[frers-list]Origo stove and oven
Arthur Kelley
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Thu, 28 Oct 2010 08:31:46 -0400
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Ah, good point. I stand corrected! Always check with your local authority! R=
emember we do have a designed base Weight of 9000 lbs. I don't know how many=
have been weighed but going below that would be a clear cut PHRF violation a=
s well.=20
Art Kelley
On Oct 28, 2010, at 7:47 AM, Neal Melanson <neal.melanson@gmail.com> wrote:
> "If you race only PHRF then the one design prescriptions go out the window=
. " - Art Kelley
> =20
> I have to clarify that even PHRF discourages modifications. There are ser=
veral hundred pounds the previous owner and I always wanted to strip out of V=
apor Trail but never did because of the spirit of the "as-built" statement i=
n the PHRF rules, that combined with never wanting to hear any excuses from t=
he cutthroat SOBs we raced against up here.
> =20
> Here is the excerpt from PHRFNE.org:
> "It is the intention of PHRF-NE to handicap boats in an as-built configura=
tion. PHRF-NE will adjust the handicaps of boats that have been altered from=
the as- built configuration to completely compensate for any expected speed=
advantage. Variations must be reported to the Chief Handicapper so that the=
Fleet can be more accurately handicapped."
>=20
>=20
> On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:33 AM, Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net> wro=
te:
> Oops - sorry I mis-spoke. The water heater is only 15 lbs. It's spelled o=
ut in the rules.
> =20
> Art
> =20
> =20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Arthur Kelley
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
>=20
> Frank,
>=20
> The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of the bulkhead of t=
he ice box. I sure we would figure out something if you came to a one design=
event. We definitely want an inclusive fleet but want to protect all owners=
against someone who just wants to beat the rules. If you race only PHRF the=
n the one design prescriptions go out the window. However to maintain resale=
and protect the future owner if they want to do one design we suggest keepi=
ng changes modest and reversable.=20
>=20
>=20
> Art Kelley
>=20
> On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT <fxalbert@prodigy.net> wrote:
>=20
>> =20
>> I think Arthur hits the spirt of the rule along with the letter of it. H=
owever, on my boat I not only didn't get the water heater, I don't even have=
the shelf he's talking about so yikes what kind of weight would I be adding=
. Anyone know what the water heater weighs?=20
>> =20
>> Looks like I may not truck the boat up to Newport anytime soon.
>> =20
>> Frank Albert
>> =20
>> --- On Wed, 10/27/10, Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net> wrote:
>>=20
>> From: Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>
>> Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
>> To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" <frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM
>>=20
>> Looking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc on the site:
>>=20
>> 5.
>> If the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel tank (40 lbs, @1/4 full) or oven=
(40 lbs excluding two burner stove top) have been permanently moved, remove=
d, or not obtained when the boat was built, a weight equal to the item shall=
be affixed in its intended location during all racing events.
>>=20
>> A few important principles come out.=20
>> 1. It does not allow that the stove can be removed, only the oven. We can=
discuss how to handle a missing stove in another thread if necessary.=20
>> 2. The oven is assumed to be replaceable with 40 lbs of weight.=20
>> 3. Substituted weight must be affixed in the intended location.=20
>> 4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel tank?
>>=20
>> #3 means that hot water heater substitute weight for example, cannot be c=
onsolidated to the bilge, but must be in the lazarette on the shelf where th=
e heater would have been. With regards to the oven I suspect it is generally=
agreed that the weight can be placed in the space below the stove not neces=
sarily bolted to the bottom of the stove. However it should be noted that sa=
fety, not only the letter of the rules suggest (require?) that the weights b=
e affixed so that in the event of a knock down that they do not become life t=
hreatening projectiles.=20
>>=20
>> We need to be mindful that the one design rules are designed to ensure th=
at an owner who cruises the boat can remain competitive with another boat wh=
ich is used exclusively for racing. It is not designed to be a strategy for r=
emoving a bunch of distributed weight and consolidating it centerline below t=
he waterline.=20
>>=20
>> Thoughts?
>>=20
>> Art Kelley
>>=20
>> On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal Melanson <neal.melanson@gmail.com> wrot=
e:
>>=20
>>> ...lets all check the Class rules before we start on any weight saving p=
rograms. I started a fire storm years ago over PBO Backstays and Carbon Fib=
re Rudders.
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod Stright <StrightR@eastlink.ca> wrot=
e:
>>> Anyone interested in purchasing an Origo stove and oven for the Frers 33=
, like new condition seldom used. Intend to replace with an Origo two burne=
r stove, would consider a trade.
