[frers-list]Origo stove and oven
Robert DeConto
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Thu, 28 Oct 2010 08:16:49 -0400
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That's a dry (completely empty) weight... not that we race with full
water tanks and water heaters, but keep in mind that a full water tank
is probably closer to ~65 lbs... so any residual water sloshing around
in there adds up fast.
On Oct 28, 2010, at 6:33 AM, Arthur Kelley wrote:
> Oops - sorry I mis-spoke. The water heater is only 15 lbs. It's
> spelled out in the rules.
>
> Art
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Arthur Kelley
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
>
> Frank,
>
> The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of the
> bulkhead of the ice box. I sure we would figure out something if you
> came to a one design event. We definitely want an inclusive fleet
> but want to protect all owners against someone who just wants to
> beat the rules. If you race only PHRF then the one design
> prescriptions go out the window. However to maintain resale and
> protect the future owner if they want to do one design we suggest
> keeping changes modest and reversable.
>
>
> Art Kelley
>
> On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT <fxalbert@prodigy.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I think Arthur hits the spirt of the rule along with the letter of
>> it. However, on my boat I not only didn't get the water heater, I
>> don't even have the shelf he's talking about so yikes what kind of
>> weight would I be adding. Anyone know what the water heater weighs?
>>
>> Looks like I may not truck the boat up to Newport anytime soon.
>>
>> Frank Albert
>>
>> --- On Wed, 10/27/10, Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>> From: Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>
>> Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
>> To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" <frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM
>>
>> Looking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc on the site:
>>
>> 5.
>> If the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel tank (40 lbs, @1/4 full)
>> or oven (40 lbs excluding two burner stove top) have been
>> permanently moved, removed, or not obtained when the boat was
>> built, a weight equal to the item shall be affixed in its intended
>> location during all racing events.
>>
>> A few important principles come out.
>> 1. It does not allow that the stove can be removed, only the oven.
>> We can discuss how to handle a missing stove in another thread if
>> necessary.
>> 2. The oven is assumed to be replaceable with 40 lbs of weight.
>> 3. Substituted weight must be affixed in the intended location.
>> 4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel tank?
>>
>> #3 means that hot water heater substitute weight for example,
>> cannot be consolidated to the bilge, but must be in the lazarette
>> on the shelf where the heater would have been. With regards to the
>> oven I suspect it is generally agreed that the weight can be placed
>> in the space below the stove not necessarily bolted to the bottom
>> of the stove. However it should be noted that safety, not only the
>> letter of the rules suggest (require?) that the weights be affixed
>> so that in the event of a knock down that they do not become life
>> threatening projectiles.
>>
>> We need to be mindful that the one design rules are designed to
>> ensure that an owner who cruises the boat can remain competitive
>> with another boat which is used exclusively for racing. It is not
>> designed to be a strategy for removing a bunch of distributed
>> weight and consolidating it centerline below the waterline.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Art Kelley
>>
>> On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal Melanson
>> <neal.melanson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ...lets all check the Class rules before we start on any weight
>>> saving programs. I started a fire storm years ago over PBO
>>> Backstays and Carbon Fibre Rudders.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod Stright
>>> <StrightR@eastlink.ca> wrote:
>>> Anyone interested in purchasing an Origo stove and oven for the
>>> Frers 33, like new condition seldom used. Intend to replace with
>>> an Origo two burner stove, would consider a trade.
>>>
>>>
>>> Rod
>>>
>>> Equinox
>>>
>>
>> 902-444-0016
>>
>>
Robert DeConto
Department of Geosciences
233 Morrill Science Center
University of Massachusetts-Amherst
Amherst, MA 01003 USA
Tel: +1 413 545 3426
Fax: +1 413 545 1200
deconto@geo.umass.edu
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">That's a dry (completely empty) =
weight... not that we race with full water tanks and water heaters, but =
keep in mind that a full water tank is probably closer to ~65 lbs... so =
any residual water sloshing around in there adds up =
fast.<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br>=
<div><div>On Oct 28, 2010, at 6:33 AM, Arthur Kelley wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
bgcolor=3D"#ffffff"><div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Oops - sorry I =
mis-spoke. The water heater is only 15 lbs. It's spelled out in =
the rules.</font></div><div><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font> </div><div><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial">Art</font></div><div><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font> </div><div><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font> </div><blockquote dir=3D"ltr" =
style=3D"border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-width: 2px; =
border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; =
margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; "><div style=3D"font: normal normal =
normal 10pt/normal arial; ">----- Original Message -----</div><div =
style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; background-image: =
initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; =
background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); =
background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial =
initial; "><b>From:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
title=3D"akelley@optonline.net" =
href=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net">Arthur Kelley</a></div><div =
style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; "><b>To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
title=3D"frers-list@lists.frers33.com" =
href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com<=
/a></div><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; =
"><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, October 27, 2010 =
8:27 PM</div><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; =
"><b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: =
[frers-list]Origo stove and =
oven</div><div><br></div><div>Frank,</div><div><br></div><div>The weight =
would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of the bulkhead of the ice =
box. I sure we would figure out something if you came to a one design =
event. We definitely want an inclusive fleet but want to protect all =
owners against someone who just wants to beat the rules. If you race =
only PHRF then the one design prescriptions go out the window. However =
to maintain resale and protect the future owner if they want to do one =
