[frers-list]RE: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #803 - 2 msgs
Rod Stright
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Mon, 06 Oct 2014 12:30:53 -0300
Thanks Don, I'll be hauling Equinox and have a good look around and drop the
rudder before I decide what I'll do. The plate on the cockpit sole and the
bearings that turn on it are badly deformed obviously they weren't the right
choice.
Bill makes an excellent job and I've copied him so you will have his email
address. This is the third one he has made for me (Classic 31, C&C 41 and
the Frers 33) all are excellent. He'll obviously need some good pictures of
Whirlaway.
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Bottaro, Donald
(NIH/NCI) [E]
Sent: October-06-14 12:16 PM
To: 'frers-list@lists.frers33.com'
Subject: [frers-list]RE: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #803 - 2 msgs
Rod,
My own experience with rudder bearing replacement is on the website for
download under the FAQ tab. To address your questions:
1. 22" might just barely do it; I think 30 is more real. You can estimate by
crawling into that space and measuring the gap between the deck and hull
parallel to the rudder, and adding in for hull and deck thickness and rudder
stock above cockpit sole.
2. No experience with Jaffa. I used Tides Marine - mine are the equivalent
of the current "RPB-G/H" system. Tides made them custom to my specs and were
very good people to work with.
3. the Tides system above is ultra high molecular weight polyethylene
(UHMW-PE), similar coefficient of teflon but does not absorb water; more
durable than you might think in this application.
4. Not sure what is on your boat but I have a solid aluminum (approx. 2.5"
diam) rudder stock - there are no stainless components in the rudder (NOT
including its retention system - see #5) to my knowledge.
5. sorry I don't have a picture handy, but the arrangement on whirlaway fits
your description except for materials: a stainless steel pin goes through
the top of the rudder stock and carries two stainless bearings, one on each
side of the stock, retained by cotter pins. The plate upon which the
bearings ride above the cockpit sole is also stainless. To my thinking,
plastic would deform considerably in this application given the small load
bearing surface areas involved. Nothing like to load-to-surface ratio of the
rudder bearings (mine are 5" long for the top and 8" long at the bottom).
One potential source of rudder play here is also easily overlooked: the
plate on the cockpit sole should be perpendicular to the rudder's axis of
rotation. If not, the rudder will be moving up and down as it rotates, which
can be problematic depending on the bearing system you decide on; simple
bushings will tolerate deviations from perpendicular best. You should look
at this carefully at several points on the arc through which the rudder
turns.
BTW your cousin Bill appears to be very talented - I would like to have him
build the fully rigged half hull model for me, could you please put us in
contact?
Thanks and hope this helps,
Don
Don Bottaro
Frers 33 Whirlaway
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of
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Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2014 1:03 AM
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Subject: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #803 - 2 msgs
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Today's Topics:
1. Rudder Tube, bearings or bushings (Rod Stright)
2. RE: Rudder Tube, bearings or bushings (Hoyt, Mike)
--__--__--
Message: 1
From: Rod Stright <StrightR@eastlink.ca>
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 08:46:43 -0300
Subject: [frers-list]Rudder Tube, bearings or bushings
Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
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Hi Guys,
Getting ready to haul Equinox and will need to drop the rudder and likely
replace the bushings at least as there is a lot of play. Already read the
articles on the site and have received some good feedback from Edgar. A
couple of questions:
1. How much clearance do I need to drop the rudder. I believe I read
somewhere 22 inches? Is that correct, I want to be able to drop the rudder
and post without depending on the travel lift or digging a hole in bedrock
:).
2. Has anyone any experience with Jaffa or other bearings versus the
bushings.
3. What bushing material has been used?
4. I assume the aluminum tube that is at the top of the rudder post
extends all the way down over the stainless steel rudder post.
5. Does anyone have a picture of the mounting arrangement at the top of
the rudder stock (where it is mounted in the cockpit sole)? Mine has poor
quality rollers mounted on a Starboard (plastic) plate and the rollers are
badly worn. Others I have seen have a stainless steel plate and Derlin
rollers on a through bolt.
Regards
Rod
Equinox
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-CA =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Hi Guys,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Getting = ready
to haul Equinox and will need to drop the rudder and likely = replace the
bushings at least as there is a lot of play. Already = read the
articles on the site and have received some good feedback from =
Edgar. A couple of questions:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span = style=3D'font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"'> =
</span></span><![endif]>How much clearance do I need to drop the =
rudder. I believe I read somewhere 22 inches? Is that = correct,
I want to be able to drop the rudder and post without depending = on the
travel lift or digging a hole in bedrock <span =
style=3D'font-family:Wingdings'>J</span>.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span =
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> =
</span></span><![endif]>Has anyone any experience with Jaffa or other =
bearings versus the bushings.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3.<span = style=3D'font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"'> =
</span></span><![endif]>What bushing material has been =
used?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>4.<span = style=3D'font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"'> =
</span></span><![endif]>I assume the aluminum tube that is at the top of =
the rudder post extends all the way down over the stainless steel rudder =
post.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if =
!supportLists]><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>5.<span = style=3D'font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"'> =
</span></span><![endif]>Does anyone have a picture of the mounting =
arrangement at the top of the rudder stock (where it is mounted in the =
cockpit sole)? Mine has poor quality rollers mounted on a = Starboard
(plastic) plate and the rollers are badly worn. Others I = have seen
have a stainless steel plate and Derlin rollers on a through = bolt.
