[frers-list] keeping the boat flat

David Nauber frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Thu, 28 Oct 2010 11:42:50 -0700 (PDT)


--0-1389501100-1288291370=:61498
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Welcome Tom,
Just be aware that class association dues for the rich guys with the bigger=
 boats are MUCH higher.
Regards,
Dave NauberWolverine

--- On Thu, 10/28/10, Bruton, Tom (GECAS) <Tom.Bruton@gecas.com> wrote:

From: Bruton, Tom (GECAS) <Tom.Bruton@gecas.com>
Subject: RE: [frers-list] keeping the boat flat
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 10:20 AM

=0A=0A =0A =0A =0AGentlemen,=0A=A0=0AThere is a spy amongst you. I recently=
 bought a Frers 36, (a =0Aslightly older, slightly bigger and more IOR orie=
ntated version of your own =0Aboats), and came across your email group duri=
ng a "Frers" websearch and =0Aimmediately signed up. Although all this talk=
 of one-design details,=A0and =0Acustom sail deals does not apply to me, th=
e discussion on bulkhead separations =0Awas informative, and I have enjoyed=
 all your banter and=A0feel somewhat like =0Aa close cousin. Just wanted to=
 announce myself, and if you don't mind continue =0Ato=A0enjoy your comment=
s.=0ABest Regards=0ATom Bruton=0A"Mystique"=A0=A0
=0A=0A=0AFrom: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =0A[mailto:frers-list-adm=
in@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Scott =0AMarino
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 10:03 AM
To: =0Afrers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: Re: [frers-list] keeping the =0Aboat flat

=0A=0A=0A  =0A  =0A    =0A      All this talk of stoves and weights is inte=
resting but what I really =0A      want to know is:=A0 =0A      =A0=0A     =
 When going up wind in 20 to 25 kts do you find it best to use the #3 =0A  =
    with full main or reef the main and carry a bigger headsail?=A0 In the =
=0A      tug of war between a flat boat and a boat that points as high as p=
ossible, =0A      which is better?=0A      =A0=0A      Has anyone ever used=
 a #4?=0A      =A0=0A     =20

--- On Thu, 10/28/10, Arthur Kelley =0A      <akelley@optonline.net> wrote:
=0A     =20
From: =0A        Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: =0A        [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" =0A        <frers-list@lists.frers33.com=
>
Date: Thursday, October 28, =0A        2010, 8:31 AM

=0A        =0A        Ah, good point. I stand corrected! =A0Always check wi=
th your =0A        local authority! Remember we do have a designed base Wei=
ght of 9000 lbs. =0A        I don't know how many have been weighed but goi=
ng below that would be a =0A        clear cut PHRF violation as well.=A0=0A=
       =20
Art Kelley=0A       =20
On Oct 28, 2010, at 7:47 AM, Neal Melanson <neal.melanson@gmail.com> =0A   =
     wrote:

=0A        =0A        =0A          =0A          "If you race only PHRF then=
 the one design prescriptions go out =0A          the window. " - Art Kelle=
y=0A          =A0=0A          I have to clarify that even PHRF =0A         =
 discourages=A0modifications.=A0 There are serveral =0A          hundred=A0=
pounds the previous owner and I always wanted to strip =0A          out of =
Vapor Trail but never did because of the spirit of the =0A          "as-bui=
lt" statement in the PHRF rules, that combined with never =0A          want=
ing to hear any excuses=A0from the cutthroat SOBs we raced =0A          aga=
inst up here.=0A          =A0=0A          Here is=A0the excerpt from PHRFNE=
.org:=0A          =0A          "It is the intention of PHRF-NE to handicap =
boats in an as-built =0A          configuration. PHRF-NE will adjust the ha=
ndicaps of boats that have =0A          been altered from the as- built con=
figuration to completely compensate =0A          for any expected speed adv=
antage. Variations must be reported to the =0A          Chief Handicapper s=
o that the Fleet can be more accurately =0A          handicapped."