design we suggest keeping changes modest and =
reversable. </div><div><br></div><div><br>Art =
Kelley</div><div><br>On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT <<a =
href=3D"mailto:fxalbert@prodigy.net">fxalbert@prodigy.net</a>> =
wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><table =
border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td =
valign=3D"top"><div> </div><div>I think Arthur hits the spirt of =
the rule along with the letter of it. However, on my boat I not =
only didn't get the water heater, I don't even have the shelf he's =
talking about so yikes what kind of weight would I be adding. =
Anyone know what the water heater =
weighs? </div><div> </div><div>Looks like I may not truck the =
boat up to Newport anytime soon.</div><div> </div><div>Frank =
Albert</div><div> </div><div>--- On<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Wed, 10/27/10, Arthur =
Kelley<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><i><<a =
href=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</a>></i></b=
><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br></div><blockquote =
style=3D"border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-left-width: 2px; =
border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; =
"><br>From: Arthur Kelley <<a =
href=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</a>><br>Sub=
ject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven<br>To: "<a =
href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com<=
/a>" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com<=
/a>><br>Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM<br><br><div =
id=3D"yiv80101902"><div><div>Looking at the rules as spelled out in the =
Word doc on the site:</div><div><br><span =
class=3D"yiv80101902Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Times; =
font-size: 18px; "><div class=3D"yiv80101902s13" style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 54px; "><div =
class=3D"yiv80101902s12" style=3D"font-style: italic; margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; font-size: 12px; ">5.</div><span =
class=3D"yiv80101902s4" style=3D"line-height: 18px; font-style: italic; =
font-size: 18px; ">If the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel tank (40 =
lbs, @1/4 full) or oven (40 lbs excluding two burner stove top) have =
been permanently moved, removed, or not obtained when the boat was =
built, a weight equal to the item shall be affixed in its intended =
location during all racing =
events.</span></div></span><div><br></div><div>A few important =
principles come out. </div><div>1. It does not allow that the stove =
can be removed, only the oven. We can discuss how to handle a missing =
stove in another thread if necessary. </div><div>2. The oven is =
assumed to be replaceable with 40 lbs of weight. </div><div>3. =
Substituted weight must be affixed in the intended =
location. </div><div>4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel =
tank?</div><div><br></div><div>#3 means that hot water heater substitute =
weight for example, cannot be consolidated to the bilge, but must be in =
the lazarette on the shelf where the heater would have been. With =
regards to the oven I suspect it is generally agreed that the weight can =
be placed in the space below the stove not necessarily bolted to the =
bottom of the stove. However it should be noted that safety, not only =
the letter of the rules suggest (require?) that the weights be affixed =
so that in the event of a knock down that they do not become life =
threatening projectiles. </div><div><br></div><div>We need to be =
mindful that the one design rules are designed to ensure that an owner =
who cruises the boat can remain competitive with another boat which is =
used exclusively for racing. It is not designed to be a strategy for =
removing a bunch of distributed weight and consolidating it centerline =
below the =
waterline. </div><div><br></div><div>Thoughts?</div><div><br></div>Ar=
t Kelley</div><div><br>On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal Melanson <<a =
href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail=
.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:neal.melanson@gmail.com"></a><a =
href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail=
.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:neal.melanson@gmail.com"></a><a =
href=3D"mailto:neal.melanson@gmail.com">neal.melanson@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div>...lets=
all check the Class rules before we start on any weight saving =
programs. I started a fire storm years ago over PBO Backstays and =
Carbon Fibre =
Rudders.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>&nbs=
p;</div><div class=3D"yiv80101902gmail_quote"> </div><div =
class=3D"yiv80101902gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod =
Stright<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span =
dir=3D"ltr"><<a =
href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.c=
a" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:StrightR@eastlink.ca"></a><a =
href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.c=
a" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:StrightR@eastlink.ca"></a><a =
href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.c=
a" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" =
ymailto=3D"mailto:StrightR@eastlink.ca"></a><a =
href=3D"mailto:StrightR@eastlink.ca">StrightR@eastlink.ca</a>></span><s=
pan =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br></div><blockquote =
class=3D"yiv80101902gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left-color: rgb(204, =
204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; =
padding-left: 1ex; "><div lang=3D"EN-CA"><div><p =
class=3D"yiv80101902MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: serif; color: =
rgb(0, 32, 96); font-size: 12pt; ">Anyone interested in purchasing an =
Origo stove and oven for the Frers 33, like new condition seldom =
used. Intend to replace with an Origo two burner stove, would =
consider a trade.</span></p></div><div><span style=3D"font-family: =
serif; color: rgb(0, 32, 96); font-size: 12pt; "></span> <br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div><p =
class=3D"yiv80101902MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: serif; color: =
rgb(0, 32, 96); font-size: 12pt; ">Rod</span></p></blockquote></div><p =
class=3D"yiv80101902MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: serif; color: =
rgb(0, 32, 96); font-size: 12pt; =
">Equinox</span></p></blockquote></div><p =
class=3D"yiv80101902MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family: serif; color: =
rgb(0, 32, 96); font-size: 12pt; =
">902-444-0016</span></p></div></blockquote><br><div></div></td></tr></tbo=
dy></table></div></blockquote></blockquote></div></span></blockquote></div=
><br><div apple-content-edited=3D"true"> <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div>Robert DeConto</div><div>Department of =
Geosciences</div><div>233 Morrill Science Center</div><div>University of =
Massachusetts-Amherst</div><div>Amherst, MA 01003 USA</div><div>Tel: +1 =
413 545 3426</div><div>Fax: +1 413 545 1200</div><div><a =
href=3D"mailto:deconto@geo.umass.edu">deconto@geo.umass.edu</a></div></div=
></span></div></span></div></span></div></span> =
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