[MWForum]Status of Logo, research summary
cy
mwforum@lists.mathcats.com
Sun, 25 Jul 2004 10:17:23 -0600
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Status of Logo, research summaryKaren,
So sorry I missed participating in your study. I am a voice from the =
past and the present concerning Logo. I use it every day in several =
different ways. At our school, we have an extensive Lego lab ($8,000 =
worth of grants over the past 24 years ~ three implementations: the =
original Lego TC Logo, Dacta Control Lab, and Mindstorms). We have a =
site license for MicroWorlds Pro. We will be trying out EX Robotics this =
fall. Our Gifted and Talented people use the programs. Our At-Risk, =
Special Ed. and ESL students flourish with it. And it is applied in math =
and science units. Far from being a thing of the past, it is very =
current and very much a positive tool. We have connections with =
engineering professors at the University of Colorado who use Mindstorms =
in their classes. Far from being a distraction from the rigors of =
highstakes testing, our students have concrete experiences upon which to =
base their understandings that show up in testing. We have gone from =
being a reatively low scoring school because of our demographics that =
include many ESL learners, immigrant and low income housing families, a =
lot of at-risk and special ed. students... and over the 27 years that I =
have been teaching here risen to a HIGH-rating on the state report card.
In the summers, I- teach an Introduction to Logo Programming at St. =
Michael's College in Burlington, Vt. where the programming course is a =
requirement for an IT master's and also seen as a valid course in the =
state endorsement process.
Although it may appear from your findings the Logo is not a viable tool, =
it is a diamond waiting to be discovered. Papert's vision is vibrant and =
workable. It is alive and well here in Boulder, Colorado.
Thanks for sending me your study.
Craig
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Craig Yager, IB-PYP Coordinator, Grade 5 Teacher
Whittier International School
Boulder, Colorado
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Karen Randall=20
To: mwforum@lists.mathcats.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 9:29 AM
Subject: [MWForum]Status of Logo, research summary
My thanks to the 15 people who responded to the questions I posted =
about Logo on the Ed Tech, MicroWorlds and Logo forums. Several of you =
expressed interest in the outcome of the project, so here are my =
observations pulled from your comments. The sampling is not at all =
statistically relevant, still it was interesting to find some patterns =
to people's thoughts and experiences.=20
1. Current U.S. Logo users seem to have been at it for a long time.=20
People wrote about having been introduced to Logo in 1972, or =
the 80's, or 1995. While many still actively include the language in =
their work, lots of comments I received were framed in the past tense.=20
Sample comments:
"I am convinced that it has great educational value to teach a little =
bit of programming.... Students practically taught each other how to =
use it. If I showed a student a cool little procedure, within days =
everyone in the class would know how to do it because the students would =
teach each other. It was the most fun class I have ever taught."
"I am in the last years of my career and it will probably die here =
when I retire as no other faculty has shown any interest in its =
application."
"I'm no longer a classroom teacher. If I was, not sure if I'd be using =
it or not. But I'm still convinced it has a lot of value even though =
it's not 'flavour of the month'."
" Then I left. ... and MicroWorlds as a technology integration tool =
largely vaporized from the school."
2. The strongest responses that documented growing use in school =
settings came from England, and links to use in other parts of the world =
were also sent along.
Comments:
"We are currently evaluating MicroWorlds EX here in Northumberland =
(UK). ... The reception has been extremely positive with both staff and =
students."
"Here in the UK, here in the UK, we use it a whole lot in primary =
education ! ... Our teachers are given extra professional development =
by working with the computer systems manager if they are not confident =
in working with Logo when they come to our school."
3. While MicroWorlds was referred to by many, there are strong =
advocates for other versions of Logo, in particular Visual Logic , =
StarLogo, MSWLogo and UCB Logo.
4. Logo users are a subculture, and joining the culture is not as =
easy.
This is my own observation, based on an Internet and educational =
journal database search and personal experience. Once a new teacher is =
introduced to Logo in a math method class, he or she would have to be =
pretty motivated to track down the resources needed to really use it. I =
have not seen Logo-based offerings at resent teacher conferences in =
Minnesota, most journal citations are over 10 years old, and it takes a =
great deal of hunting and sorting to get at the specifics of potential =
curriculum projects posted on the web.=20
5. The issues contributing to the limited use of Logo are the same =
ones affecting the application of constructivist theory in general.
The current educational climate was cited by many as the reason =
programming and project-style investigations are a shrinking part of =
school curriculum. Where programming is taught, there is a debate as to =
whether the instruction should be in languages which have a marketplace =
use.
