[frers-list]Origo stove and oven
Arthur Kelley
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Thu, 28 Oct 2010 08:28:06 -0400
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I agree and I often forget to drain it myself, but 15 lbs is the replacement=
weight defined in our class rules. Always worth remembering to drain!
Art Kelley
On Oct 28, 2010, at 8:16 AM, Robert DeConto <deconto@geo.umass.edu> wrote:
> That's a dry (completely empty) weight... not that we race with full water=
tanks and water heaters, but keep in mind that a full water tank is probabl=
y closer to ~65 lbs... so any residual water sloshing around in there adds u=
p fast.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Oct 28, 2010, at 6:33 AM, Arthur Kelley wrote:
>=20
>> Oops - sorry I mis-spoke. The water heater is only 15 lbs. It's spelled o=
ut in the rules.
>> =20
>> Art
>> =20
>> =20
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Arthur Kelley
>> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
>>=20
>> Frank,
>>=20
>> The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of the bulkhead of=
the ice box. I sure we would figure out something if you came to a one desi=
gn event. We definitely want an inclusive fleet but want to protect all owne=
rs against someone who just wants to beat the rules. If you race only PHRF t=
hen the one design prescriptions go out the window. However to maintain resa=
le and protect the future owner if they want to do one design we suggest kee=
ping changes modest and reversable.=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Art Kelley
>>=20
>> On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT <fxalbert@prodigy.net> wrote:=
>>=20
>>> =20
>>> I think Arthur hits the spirt of the rule along with the letter of it. H=
owever, on my boat I not only didn't get the water heater, I don't even have=
the shelf he's talking about so yikes what kind of weight would I be adding=
. Anyone know what the water heater weighs?=20
>>> =20
>>> Looks like I may not truck the boat up to Newport anytime soon.
>>> =20
>>> Frank Albert
>>> =20
>>> --- On Wed, 10/27/10, Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> From: Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
>>> To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" <frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
>>> Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM
>>>=20
>>> Looking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc on the site:
>>>=20
>>> 5.
>>> If the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel tank (40 lbs, @1/4 full) or ove=
n (40 lbs excluding two burner stove top) have been permanently moved, remov=
ed, or not obtained when the boat was built, a weight equal to the item shal=
l be affixed in its intended location during all racing events.
>>>=20
>>> A few important principles come out.=20
>>> 1. It does not allow that the stove can be removed, only the oven. We ca=
n discuss how to handle a missing stove in another thread if necessary.=20
>>> 2. The oven is assumed to be replaceable with 40 lbs of weight.=20
>>> 3. Substituted weight must be affixed in the intended location.=20
>>> 4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel tank?
>>>=20
>>> #3 means that hot water heater substitute weight for example, cannot be c=
onsolidated to the bilge, but must be in the lazarette on the shelf where th=
e heater would have been. With regards to the oven I suspect it is generally=
agreed that the weight can be placed in the space below the stove not neces=
sarily bolted to the bottom of the stove. However it should be noted that sa=
fety, not only the letter of the rules suggest (require?) that the weights b=
e affixed so that in the event of a knock down that they do not become life t=
hreatening projectiles.=20
>>>=20
>>> We need to be mindful that the one design rules are designed to ensure t=
hat an owner who cruises the boat can remain competitive with another boat w=
hich is used exclusively for racing. It is not designed to be a strategy for=
removing a bunch of distributed weight and consolidating it centerline belo=
w the waterline.=20
>>>=20
>>> Thoughts?
>>>=20
>>> Art Kelley
>>>=20
>>> On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal Melanson <neal.melanson@gmail.com> wro=
te:
>>>=20
>>>> ...lets all check the Class rules before we start on any weight saving p=
rograms. I started a fire storm years ago over PBO Backstays and Carbon Fib=
re Rudders.
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod Stright <StrightR@eastlink.ca> wro=
te:
>>>> Anyone interested in purchasing an Origo stove and oven for the Frers 3=
3, like new condition seldom used. Intend to replace with an Origo two burn=
er stove, would consider a trade.