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Regards<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Rod<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Equinox<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0038_01CFDEE6.8EA64760--
--__--__--
Message: 2
Subject: RE: [frers-list]Rudder Tube, bearings or bushings
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 09:23:10 -0300
From: "Hoyt, Mike" <Mike.Hoyt@impgroup.com>
To: <frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Rod
=20
I heard somewhere that you ensure yard has cradle raised 1 foot.
=20
Are you doing the work this Fall? Give me a shout and I will come over to
assist or observe. Apparently Persistence will be replacing rudder bearings
this year or next as well as suggested in survey.
=20
Mike
=20
BTW. There are three weeks of sailing season left. That represents 15% of
the entire season.
=20
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Rod Stright
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 8:47 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]Rudder Tube, bearings or bushings
=20
Hi Guys,
=20
Getting ready to haul Equinox and will need to drop the rudder and likely
replace the bushings at least as there is a lot of play. Already read the
articles on the site and have received some good feedback from Edgar. A
couple of questions:
=20
1. How much clearance do I need to drop the rudder. I believe I
read somewhere 22 inches? Is that correct, I want to be able to drop the
rudder and post without depending on the travel lift or digging a hole in
bedrock J.
2. Has anyone any experience with Jaffa or other bearings versus
the bushings.
3. What bushing material has been used?
4. I assume the aluminum tube that is at the top of the rudder post
extends all the way down over the stainless steel rudder post.
5. Does anyone have a picture of the mounting arrangement at the
top of the rudder stock (where it is mounted in the cockpit sole)? Mine has
poor quality rollers mounted on a Starboard (plastic) plate and the rollers
are badly worn. Others I have seen have a stainless steel plate and Derlin
rollers on a through bolt.=20
=20
Regards
Rod
Equinox
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Rod<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I heard somewhere that = you
ensure yard has cradle raised 1 foot.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Are you doing the work =
this Fall? Give me a shout and I will come over to assist or =
observe. Apparently Persistence will be replacing rudder bearings =
this year or next as well as suggested in = survey.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>BTW. There are = three
weeks of sailing season left. That represents 15% of the = entire
season.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in = 0in
0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rod =
Stright<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 03, 2014 8:47 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com<br><b>Subject:</b> [frers-list]Rudder Tube, =
bearings or bushings<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>Hi Guys,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>Getting ready to haul Equinox and will need to drop the =
rudder and likely replace the bushings at least as there is a lot of =
play. Already read the articles on the site and have received some =
good feedback from Edgar. A couple of =
questions:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in'><span lang=3DEN-CA>1.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-CA style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'> </span><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>How much clearance do I need to drop the rudder. I =
believe I read somewhere 22 inches? Is that correct, I want to be =
able to drop the rudder and post without depending on the travel lift or =
digging a hole in bedrock </span><span lang=3DEN-CA =
style=3D'font-family:Wingdings'>J</span><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in'><span lang=3DEN-CA>2.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-CA style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'> </span><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>Has anyone any experience with Jaffa or other bearings = versus
the bushings.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-.25in'><span lang=3DEN-CA>3.</span><span =
lang=3DEN-CA style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'> </span><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>What bushing material has been = used?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p
class=3DMsoListParagraph = style=3D'text-indent:-.25in'><span
lang=3DEN-CA>4.</span><span = lang=3DEN-CA
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'> </span><span = lang=3DEN-CA>I
assume the aluminum tube that is at the top of the rudder = post extends all
the way down over the stainless steel rudder = post.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p
class=3DMsoListParagraph = style=3D'text-indent:-.25in'><span
lang=3DEN-CA>5.</span><span = lang=3DEN-CA
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif"'> </span><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>Does anyone have a picture of the mounting arrangement at = the
top of the rudder stock (where it is mounted in the cockpit = sole)?
Mine has poor quality rollers mounted on a Starboard =
(plastic) plate and the rollers are badly worn. Others I have seen =
have a stainless steel plate and Derlin rollers on a through bolt. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>Rod<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-CA>Equinox<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
------_=_NextPart_001_01CFDF04.CBB5DB90--
--__--__--
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