Sample comments:
"The summer before testing was implemented all schools officially =
abandoned Logo. A handful of teachers (3) now teach it on the black =
market so to speak. ...But in all cases in Colorado, it must be =
carefully hidden because the test drives everything. A teacher who =
blatantly taught Logo would run the risk of censure if his students did =
not also perform very well on the standardized exams. Very few teachers =
have enough confidence to risk that."
"The current teach to the test mind frame makes it difficult for =
teachers to spend time on projects based learning even if they have =
skills and inclination to do so."
"The learning curve for teachers can be fairly steep"
"* not all learners are suited or ready for the demands of =
problem-solving
with Logo
* very few teachers are suited or ready for it - effective learning =
through
Logo requires quite a hand-over of autonomy in my opinion
* teachers who taught programming from a commercial perspective didn't =
like
it because it encourages 'bottom-up' rather than 'topdown' approaches
* it's all about the process but teachers often focus on the product
* it's challenging *and* content-free, the opposite of what many =
decision-makers think is important in education
* working with Logo looks a little too much like play for some =
people's
comfort"
"Since administrators got through their school lives without learning =
anything about computer programming, it is largely a mystery to them, =
and many cannot appreciate its inherent value nor the beauty and =
simplicity of Logo.=20
Not one single course in programming is required for the Educational =
Technology Master's degree."
6. My overall conclusion is that for a variety of reasons, Logo's =
technology innovation and integration wave crested a while ago but the =
arguments for its use remain strong. To remain viable a new generation =
of educators will need access to resources, training and support for =
implementation.
=20
Karen Randall
St. Paul, MN
krandall@ties2.net
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Karen,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So sorry I missed participating in your =
study. I am=20
a voice from the past and the present concerning Logo. I use it every =
day in=20
several different ways. At our school, we have an extensive Lego lab =
($8,000=20
worth of grants over the past 24 years ~ three implementations: the =
original Lego TC Logo, Dacta Control Lab, and Mindstorms). We have =
a site=20
license for MicroWorlds Pro. We will be trying out EX Robotics =
this=20
fall. Our Gifted and Talented people use the programs. Our At-Risk, =
Special=20
Ed. and ESL students flourish with it. And it is applied in math and=20
science units. Far from being a thing of the past, it is very =
current and=20
very much a positive tool. We have connections with engineering =
professors at=20
the University of Colorado who use Mindstorms in their classes. Far =
from=20
being a distraction from the rigors of highstakes testing, our students =
have=20
concrete experiences upon which to base their understandings that show =
up in=20
testing. We have gone from being a reatively low scoring school because =
of our=20
demographics that include many ESL learners, immigrant and low income =
housing=20
families, a lot of at-risk and special ed. students... and over the 27 =
years=20
that I have been teaching here risen to a HIGH-rating on the state =
report=20
card.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In the summers, I- teach an =
Introduction to=20
Logo Programming at St. Michael's College in Burlington, Vt. where the=20
programming course is a requirement for an IT master's and also seen as =
a=20
valid course in the state endorsement process.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Although it may appear from your =
findings the Logo=20
is not a viable tool, it is a diamond waiting to be discovered. Papert's =
vision=20
is vibrant and workable. It is alive and well here in Boulder,=20
Colorado.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for sending me your =
study.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Craig</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt">
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><FONT=20
size=3D2>----------------------------------------------------------------=
-<?xml:namespace=20
prefix =3D o ns =3D "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"=20
/><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><FONT size=3D2>Craig Yager, IB-PYP =
Coordinator, Grade 5=20
Teacher<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><A=20
href=3D"http://www.bvsd.k12.co.us/schools/whittier"><FONT =
size=3D2>Whittier=20
International School</FONT></A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><FONT size=3D2>Boulder,=20
Colorado<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dkrandall@ties2.net href=3D"mailto:krandall@ties2.net">Karen =
Randall</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dmwforum@lists.mathcats.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:mwforum@lists.mathcats.com">mwforum@lists.mathcats.com</A>=
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 20, 2004 =
9:29=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [MWForum]Status of =
Logo,=20
research summary</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DHelvetica color=3D#000000 size=3D+2>My thanks to the =
15 people who=20
responded to the questions I posted about Logo on the Ed Tech, =
MicroWorlds and=20
Logo forums. Several of you expressed interest in the outcome of =
the=20
project, so here are my observations pulled from your comments. =