>>>>=20
>>>> =20
>>>> Rod
>>>>=20
>>>> Equinox
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> 902-444-0016
>>>=20
>>>=20
>=20
> Robert DeConto
> Department of Geosciences
> 233 Morrill Science Center
> University of Massachusetts-Amherst
> Amherst, MA 01003 USA
> Tel: +1 413 545 3426
> Fax: +1 413 545 1200
> deconto@geo.umass.edu
>=20
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<html><body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>I agree and I often forget to drain it m=
yself, but 15 lbs is the replacement weight defined in our class rules. Alwa=
ys worth remembering to drain!<br><br>Art Kelley</div><div><br>On Oct 28, 20=
10, at 8:16 AM, Robert DeConto <<a href=3D"mailto:deconto@geo.umass.edu">=
deconto@geo.umass.edu</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote typ=
e=3D"cite"><div>That's a dry (completely empty) weight... not that we race w=
ith full water tanks and water heaters, but keep in mind that a full water t=
ank is probably closer to ~65 lbs... so any residual water sloshing around i=
n there adds up fast.<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><=
/div><div><br><div><div>On Oct 28, 2010, at 6:33 AM, Arthur Kelley wrote:</d=
iv><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span c=
lass=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0=
, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font=
-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; te=
xt-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;=
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webk=
it-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -=
webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: me=
dium; "><div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff"><div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Oops -=
sorry I mis-spoke. The water heater is only 15 lbs. It's spelled out i=
n the rules.</font></div><div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font> <=
/div><div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Art</font></div><div><font size=3D=
"2" face=3D"Arial"></font> </div><div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><=
/font> </div><blockquote dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"border-left-color: rgb(0,=
0, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 5px;=
padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; "><div style=3D"fo=
nt: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; ">----- Original Message -----</=
div><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; background-i=
mage: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; b=
ackground-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); background-po=
sition: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><b>From:</b><=
span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title=3D"akelley@optonl=
ine.net" href=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net">Arthur Kelley</a></div><div s=
tyle=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>To:</b><span clas=
s=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title=3D"frers-list@lists.frers3=
3.com" href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"><a href=3D"mailto:frers-=
list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a></div><div style=
=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Sent:</b><span class=3D=
"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:27 PM</di=
v><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>Subject:<=
/b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [frers-list]Origo s=
tove and oven</div><div><br></div><div>Frank,</div><div><br></div><div>The w=
eight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of the bulkhead of the ice=
box. I sure we would figure out something if you came to a one design event=
. We definitely want an inclusive fleet but want to protect all owners again=
st someone who just wants to beat the rules. If you race only PHRF then the o=
ne design prescriptions go out the window. However to maintain resale and pr=
otect the future owner if they want to do one design we suggest keeping chan=
ges modest and reversable. </div><div><br></div><div><br>Art Kelley</di=
v><div><br>On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT <<a href=3D"mailto=
:fxalbert@prodigy.net"><a href=3D"mailto:fxalbert@prodigy.net">fxalbert@prod=
igy.net</a></a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
><div><table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td=
valign=3D"top"><div> </div><div>I think Arthur hits the spirt of the r=
ule along with the letter of it. However, on my boat I not only didn't=
get the water heater, I don't even have the shelf he's talking about so yik=
es what kind of weight would I be adding. Anyone know what the water h=
eater weighs? </div><div> </div><div>Looks like I may not truck th=
e boat up to Newport anytime soon.</div><div> </div><div>Frank Albert</=
div><div> </div><div>--- On<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> =
</span><b>Wed, 10/27/10, Arthur Kelley<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=
</span><i><<a href=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net"><a href=3D"mail=
to:akelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</a></a>></i></b><span cla=
ss=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br></div><blockquote style=3D=
"border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-st=
yle: solid; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; "><br>From: Arthur Kelley &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net"><a href=3D"mailto:akelley@optonl=
ine.net">akelley@optonline.net</a></a>><br>Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo=
stove and oven<br>To: "<a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"><a h=
ref=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a>=
</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"><a href=3D"mailto:=
frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a>><br>Da=
te: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM<br><br><div id=3D"yiv80101902"><div=
><div>Looking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc on the site:</div>=
<div><br><span class=3D"yiv80101902Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: T=
imes; font-size: 18px; "><div class=3D"yiv80101902s13" style=3D"margin-top: 0=
px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 54px; "><div class=3D"yiv80101902s12" s=
tyle=3D"font-style: italic; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; font-size: 1=
2px; ">5.</div><span class=3D"yiv80101902s4" style=3D"line-height: 18px; fon=
t-style: italic; font-size: 18px; ">If the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel=
tank (40 lbs, @1/4 full) or oven (40 lbs excluding two burner stove top) ha=
ve been permanently moved, removed, or not obtained when the boat was built,=
a weight equal to the item shall be affixed in its intended location during=
all racing events.</span></div></span><div><br></div><div>A few important p=
