[frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #166 - 2 msgs
Allan M Heyward
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Sat, 4 Feb 2006 18:59:39 -0500
Frank
If your keel is mounted flush to the hull, it sounds like there was a
fundamental change in construction somewhere along the way, resulting,
I'd guess, in far shallower bilge than I have. I'd be happy to forward
the pictures from my 2 adventures with the keel root (keel removal
in '02 and the leak repair in '05) detailing the construction of #14,
to the website or archival purposes and the common weal. Let me know.
Allan
>
>
> Allen,
> My yard had to drop the keel last year because of a grounding that
looked like it kicked the keel off to port by about 5 degrees.
Additionally I had a crack in the hull just forward of where the
leading edge of the keel joins the hull. They put the hull up on jack
stands and they said it normally takes about 5 hours of wailing on the
top of the keel bolts with a sledge hammer to loosen it. In my case
they took three wacks and it dropped right off. So much for 5200.
> Frank Wittosch
> Pepperke 2.0
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
>
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> > than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV
SEA 01)
> > 2. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Albert, Francis X CIV
SEA 01)
> >
> > --__--__--
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 07:08:37 -0500
> > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"
> > To:
> > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> >
> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> >
> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94
> > Content-Type: text/plain;
> > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> > Bob,
> > =20
> > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer
water =
> > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat
there =
> > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
> > suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
> > discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the
keel =
> > like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping
out. =
> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the
keel and =
> > hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year
is =
> > to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it
with =
> > 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then
=
> > next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel
by =
> > about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them
a =
> > couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull
=
> > just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the
keel. =
> > Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in
the =
> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
up =
> > being the 5200.
> > =20
> > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
> > =20
> > Thanks,
> > Frank Albert
> > =20
> > =20
> > =20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan
Heyward
> > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > =20
> > Bob
> > =20
> > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay.
I've =
> > read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of
=
> > things to add, based on my experience:
> > =20
> > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the
=
> > stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which
the =
> > keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't
know =
> > for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some
may =
> > not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
> > potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at
the =
> > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only
contribute =
> > to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the
bilge: =
> > the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and
hull, =
> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
in =
> > the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and
=
> > that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at
the =
> > hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other
=
> > thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on
at =
> > least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the
=
> > bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the
keel =
> > bolts.
> > =20
> > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail
and =
> > race.
> > =20
> > Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
> > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
> > 804-747-4500
> > =20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen,
Robert
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > =20
> > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
> > =20
> > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these
boats?
> > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
> > this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
> > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
> > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
> > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
> > =20
> > =20
> > I live in the Chicago area
> > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to
look =
> > for"
> > =20
> > Bob
> > =20
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________
_=
> > ____
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
> > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and
may
> > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt
from
> > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail
message
> > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are
hereby
> > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in
error,
> > please notify us immediately by e-mail at =
> > legal@weberstephen.com
> > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
> >
> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94
> > Content-Type: text/html;
> > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> > > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
> > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
> >
> >
> > > charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=
> > b,
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=
> > boat
> > may have that new crack problem. =
> > I
> > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.>
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =
> > boat
> > there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you
would =
> > suppose
> > the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these
discussions =
> > someone
> > mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to
12 =
> > inches)
> > and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes">
> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =
> > keel and
> > hull joint are right at that crack.> yes">
> > Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =
> > then grind
> > out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol.>
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =
> > doesn't work
> > then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the
keel =
> > by
> > about 3 inches. Their =
> > experience
> > with this process has taught them a couple of things.> style=3D"mso-
spacerun:
> > yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
> > just this
> > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.>
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =
> > want to
> > let go. They've had boats =
> > in the
> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
up =
> > being the
> > 5200.
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=
> > anyone
> > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =
> > it.
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=
> > anks,
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=
> > ank
> > Albert
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> pan
> > style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> > yes">
> >
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
>
> > From:
> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-
weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Allan Heyward
>
> > Sent: Thursday, February =
> > 02, 2006
> > 12:03
>
> > To: =
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> > Subject: RE: =
> > [frers-list]questions
> > on a purchase of a frers 33
>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that
sails =
> > and
> > races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read Frank’s =
> > response on your question
> > 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =
> > experience:> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the
transverse =
> > stringer
> > leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading edge
of the =
> > keel
> > sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition into
the =
> > hull.
> > I don’t know for certain if this will be true on all boats, =
> > as I
> > understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it
exists,
> > it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =
> > edge
> > of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that
will =
> > not only
> > contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a
path to =
> > the
> > bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between
keel and =
> > hull,
> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
in =
> > the
> > hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
> > that you
> > should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull.