=0A          On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:33 AM, =0A          Arthur Kelley <a=
kelley@optonline.net> =0A          wrote:
=0A          =0A            =0A            Oops - sorry I mis-spoke.=A0 The=
 =0A            water heater is only 15 lbs. It's spelled out in the =0A   =
         rules.=0A            =A0=0A            Art=0A            =A0=0A   =
         =A0=0A            =0A              ----- Original Message ----- =
=0A              From: Arthur Kelley =0A              To: frers-list@lists.=
frers33.com =0A              =0A              Sent: Wednesday, October 27, =
=0A              2010 8:27 PM=0A              Subject: Re: =0A             =
 [frers-list]Origo stove and oven=0A             =20
=0A              Frank,=0A             =20
=0A              The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of =
the =0A              bulkhead of the ice box. I sure we would figure out so=
mething if =0A              you came to a one design event. We definitely w=
ant an inclusive =0A              fleet but want to protect all owners agai=
nst someone who just =0A              wants to beat the rules. If you race =
only PHRF then the one design =0A              prescriptions go out the win=
dow. However to maintain resale and =0A              protect the future own=
er if they want to do one design we suggest =0A              keeping change=
s modest and reversable.=A0=0A             =20
=0A             =20
Art Kelley=0A             =20
On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT <fxalbert@prodigy.net> =0A     =
         wrote:

=0A              =0A              =0A                =0A                =0A=
                  =0A                  =0A                    =0A          =
            =A0=0A                      I think Arthur hits the spirt of th=
e rule along with =0A                      the letter of it.=A0 However, on=
 my boat I not only =0A                      didn't get the water heater, I=
 don't even have the shelf =0A                      he's talking about so y=
ikes what kind of weight would I be =0A                      adding.=A0 Any=
one know what the water heater =0A                      weighs?=A0 =0A     =
                 =A0=0A                      Looks like I may not truck the=
 boat up to Newport =0A                      anytime soon.=0A              =
        =A0=0A                      Frank Albert=0A                      =
=A0=0A                      --- On Wed, 10/27/10, Arthur Kelley <akelley@op=
tonline.net> =0A                      wrote:
=0A                     =20
From: =0A                        Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>
Subject: =0A                        Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven
To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" =0A                        <frers-list@l=
ists.frers33.com>
Date: =0A                        Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM

=0A                        =0A                        =0A                  =
      Looking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc =0A              =
          on the site:=0A                       =20
=0A                        =0A                        5.If =0A             =
           the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel tank (40 lbs, @1/4 =0A    =
                    full) or oven (40 lbs excluding two burner stove top) =
=0A                        have been permanently moved, removed, or not obt=
ained =0A                        when the boat was built, a weight equal to=
 the item =0A                        shall be affixed in its intended locat=
ion during all =0A                        racing events.=0A                =
       =20
=0A                        A few important principles come out.=A0=0A      =
                  1. It does not allow that the stove can be removed, =0A  =
                      only the oven. We can discuss how to handle a missing=
 =0A                        stove in another thread if necessary.=A0=0A    =
                    2. The oven is assumed to be replaceable with 40 =0A   =
                     lbs of weight.=A0=0A                        3. Substit=
uted weight must be affixed in the =0A                        intended loca=
tion.=A0=0A                        4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel ta=
nk?=0A                       =20
=0A                        #3 means that hot water heater substitute weight=
 =0A                        for example, cannot be consolidated to the bilg=
e, but =0A                        must be in the lazarette on the shelf whe=
re the heater =0A                        would have been. With regards to t=
he oven I suspect it =0A                        is generally agreed that th=
e weight can be placed in the =0A                        space below the st=
ove not necessarily bolted to the =0A                        bottom of the =
stove. However it should be noted that =0A                        safety, n=
ot only the letter of the rules suggest =0A                        (require=
?) that the weights be affixed so that in the =0A                        ev=
ent of a knock down that they do not become life =0A                       =
 threatening projectiles.=A0=0A                       =20
=0A                        We need to be mindful that the one design rules =
are =0A                        designed to ensure that an owner who cruises=
 the boat =0A                        can remain competitive with another bo=
at which is used =0A                        exclusively for racing. It is n=
ot designed to be a =0A                        strategy for removing a bunc=
h of distributed weight and =0A                        consolidating it cen=
terline below the =0A                        waterline.=A0=0A              =
         =20
=0A                        Thoughts?=0A                       =20
Art Kelley=0A                       =20
On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal Melanson =0A                        <neal=
.melanson@gmail.com> =0A                        wrote:

