[frers-list] keeping the boat flat
Richard Saunders
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:31:32 -0700 (PDT)
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Chuckle.=A0 You know that Tom can't see the twinkle in you eye or the tongu=
e in =0Ayour cheek........=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=
=0AFrom: David Nauber <dnauber@yahoo.com>=0ATo: frers-list@lists.frers33.co=
m=0ASent: Thu, October 28, 2010 2:42:50 PM=0ASubject: RE: [frers-list] keep=
ing the boat flat=0A=0A=0AWelcome Tom, =0A=0AJust be aware that class assoc=
iation dues for the rich guys with the bigger =0Aboats are MUCH higher.=0A=
=0ARegards,=0A=0ADave Nauber=0AWolverine=0A=0A--- On Thu, 10/28/10, Bruton,=
Tom (GECAS) <Tom.Bruton@gecas.com> wrote:=0A=0A=0A>From: Bruton, Tom (GECA=
S) <Tom.Bruton@gecas.com>=0A>Subject: RE: [frers-list] keeping the boat fla=
t=0A>To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com=0A>Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, =
10:20 AM=0A>=0A>=0A>Gentlemen,=0A>=A0=0A>There is a spy amongst you. I rece=
ntly bought a Frers 36, (a slightly older, =0A>slightly bigger and more IOR=
orientated version of your own boats), and came =0A>across your email grou=
p during a "Frers" websearch and immediately signed up. =0A>Although all th=
is talk of one-design details,=A0and custom sail deals does not =0A>apply t=
o me, the discussion on bulkhead separations was informative, and I have =
=0A>enjoyed all your banter and=A0feel somewhat like a close cousin. Just w=
anted to =0A>announce myself, and if you don't mind continue to=A0enjoy you=
r comments.=0A>Best Regards=0A>Tom Bruton=0A>"Mystique"=A0=A0=0A>=0A>=0A___=
_____________________________=0AFrom: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
=0A[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Scott Marino=0A=
>Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 10:03 AM=0A>To: frers-list@lists.frers33.=
com=0A>Subject: Re: [frers-list] keeping the boat flat=0A>=0A>=0A>All this =
talk of stoves and weights is interesting but what I really want to =0A>kno=
w is:=A0 =0A>=0A>=0A>When going up wind in 20 to 25 kts do you find it best=
to use the #3 with full =0A>main or reef the main and carry a bigger heads=
ail?=A0 In the tug of war between a =0A>flat boat and a boat that points as=
high as possible, which is better?=0A>=0A>Has anyone ever used a #4?=0A>=
=0A>=0A>=0A>--- On Thu, 10/28/10, Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net> wro=
te:=0A>=0A>=0A>>From: Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>=0A>>Subject: Re=
: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven=0A>>To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" <=
frers-list@lists.frers33.com>=0A>>Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 8:31 AM=
=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Ah, good point. I stand corrected! =A0Always check with your=
local authority! =0A>>Remember we do have a designed base Weight of 9000 l=
bs. I don't know how many =0A>>have been weighed but going below that would=
be a clear cut PHRF violation as =0A>>well.=A0=0A>>=0A>>Art Kelley=0A>>=0A=
>>On Oct 28, 2010, at 7:47 AM, Neal Melanson <neal.melanson@gmail.com> wrot=
e:=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>"If you race only PHRF then the one design prescriptions g=
o out the window. " - =0A>>Art Kelley=0A>>>=0A>>>I have to clarify that eve=
n PHRF discourages=A0modifications.=A0 There are serveral =0A>>>hundred=A0p=
ounds the previous owner and I always wanted to strip out of Vapor =0A>>>Tr=
ail but never did because of the spirit of the "as-built" statement in the =
=0A>>>PHRF rules, that combined with never wanting to hear any excuses=A0fr=
om the =0A>>>cutthroat SOBs we raced against up here.=0A>>>=0A>>>Here is=A0=
the excerpt from PHRFNE.org:=0A>>>"It is the intention of PHRF-NE to handic=
ap boats in an as-built configuration. =0A>>>PHRF-NE will adjust the handic=
aps of boats that have been altered from the as- =0A>>>built configuration =
to completely compensate for any expected speed advantage. =0A>>>Variations=
must be reported to the Chief Handicapper so that the Fleet can be =0A>>>m=
ore accurately handicapped."=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at=
6:33 AM, Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net> wrote:=0A>>>=0A>>>Oops - so=
rry I mis-spoke.=A0 The water heater is only 15 lbs. It's spelled out in =
=0A>>>the rules.=0A>>>>=A0=0A>>>>Art=0A>>>>=A0=0A>>>>=A0=0A>>>>----- Origin=
al Message ----- =0A>>>>>From: Arthur Kelley =0A>>>>>To: frers-list@lists.f=
rers33.com =0A>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 8:27 PM=0A>>>>>Subject=
: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Frank,=0A>>>>=
>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>The weight would be 40 lbs and is on the opposite side of =
the bulkhead of the =0A>>>>>ice box. I sure we would figure out something i=
f you came to a one design event. =0A>>>>>We definitely want an inclusive f=
leet but want to protect all owners against =0A>>>>>someone who just wants =
to beat the rules. If you race only PHRF then the one =0A>>>>>design prescr=
iptions go out the window. However to maintain resale and protect =0A>>>>>t=
he future owner if they want to do one design we suggest keeping changes mo=
dest =0A>>>>>and reversable.=A0=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Art Kelley=
=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT <fxalbert@prodi=