=
> > The
> > fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to
=
> > check
> > is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one
boat =
> > (mine)
> > there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that
caused
> > substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is
strong =
> > as an
> > ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =
> > Jr.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =
> > FEEHAN,
> > P.C.> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
> > windowtext'>
>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DTahoma>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
> > Message-----
>
> > From:
> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D'font-
weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February =
> > 01, 2006
> > 7:02 AM
>
> > To: =
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> > Subject: =
> > [frers-list]questions on
> > a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color:
> > black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>I am
> > currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>1)> style=3D'font-size:
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring
issues =
> > in
> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
> > boats?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>2)> style=3D'font-size:
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a
tiller is =
> > this
> > reasonable or does the installation look like a =
> > morphidite?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>3)> style=3D'font-size:
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?>
color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>4)> style=3D'font-size:
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to
hull =
> > design
> > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>I live
> > in the Chicago area> style=3D'color:black;
> > mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks
> > for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look =
> > for”> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>Bob> >> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs=
> > p;
> > > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> > face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
> >
size=3D2>_______________________________________________________________
_=
> > _____________
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> This Weber-Stephen Products =
> > Company e-mail is intended only for
> the use of the individual or =
> > entity to which it is addressed and may
> contain information that is =
> > privileged, confidential and exempt from
> disclosure under applicable =
> > law. If the reader of this e-mail message
> is not the intended =
> > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> for delivery of the =
> > message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified that any =
> > dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is =
> > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> please notify =
> > us immediately by e-mail at >
href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
> > color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank
=
> > you.
>
> >
> >
> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628BA.90344C94--
> >
> > --__--__--
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:14:30 -0500
> > From: "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01"
> > To:
> > Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> >
> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> >
> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6
> > Content-Type: text/plain;
> > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> > Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if
=
> > anyone knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14
what =
> > year was your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have
been =
> > built in the same year as mine.
> > =20
> > Thanks,
> > Frank Albert
> > =20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert,
Francis =
> > X CIV SEA 01
> > Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09
> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > =20
> > Bob,
> > =20
> > My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer
water =
> > getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat
there =
> > was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would =
> > suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these =
> > discussions someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the
keel =
> > like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping
out. =
> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the
keel and =
> > hull joint are right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year
is =
> > to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it
with =
> > 5200, fairing it using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then
=
> > next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel
by =
> > about 3 inches. Their experience with this process has taught them
a =
> > couple of things. First most boats had the keels joined to the hull
=
> > just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the
keel. =
> > Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had boats in
the =
> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
up =
> > being the 5200.
> > =20
> > If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it.
> > =20
> > Thanks,
> > Frank Albert
> > =20
> > =20
> > =20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan
Heyward
> > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03
> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > =20
> > Bob
> > =20
> > I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay.
I've =
> > read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of
=
> > things to add, based on my experience:
> > =20
> > The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the
=
> > stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which
the =
> > keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't
know =
> > for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some
may =
> > not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a =
> > potential structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at
the =
> > hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only
contribute =
> > to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the
bilge: =
> > the reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and
hull, =
> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
in =
> > the hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and
=
> > that you should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at
the =
> > hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other
=
> > thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on
at =
> > least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between stainless in the
=
> > bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several of the
keel =
> > bolts.
> > =20
> > Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail
and =
> > race.
> > =20
> > Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
> > COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
> > 804-747-4500
> > =20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen,
Robert
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM
> > To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33
> > =20
> > I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.
> > =20
> > 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in =
> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these
boats?
> > 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is =
> > this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite?
> > 3) Any questionable electrical to look for?
> > 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull =
> > design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.
> > =20
> > =20
> > I live in the Chicago area
> > Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to
look =
> > for"
> > =20
> > Bob
> > =20
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________
_=
> > ____
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:
> > This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for
> > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and
may
> > contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt
from
> > disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail
message
> > is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible
> > for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are
hereby
> > notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> > communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in
error,
> > please notify us immediately by e-mail at =
> > legal@weberstephen.com
> > and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you.
> >
> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6
> > Content-Type: text/html;
> > charset="iso-8859-1"
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >
> > > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
> > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
> >
> >
> > > charset=3Diso-8859-1">
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> > color=3D"#993366"
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:
> > Arial'>Alright big question is where all these boats made the same
and =
> > if
> > anyone knows of a different version.> yes">
> > Allen your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built?>
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Wild thing was number 37 and =
> > may have
> > been built in the same year as mine.
