[frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs
Arthur Kelley
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Sat, 04 Feb 2006 22:41:03 -0500
Allan,
If you send me the pics along with any descriptions you can muster, I'll put
something together and link it to the FAQ page. I think this would be an
outstanding contribution to the class.
Thanks,
Art
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan M Heyward" <heyward@chllh.com>
To: <frers-list@lists.frers33.com>; <frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs
>
> Frank
>
> If your keel is mounted flush to the hull, it sounds like there was a
> fundamental change in construction somewhere along the way, resulting,
> I'd guess, in far shallower bilge than I have. I'd be happy to forward
> the pictures from my 2 adventures with the keel root (keel removal
> in '02 and the leak repair in '05) detailing the construction of #14,
> to the website or archival purposes and the common weal. Let me know.
>
> Allan
>>
>>
>> Allen,
>> My yard had to drop the keel last year because of a grounding that
> looked like it kicked the keel off to port by about 5 degrees.
> Additionally I had a crack in the hull just forward of where the
> leading edge of the keel joins the hull. They put the hull up on jack
> stands and they said it normally takes about 5 hours of wailing on the
> top of the keel bolts with a sledge hammer to loosen it. In my case
> they took three wacks and it dropped right off. So much for 5200.
>> Frank Wittosch
>> Pepperke 2.0
>>
>> -------------- Original message --------------
>> From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
>>
>> > Send frers-list mailing list submissions to
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>> > than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."
>> >
>> >
>> > Today's Topics:
>> >
>> > 1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV
> SEA 01)
>> > 2. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV
> SEA 01)
>> >
>> > --__--__--
>> >
>> > Message: 1
>> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:08:37 -0500
>> > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"
>> > To:
>> > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> >
>> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>> >
>> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94
>> > Content-Type: text/plain;
>> > charset="iso-8859-1"
>> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> >
>> > Bob,
>> > =20
>> > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer
> water =
>> > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat
> there =
>> > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
>> > suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
>> > discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the
> keel =
>> > like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping
> out. =
>> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the
> keel and =
>> > hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year
> is =
>> > to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it
> with =
>> > 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then
> =
>> > next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel
> by =
>> > about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them
> a =
>> > couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull
> =
>> > just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the
> keel. =
>> > Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in
> the =
>> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
> up =
>> > being the 5200.
>> > =20
>> > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
>> > =20
>> > Thanks,
>> > Frank Albert
>> > =20
>> > =20
>> > =20
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan
> Heyward
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
>> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > =20
>> > Bob
>> > =20
>> > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay.
> I've =
>> > read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of
> =
>> > things to add, based on my experience:
>> > =20
>> > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the
> =
>> > stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which
> the =
>> > keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't
> know =
>> > for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some
> may =
>> > not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
>> > potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at
> the =
>> > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only
> contribute =
>> > to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the
> bilge: =
>> > the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and
> hull, =
>> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
> in =
>> > the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and
> =
>> > that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at
> the =
>> > hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other
> =
>> > thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on
> at =
>> > least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the
> =
>> > bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the
> keel =
>> > bolts.
>> > =20
>> > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail
> and =
>> > race.
>> > =20
>> > Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
>> > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
>> > 804-747-4500
>> > =20
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen,
> Robert
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
>> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > =20
>> > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
>> > =20
>> > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
>> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these
> boats?
>> > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
>> > this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
>> > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
>> > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
>> > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
>> > =20
>> > =20
>> > I live in the Chicago area
>> > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to
> look =
>> > for"
>> > =20
>> > Bob
>> > =20
>> >
>> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> _=
>> > ____
>> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
>> > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
>> > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and
> may
>> > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt
> from
>> > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail
> message
>> > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
>> > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are
> hereby
>> > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>> > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in
> error,
>> > please notify us immediately by e-mail at =
>> > legal@weberstephen.com
>> > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
>> >
>> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94
>> > Content-Type: text/html;
>> > charset="iso-8859-1"
>> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> >
>> > > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
>> > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
>> >
>> >
>> > > charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=
>> > b,
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=
>> > boat
>> > may have that new crack problem. =
>> > I
>> > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.>
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =
>> > boat
>> > there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you
> would =
>> > suppose
>> > the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these
> discussions =
>> > someone
>> > mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to
> 12 =
>> > inches)
>> > and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes">
>> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =
>> > keel and
>> > hull joint are right at that crack.> yes">
>> > Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =
>> > then grind
>> > out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol.>
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =
>> > doesn't work
>> > then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the
> keel =
>> > by
>> > about 3 inches. Their =
>> > experience
>> > with this process has taught them a couple of things.> style=3D"mso-
> spacerun:
>> > yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
>> > just this
>> > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.>
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =
>> > want to
>> > let go. They've had boats =
>> > in the
>> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
> up =
>> > being the
>> > 5200.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=
>> > anyone
>> > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =
>> > it.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=
>> > anks,
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=
>> > ank
>> > Albert
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> pan
>> > style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> > yes">
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
>>
>> > From:
>> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
>>
>> > Sent: Thursday, February =
>> > 02, 2006
>> > 12:03
>>
>> > To: =
>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>
>> > Subject: RE: =
>> > [frers-list]questions
>> > on a purchase of a frers 33
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that
> sails =
>> > and
>> > races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've read Frank's =
>> > response on your question
>> > 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =
>> > experience:> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the
> transverse =
>> > stringer
>> > leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading edge
> of the =
>> > keel
>> > sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition into
> the =
>> > hull.
