[frers-list]Frers 38
Arthur Kelley
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:26:38 -0400
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So far we have evidence of only one wing keeled 33 although there may have been more. The one was in Florida with the keel removed but has since been sold. There may be some notes on the web site about it.
Art Kelley
On Aug 19, 2011, at 3:10 PM, Courtney Thomas <courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Frank,
>
> I can't find the draft for the wing keeled Frers33s.
>
> Do you know or know where I can find this information ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Courtney
>
> On 8/19/2011 12:36 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT wrote:
>>
>> Courtney,
>>
>> Wing keels came into vogue with the 1983 Americas Cup victory by Australia II.
>> The problem is that the wing keel on that Americas Cup boat was incredibly perfect for just that boat which gave it the advantage in the cup. That is not at all the case with mass produced wing keels. The mass produced wing keels are little more than shoal draft boats with a wing of sorts attached for additional ballast.
>>
>> As such you don't see them anymore. They were a fad and they produced a shoal draft, which a lot of people loved. What they didn't provide was the performance that was implied.
>>
>> Frank Albert
>>
>> --- On Fri, 8/19/11, Courtney Thomas <courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>> From: Courtney Thomas <courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net>
>> Subject: Re: [frers-list]Frers 38
>> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> Date: Friday, August 19, 2011, 11:49 AM
>>
>> How are the wing keel 33s regarded vis-a-vis other keels, please ?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Courtney
>>
>>
>> On 8/19/2011 10:04 AM, Arthur Kelley wrote:
>>>
>>> That is correct. She overwinters near me. This boat has a wing keel and that may have been much more common on the 38 than the 33. I've never sailed on her. He previously raced a Tartan 10.
>>>
>>> Art Kelley
>>>
>>> On Aug 19, 2011, at 9:46 AM, lessera@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> There is a 38 called Tomahawk in Northport Harbor . I am pretty sure he is a member of the Northport Yacht Club and the name may be Vaughn
>>>> Arnie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Rod Stright <StrightR@eastlink.ca>
>>>> To: frers-list <frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
>>>> Sent: Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:45 am
>>>> Subject: [frers-list]Frers 38
>>>>
>>>> Is anyone here familiar with the Frers 38? It looks much like the 33 but
>>>> has anyone sailed on one or seen them sail or know anyone that has one.
>>>>
>>>> Rod
>>>> Equinox
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
>>>> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of
>>>> frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
>>>> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 2:02 AM
>>>> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>>> Subject: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #456 - 2 msgs
>>>>
>>>> Send frers-list mailing list submissions to
>>>> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>>>
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>> frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Re: complete refit soon underway, what changes would you make ?
>>>> (FRANCIS ALBERT)
>>>> 2. Re: complete refit soon underway, what changes would you make ?
>>>> (FRANCIS ALBERT)
>>>>
>>>> --__--__--
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:35:46 -0700 (PDT)
>>>> From: FRANCIS ALBERT <fxalbert@prodigy.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes would
>>>> you make ?
>>>> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>>> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>>>
>>>> --0-2069569861-1313706946=:24909
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>>>
>>>> Courtney,
>>>> =A0
>>>> Below are the things I'd change on the boat and why.=A0 Have fun and good l=
>>>> uck.
>>>> =A0
>>>> Frank Albert
>>>> RELENTLESS 41621
>>>> =A0
>>>> 1.=A0 Deeper keel about a foot more, all lead, which would add around 300 l=
>>>> bs to the bottom of the keel.=A0 The boat is tender and in a blow you've ne=
>>>> arly always got the toe rail in the water.=A0 Or shorten the mast which wou=
>>>> ld mean all new sails all new rigging but less heel and less power.=A0 I'm =
>>>> pretty sure the boom is set on the mast and cannot be adjusted so you'd pro=
>>>> bably need a whole new rig to keep the boom at the same height.
>>>> =A0
>>>> 2.=A0 Larger rudder/Redesigned rudder.=A0 The rudder on the Frers 33 looks =
>>>> like a normal size rudder but it is=A0undersized.=A0 The boat will round up=
>>>> pretty fast.=A0 I once rounded up so hard we wound up going the other dire=
>>>> ction.
>>>> =A0
>>>> 3.=A0 Side windows that open.=A0 There is NO cross ventilation on that boat=
>>>> .=A0 If your going to spend some bucks then remove the plastic windows that=
>>>> are there now.=A0 Glass up the holes and finish it so it looks like it nev=
>>>> er had any windows.=A0 Then cut out and=A0install 4 windows on each side th=
>>>> at open which will include one in the bathroom.=A0 Boy that would be sweet.