>
> >
> >
> > color=3D"#993366"
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:
> > Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3D"#993366"
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:
> > Arial'>Thanks,
>
> >
> >
> > color=3D"#993366"
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:
> > Arial'>Frank Albert
>
> >
> >
> > color=3D"#993366"
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:
> > Arial'>> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
>
> > From:
> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-
weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV =
> > SEA 01
>
> > Sent: Friday, February =
> > 03, 2006
> > 7:09
>
> > To: =
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> > Subject: RE: =
> > [frers-list]questions
> > on a purchase of a frers 33
>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 12.0pt'>> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bo=
> > b,
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>My=
> > boat
> > may have that new crack problem. =
> > I
> > noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area.>
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> This fall when they hauled the =
> > boat
> > there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you
would =
> > suppose
> > the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these
discussions =
> > someone
> > mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to
12 =
> > inches)
> > and water from the bilge was seeping out.> yes">
> > That lower hull thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the =
> > keel and
> > hull joint are right at that crack.> yes">
> > Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and =
> > then
> > grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using =
> > alcohol.> style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> They said if that =
> > doesn't work
> > then next year they will remove the bolts and lift the boat off the
keel =
> > by
> > about 3 inches. Their =
> > experience
> > with this process has taught them a couple of things.> style=3D"mso-
spacerun:
> > yes"> First most boats had the keels joined to the hull =
> > just this
> > way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel.>
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> Second, 5200 really does not =
> > want to
> > let go. They've had boats =
> > in the
> > lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the keel
up =
> > being the
> > 5200.
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If=
> > anyone
> > has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about =
> > it.
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Th=
> > anks,
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fr=
> > ank
> > Albert
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> pan
> > style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
> >
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dnavy face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-
size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>> [if =
> > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>
>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----
>
> > From: =
> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-
weight:bold'>On
> > Behalf Of Allan Heyward
>
> > Sent: Thursday, February =
> > 02, 2006
> > 12:03
>
> > To: =
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> > Subject: RE: =
> > [frers-list]questions
> > on a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>> !
supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bob> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that
sails =
> > and
> > races on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve read Frank’s =
> > response on your question
> > 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my =
> > experience:> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the
transverse
> > stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the
leading =
> > edge of
> > the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of
transition =
> > into the
> > hull. I don’t know for certain if this will be true on all =
> > boats, as I
> > understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it
exists,
> > it creates a potential structural weak point. If the leading =
> > edge
> > of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get a leak that
will =
> > not only
> > contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a
path to =
> > the
> > bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing separation between
keel and =
> > hull,
> > but a crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear
in =
> > the
> > hull. This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and =
> > that you
> > should look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull.
=
> > The
> > fix is not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to
=
> > check
> > is the keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one
boat =
> > (mine)
> > there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that
caused
> > substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts.> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is
strong =
> > as an
> > ox and a delight to sail and race.> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. Heyward, =
> > Jr.> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & =
> > FEEHAN,
> > P.C.> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
> > windowtext'>
>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'font-size:
> > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> > color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DTahoma>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
> > Message-----
>
> > From:
> > frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
> > [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D'font-
weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February =
> > 01, 2006
> > 7:02 AM
>
> > To: =
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> > Subject: =
> > [frers-list]questions on
> > a purchase of a frers 33> style=3D'color:
> > black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3D"Times New Roman">> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>I am
> > currently interested in purchasing a frers 33.> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>1)> style=3D'font-size:
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring
issues =
> > in
> > hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these =
> > boats?> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>2)> style=3D'font-size:
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a
tiller is =
> > this reasonable
> > or does the installation look like a morphidite?> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>3)> style=3D'font-size:
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>Any questionable electrical to look for?>
color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > style=3D'margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'>> color=3Dblack
face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>4)> style=3D'font-size:
> > 7.0pt;color:black'> =
> > > size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-
size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> > color:black'>Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to
hull =
> > design
> > or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>I live
> > in the Chicago area> style=3D'color:black;
> > mso-color-alt:windowtext'>
>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks
> > for any advice or information anyone can offer on “what to look =
> > for”> color=3Dblack>> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-
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> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> > ont>> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'>Bob> >> color=3Dblack>>
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
> > color=3Dblack
> > face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-
family:Arial;color:black'> &nbs=
> > p;
> > > style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><=
> > /p>
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> > face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
> >
size=3D2>_______________________________________________________________
_=
> > _____________
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href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> size=3D2>legal@weberstephen.com
> > color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>and also indicate the sender's name. Thank
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> > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C628FE.708DCEC6--
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--
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
Cook Heyward Lonnes Lee & Hopper, P.C.
P.O. Box 29629
Richmond VA, 23242
804.747.4500
Fax: 804.762.9608