=0A                        =0A                        =0A                  =
        =0A                          ...lets all check the Class rules befo=
re we start =0A                          on any weight saving programs.=A0 =
I started a fire =0A                          storm years ago over PBO Back=
stays and Carbon Fibre =0A                          Rudders.=0A            =
              =A0=0A                          =A0=0A                       =
   =A0=0A                          =A0=0A                          =A0=0A  =
                        On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod Stright =0A   =
                       <StrightR@eastlink.ca> =0A                          =
wrote:
=0A                          =0A                            =0A            =
                =0A                            Anyone =0A                  =
          interested in purchasing an Origo stove and oven for =0A         =
                   the Frers 33, like new condition seldom used.=A0 =0A    =
                        Intend to replace with an Origo two burner stove, =
=0A                            would consider a trade.=0A                  =
          =A0=0A                            Rod=0A                         =
 Equinox=0A                        902-444-0016
=0A                     =20

 =0A=0A=0A=0A      
--0-1389501100-1288291370=:61498
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;">Welcome Tom,<div><br></div><div>Just be aware=
 that class association dues for the rich guys with the bigger boats are MU=
CH higher.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Dave =
Nauber</div><div>Wolverine<br><br>--- On <b>Thu, 10/28/10, Bruton, Tom (GEC=
AS) <i>&lt;Tom.Bruton@gecas.com&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"=
border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5p=
x;"><br>From: Bruton, Tom (GECAS) &lt;Tom.Bruton@gecas.com&gt;<br>Subject: =
RE: [frers-list] keeping the boat flat<br>To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com<=
br>Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 10:20 AM<br><br><div id=3D"yiv11101947=
53">=0A=0A =0A =0A =0A<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"yiv111=
0194753556390914-28102010"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial=
">Gentlemen,</font></span></div>=0A<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span cl=
ass=3D"yiv1110194753556390914-28102010"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"=
><span class=3D"yiv1110194753556390914-28102010"><font color=3D"#0000ff" si=
ze=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">There is a spy amongst you. I recently bought a Fre=
rs 36, (a =0Aslightly older, slightly bigger and more IOR orientated versio=
n of your own =0Aboats), and came across your email group during a "Frers" =
websearch and =0Aimmediately signed up. Although all this talk of one-desig=
n details,&nbsp;and =0Acustom sail deals does not apply to me, the discussi=
on on bulkhead separations =0Awas informative, and I have enjoyed all your =
banter and&nbsp;feel somewhat like =0Aa close cousin. Just wanted to announ=
ce myself, and if you don't mind continue =0Ato&nbsp;enjoy your comments.</=
font></span></div>=0A<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span class=3D"yiv1110=
194753556390914-28102010"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"=
>Best Regards</font></span></div>=0A<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span c=
lass=3D"yiv1110194753556390914-28102010"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2"=
 face=3D"Arial">Tom Bruton</font></span></div>=0A<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"=
left"><span class=3D"yiv1110194753556390914-28102010"><font color=3D"#0000f=
f" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">"Mystique"&nbsp;&nbsp;</font></span></div><br>=
=0A<div dir=3D"ltr" lang=3D"en-us" class=3D"yiv1110194753OutlookMessageHead=
er" align=3D"left">=0A<hr tabindex=3D"-1">=0A<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahom=
a"><b>From:</b> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =0A[mailto:frers-list-ad=
min@lists.frers33.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Scott =0AMarino<br><b>Sent:</b> =
Thursday, October 28, 2010 10:03 AM<br><b>To:</b> =0Afrers-list@lists.frers=
33.com<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [frers-list] keeping the =0Aboat flat<br></fo=
nt><br></div>=0A<div></div>=0A<table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpad=
ding=3D"0">=0A  <tbody>=0A  <tr>=0A    <td valign=3D"top">=0A      <div>All=
 this talk of stoves and weights is interesting but what I really =0A      =
want to know is:&nbsp; </div>=0A      <div>&nbsp;</div>=0A      <div>When g=
oing up wind in 20 to 25 kts do you find it best to use the #3 =0A      wit=
h full main or reef the main and carry a bigger headsail?&nbsp; In the =0A =
     tug of war between a flat boat and a boat that points as high as possi=
ble, =0A      which is better?</div>=0A      <div>&nbsp;</div>=0A      <div=
>Has anyone ever used a #4?</div>=0A      <div>&nbsp;</div>=0A      <div><b=
r><br>--- On <b>Thu, 10/28/10, Arthur Kelley =0A      <i>&lt;akelley@optonl=
ine.net&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br></div>=0A      <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LE=