rinciples come out. </div><div>1. It does not allow that the stove can b=
e removed, only the oven. We can discuss how to handle a missing stove in an=
other thread if necessary. </div><div>2. The oven is assumed to be repl=
aceable with 40 lbs of weight. </div><div>3. Substituted weight must be=
affixed in the intended location. </div><div>4. Anyone want to pull ou=
t their fuel tank?</div><div><br></div><div>#3 means that hot water heater s=
ubstitute weight for example, cannot be consolidated to the bilge, but must b=
e in the lazarette on the shelf where the heater would have been. With regar=
ds to the oven I suspect it is generally agreed that the weight can be place=
d in the space below the stove not necessarily bolted to the bottom of the s=
tove. However it should be noted that safety, not only the letter of the rul=
es suggest (require?) that the weights be affixed so that in the event of a k=
nock down that they do not become life threatening projectiles. </div><=
div><br></div><div>We need to be mindful that the one design rules are desig=
ned to ensure that an owner who cruises the boat can remain competitive with=
another boat which is used exclusively for racing. It is not designed to be=
a strategy for removing a bunch of distributed weight and consolidating it c=
enterline below the waterline. </div><div><br></div><div>Thoughts?</div=
><div><br></div>Art Kelley</div><div><br>On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal M=
elanson <<a href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.m=
elanson@gmail.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:neal=
.melanson@gmail.com"></a><a href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compos=
e?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D=
"mailto:neal.melanson@gmail.com"></a><a href=3D"mailto:neal.melanson@gmail.c=
om"><a href=3D"mailto:neal.melanson@gmail.com">neal.melanson@gmail.com</a></=
a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div>..=
.lets all check the Class rules before we start on any weight saving program=
s. I started a fire storm years ago over PBO Backstays and Carbon Fibr=
e Rudders.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>&nbs=
p;</div><div class=3D"yiv80101902gmail_quote"> </div><div class=3D"yiv8=
0101902gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod Stright<span class=3D=
"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"http:/=
/us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca" rel=3D"nofoll=
ow" target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:StrightR@eastlink.ca"></a><a href=3D=
"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca" rel=3D=
"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:StrightR@eastlink.ca"></a><a h=
ref=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca" r=
el=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" ymailto=3D"mailto:StrightR@eastlink.ca"></=
a><a href=3D"mailto:StrightR@eastlink.ca"><a href=3D"mailto:StrightR@eastlin=
k.ca">StrightR@eastlink.ca</a></a>></span><span class=3D"Apple-converted-=
space"> </span>wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"yiv80101902gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px;=
border-left-style: solid; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom=
: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; "><div lang=3D"EN-CA"><div><p c=
lass=3D"yiv80101902MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: serif; color: rgb(=
0, 32, 96); font-size: 12pt; ">Anyone interested in purchasing an Origo stov=
e and oven for the Frers 33, like new condition seldom used. Intend to=
replace with an Origo two burner stove, would consider a trade.</span></p><=
/div><div><span style=3D"font-family: serif; color: rgb(0, 32, 96); font-siz=
e: 12pt; "></span> <br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div><=
p class=3D"yiv80101902MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: serif; color: r=
gb(0, 32, 96); font-size: 12pt; ">Rod</span></p></blockquote></div><p class=3D=
"yiv80101902MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: serif; color: rgb(0, 32, 9=
6); font-size: 12pt; ">Equinox</span></p></blockquote></div><p class=3D"yiv8=
0101902MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: serif; color: rgb(0, 32, 96); f=
ont-size: 12pt; ">902-444-0016</span></p></div></blockquote><br><div></div><=
/td></tr></tbody></table></div></blockquote></blockquote></div></span></bloc=
kquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited=3D"true"> <span class=3D"Apple-st=
yle-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-fami=
ly: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; f=
ont-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2;=
text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: norm=
al; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -w=
ebkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none=
; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div sty=
le=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: a=
fter-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collaps=
e: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; f=
ont-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing=
: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:=
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-hor=
izontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-dec=
orations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-strok=
e-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: spac=
e; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span"=
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helve=
tica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight=
: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-inde=
nt: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing:=
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacin=
g: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: a=
uto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -=
webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span clas=
s=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0=
); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant=
: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; o=
rphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; wido=
ws: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-bo=
rder-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webki=
t-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"wo=
rd-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-whi=
te-space; ">Robert DeConto</div><div>Department of Geosciences</div><div>233=
Morrill Science Center</div><div>University of Massachusetts-Amherst</div><=
div>Amherst, MA 01003 USA</div><div>Tel: +1 413 545 3426</div><div>Fax: +1 4=
13 545 1200</div><div><a href=3D"mailto:deconto@geo.umass.edu"><a href=3D"ma=
ilto:deconto@geo.umass.edu">deconto@geo.umass.edu</a></a></div></span></div>=
</span></div></span></div></span> </div><br></div></div></blockquote></body>=
</html>=
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