[frers-list]rudder removal Frers 33
john oconnor
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Thu, 10 Sep 2020 10:54:55 -0700
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Maybe a piano dolly (low clearance, 4 wheels) would be helpful. Excellent id=
ea to have a soft =E2=80=9Cimpact area=E2=80=9D.=20
John O=E2=80=99
Irish Gold=20
> On Sep 10, 2020, at 10:23 AM, Hoyt, Mike <Mike.Hoyt@impgroup.com> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Thanks Art
> =20
> I was planning to have blocks under rudder and then lift a little to remov=
e one block at time and then repeat until out. Yes probably very awkward to=
carry
> =20
> I did just as you suggested at noon today. I measured about 14.5 inches i=
nside at rudder post, estimate about 3 inches at top of post and buildup aro=
und that area and up to =C2=BD inch for hull thickness. Total seems about t=
he 21.25 inches in the previous document.
> =20
> Like Rod Stright=E2=80=99s Equinox Persistence keel when on cradle is jus=
t over 12 inches off the ground so I do not believe we need to lift the boat=
at all.=20
> =20
> Thanks again. I will try to take pictures when I do this end of October.
> =20
> At noon I was inside cockpit locker (fun) to remove CNG canister anyway. I=
took the opportunity to look at the steering arrangement at that time and h=
ave a better idea what to expect now.
> =20
> Mike
> =20
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com <frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.c=
om> On Behalf Of Art Kelley
> Sent: September 10, 2020 2:03 PM
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: Re: [frers-list]rudder removal Frers 33
> =20
> So Mike, I guess I am not as strong as you. Catching a 117 pound rudder 2=E2=
=80=99 off the ground as it slides out was not a fun experience. Yes I did s=
ubsequently carry it from place to place but it is an awkward load and a bad=
angle. And I have dropped it out usually single handed twice since. Remembe=
r the load is going to want to twist in your hands. Put something soft under=
it ;-)
> =20
> Yes you should only need about 21=E2=80=9D of clearance to drop the rudder=
. If you were to measure the post from the inside of the hull to the top as i=
t extends through the deck and add a little for the thickness of the hull, t=
hat=E2=80=99s the clearance you will need.=20
>=20
> The corrosion problem is the usual- stainless steel bolts through aluminum=
. Try cracking the bolts in the water and then make your decision. Your yard=
is making a safe choice suggesting doing it while on the hoist not knowing t=
he clearance you need. Our deep keel gives us that space. I was warned to di=
g a hole under mine the first time, turned out not to have been necessary.=20=
> =20
> Your mileage may vary.=20
>=20
> Art
>=20
>=20
> On Sep 10, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Hoyt, Mike <Mike.Hoyt@impgroup.com> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> I read through those but was hoping someone had thought to take photos of t=
he process as well. =46rom what I read the rudder post was described as 21.=
25=E2=80=9D long. Does this mean that I need just over 21.25 inches between=
ground level and bottom of rudder when on cradle to remove the rudder?
> =20
> Also I read in one of those two descriptions that there was corrosion and i=
t took a lot of time to get pins loose, etc=E2=80=A6 Our dock master has su=
ggested that everything but the pin be removed while in water and that at ha=
ulout would lift up with cradle mover and we would pull pin and drop rudder.=
If items are seized this does not sound practical as I would likely need s=
everal days at least to get the pins and everything loos to drop rudder
> =20
> Another question is that rudder was described as 117 lbs. and that it was e=
xtremely heavy and not able to be removed by a single person. A 4 stroke 9.=
9 hp outboard is 115 lbs and can be manhandled by one person. What is it ab=
out the rudder that one person can not lower it? Can it not be blocked from=
below, then the pin removed and then lowered from below?
> =20
> Thanks
> =20
> Mike
> =20
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com <frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.c=
om> On Behalf Of Art Kelley
> Sent: September 10, 2020 10:42 AM
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Subject: Re: [frers-list]rudder removal Frers 33
> =20
> Mike,
> =20
> Check the FAQs on the website, there are a couple of write-ups about it. I=
n my experience, as long as the keel is supported a few inches off the groun=
d, the rudder will slip out. Be careful, it=E2=80=99s heavy!
> =20
> Art
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Sep 10, 2020, at 9:15 AM, Hoyt, Mike <Mike.Hoyt@impgroup.com> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Have to change rudder bearing on Persistence in the off season.
> =20
> How much clearance do I need?
> Anyone care to describe the process?