FT:rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;"><br>From: =
=0A        Arthur Kelley &lt;akelley@optonline.net&gt;<br>Subject: Re: =0A =
       [frers-list]Origo stove and oven<br>To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.co=
m" =0A        &lt;frers-list@lists.frers33.com&gt;<br>Date: Thursday, Octob=
er 28, =0A        2010, 8:31 AM<br><br>=0A        <div id=3D"yiv1110194753y=
iv740517234">=0A        <div>Ah, good point. I stand corrected! &nbsp;Alway=
s check with your =0A        local authority! Remember we do have a designe=
d base Weight of 9000 lbs. =0A        I don't know how many have been weigh=
ed but going below that would be a =0A        clear cut PHRF violation as w=
ell.&nbsp;</div>=0A        <div><br>Art Kelley</div>=0A        <div><br>On =
Oct 28, 2010, at 7:47 AM, Neal Melanson &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_=
blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson=
@gmail.com">neal.melanson@gmail.com</a>&gt; =0A        wrote:<br><br></div>=
=0A        <div></div>=0A        <blockquote type=3D"cite">=0A          <di=
v>=0A          <div>"If you race only PHRF then the one design prescription=
s go out =0A          the window. " - Art Kelley</div>=0A          <div>&nb=
sp;</div>=0A          <div>I have to clarify that even PHRF =0A          di=
scourages&nbsp;modifications.&nbsp; There are serveral =0A          hundred=
&nbsp;pounds the previous owner and I always wanted to strip =0A          o=
ut of Vapor Trail but never did because of the spirit of the =0A          "=
as-built" statement in the PHRF rules, that combined with never =0A        =
  wanting to hear any excuses&nbsp;from the cutthroat SOBs we raced =0A    =
      against up here.</div>=0A          <div>&nbsp;</div>=0A          <div=
>Here is&nbsp;the excerpt from <a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=
=3D"http://phrfne.org/">PHRFNE.org</a>:</div>=0A          <div>=0A         =
 <div>"It is the intention of PHRF-NE to handicap boats in an as-built =0A =
         configuration. PHRF-NE will adjust the handicaps of boats that hav=
e =0A          been altered from the as- built configuration to completely =
compensate =0A          for any expected speed advantage. Variations must b=
e reported to the =0A          Chief Handicapper so that the Fleet can be m=
ore accurately =0A          handicapped."<br></div><br><br></div>=0A       =
   <div class=3D"yiv1110194753yiv740517234gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 28, 2010=
 at 6:33 AM, =0A          Arthur Kelley <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nof=
ollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?=
to=3Dakelley@optonline.net"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=
=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net">a=
kelley@optonline.net</a>&gt;</span> =0A          wrote:<br>=0A          <bl=
ockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDI=
NG-LEFT:1ex;" class=3D"yiv1110194753yiv740517234gmail_quote">=0A           =
 <div>=0A            <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Oops - sorry I mi=
s-spoke.&nbsp; The =0A            water heater is only 15 lbs. It's spelled=
 out in the =0A            rules.</font></div>=0A            <div><font siz=
e=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div>=0A            <div><font size=3D=
"2" face=3D"Arial">Art</font></div>=0A            <div><font size=3D"2" fac=
e=3D"Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div>=0A            <div><font size=3D"2" face=3D=
"Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div>=0A            <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:=
#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN=
-RIGHT:0px;" dir=3D"ltr">=0A              <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;">-=
---- Original Message ----- </div>=0A              <div style=3D"FONT:10pt =
arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4;"><b>From:</b> <a rel=3D"nofollow" title=3D"akelle=
y@optonline.net" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/m=
c/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net">Arthur Kelley</a> </div>=0A          =
    <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;"><b>To:</b> <a rel=3D"nofollow" title=3D=
"frers-list@lists.frers33.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.ma=
il.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com"></a><a rel=3D"no=
follow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose=
?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a> =0A   =
           </div>=0A              <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;"><b>Sent:<=
/b> Wednesday, October 27, =0A              2010 8:27 PM</div>=0A          =
    <div style=3D"FONT:10pt arial;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: =0A              [f=
rers-list]Origo stove and oven</div>=0A              <div><br></div>=0A    =
          <div>Frank,</div>=0A              <div><br></div>=0A             =
 <div>The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of the =0A    =
          bulkhead of the ice box. I sure we would figure out something if =
=0A              you came to a one design event. We definitely want an incl=
usive =0A              fleet but want to protect all owners against someone=