gy.net> wrote:=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>I think Arthur hits=
the spirt of the rule along with the letter of it.=A0 However, =0A>>>>>>on=
my boat I not only didn't get the water heater, I don't even have the shel=
f =0A>>>>>>he's talking about so yikes what kind of weight would I be addin=
g.=A0 Anyone know =0A>>>>>>what the water heater weighs?=A0 =0A>>>>>>=0A>>>=
>>>=0A>>>>>>Looks like I may not truck the boat up to Newport anytime soon.=
=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>Frank Albert=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>--- On Wed, 10/27/10, Arthu=
r Kelley <akelley@optonline.net> wrote:=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>From: Ar=
thur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net>=0A>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo=
stove and oven=0A>>>>>>>To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" <frers-list@lis=
ts.frers33.com>=0A>>>>>>>Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM=0A>>>>>=
>>=0A>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>Looking at the rules as spelled out in the Word doc o=
n the site:=0A>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>5.If the hot water heater (15 lbs) or fuel t=
ank (40 lbs, @1/4 full) or oven (40 =0A>>>>>>>lbs excluding two burner stov=
e top) have been permanently moved, removed, or not =0A>>>>>>>obtained when=
the boat was built, a weight equal to the item shall be affixed in =0A>>>>=
>>>its intended location during all racing events.=0A>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>=0A>>=
>>>>>A few important principles come out.=A0=0A>>>>>>>1. It does not allow =
that the stove can be removed, only the oven. We can =0A>>>>>>>discuss how =
to handle a missing stove in another thread if necessary.=A0=0A>>>>>>>2. Th=
e oven is assumed to be replaceable with 40 lbs of weight.=A0=0A>>>>>>>3. S=
ubstituted weight must be affixed in the intended location.=A0=0A>>>>>>>4. =
Anyone want to pull out their fuel tank?=0A>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>#3 me=
ans that hot water heater substitute weight for example, cannot be =0A>>>>>=
>>consolidated to the bilge, but must be in the lazarette on the shelf wher=
e the =0A>>>>>>>heater would have been. With regards to the oven I suspect =
it is generally =0A>>>>>>>agreed that the weight can be placed in the space=
below the stove not =0A>>>>>>>necessarily bolted to the bottom of the stov=
e. However it should be noted that =0A>>>>>>>safety, not only the letter of=
the rules suggest (require?) that the weights be =0A>>>>>>>affixed so that=
in the event of a knock down that they do not become life =0A>>>>>>>threat=
ening projectiles.=A0=0A>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>We need to be mindful th=
at the one design rules are designed to ensure that an =0A>>>>>>>owner who =
cruises the boat can remain competitive with another boat which is =0A>>>>>=
>>used exclusively for racing. It is not designed to be a strategy for remo=
ving a =0A>>>>>>>bunch of distributed weight and consolidating it centerlin=
e below the =0A>>>>>>>waterline.=A0=0A>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>Thoughts?=
=0A>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>Art Kelley=0A>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>On Oct 27, 2010, at 9:25 =
AM, Neal Melanson <neal.melanson@gmail.com> =0A>wrote:=0A>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>=
=0A>>>>>>>...lets all check the Class rules before we start on any weight s=
aving =0A>>>>>>>programs.=A0 I started a fire storm years ago over PBO Back=
stays and Carbon Fibre =0A>>>>>>>Rudders.=0A>>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>>=
=0A>>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>>On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod Strig=
ht <StrightR@eastlink.ca> =0A>wrote:=0A>>>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>>>Anyone interested=
in purchasing an Origo stove and oven for the Frers 33, like =0A>>>>>>>>ne=
w condition seldom used.=A0 Intend to replace with an Origo two burner stov=
e, =0A>>>>>>>>would consider a trade.=0A>>>>>>>>>=A0=0A>>>>>>>>>Rod=0A>>>>>=
>>>Equinox=0A>>>>>>>902-444-0016=0A>>>>> =0A>>> =0A> =0A
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:tahoma, new york, times, serif;font-size=
:10pt"><DIV>Chuckle. You know that Tom can't see the twinkle in you e=
ye or the tongue in your cheek........<BR></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMIL=
Y: tahoma, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"FO=
NT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT =
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0A<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bo=
ld">From:</SPAN></B> David Nauber <dnauber@yahoo.com><BR><B><SPAN sty=
le=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR><B>=
<SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thu, October 28, 2010 2:=
42:50 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [f=
rers-list] keeping the boat flat<BR></FONT><BR>=0A<TABLE border=3D0 cellSpa=
cing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>Welcome Tom, =
=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV>Just be aware that class association dues for the=
rich guys with the bigger boats are MUCH higher.</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=
=0A<DIV>Regards,</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV>Dave Nauber</DIV>=0A<DIV>Wo=
