[frers-list]Steering on the Frers 33
Arthur Kelley
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:36:09 -0500
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Frankly (no pun intended) the hardest part was getting the old radial off the rudder post. The stainless steel bolts were frozen into the aluminum and no amount of penetrating oil, blow torch, or pneumatic wrench would free them up. Finally ended up cutting the bolts with a cutting wheel and prying the radial off. This process took me 6 or 8 weekends of effort. I was trying real hard to save that radial.
I had 2 issues with Edson. First they shipped the pedestal with a tapered shaft for the wheel rather than straight shaft to match the original wheel. They offered me a replacement wheel at wholesale cost so as not to have to return the pedestal - but I had just finished lacing the leather cover on the old - and was in no mood to go through that again, much less add additional cost to the project.
Once that was straightened out, I discovered they machined the tiller arm with the rudder post key in the wrong position. They were so embarrassed by this second foul-up that they just shipped me a corrected one rather than attempting to modify the original. I still have that part as well.
Once I had all the right parts - tiller arm, pedestal, compatible wheel, the installation was a snap. I had to enlarge the hole in the cockpit sole (I used a saber saw), and I may have had to drill some new bolt holes - but not sure anymore. Check dimensions here http://www.edsonmarine.com/sailboat/pdf/06-07.pdf From there it is simply a matter of bolting the tiller arm to the rudder post, and installing the drag link with a nut at each end - adjusting the length - and it's all done. The real installation was probably only an hour or two.
Hidden costs - The diameter of the pedestal is slightly larger than the original so you need a new guard top plate and an adapter for the binnacle. I made my own adapter out of a sheet of "Starboard" plastic from West. The bolts through the deck need to be shorter than the originals - at least for me - since I had a thick wood backing plate on the old that was replaced with a thinner metal ring supplied by Edson.
The wheel control is very smooth under light load, and under high loads it just stiffens up so that you can let go of the wheel and not worry about the boat spinning away.
For me, the tiller was almost dangerous in a heavy breeze, and backing down was risking life and limb as the rudder tried to slam the tiller into the helmsman. Now the boat is completely under control with no kickback even at a good clip in reverse. And to think I originally preferred the idea of a tiller.
Let me know if you need any other information,
Art
----- Original Message -----
From: Albert Francis X NSSC
To: 'frers-list@lists.frers33.com'
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 6:26 AM
Subject: RE: [frers-list]Steering on the Frers 33
Arthur,
How hard was the change over to the CDI system and is that the system that has the drive shaft from the base of the pedestal to the rudder post?
Thanks,
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: Arthur Kelley [mailto:akelley@optonline.net]
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 19:44
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Steering on the Frers 33
My 1990 Frers was delivered with an Edson cable steering system. A previous owner changed it over to tiller steering, and then I changed it over to a more modern Edson CDi steering system.
Bottom line, I have the original pedestal (less compass & guard), sheaves, cable & chain, and a 1 year old radius which mounts on the rudder post and carries the cable. If anyone needs parts, I'm sure we can make a deal. Hmm, maybe I should post that on the web site!
Art
"Brilliant" #55
----- Original Message -----
From: Albert Francis X NSSC
To: 'frers-list@lists.frers33.com'
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 12:00 PM
Subject: [frers-list]Steering on the Frers 33
Wanted to give everyone a heads up on the steering for the Frers 33.
Not sure about all model years but on my 1987 Frers the wheel and steering system appears to be a product of Yacht Specialties Equipment. That company went out of business in 1989 and there is no longer anyone who sells those products. Fortunately Edson sells replacement parts for at least some of the steering that will work. I broke off one of the sheaves on a race two weeks ago and contacted Edson. They identified the replacement part below which I purchased. It was not an exact replacement and required that I enlarge the opening under the pedestal along with drilling out the holes in the replacement part. The original holes are 6 1/2 inches on center and the bolt holes in the replacement part were 6 inches on center. There was enough space to drill the holes out to the required 6 & 1/2 inches on center so it would bolt up to the pedestal. Edson was very helpful in identifying exactly what piece I needed and what would work.
A cast aluminum backing plate with or without sheaves. The current product can be viewed on line or in a hard copy of our current catalog. It is fig. #776AL-4AL.
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Frankly (no pun intended) the hardest part was
getting the old radial off the rudder post. The stainless steel bolts were
frozen into the aluminum and no amount of penetrating oil, blow torch, or
pneumatic wrench would free them up. Finally ended up cutting the bolts
with a cutting wheel and prying the radial off. This process took me
6 or 8 weekends of effort. I was trying real hard to save that
radial.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I had 2 issues with Edson. First they shipped
the pedestal with a tapered shaft for the wheel rather than straight shaft to
match the original wheel. They offered me a replacement wheel at wholesale
cost so as not to have to return the pedestal - but I had just finished lacing
the leather cover on the old - and was in no mood to go through that again, much
less add additional cost to the project.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Once that was straightened out, I discovered they
machined the tiller arm with the rudder post key in the wrong position.