> =20
> Thanks
> =20
> Mike Hoyt
> Persistence
> Frers 33 #16
> www.hoytsailing.com
> =20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr">Maybe a piano dolly (low c=
learance, 4 wheels) would be helpful. Excellent idea to have a soft =E2=80=9C=
impact area=E2=80=9D. </div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>John O=E2=80=99</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Irish Gold </div><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Sep 10, 2020, at 10:23 AM, Hoyt, Mike <=
;Mike.Hoyt@impgroup.com> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote typ=
e=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks Art<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I was planning to have blo=
cks under rudder and then lift a little to remove one block at time and then=
repeat until out. Yes probably very awkward
to carry<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I did just as you suggeste=
d at noon today. I measured about 14.5 inches inside at rudder post, e=
stimate about 3 inches at top of post and buildup
around that area and up to =C2=BD inch for hull thickness. Total seem=
s about the 21.25 inches in the previous document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Like Rod Stright=E2=80=99s=
Equinox Persistence keel when on cradle is just over 12 inches off th=
e ground so I do not believe we need to lift the boat at
all. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks again. I will=
try to take pictures when I do this end of October.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">At noon I was inside cockp=
it locker (fun) to remove CNG canister anyway. I took the opportunity t=
o look at the steering arrangement at that time
and have a better idea what to expect now.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></=
p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0=
cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> fre=
rs-list-admin@lists.frers33.com <frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Art Kelley<br>
<b>Sent:</b> September 10, 2020 2:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> frers-list@lists.frers33.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [frers-list]rudder removal Frers 33<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So Mike, I guess I am not as strong as you. Catching a=
117 pound rudder 2=E2=80=99 off the ground as it slides out was not a fun e=
xperience. Yes I did subsequently carry it from place to place but it is an a=
wkward load and a bad angle. And I have
dropped it out usually single handed twice since. Remember the load is goin=
g to want to twist in your hands. Put something soft under it ;-)<span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes you should only need about 21=E2=80=9D of clearan=
ce to drop the rudder. If you were to measure the post from the inside of th=
e hull to the top as it extends through the deck and add a little for the th=
ickness of the hull, that=E2=80=99s the clearance
you will need. <br>
<br>
The corrosion problem is the usual- stainless steel bolts through aluminum. T=
ry cracking the bolts in the water and then make your decision. Your yard is=
making a safe choice suggesting doing it while on the hoist not knowing the=
clearance you need. Our deep
keel gives us that space. I was warned to dig a hole under mine the first t=
ime, turned out not to have been necessary. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Your mileage may vary.=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Art<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Sep 10, 2020, at 10=
:32 AM, Hoyt, Mike <<a href=3D"mailto:Mike.Hoyt@impgroup.com">Mike.Hoyt@i=
mpgroup.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Tahoma",sans-se=
rif">=EF=BB=BF</span> <span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri",sans-serif">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I read through those but w=
as hoping someone had thought to take photos of the process as well. =46rom=
what I read the rudder post was described as
21.25=E2=80=9D long. Does this mean that I need just over 21.25 inche=
s between ground level and bottom of rudder when on cradle to remove the rud=
der?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Also I read in one of thos=
e two descriptions that there was corrosion and it took a lot of time to get=
pins loose, etc=E2=80=A6 Our dock master has suggested
that everything but the pin be removed while in water and that at haulout w=
ould lift up with cradle mover and we would pull pin and drop rudder. I=
f items are seized this does not sound practical as I would likely need seve=
ral days at least to get the pins
and everything loos to drop rudder</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Another question is that r=
udder was described as 117 lbs. and that it was extremely heavy and not able=
to be removed by a single person. A 4 stroke
9.9 hp outboard is 115 lbs and can be manhandled by one person. What i=
s it about the rudder that one person can not lower it? Can it not be b=
locked from below, then the pin removed and then lowered from below?</span><=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks</span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Mike</span><o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0=
cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
<a href=3D"mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com">frers-list-admin@lists=
.frers33.com</a> <<a href=3D"mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com">f=
rers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Art Kelley<br>
<b>Sent:</b> September 10, 2020 10:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.=
frers33.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [frers-list]rudder removal Frers 33</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Mike,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Check the FAQs on the website, there are a couple of w=
rite-ups about it. In my experience, as long as the keel is supported a few i=
nches off the ground, the rudder will slip out. Be careful, it=E2=80=99s hea=
vy!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Art<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Sep 10, 2020, at 9:=
15 AM, Hoyt, Mike <<a href=3D"mailto:Mike.Hoyt@impgroup.com">Mike.Hoyt@im=
pgroup.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Tahoma",sans-se=
rif">=EF=BB=BF</span> <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"=
>Have to change rudder bearing on Persistence in the off season.</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">How much cl=
earance do I need?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Anyone care=
to describe the process?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thanks</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Mike Hoyt</=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Persistence=
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Frers 33 #1=
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http://www.hoytsailing.com">www.hoytsailing.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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