lverine<BR><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 10/28/10, Bruton, Tom (GECAS) <I><Tom.Brut=
on@gecas.com></I></B> wrote:<BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb=
(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Bruto=
n, Tom (GECAS) <Tom.Bruton@gecas.com><BR>Subject: RE: [frers-list] ke=
eping the boat flat<BR>To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR>Date: Thursday, =
October 28, 2010, 10:20 AM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv1110194753>=0A<DIV dir=3D=
ltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3Dyiv1110194753556390914-28102010><FONT color=
=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=3DArial>Gentlemen,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=
=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3Dyiv1110194753556390914-28102010><FONT col=
or=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3D=
ltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3Dyiv1110194753556390914-28102010><FONT color=
=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=3DArial>There is a spy amongst you. I recently bou=
ght a Frers 36, (a slightly older, slightly bigger and more IOR orientated =
version of your own boats), and came across your email group during a "Frer=
s" websearch and immediately signed up. Although all this talk of one-desig=
n details, and custom sail deals does not apply to me, the discussion =
on bulkhead separations was informative, and I have enjoyed all your banter=
and feel somewhat like a close cousin. Just wanted to announce myself=
, and if you don't mind continue to enjoy your comments.</FONT></SPAN>=
</DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3Dyiv1110194753556390914-2=
8102010><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=3DArial>Best Regards</FONT></SP=
AN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3Dyiv111019475355639091=
4-28102010><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=3DArial>Tom Bruton</FONT></S=
PAN></DIV>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3Dyiv11101947535563909=
14-28102010><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=3DArial>"Mystique" &nb=
sp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr lang=3Den-us class=3Dyiv111019=
4753OutlookMessageHeader align=3Dleft>=0A<HR tabIndex=3D-1>=0A<FONT size=3D=
2 face=3DTahoma><B>From:</B> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:fre=
rs-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Scott Marino<BR><B>Sen=
t:</B> Thursday, October 28, 2010 10:03 AM<BR><B>To:</B> frers-list@lists.f=
rers33.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [frers-list] keeping the boat flat<BR></F=
ONT><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPaddin=
g=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<DIV>All this talk of stoves =
and weights is interesting but what I really want to know is: </DIV>=
=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>When going up wind in 20 to 25 kts do you find =
it best to use the #3 with full main or reef the main and carry a bigger he=
adsail? In the tug of war between a flat boat and a boat that points =
as high as possible, which is better?</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>Has =
anyone ever used a #4?</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>T=
hu, 10/28/10, Arthur Kelley <I><akelley@optonline.net></I></B> wrote:=
<BR></DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PA=
DDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Arthur Kelley <akelley@opto=
nline.net><BR>Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven<BR>To: "frer=
s-list@lists.frers33.com" <frers-list@lists.frers33.com><BR>Date: Thu=
rsday, October 28, 2010, 8:31 AM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv1110194753yiv740517=
234>=0A<DIV>Ah, good point. I stand corrected! Always check with your=
local authority! Remember we do have a designed base Weight of 9000 lbs. I=
don't know how many have been weighed but going below that would be a clea=
r cut PHRF violation as well. </DIV>=0A<DIV><BR>Art Kelley</DIV>=0A<DI=
V><BR>On Oct 28, 2010, at 7:47 AM, Neal Melanson <<A href=3D"http://us.m=
c522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com" rel=3Dnofollow=
target=3D_blank>neal.melanson@gmail.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>=0A<DI=
V></DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">=0A<DIV>=0A<DIV>"If you race only PHRF=
then the one design prescriptions go out the window. " - Art Kelley</DIV>=
=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>I have to clarify that even PHRF discourages&nb=
sp;modifications. There are serveral hundred pounds the previous=
owner and I always wanted to strip out of Vapor Trail but never did becaus=
e of the spirit of the "as-built" statement in the PHRF rules, that combine=
d with never wanting to hear any excuses from the cutthroat SOBs we ra=
ced against up here.</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>Here is the exce=
rpt from <A href=3D"http://phrfne.org/" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank>PHRF=
NE.org</A>:</DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<DIV>"It is the intention of PHRF-NE to handica=
p boats in an as-built configuration. PHRF-NE will adjust the handicaps of =
boats that have been altered from the as- built configuration to completely=
compensate for any expected speed advantage. Variations must be reported t=
o the Chief Handicapper so that the Fleet can be more accurately handicappe=
