[MWForum]MicroWorlds Reference Card

Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:33:51 -0700

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Hi guys ~=20

I'm really impressed! You're really looking deeply at the basic =
structure of MW.

The PDF is a great start, far beyond what I'd have expected. The banter =
between yourselves about how to do it is adrenal refreshing.

As I purused the PDF, I made notes with Wordpad, This is what I wrote:
give full names (or explanation of abbrev.):

bg, setbg, pd, pu, ht, st, cg, tc, sol, eol, cf,=20

cb, cu, cd, top,bottom, eot?, cc.

These are important actions. But what newbie would suspect that CG means =
"Clear Graphics"? - a really basic function.

And things to add: There is a logo tradition that some access to deeper =
levels is offered. In the current versions it's access to DLLs and =
direct memory management.

I personally have no idea how to utilize these things. But in another =
universe of one of the DOS Logos, I was able to get some help to be able =
to bring coordinate data from a digitizer into Logo. This is an aspect =
of Logo to be respected and preserved, whether we personally know how to =
use it or not. Presenting that capability on the Reference Card is an =
important expression of Logo's ability to relate to the rest of the =
computing world.

Let's be clear what version we're discussing.

Overburdend bookshelf editing has long ago eliminated truly early =
versions of of Logo. I no longer have either Apple II Logo, or the =
Harvard Graphics version. I do still have a Quick Reference Card from =
IBM Logo (DOS), by LCSI, 1983. I also have the complete manual, and =
5.25" floppy for it. I don't have a (working) scanner right now, so I'll =
have to figure out how to send it to you. Interestingly, it has more =
categories than you have, even though it a much simpler system.=20

Give me a bit, and I'll figure out how to send it to you.

Regards, Jeff

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Daniel Ajoy" <dajoy@openworldlearning.org>
To: <mwforum@lists.mathcats.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:38 PM
Subject: [MWForum]MicroWorlds Reference Card