>>>=20
>>> =20
>>>=20
>>> Rod
>>>=20
>>> Equinox
>>>=20
>>=20
>> 902-444-0016
>>=20
>>=20
>=20
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<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Ah, good point. I stand corrected! Always check with your local authority! Remember we do have a designed base Weight of 9000 lbs. I don't know how many have been weighed but going below that would be a clear cut PHRF violation as well. </div><div><br>Art Kelley</div><div><br>On Oct 28, 2010, at 7:47 AM, Neal Melanson <<a href="mailto:neal.melanson@gmail.com">neal.melanson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div>"If you race only PHRF then the one design prescriptions go out the window. " - Art Kelley</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I have to clarify that even PHRF discourages modifications. There are serveral hundred pounds the previous owner and I always wanted to strip out of Vapor Trail but never did because of the spirit of the "as-built" statement in the PHRF rules, that combined with never wanting to hear any excuses from the cutthroat SOBs we raced against up here.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Here is the excerpt from <a href="http://PHRFNE.org">PHRFNE.org</a>:</div>
<div>
<p>"It is the intention of PHRF-NE to handicap boats in an as-built configuration. PHRF-NE will adjust the handicaps of boats that have been altered from the as- built configuration to completely compensate for any expected speed advantage. Variations must be reported to the Chief Handicapper so that the Fleet can be more accurately handicapped."<br>
</p><br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:33 AM, Arthur Kelley <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:akelley@optonline.net"><a href="mailto:akelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</a></a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Oops - sorry I mis-spoke. The water heater is only 15 lbs. It's spelled out in the rules.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Art</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><b>From:</b> <a title="akelley@optonline.net" href="mailto:akelley@optonline.net" target="_blank">Arthur Kelley</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="frers-list@lists.frers33.com" href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com" target="_blank"><a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:27 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Frank,</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of the bulkhead of the ice box. I sure we would figure out something if you came to a one design event. We definitely want an inclusive fleet but want to protect all owners against someone who just wants to beat the rules. If you race only PHRF then the one design prescriptions go out the window. However to maintain resale and protect the future owner if they want to do one design we suggest keeping changes modest and reversable. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br>Art Kelley</div>
<div><br>On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT <<a href="mailto:fxalbert@prodigy.net" target="_blank"><a href="mailto:fxalbert@prodigy.net">fxalbert@prodigy.net</a></a>> wrote:<br><br></div>
<div></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
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<div>I think Arthur hits the spirt of the rule along with the letter of it. However, on my boat I not only didn't get the water heater, I don't even have the shelf he's talking about so yikes what kind of weight would I be adding. Anyone know what the water heater weighs? </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Looks like I may not truck the boat up to Newport anytime soon.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Frank Albert</div>
<div> </div>
<div>--- On <b>Wed, 10/27/10, Arthur Kelley <i><<a href="mailto:akelley@optonline.net" target="_blank"><a href="mailto:akelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</a></a>></i></b> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><br>From: Arthur Kelley <<a href="mailto:akelley@optonline.net" target="_blank"><a href="mailto:akelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</a></a>><br>Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven<br>
To: "<a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com" target="_blank"><a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a>" <<a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com" target="_blank"><a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a>><br>Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM<br>
<br>
<div>
<div>
<div>Looking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc on the site:</div>
<div><br><span style="FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: 18px">
<div style="MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 54px">
<div style="FONT-STYLE: italic; MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 12px">5.</div><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 18px; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-SIZE: 18px">If the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel tank (40 lbs, @1/4 full) or oven (40 lbs excluding two burner stove top) have been permanently moved, removed, or not obtained when the boat was built, a weight equal to the item shall be affixed in its intended location during all racing events.</span></div>
</span>
<div><br></div>
<div>A few important principles come out. </div>
<div>1. It does not allow that the stove can be removed, only the oven. We can discuss how to handle a missing stove in another thread if necessary. </div>
<div>2. The oven is assumed to be replaceable with 40 lbs of weight. </div>
<div>3. Substituted weight must be affixed in the intended location. </div>
<div>4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel tank?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>#3 means that hot water heater substitute weight for example, cannot be consolidated to the bilge, but must be in the lazarette on the shelf where the heater would have been. With regards to the oven I suspect it is generally agreed that the weight can be placed in the space below the stove not necessarily bolted to the bottom of the stove. However it should be noted that safety, not only the letter of the rules suggest (require?) that the weights be affixed so that in the event of a knock down that they do not become life threatening projectiles. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>We need to be mindful that the one design rules are designed to ensure that an owner who cruises the boat can remain competitive with another boat which is used exclusively for racing. It is not designed to be a strategy for removing a bunch of distributed weight and consolidating it centerline below the waterline. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Thoughts?</div>
<div><br></div>Art Kelley</div>
<div><br>On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal Melanson <<a href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=neal.melanson@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=neal.melanson@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:neal.melanson@gmail.com" target="_blank"><a href="mailto:neal.melanson@gmail.com">neal.melanson@gmail.com</a></a>> wrote:<br>
<br></div>
<div></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>...lets all check the Class rules before we start on any weight saving programs. I started a fire storm years ago over PBO Backstays and Carbon Fibre Rudders.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod Stright <span dir="ltr"><<a href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=StrightR@eastlink.ca" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=StrightR@eastlink.ca" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=StrightR@eastlink.ca" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:StrightR@eastlink.ca" target="_blank"><a href="mailto:StrightR@eastlink.ca">StrightR@eastlink.ca</a></a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div lang="EN-CA">
<div>
<p><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Anyone interested in purchasing an Origo stove and oven for the Frers 33, like new condition seldom used. Intend to replace with an Origo two burner stove, would consider a trade.</span></p>
</div>
<p><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></span> </p></div>
<p><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Rod</span></p></blockquote></div>
<p><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Equinox</span></p></blockquote></div>
<p><span style="FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">902-444-0016</span></p></div></blockquote><br>
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