d."<BR></DIV><BR><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV class=3Dyiv1110194753yiv740517234gmail_q=
uote>On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 6:33 AM, Arthur Kelley <SPAN dir=3Dltr><<A =
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.ne=
t" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank></A><A href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo=
.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank>=
akelley@optonline.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORD=
ER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" clas=
s=3Dyiv1110194753yiv740517234gmail_quote>=0A<DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D2 fac=
e=3DArial>Oops - sorry I mis-spoke. The water heater is only 15 lbs. =
It's spelled out in the rules.</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DAr=
ial></FONT> </DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial>Art</FONT></DIV>=
=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=
=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #=
000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir=3Dltr>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Origi=
nal Message ----- </DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e=
4e4"><B>From:</B> <A title=3Dakelley@optonline.net href=3D"http://us.mc522.=
mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net" rel=3Dnofollow target=
=3D_blank>Arthur Kelley</A> </DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:=
</B> <A title=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.y=
ahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel=3Dnofollow targe=
t=3D_blank></A><A href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfr=
ers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank>frers-list@lists=
.frers33.com</A> </DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wedn=
esday, October 27, 2010 8:27 PM</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>=
Subject:</B> Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=
=0A<DIV>Frank,</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV>The weight would be 40 lbs an=
d is on the opposite side of the bulkhead of the ice box. I sure we would f=
igure out something if you came to a one design event. We definitely want a=
n inclusive fleet but want to protect all owners against someone who just w=
ants to beat the rules. If you race only PHRF then the one design prescript=
ions go out the window. However to maintain resale and protect the future o=
wner if they want to do one design we suggest keeping changes modest and re=
versable. </DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV><BR>Art Kelley</DIV>=0A<DIV>=
<BR>On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT <<A href=3D"http://us.mc=
522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfxalbert@prodigy.net" rel=3Dnofollow tar=
get=3D_blank></A><A href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3D=
fxalbert@prodigy.net" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank>fxalbert@prodigy.net</=
A>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">=0A<D=
IV>=0A<TABLE border=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=
=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>I think Arthur hits the spi=
rt of the rule along with the letter of it. However, on my boat I not=
only didn't get the water heater, I don't even have the shelf he's talking=
about so yikes what kind of weight would I be adding. Anyone know wh=
at the water heater weighs? </DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>Looks l=
ike I may not truck the boat up to Newport anytime soon.</DIV>=0A<DIV> =
;</DIV>=0A<DIV>Frank Albert</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>--- On <B>Wed,=
10/27/10, Arthur Kelley <I><<A href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/m=
c/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank></A><A=
href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.n=
et" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank>akelley@optonline.net</A>></I></B> wr=
ote:<BR></DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid=
; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Arthur Kelley <<A href=
=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net" r=
el=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank></A><A href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com=
/mc/compose?to=3Dakelley@optonline.net" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank>akel=
ley@optonline.net</A>><BR>Subject: Re: [frers-list]Origo stove and oven<=
BR>To: "<A href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-lis=
t@lists.frers33.com" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank></A><A href=3D"http://u=
s.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel=3D=
nofollow target=3D_blank>frers-list@lists.frers33.com</A>" <<A href=3D"h=
ttp://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com"=
rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank></A><A href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.c=
om/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_b=
lank>frers-list@lists.frers33.com</A>><BR>Date: Wednesday,
October 27, 2010, 4:32 PM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<DIV>Looking at the ru=
les as spelled out in the Word doc on the site:</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR><SPAN styl=
e=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: 18px">=0A<DIV style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 0px;=
MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 54px">=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-STYLE: italic=
; MARGIN-TOP: 0px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 12px">5.</DIV><SPAN style=
=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: 18px; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-SIZE: 18px">If the hot wate=
r heater (15 lbs) or fuel tank (40 lbs, @1/4 full) or oven (40 lbs excludin=
g two burner stove top) have been permanently moved, removed, or not obtain=
ed when the boat was built, a weight equal to the item shall be affixed in =
its intended location during all racing events.</SPAN></DIV></SPAN>=0A<DIV>=
<BR></DIV>=0A<DIV>A few important principles come out. </DIV>=0A<DIV>1=
. It does not allow that the stove can be removed, only the oven. We can di=
scuss how to handle a missing stove in another thread if necessary. </=
DIV>=0A<DIV>2. The oven is assumed to be replaceable with 40 lbs of weight.=
</DIV>=0A<DIV>3. Substituted weight must be affixed in the intended l=
ocation. </DIV>=0A<DIV>4. Anyone want to pull out their fuel tank?</DI=
V>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV>#3 means that hot water heater substitute weigh=
t for example, cannot be consolidated to the bilge, but must be in the laza=
rette on the shelf where the heater would have been. With regards to the ov=
en I suspect it is generally agreed that the weight can be placed in the sp=
ace below the stove not necessarily bolted to the bottom of the stove. Howe=
ver it should be noted that safety, not only the letter of the rules sugges=
t (require?) that the weights be affixed so that in the event of a knock do=
wn that they do not become life threatening projectiles. </DIV>=0A<DIV=
><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV>We need to be mindful that the one design rules are desi=
gned to ensure that an owner who cruises the boat can remain competitive wi=
th another boat which is used exclusively for racing. It is not designed to=
be a strategy for removing a bunch of distributed weight and consolidating=
it centerline below the waterline. </DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV>Th=
oughts?</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>Art Kelley</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR>On Oct 27, 2010,=
at 9:25 AM, Neal Melanson <<A href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc=
/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank></A><=
A href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmai=
l.com" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank></A><A href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.y=
ahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.melanson@gmail.com" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_=
blank></A><A href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dneal.me=
lanson@gmail.com" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank>neal.melanson@gmail.com</A=
>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">=0A<DI=
V>=0A<DIV>...lets all check the Class rules before we start on any weight s=
aving programs. I started a fire storm years ago over PBO Backstays a=
nd Carbon Fibre Rudders.</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<D=
IV> </DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>On Wed, Oct =
27, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Rod Stright <SPAN dir=3Dltr><<A href=3D"http://us.m=
c811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca" rel=3Dnofollow ta=
rget=3D_blank></A><A href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=
=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank></A><A href=3D"http=
://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca" rel=3Dnofo=
llow target=3D_blank></A><A href=3D"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compo=
se?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca" rel=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank></A><A href=3D=
"http://us.mc522.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3DStrightR@eastlink.ca" rel=
=3Dnofollow target=3D_blank>StrightR@eastlink.ca</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR><=
/DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex">=0A<DIV lang=3DEN-CA>=0A<DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN sty=
le=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Anyone interes=
ted in purchasing an Origo stove and oven for the Frers 33, like new condit=
ion seldom used. Intend to replace with an Origo two burner stove, wo=
uld consider a trade.</SPAN></DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:=
'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV=
><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Rod<=
/SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'serif';=
COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Equinox</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>=
=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'serif'; COLOR: #002060; FONT-SIZE: 12p=
t">902-444-0016</SPAN></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>=0A<DIV></DIV></TD></TR>=
</TBODY></TABLE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><B=
R></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></DIV=
></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></DIV></DIV></div></body>=
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