They were so embarrassed by this second foul-up that they just shipped me a
corrected one rather than attempting to modify the original. I still have
that part as well.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Once I had all the right parts - tiller arm,
pedestal, compatible wheel, the installation was a snap. I had to enlarge
the hole in the cockpit sole (I used a saber saw), and I may have had to drill
some new bolt holes - but not sure anymore. Check dimensions here <A
href="http://www.edsonmarine.com/sailboat/pdf/06-07.pdf">http://www.edsonmarine.com/sailboat/pdf/06-07.pdf</A>
>From there it is simply a matter of bolting the tiller arm to the rudder post,
and installing the drag link with a nut at each end - adjusting the length - and
it's all done. The real installation was probably only an hour or
two.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hidden costs - The diameter of the pedestal is
slightly larger than the original so you need a new guard top plate and an
adapter for the binnacle. I made my own adapter out of a sheet of
"Starboard" plastic from West. The bolts through the deck need to be
shorter than the originals - at least for me - since I had a thick wood backing
plate on the old that was replaced with a thinner metal ring supplied by
Edson.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The wheel control is very smooth under light load,
and under high loads it just stiffens up so that you can let go of the
wheel and not worry about the boat spinning away. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For me, the tiller was almost dangerous in a heavy
breeze, and backing down was risking life and limb as the rudder tried to slam
the tiller into the helmsman. Now the boat is completely under control
with no kickback even at a good clip in reverse. And to think I originally
preferred the idea of a tiller. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Let me know if you need any other
information,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Art</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=AlbertFX@NAVSEA.NAVY.MIL
href="mailto:AlbertFX@NAVSEA.NAVY.MIL">Albert Francis X NSSC</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=frers-list@lists.frers33.com
href="mailto:'frers-list@lists.frers33.com'">'frers-list@lists.frers33.com'</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 16, 2004 6:26
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [frers-list]Steering on the
Frers 33</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle19><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Arthur,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle19><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle19><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">How
hard was the change over to the CDI system and is that the system that has the
drive shaft from the base of the pedestal to the rudder
post?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle19><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle19><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle19><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Frank
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Arthur
Kelley [mailto:akelley@optonline.net]<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, November 15, 2004
19:44<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <A
href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [frers-list]Steering on the
Frers 33</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My 1990 Frers
was delivered with an Edson cable steering system. A previous owner
changed it over to tiller steering, and then I changed it over to a more
modern Edson CDi steering system.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Bottom
line, I have the original pedestal (less compass & guard), sheaves, cable
& chain, and a 1 year old radius which mounts on the rudder post and
carries the cable. If anyone needs parts, I'm sure we can make a deal.
Hmm, maybe I should post that on the web site!</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Art</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">"Brilliant"
#55</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV
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Message ----- </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
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<DIV style="font-color: black">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=AlbertFX@NAVSEA.NAVY.MIL href="mailto:AlbertFX@NAVSEA.NAVY.MIL">Albert
Francis X NSSC</A> </SPAN></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT>
<P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
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face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=frers-list@lists.frers33.com
href="mailto:'frers-list@lists.frers33.com'">'frers-list@lists.frers33.com'</A>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
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face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Monday, November
15, 2004 12:00 PM</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
[frers-list]Steering on the Frers 33</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 39.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><SPAN
class=EmailStyle16><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Wanted
to give everyone a heads up on the steering for the Frers
33.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 39.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><SPAN
class=EmailStyle16><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 39.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><SPAN
class=EmailStyle16><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Not
sure about all model years but on my 1987 Frers the wheel and steering system
appears to be a product of </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Yacht
Specialties Equipment.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>That
company went out of business in 1989 and there is no longer anyone who sells
those products.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Fortunately Edson
sells replacement parts for at least some of the steering that will work.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I broke off one of the sheaves on a
race two weeks ago and contacted Edson.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>They identified the replacement part below which I purchased.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It was not an exact replacement and
required that I enlarge the opening under the pedestal along with drilling out
the holes in the replacement part.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>The original holes are 6 1/2 inches on center and the bolt holes in the
replacement part were 6 inches on center.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>There was enough space to drill the
holes out to the required 6 & 1/2 inches on center so it would bolt up to
the pedestal.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Edson was very
helpful in identifying exactly what piece I needed and what would work. <SPAN
class=EmailStyle16><FONT
color=navy><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 39.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><SPAN
class=EmailStyle16><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 39.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><SPAN
class=EmailStyle16><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 39.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">A
cast aluminum backing plate with or without sheaves. The current product can
be viewed on line or in a hard copy of our current catalog. It is fig.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>#776AL-4AL.</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 39.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 4.0pt"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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