>> > I don't know for certain if this will be true on all boats, =
>> > as I
>> > understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it
> exists,
>> > it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =
>> > edge
>> > of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that
> will =
>> > not only
>> > contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a
> path to =
>> > the
>> > bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between
> keel and =
>> > hull,
>> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
> in =
>> > the
>> > hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
>> > that you
>> > should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull.
> =
>> > The
>> > fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to
> =
>> > check
>> > is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one
> boat =
>> > (mine)
>> > there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that
> caused
>> > substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is
> strong =
>> > as an
>> > ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =
>> > Jr.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =
>> > FEEHAN,
>> > P.C.> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
>> > windowtext'>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DTahoma>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
>> > Message-----
>>
>> > From:
>> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
>>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February =
>> > 01, 2006
>> > 7:02 AM
>>
>> > To: =
>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>
>> > Subject: =
>> > [frers-list]questions on
>> > a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color:
>> > black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
>> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>I am
>> > currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>1)> style=3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
>> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring
> issues =
>> > in
>> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
>> > boats?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>2)> style=3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
>> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a
> tiller is =
>> > this
>> > reasonable or does the installation look like a =
>> > morphidite?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>3)> style=3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
>> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?>
> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>4)> style=3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
>> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to
> hull =
>> > design
>> > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>I live
>> > in the Chicago area> style=3D'color:black;
>> > mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks
>> > for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =
>> > for"> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>Bob> >> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs=
>> > p;
>> > > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> > face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
>> >
> size=3D2>_______________________________________________________________
> _=
>> > _____________
>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
>> This Weber-Stephen Products =
>> > Company e-mail is intended only for
>> the use of the individual or =
>> > entity to which it is addressed and may
>> contain information that is =
>> > privileged, confidential and exempt from
>> disclosure under applicable =
>> > law. If the reader of this e-mail message
>> is not the intended =
>> > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
>> for delivery of the =
>> > message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
>> notified that any =
>> > dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>> communication is =
>> > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
>> please notify =
>> > us immediately by e-mail at >
> href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
>> > color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank
> =
>> > you.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94--
>> >
>> > --__--__--
>> >
>> > Message: 2
>> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:14:30 -0500
>> > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"
>> > To:
>> > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> >
>> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>> >
>> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6
>> > Content-Type: text/plain;
>> > charset="iso-8859-1"
>> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> >
>> > Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if
> =
>> > anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14
> what =
>> > year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have
> been =
>> > built in the same year as mine.
>> > =20
>> > Thanks,
>> > Frank Albert
>> > =20
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert,
> Francis =
>> > X CIV SEA 01
>> > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
>> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > =20
>> > Bob,
>> > =20
>> > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer
> water =
>> > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat
> there =
>> > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
>> > suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
>> > discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the
> keel =
>> > like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping
> out. =
>> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the
> keel and =
>> > hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year
> is =
>> > to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it
> with =
>> > 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then
> =
>> > next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel
> by =
>> > about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them
> a =
>> > couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull
> =
>> > just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the
> keel. =
>> > Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in
> the =
>> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
> up =
>> > being the 5200.
>> > =20
>> > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
>> > =20
>> > Thanks,
>> > Frank Albert
>> > =20
>> > =20
>> > =20
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan
> Heyward
>> > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
>> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > =20
>> > Bob
>> > =20
>> > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay.
> I've =
>> > read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of
> =
>> > things to add, based on my experience:
>> > =20
>> > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the
> =
>> > stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which
> the =
>> > keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't
> know =
>> > for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some
> may =
>> > not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
>> > potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at
> the =
>> > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only
> contribute =
>> > to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the
> bilge: =
>> > the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and
> hull, =
>> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
> in =
>> > the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and
> =
>> > that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at
> the =
>> > hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other
> =
>> > thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on
> at =
>> > least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the
> =
>> > bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the
> keel =
>> > bolts.
>> > =20
>> > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail
> and =
>> > race.
>> > =20
>> > Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
>> > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
>> > 804-747-4500
>> > =20
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen,
> Robert
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
>> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
>> > =20
>> > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
>> > =20
>> > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
>> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these
> boats?
>> > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
>> > this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
>> > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
>> > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
>> > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
>> > =20
>> > =20
>> > I live in the Chicago area
>> > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to
> look =
>> > for"
>> > =20
>> > Bob
>> > =20
>> >
>> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> _=
>> > ____
>> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
>> > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
>> > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and
> may
>> > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt
> from
>> > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail
> message
>> > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
>> > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are
> hereby
>> > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>> > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in
> error,
>> > please notify us immediately by e-mail at =
>> > legal@weberstephen.com
>> > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
>> >
>> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6
>> > Content-Type: text/html;
>> > charset="iso-8859-1"
>> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> >
>> > > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
>> > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
>> >
>> >
>> > > charset=3Diso-8859-1">
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D"#993366"
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
>> > Arial'>Alright big question is where all these boats made the same
> and =
>> > if
>> > anyone knows of a different version.> yes">
>> > Allen your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built?>
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Wild thing was number 37 and =
>> > may have
>> > been built in the same year as mine.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D"#993366"
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
>> > Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D"#993366"
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
>> > Arial'>Thanks,
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D"#993366"
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
>> > Arial'>Frank Albert
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3D"#993366"
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:
>> > Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
>>
>> > From:
>> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV =
>> > SEA 01
>>
>> > Sent: Friday, February =
>> > 03, 2006
>> > 7:09
>>
>> > To: =
>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>
>> > Subject: RE: =
>> > [frers-list]questions
>> > on a purchase of a frers 33
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=
>> > b,
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=
>> > boat
>> > may have that new crack problem. =
>> > I
>> > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.>
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =
>> > boat
>> > there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you
> would =
>> > suppose
>> > the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these
> discussions =
>> > someone
>> > mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to
> 12 =
>> > inches)
>> > and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes">
>> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =
>> > keel and
>> > hull joint are right at that crack.> yes">
>> > Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =
>> > then
>> > grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using =
>> > alcohol.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =
>> > doesn't work
>> > then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the
> keel =
>> > by
>> > about 3 inches. Their =
>> > experience
>> > with this process has taught them a couple of things.> style=3D"mso-
> spacerun:
>> > yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
>> > just this
>> > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.>
> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =
>> > want to
>> > let go. They've had boats =
>> > in the
>> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
> up =
>> > being the
>> > 5200.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=
>> > anyone
>> > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =
>> > it.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=
>> > anks,
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=
>> > ank
>> > Albert
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> pan
>> > style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
> size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
>> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
>>
>> > From: =
>> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On
>> > Behalf Of Allan Heyward
>>
>> > Sent: Thursday, February =
>> > 02, 2006
>> > 12:03
>>
>> > To: =
>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>
>> > Subject: RE: =
>> > [frers-list]questions
>> > on a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>> !
> supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that
> sails =
>> > and
>> > races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've read Frank's =
>> > response on your question
>> > 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =
>> > experience:> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the
> transverse
>> > stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the
> leading =
>> > edge of
>> > the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of
> transition =
>> > into the
>> > hull. I don't know for certain if this will be true on all =
>> > boats, as I
>> > understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it
> exists,
>> > it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =
>> > edge
>> > of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that
> will =
>> > not only
>> > contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a
> path to =
>> > the
>> > bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between
> keel and =
>> > hull,
>> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
> in =
>> > the
>> > hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
>> > that you
>> > should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull.
> =
>> > The
>> > fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to
> =
>> > check
>> > is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one
> boat =
>> > (mine)
>> > there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that
> caused
>> > substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is
> strong =
>> > as an
>> > ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =
>> > Jr.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =
>> > FEEHAN,
>> > P.C.> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
>> > windowtext'>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'font-size:
>> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DTahoma>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
>> > Message-----
>>
>> > From:
>> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
>> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D'font-
> weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
>>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February =
>> > 01, 2006
>> > 7:02 AM
>>
>> > To: =
>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>
>> > Subject: =
>> > [frers-list]questions on
>> > a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color:
>> > black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
>> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>I am
>> > currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>1)> style=3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
>> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring
> issues =
>> > in
>> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
>> > boats?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>2)> style=3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
>> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a
> tiller is =
>> > this reasonable
>> > or does the installation look like a morphidite?> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>3)> style=3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
>> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?>
> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
> face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>4)> style=3D'font-size:
>> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
>> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
> size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
>> > color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to
> hull =
>> > design
>> > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>I live
>> > in the Chicago area> style=3D'color:black;
>> > mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks
>> > for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look =
>> > for"> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
> alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'>Bob> >> color=3Dblack>>
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>> > color=3Dblack
>> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
> family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs=
>> > p;
>> > > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
>> > /p>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> > face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
>> >
> size=3D2>_______________________________________________________________
> _=
>> > _____________
>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
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> href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
>> > color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank
> =
>> > you.
>>
>> >
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>> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6--
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>> >
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>
> --
> Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
> Cook Heyward Lonnes Lee & Hopper, P.C.
> P.O. Box 29629
> Richmond VA, 23242
> 804.747.4500
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