> Hi everybody,
>=20
> Based on Jeff Knope original idea Wendy and I decided to=20
> compose a simple MicroWorlds Reference Card. We adopted=20
> most of the original LCSI categories and put under them the=20
> commands listed in two-columns tables. Wendy and I don't=20
> agree on some of the positions of some commands. We would=20
> like to hear ideas on how to improve it.=20
>=20
> The 22KB PDF document is at:
>=20
> http://mia.openworldlearning.org/resources/mw_refcard.pdf
>=20
>=20
> Wendy wrote:
>=20
> >  I think it should include every primitive, yes, because=20
> > part of the point of it would be to call attention to=20
> > often-underutilized primitives in the various categories.
>=20
> > I see that you (and LCSI) have placed CC in the "screen=20
> > management" section but it doesn't affect anything on the=20
> > project page, just the command center. Some of the other=20
> > primitives in that category also don't seem to affect the=20
> > "screen."  Perhaps the category might be better named=20
> > "project management"...
>=20
> > why isn't STOP listed with STOPALL and STOPME? =20
>=20
> > For instance, to me it would make sense to place "WHEN"=20
> > somewhat near "IF" and "IFELSE" or even in the same box. =20
>=20
> Daniel wrote:
>=20
> > I'll place it with CC on a separate category.
>=20
> > STOP stops the current procedure and returns. OUTPUT stops=20
> > the current procedure and returns a value.
> >=20
> > STOPALL stops all "processes". STOPME stops this process.=20
> > WAITUNTIL pauses this process.
>=20
> Wendy wrote:
>=20
> > I know some teachers use WHEN and IF to fulfill similar needs
>=20
> > I did not realize until you replied that OUTPUT stops the=20
> > current procedure; I only knew of its value-returning=20
> > function.  But STOP does not return anything, as far as I=20
> > understand.  So I still think STOP might be more similar to=20
> > STOPALL and STOPME than it is to OUTPUT.  (STOPALL stops=20
> > all processes and procedures.)
>=20
> > To me, OUTPUT more complments SHOW than it does STOP,=20
>=20
> > I'm also wondering if WAITUNTIL would be better placed with=20
> > IF and IFELSE or with WHEN, rather than with STOPALL and=20
> > STOPME.  I don't understand the logic of its current=20
> > placement.  As I understand it, it pauses a procedure until=20
> > a condition is met, but it doesn't stop a procedure or=20
> > process altogether as STOPALL and STOPME do.  It is=20
> > constantly checking to see if the condition has been met,=20
> > as WHEN does.
>=20
> > So then why don't we place WHEN with WAITUNTIL, STOPALL,=20
> > and STOPME, instead of with LAUNCH and FOREVER and CANCEL? =20
> > Or perhaps we should place all of them in the same box?
>=20
> Daniel wrote:
>=20
> > I think that what I want to show by placing STOP and OUTPUT=20
> > together and STOPALL and STOPME together and both pairs in=20
> > different categories is that the first pair is used in one=20
> > set of situations and the second pair in another set of=20
> > situations.
> >=20
> > STOP and OUTPUT do not stop processes. They only stop the=20
> > execution of the current procedure and return.
> >=20
> > STOPME and STOPALL do stop whole processes.
>=20
> > WHEN, LAUNCH and FOREVER all of them launch a parallel process.
> >=20
> > WHEN does it to check a condition.
> > FOREVER does it to repeat something forever.
> > while LAUNCH simply does it
> >=20
> > all deal with parallel process and I think it is worth making
> > it clear that, while both IF and WHEN both check for a condition,
> > there is a fundamental difference between them that one needs
> > to know to apply one or the other effectively. This difference
> > makes WHEN go with FOREVER and LAUNCH and not with IF and IFELSE
>=20
> > WHEN starts a parallel process. While WAITUNTIL does not.
> > WAITUNTIL, STOPALL, and STOPME are about pausing a process or=20
> > stopping a process altogether.=20
>=20
> Wendy wrote:
>=20
> > I don't see why certain primitives placed in the "graphics"=20
> > section wouldn't be just as appropriate in the "objects"=20
> > section.  Why is "stamptext" with objects but "stamp" is=20
> > with graphics, for instance?  They both involve stamping an=20
> > object onto the background of a page.  Why aren't other=20
> > primitives relating to turtles located with objects instead=20
> > of graphics?
>=20
> Daniel writes:
>=20
> Here are other possible issues where we need new insights:
>=20
> Where should ONREADLINE be?
>=20
> What about SETFOOTER?
>=20
> What's the difference between IMPORTTEXT and LOADTEXT,
> EXPORTTEXT and SAVETEXT? Are they ok under Disk Access?
> Shouldn't they be under Input/Output? Isn't Disk Access
> a form of Input/Output?
>=20
> Shouldn't SAVEPROJECT and GETPROJECT be together?
>=20
> Under Assigning, should it be:
>=20
> thing         make
>               name
> name?         names
>=20
> instead of what it is now:
>=20
> make          thing
> name          name?
> names
>=20
> ?
>=20
>=20
> Should RUN and PARSE appear together?
>=20
> Where should LISTEN go?
>=20
>=20
> I guess that's too many questions... :)
>=20
> Daniel
> OpenWorld Learning (OWL)
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> MWForum mailing list
> MWForum@lists.mathcats.com
> http://lists.mathcats.com/mailman/listinfo/mwforum
> Attachments archived at:
> http://www.mathcats.com/mwforum/attachments.html
> To unsubscribe or for administrative questions contact=20
> mailto:mwforum-admin@lists.mathcats.com
> 
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<BODY>
<DIV>Hi guys ~ </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I'm really impressed! =
You're really=20
looking deeply at the basic structure of MW.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The PDF is a great =
start, far beyond=20
what I'd have expected. The banter between yourselves about how to do it =
is=20
adrenal&nbsp;refreshing.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>As I purused the PDF, I =
made notes=20
with Wordpad, This is what I wrote:</DIV>
<DIV>
give full names (or explanation of =
abbrev.):
bg, setbg, pd, pu, ht, st, cg, tc, sol, eol, =
cf,=20

cb, cu, cd, top,bottom, eot?, cc.
These are important actions. But what newbie =
would=20
suspect that CG means "Clear Graphics"? - a really basic =
function.
And things to add: There is a logo tradition =
that some=20
access to deeper levels is offered. In the =
current=20
versions it's access to DLLs and direct =
memory=20
management.
I personally have no idea how to utilize these =
things.=20
But in another universe of one of the DOS Logos, I was able to get some =
help to=20
be able to bring coordinate data from a digitizer into Logo. This is an =
aspect=20
of Logo to be respected and preserved, whether we personally know how to =
use it=20
or not. Presenting that capability on the Reference Card is an important =

