[frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Kurt Hudson
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:51:23 -0500
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Eclipse is hull #29 MFG 1987
_____
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Dan Boyd
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:39 PM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
WildThing is MFG in 1988.
Dan Boyd
Biogen Idec Inc
Tel: 1.617.679.2274
Fax: 1.617.679.3599
"Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01" <francis.albert@navy.mil>
Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
02/03/2006 03:14 PM
Please respond to
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
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Subject
RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if anyone
knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what year was
your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been built in the
same year as mine.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X
CIV SEA 01
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob,
My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water
getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there was
a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would suppose the
keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions someone
mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12
inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull thing
seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right at
that crack. Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and
then grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol.
They said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove the bolts and
lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their experience with this
process has taught them a couple of things. First most boats had the keels
joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire
top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had
boats in the lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the
keel up being the 5200.
If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
Thanks,
Frank Albert
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
Bob
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've
read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to
add, based on my experience:
The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the stringer
that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the keel is
bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know for certain
if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may not have wood in
the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a potential structural weak
point. If the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows separation you
will get a leak that will not only contribute to deterioration of the wood
stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: the reason is that you are not
seeing separation between keel and hull, but a crack in the sump which, over
time and load can create a tear in the hull. This is one reason a fix from
the inside is desirable and that you should look carefully at the leading
edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem
sounds. The other thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice
corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between
stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several
of the keel bolts.
Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and race.
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in hull
or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats?
2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is this
reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull design
or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
I live in the Chicago area
Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look for"
Bob
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Eclipse is hull #29 MFG =
1987<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
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font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
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face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Dan Boyd<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, February =
03, 2006
3:39 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: =
[frers-list]questions
on a purchase of a frers 33</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'>WildThing is MFG in 1988.</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=3D2 face=3Dsans-serif><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Dan
Boyd<br>
Biogen Idec Inc<br>
Tel: 1.617.679.2274<br>
Fax: 1.617.679.3599<br>
</span></font><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span =
style=3D'font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;font-weight:bold'>"Albert, =
<st1:place
w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Francis</st1:PlaceName> =
<st1:PlaceName
w:st=3D"on">X</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceName =
w:st=3D"on">CIV</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType
w:st=3D"on">SEA</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> 01"
<francis.albert@navy.mil></span></font></b><font size=3D1
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<font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span =
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<p><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span =
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</td>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 face=3Dsans-serif><span =
style=3D'font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>RE: [frers-list]questions on a =
purchase of a
frers 33</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
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<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>Alright big question is where =
all these
boats made the same and if anyone knows of a different version. =
Allen
your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built? Wild thing =
was
number 37 and may have been built in the same year as =
mine.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:#993366'> </span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>Thanks,</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>Frank Albert</span></font> =
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:#993366'> </span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original
Message-----<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'><br>
From:</span></b> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]<b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01<b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'><br>
Sent:</span></b> Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09<b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'><br>
To:</span></b> frers-list@lists.frers33.com<b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'><br>
Subject:</span></b> RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers =
33</span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>Bob,</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>My boat may have that new crack problem. I =
noticed last
summer water getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they =
hauled the
boat there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you =
would
suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
discussions
someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 =
to 12
inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull =
thing
seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right =
at that
crack. Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts =
and
then grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using =
alcohol.
They said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove =
the bolts
and lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their experience =
with
this process has taught them a couple of things. First most boats =
had the
keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over =
the
entire top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not want to let =
go.
They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours with the =
only
thing holding the keel up being the 5200.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to =
hear about
it.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>Thanks,</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>Frank Albert</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original
Message-----<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'><br>
From:</span></b> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]<b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Allan Heyward<b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'><br>
Sent:</span></b> Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03<b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'><br>
To:</span></b> frers-list@lists.frers33.com<b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'><br>
Subject:</span></b> RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers =
33</span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>Bob</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the =
<st1:place
w:st=3D"on">Chesapeake Bay</st1:place>. I’ve read =
Frank’s
response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to add, =
based on
my experience:</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a =
void
below the stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to =
which
the keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I
don’t know for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I =
understand
some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it =
creates
a potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel =
at the
hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute =
to
deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: =
the
reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, but =
a crack
in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in the hull. =
This
is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and that you should =
look
carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is =
not as
traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to check is the =
keel
bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there =
was a
mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial
erosion of several of the keel bolts.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a =
delight to
sail and race.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font> <br>
<font color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M.
Heyward, Jr.</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, =
P.C.</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original
Message-----<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'><br>
From:</span></b> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Stephen, Robert<b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'><br>
Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM<b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'><br>
To:</span></b> frers-list@lists.frers33.com<b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'><br>
Subject:</span></b> [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers =
33</span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I
am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.</span></font> =
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>1)</span></font><font
size=3D1><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'> =
</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can anyone
update me as to where any specific coring issues in hull or the deck =
area that
might be consistent with most of these boats?</span></font> =
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>2)</span></font><font
size=3D1><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'> =
</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If I wanted
to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is this reasonable or does =
the
installation look like a morphidite?</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>3)</span></font><font
size=3D1><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'> =
</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any
questionable electrical to look for?</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>4)</span></font><font
size=3D1><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'> =
</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any concern
on the design as it relates to the keel to hull design or attachment. =
Separate
from a bad grounding.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I
live in the <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Chicago</st1:place></st1:City>
area</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Thanks
for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look
for”</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bob</span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:blue'><br>
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