 who just =0A              wants to beat the rules. If you race only PHRF t=
hen the one design =0A              prescriptions go out the window. Howeve=
r to maintain resale and =0A              protect the future owner if they =
want to do one design we suggest =0A              keeping changes modest an=
d reversable.&nbsp;</div>=0A              <div><br></div>=0A              <=
div><br>Art Kelley</div>=0A              <div><br>On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 =
PM, FRANCIS ALBERT &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http:/=
/us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfxalbert@prodigy.net"></a><a rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/c=
ompose?to=3Dfxalbert@prodigy.net">fxalbert@prodigy.net</a>&gt; =0A         =
     wrote:<br><br></div>=0A              <div></div>=0A              <bloc=
kquote type=3D"cite">=0A                <div>=0A                <table bord=
er=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0">=0A                  <tbody>=
=0A                  <tr>=0A                    <td valign=3D"top">=0A     =
                 <div>&nbsp;</div>=0A                      <div>I think Art=
hur hits the spirt of the rule along with =0A                      the lett=
er of it.&nbsp; However, on my boat I not only =0A                      did=
n't get the water heater, I don't even have the shelf =0A                  =
    he's talking about so yikes what kind of weight would I be =0A         =
             adding.&nbsp; Anyone know what the water heater =0A           =
           weighs?&nbsp; </div>=0A                      <div>&nbsp;</div>=
=0A                      <div>Looks like I may not truck the boat up to New=
port =0A                      anytime soon.</div>=0A                      <=
div>&nbsp;</div>=0A                      <div>Frank Albert</div>=0A        =
              <div>&nbsp;</div>=0A                      <div>--- On <b>Wed,=
 10/27/10, Arthur Kelley <i>&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=
=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net"><=
/a><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo=
.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</a>&gt;</=
i></b> =0A                      wrote:<br></div>=0A                      <b=
lockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MA=
RGIN-LEFT:5px;"><br>From: =0A                        Arthur Kelley &lt;<a r=
el=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc=
/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_bla=
nk" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonlin=
e.net">akelley@optonline.net</a>&gt;<br>Subject: =0A                       =
 Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven<br>To: "<a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D=
"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@=
lists.frers33.com"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http:/=
/us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com">frer=
s-list@lists.frers33.com</a>" =0A                        &lt;<a rel=3D"nofo=
llow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?t=
o=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"=
 href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.fr=
ers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a>&gt;<br>Date: =0A               =
         Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM<br><br>=0A                   =
     <div>=0A                        <div>=0A                        <div>L=
ooking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc =0A                     =
   on the site:</div>=0A                        <div><br><span style=3D"FON=
T-FAMILY:Times;FONT-SIZE:18px;">=0A                        <div style=3D"MA=
RGIN-TOP:0px;MARGIN-BOTTOM:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:54px;">=0A                      =
  <div style=3D"FONT-STYLE:italic;MARGIN-TOP:0px;MARGIN-BOTTOM:0px;FONT-SIZ=
E:12px;">5.</div><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT:18px;FONT-STYLE:italic;FONT-SIZ=
E:18px;">If =0A                        the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fue=
l tank (40 lbs, @1/4 =0A                        full) or oven (40 lbs exclu=
ding two burner stove top) =0A                        have been permanently=
 moved, removed, or not obtained =0A                        when the boat w=
as built, a weight equal to the item =0A                        shall be af=
fixed in its intended location during all =0A                        racing=
 events.</span></div></span>=0A                        <div><br></div>=0A  =
                      <div>A few important principles come out.&nbsp;</div>=
=0A                        <div>1. It does not allow that the stove can be =
removed, =0A                        only the oven. We can discuss how to ha=
ndle a missing =0A                        stove in another thread if necess=
ary.&nbsp;</div>=0A                        <div>2. The oven is assumed to b=
e replaceable with 40 =0A                        lbs of weight.&nbsp;</div>=
=0A                        <div>3. Substituted weight must be affixed in th=
e =0A                        intended location.&nbsp;</div>=0A             =
           <div>4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel tank?</div>=0A       =