expression of Logo's ability to relate to the rest of the computing=20
world.
Let's be clear what version we're discussing.
Overburdend bookshelf editing has long ago&nbsp;eliminated truly =
early=20
versions of of Logo.&nbsp;I no longer have either&nbsp;Apple&nbsp;II =
Logo, or=20
the Harvard Graphics version.&nbsp;I do still&nbsp;have a Quick =
Reference Card=20
from IBM Logo (DOS), by LCSI, 1983. I also have the complete manual, and =
5.25"=20
floppy for it.&nbsp;I don't have a (working) scanner right now, so I'll =
have to=20
figure out how to send it to you. Interestingly, it has more categories =
than you=20
have, even though it a much simpler system. 
Give me a bit, and I'll figure out how to send it to you.
Regards, Jeff</DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- 
<DIV>From: "Daniel Ajoy" &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:dajoy@openworldlearning.org">dajoy@openworldlearning.org</A>&gt;</DIV>
<DIV>To: &lt;<A=20
href=3D"mailto:mwforum@lists.mathcats.com">mwforum@lists.mathcats.com</A>&gt;</DIV>
<DIV>Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 4:38=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV>Subject: [MWForum]MicroWorlds Reference =

Card</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>&gt; Hi everybody, &gt; &gt; Based on Jeff Knope =
original idea=20
Wendy and I decided to &gt; compose a simple MicroWorlds Reference =
Card. We=20
adopted &gt; most of the original LCSI categories and put under them =
the=20
 &gt; commands listed in two-columns tables. Wendy and I don't =
 &gt; agree=20
on some of the positions of some commands. We would &gt; like to =
hear ideas=20
on how to improve it. &gt; &gt; The 22KB PDF document is =
at: &gt;=20
 &gt; <A=20
href=3D"http://mia.openworldlearning.org/resources/mw_refcard.pdf"><FONT =