The=20
sampling is not at all statistically relevant, still it was =
interesting to=20
find some patterns to people's thoughts and=20
experiences. <BR><BR><BR>1. Current U.S. Logo users seem to =
have=20
been at it for a long =
time. <BR><BR><X-TAB> =20
</X-TAB>People wrote about having been introduced to Logo in 1972, or =
the=20
80's, or 1995. While many still actively include the language in =
their=20
work, lots of comments I received were framed in the past=20
tense. <BR>Sample comments:<BR>"I am convinced that it has great=20
educational value to teach a little bit of programming.... =
Students=20
practically taught each other how to use it. If I showed a student a =
cool=20
little procedure, within days everyone in the class would know how to =
do it=20
because the students would teach each other. It was the most fun class =
I have=20
ever taught."<BR>"I am in the last years of my career and it will =
probably die=20
here when I retire as no other faculty has shown any interest in its=20
application."<BR>"I'm no longer a classroom teacher. If I was, not =
sure if I'd=20
be using it or not. But I'm still convinced it has a lot of value even =
though=20
it's not 'flavour of the month'."<BR>" Then I left. =
... and=20
MicroWorlds as a technology integration tool largely vaporized from =
the=20
school."<BR><BR>2. The strongest responses that documented =
growing use=20
in school settings came from England, and links to use in other parts =
of the=20
world were also sent along.<BR><BR>Comments:<BR>"We are currently =
evaluating=20
MicroWorlds EX here in Northumberland (UK). ... The reception =
has been=20
extremely positive with both staff and students."<BR>"Here in the UK, =
here in=20
the UK, we use it a whole lot in primary education ! ... Our =
teachers=20
are given extra professional development by working with the computer =
systems=20
manager if they are not confident in working with Logo when they come =
to our=20
school."<BR><BR>3. While MicroWorlds was referred to by many, =
there are=20
strong advocates for other versions of Logo, in particular Visual =
Logic ,=20
StarLogo, MSWLogo and UCB Logo.<BR><BR>4. Logo users are a =
subculture,=20
and joining the culture is not as easy.<BR><BR><X-TAB> =
</X-TAB>This is=20
my own observation, based on an Internet and educational journal =
database=20
search and personal experience. Once a new teacher is introduced =
to Logo=20
in a math method class, he or she would have to be pretty motivated to =
track=20
down the resources needed to really use it. I have not seen =
Logo-based=20
offerings at resent teacher conferences in Minnesota, most journal =
citations=20
are over 10 years old, and it takes a great deal of hunting and =
sorting to get=20
at the specifics of potential curriculum projects posted on the=20
web. <BR><BR>5. The issues contributing to the limited use =
of Logo=20
are the same ones affecting the application of constructivist theory =
in=20
general.<BR><BR><X-TAB> =
</X-TAB>The=20
current educational climate was cited by many as the reason =
programming and=20
project-style investigations are a shrinking part of school =
curriculum. =20
Where programming is taught, there is a debate as to whether the =
instruction=20
should be in languages which have a marketplace use.<BR>Sample=20
comments:<BR>"The summer before testing was implemented all schools =
officially=20
abandoned Logo. A handful of teachers (3) now teach it on the =
black=20
market so to speak. ...But in all cases in Colorado, it must be =
carefully=20
hidden because the test drives everything. A teacher who =
blatantly=20
taught Logo would run the risk of censure if his students did =
not also=20
perform very well on the standardized exams. Very few teachers =
have=20
enough confidence to risk that."<BR>"The current teach to the test =
mind frame=20
makes it difficult for teachers to spend time on projects based =
learning even=20
if they have skills and inclination to do so."<BR>"The learning curve =
for=20
teachers can be fairly steep"<BR>"* not all learners are suited or =
ready for=20
the demands of problem-solving</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DHelvetica color=3D#000000 size=3D+2>with Logo<BR>* =
very few=20
teachers are suited or ready for it - effective learning =
through<BR>Logo=20
requires quite a hand-over of autonomy in my opinion<BR>* teachers who =
taught=20
programming from a commercial perspective didn't like<BR>it because it =
encourages 'bottom-up' rather than 'topdown' approaches<BR>* it's all =
about=20
the process but teachers often focus on the product<BR>* it's =
challenging=20
*and* content-free, the opposite of what many decision-makers think is =
important in education<BR>* working with Logo looks a little too much =
like=20
play for some people's<BR>comfort"<BR>"Since administrators got =
through their=20
school lives without learning anything about computer programming, it =
is=20
largely a mystery to them, and many cannot appreciate its inherent =
value nor=20
the beauty and simplicity of Logo. <BR>Not one single course in=20
programming is required for the Educational Technology Master's=20
degree."<BR><BR>6. My overall conclusion is that for a variety =
of=20
reasons, Logo's technology innovation and integration wave crested a =
while ago=20
but the arguments for its use remain strong. To remain viable a =
new=20
generation of educators will need access to resources, training and =
support=20
for implementation.<BR><BR> <BR>Karen Randall<BR>St. Paul,=20
MN<BR>krandall@ties2.net</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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