                 <div><br></div>=0A                        <div>#3 means th=
at hot water heater substitute weight =0A                        for exampl=
e, cannot be consolidated to the bilge, but =0A                        must=
 be in the lazarette on the shelf where the heater =0A                     =
   would have been. With regards to the oven I suspect it =0A              =
          is generally agreed that the weight can be placed in the =0A     =
                   space below the stove not necessarily bolted to the =0A =
                       bottom of the stove. However it should be noted that=
 =0A                        safety, not only the letter of the rules sugges=
t =0A                        (require?) that the weights be affixed so that=
 in the =0A                        event of a knock down that they do not b=
ecome life =0A                        threatening projectiles.&nbsp;</div>=
=0A                        <div><br></div>=0A                        <div>W=
e need to be mindful that the one design rules are =0A                     =
   designed to ensure that an owner who cruises the boat =0A               =
         can remain competitive with another boat which is used =0A        =
                exclusively for racing. It is not designed to be a =0A     =
                   strategy for removing a bunch of distributed weight and =
=0A                        consolidating it centerline below the =0A       =
                 waterline.&nbsp;</div>=0A                        <div><br>=
</div>=0A                        <div>Thoughts?</div>=0A                   =
     <div><br></div>Art Kelley</div>=0A                        <div><br>On =
Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Neal Melanson =0A                        &lt;<a r=
el=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc=
/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_b=
lank" href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@=
gmail.com"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc52=
2.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com"></a><a rel=3D"nof=
ollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?=
to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com">neal.melanson@gmail.com</a>&gt; =0A          =
              wrote:<br><br></div>=0A                        <div></div>=0A=
                        <blockquote type=3D"cite">=0A                      =
    <div>=0A                          <div>...lets all check the Class rule=
s before we start =0A                          on any weight saving program=
s.&nbsp; I started a fire =0A                          storm years ago over=
 PBO Backstays and Carbon Fibre =0A                          Rudders.</div>=
=0A                          <div>&nbsp;</div>=0A                          =
<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A                          <div>&nbsp;</div>=0A         =
                 <div>&nbsp;</div>=0A                          <div>&nbsp;<=
/div>=0A                          <div>On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod=
 Stright =0A                          <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofol=
low" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=
=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"=
http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca"></a><a=
 rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/=
mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_bl=
ank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastli=
nk.ca"></a><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://us.mc522.ma=
il.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca">StrightR@eastlink.ca</a>=
&gt;</span> =0A                          wrote:<br></div>=0A               =
           <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex;">=0A                            <div lang=3D"EN-=
CA">=0A                            <div>=0A                            <div=
><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'serif';COLOR:#002060;FONT-SIZE:12pt;">Anyone =
=0A                            interested in purchasing an Origo stove and =
oven for =0A                            the Frers 33, like new condition se=
ldom used.&nbsp; =0A                            Intend to replace with an O=
rigo two burner stove, =0A                            would consider a trad=
e.</span></div></div>=0A                            <div><span style=3D"FON=
T-FAMILY:'serif';COLOR:#002060;FONT-SIZE:12pt;"></span>&nbsp;</div></div>=
=0A                            <div><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'serif';COLO=
R:#002060;FONT-SIZE:12pt;">Rod</span></div></blockquote></div>=0A          =
                <div><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'serif';COLOR:#002060;FONT-=
SIZE:12pt;">Equinox</span></div></blockquote></div>=0A                     =
   <div><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:'serif';COLOR:#002060;FONT-SIZE:12pt;">9=
02-444-0016</span></div></div></blockquote><br>=0A                      <di=
v></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div></blockquote></blockquote></div></b=
lockquote></div><br></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody=
></table><br> =0A</div></blockquote></div></td></tr></table><br>=0A=0A     =
 
--0-1389501100-1288291370=:61498--