face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://mia.openworldlearning.org/resources/mw_refcard.pdf=
</A> <FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Wendy wrote: &gt; =
 &gt;=20
&gt;&nbsp; I think it should include every primitive, yes, because =
 &gt; &gt;=20
part of the point of it would be to call attention to &gt; &gt;=20
often-underutilized primitives in the various categories. &gt; =
 &gt; &gt;=20
I see that you (and LCSI) have placed CC in the "screen &gt; &gt;=20
management" section but it doesn't affect anything on the &gt; &gt; =
project=20
page, just the command center. Some of the other &gt; &gt; =
primitives in=20
that category also don't seem to affect the &gt; &gt; =
"screen."&nbsp;=20
Perhaps the category might be better named &gt; &gt; "project=20
management"... &gt; &gt; &gt; why isn't STOP listed with STOPALL =
and=20
STOPME?&nbsp; &gt; &gt; &gt; For instance, to me it would make =
sense to=20
place "WHEN" &gt; &gt; somewhat near "IF" and "IFELSE" or even in =
the same=20
box.&nbsp; &gt; &gt; Daniel wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt; I'll =
place it=20
with CC on a separate category. &gt; &gt; &gt; STOP stops the =
current=20
procedure and returns. OUTPUT stops &gt; &gt; the current procedure =
and=20
returns a value. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; STOPALL stops all =
"processes".=20
STOPME stops this process. &gt; &gt; WAITUNTIL pauses this =
process. &gt;=20
 &gt; Wendy wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt; I know some teachers use =
WHEN and IF=20
to fulfill similar needs &gt; &gt; &gt; I did not realize until =
you=20
replied that OUTPUT stops the &gt; &gt; current procedure; I only =
knew of=20
its value-returning &gt; &gt; function.&nbsp; But STOP does not =
return=20
anything, as far as I &gt; &gt; understand.&nbsp; So I still think =
STOP=20
might be more similar to &gt; &gt; STOPALL and STOPME than it is to=20
OUTPUT.&nbsp; (STOPALL stops &gt; &gt; all processes and=20
procedures.) &gt; &gt; &gt; To me, OUTPUT more complments SHOW =
than it=20
does STOP, &gt; &gt; &gt; I'm also wondering if WAITUNTIL would =
be=20
better placed with &gt; &gt; IF and IFELSE or with WHEN, rather than =
with=20
STOPALL and &gt; &gt; STOPME.&nbsp; I don't understand the logic of =
its=20
current &gt; &gt; placement.&nbsp; As I understand it, it pauses a =
procedure=20
until &gt; &gt; a condition is met, but it doesn't stop a procedure =
or=20
 &gt; &gt; process altogether as STOPALL and STOPME do.&nbsp; It is =
 &gt;=20
&gt; constantly checking to see if the condition has been met, &gt; =
&gt; as=20
WHEN does. &gt; &gt; &gt; So then why don't we place WHEN with =
WAITUNTIL,=20
STOPALL, &gt; &gt; and STOPME, instead of with LAUNCH and FOREVER =
and=20
CANCEL?&nbsp; &gt; &gt; Or perhaps we should place all of them in =
the same=20
box? &gt; &gt; Daniel wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt; I think that =
what I=20
want to show by placing STOP and OUTPUT &gt; &gt; together and =
STOPALL and=20
STOPME together and both pairs in &gt; &gt; different categories is =
that the=20
first pair is used in one &gt; &gt; set of situations and the second =
pair in=20
another set of &gt; &gt; situations. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; STOP =
and=20
OUTPUT do not stop processes. They only stop the &gt; &gt; execution =
of the=20
current procedure and return. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; STOPME and =
STOPALL do=20
stop whole processes. &gt; &gt; &gt; WHEN, LAUNCH and FOREVER all =
of them=20
launch a parallel process. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; WHEN does it to =
check a=20
condition. &gt; &gt; FOREVER does it to repeat something =
forever. &gt;=20
&gt; while LAUNCH simply does it &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; all deal =
with=20
parallel process and I think it is worth making &gt; &gt; it clear =
that,=20
while both IF and WHEN both check for a condition, &gt; &gt; there is =
a=20
fundamental difference between them that one needs &gt; &gt; to know =
to apply=20
one or the other effectively. This difference &gt; &gt; makes WHEN go =
with=20
FOREVER and LAUNCH and not with IF and IFELSE &gt; &gt; &gt; WHEN =
starts=20
a parallel process. While WAITUNTIL does not. &gt; &gt; WAITUNTIL, =
STOPALL,=20
and STOPME are about pausing a process or &gt; &gt; stopping a =
process=20
altogether. &gt; &gt; Wendy wrote: &gt; &gt; &gt; I don't =
see why=20
certain primitives placed in the "graphics" &gt; &gt; section =
wouldn't be=20
just as appropriate in the "objects" &gt; &gt; section.&nbsp; Why is =

"stamptext" with objects but "stamp" is <BR>&gt; &gt; with graphics, for =

instance?&nbsp; They both involve stamping an &gt; &gt; object onto =
the=20
background of a page.&nbsp; Why aren't other &gt; &gt; primitives =
relating=20
to turtles located with objects instead &gt; &gt; of =
graphics? &gt;=20
 &gt; Daniel writes: &gt; &gt; Here are other possible issues =
where we=20
need new insights: &gt; &gt; Where should ONREADLINE be? &gt; =
 &gt;=20
What about SETFOOTER? &gt; &gt; What's the difference between =
IMPORTTEXT=20
and LOADTEXT, &gt; EXPORTTEXT and SAVETEXT? Are they ok under Disk=20
Access? &gt; Shouldn't they be under Input/Output? Isn't Disk =
Access &gt;=20
a form of Input/Output? &gt; &gt; Shouldn't SAVEPROJECT and =
GETPROJECT be=20
together? &gt; &gt; Under Assigning, should it be: &gt; =
 &gt;=20
thing&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; make &gt;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;=20
name &gt; name?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
names &gt;=20
 &gt; instead of what it is now: &gt; &gt;=20
make&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; thing &gt; =

name&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; name?<BR>&gt; =

names<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Should RUN and PARSE =
appear=20
together?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Where should LISTEN go?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; =
<BR>&gt; I=20
guess that's too many questions... :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Daniel<BR>&gt; =
OpenWorld=20
Learning (OWL)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;=20
_______________________________________________<BR>&gt; MWForum mailing=20
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