the=20helm=20as=20Scott=20Marino=20has=20done=20on=20Risoluto= . 
=0A
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=0A 
=0A
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=0A= I'm=20= not=20sure=20how=20you're=20boat=20is=20rigged=20but=20on=20Wolverine=20and=20al= l=20the=20other=20Frers=20I've=20seen=20the=20car=20adjuster=20is=20indeed=20for= ward=20of=20the=20jib=20trimmer.=20Ours=20runs=20to=20a=20cam=20cleat=20on=20the= =20side=20of=20the=20cabin=20top=20below=20where=20the=20pole=20downhaul/foreguy= =20is=20cleated.=20From=20there=20you=20can=20look=20at=20the=20sail=20while=20a= djusting=20the=20car,=20just=20as=20you=20would=20expect.
=0A
=0A= =0A
=0A 
=0A=0A=0A
=0AI=20know=20what=20you're=20saying=20a= bout=20motoring=20a=20lot.=20When=20on=20vacation,=20we=20usually=20leave=20earl= y=20in=20the=20AM=20before=20there's=20enough=20breeze=20to=20justify=20hoisting= =20sails,=20so=20we=20motor=20almost=20everywhere. 
=0A=0A= =0A
=0A 
=0A=0A=0A
=0ARegards,
=0A=0A=0A<= div>=0A =0A=0A=0A
=0ADave
=0A=0A=0A
=0A<= div=20class=3D"MsoNormal"=20style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"> 
=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0AOn=20Tuesday,=20August=2026,=202014=208:44=20AM,=20"Hoyt,=20Mike"=20= <Mike.Hoyt@impgroup.com>=20= wrote:
=0A
=0A=0A 
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A
=0A
=0AHave=20now=20had=20Persisten= ce=20for=202=20months. =20Still=20feel=20like=20we=20have=20not=20sailed=20= it.
=0A
=0A=0A
=0A 
=0A=
=0A=0A
=0AWe=20are=20coming=20from=20a=20serie= s=20of=20smaller=20tiller=20driven=20boats=20with=20fractional=20main=20driven=20= rigs=20culminating=20with=20a=20J27.
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=0A=0A
=0A 
=0A
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=0APe= rhaps=20it=20is=20that=20I=20am=20very=20distracted=20by=20the=20Winnebago=20asp= ects=20of=20the=20boat. =20Loving=20having=20an=20interior=20and=20a=20sepa= rate=20head=20and=20especially=20loving=20the=203GM30=20diesel. =20However=20= even=20after=20a=20400=20NM=20delivery=20and=20numerous=20day=20trips=20I=20am=20= finding=20we=20have=20not=20sailed=20the=20boat=20and=20I=20find=20some=20things= =20about=20the=20way=20it=20is=20rigged=20quite=20confusing=20and=20awkard.
=0A=0A=0A
=0A 
=0A=0A= =0A
=0AOn=20the=20J27=20and=20even=20on=20C&C99=20= and=20C&C=20115=20the=20traveler=20is=20at=20aft=20of=20cockpit=20just=20for= ward=20of=20wheel=20(on=20wheel=20boats)=20and=20easily=20accessed=20by=20driver= =20on=20the=20tiller=20boats. =20Backstay,=20traveler,=20sheet=20all=20at=20= this=20location. =20On=20the=20Frers=20the=20traveler=20is=20forward=20of=20= the=20jib=20trimmer=20position=20which=20just=20seems=20odd. =20I=20am=20co= nfused=20why=20anyone=20would=20put=20it=20there. =20My=20best=20guess=20is= =20that=20when=20sailing=20with=20a=20crew=20the=20main=20trimmer=20is=20on=20hi= gh=20side=20and=20the=20jib=20trimmer=20sets=20the=20jib=20on=20low=20side=20and= =20then=20gets=20up=20on=20the=20rail, =20Is=20this=20correct?
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I've followed th= e website but it seems there are not enough Frers 33's out here=C2=A0 to me= rit joining the group.=20 =C2=A0=20 However, I am in the process of getting mine ready to sell and would like t= o know what the process would be to get mine listed on the website? I would= also like to list a 1.5 oz. spinnaker as a separate sale. I have a picture= that shows the colors and design that I would like to go along with that p= ost.=20 =C2=A0=20 Look forward to hearing from you.=20 =C2=A0=20 Frank Wittosch=20 Pepperke 2.0=20 41882=20 ------=_Part_7617831_2041382438.1409417807768 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi,
I'm one of the "orphans" with a Frers 33 on Lake Michigan. I've followed the website but it seems there are not enough Frers 33's out here  to merit joining the group.
 
However, I am in the process of getting mine ready to sell and would like to know what the process would be to get mine listed on the website? I would also like to list a 1.5 oz. spinnaker as a separate sale. I have a picture that shows the colors and design that I would like to go along with that post.
 
Look forward to hearing from you.
 
Frank Wittosch
Pepperke 2.0
41882
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