>>>> =A0
>>>> 4.=A0 If this redo includes the interior make the bathroom bigger/wider.=A0=
>>>> Can't go any further into the boat with the head but it could stand to be =
>>>> a bit wider.=A0 Anyone ever notice you have to turn sideways to get into th=
>>>> e bathroom.=A0 Your shoulders won't fit through the door.=A0
>>>> =A0
>>>> 5.=A0 If you're redoing the toe rail track that runs from the back of the b=
>>>> oat to just forward of the side stays then I'd change that from the current=
>>>> 1/2 inch (slide right off the deck toe=A0rail) to the taller 1 and 3/16ths=
>>>> inch.=A0 Now that would be a toe rail that you could really lay your foot =
>>>> up to and the top of the track is flat so if folks were sitting on the rail=
>>>> it wouldn't be digging into the backs of their legs.=A0 I'd install it wit=
>>>> h some pre-cut holes in the bottom so water could drain over the side witho=
>>>> ut having to make it's way all the way to the back of the boat.=A0 You'll h=
>>>> ave to have the entire track bent to match the boat.
>>>> =A0
>>>> 6.=A0 If all you're ever going to do is cruise then add A/C.=A0 There's roo=
>>>> m under the cockpit on the starboard side and it will make life worth livin=
>>>> g on those REALLY hot days at the dock.
>>>> =A0
>>>> 7.=A0 Add a 2nd VHF antenna at the top of the mast.=A0 One for the VHF and =
>>>> one that can be used for an FM RADIO and split so an ADS can be added to th=
>>>> e boat.=A0 Most of the=A0Chart Plotters out there on the market today can a=
>>>> ccept ADS info and overlay the boats on your plotter.=A0 Along with that th=
>>>> ey can tell you your closest point that you will come together and warn you=
>>>> if that means a collision.=A0 I have one and they can see over the horizon=
>>>> because there using the masthead antenna.=A0 They're REALLY great at night=
>>>> !
>>>> =A0
>>>> 8.=A0 Replace the wheel and all parts.=A0 It looks like it Edison but it's =
>>>> not and the pulley's under the deck are set in a cast aluminum bracket that=
>>>> will eventually fail.=A0 One of mine failed, on a windy day.=A0 Also have =
>>>> a custom made tiller made for the boat that will go OVER the wheel and the =
>>>> pedestal.=A0 Trying to drive that boat with the small emergency tiller that=
>>>> came with the boat was BRUTAL.=A0 We had to go no more than 800 yards back=
>>>> to my slip and it took two people on that tiller with it constantly trying=
>>>> to rip its self out of your hands.=A0 Very scary, and I cannot imagine wha=
>>>> t it would be like in any large body of water with waves.
>>>>
>>>> 9.=A0 Add a nice cockpit canopy.=A0 Shade is a wonderful thing on a long ho=
>>>> t sunny day.
>>>> =A0
>>>> 10.=A0 If it doesn't already have one an auto pilot.
>>>>
>>>> --- On Mon, 8/15/11, Courtney Thomas <courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Courtney Thomas <courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net>
>>>> Subject: [frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes would you m=
>>>> ake ?
>>>> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>>> Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 4:14 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ahoy !
>>>>
>>>> I am about to undertake a complete refit of a Frers33 and would appreciate =
>>>> all input regarding
>>>> changes you would make vis-a-vis the original assemblage, if you had the sa=
>>>> me opportunity.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions regarding materials and technique regarding typical mainten=
>>>> ance and restorative
>>>> procedures are welcome as well, of course.
>>>>
>>>> In particular... keel reattachment, hull deck joint, deck reinforcement, ma=
>>>> st support, mast reconfiguration,
>>>> and rigging, both standing and running, and rudder reinstallation... are of=
>>>> particular concern,
>>>> as I'd hate like hell to bear this expense and later come to grief over a c=
>>>> hoice that could easily now be made
>>>> that would have made a much more salutary difference in time to come.
>>>>
>>>> An additional note is that the standing rigging is what I assume was the or=
>>>> iginal 'rod' rigging.
>>>>
>>>> My primary interest is not racing, rather cruising.
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone shortened or otherwise altered the original mast ?
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone gone outboard with the chainplates ?
>>>>
>>>> Please include intended consequences of any suggested alterations.
>>>>
>>>> Hoping to not cause a firestorm from Frers purists=A0 :-)
>>>>
>>>> In any case, no alterations have=A0 been yet made,...
>>>>
>>>> Appreciatively,
>>>>
>>>> Courtney Thomas
>>>>
>>>> -- Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power,
>>>> have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing
>>>> government, and form a new one that suits them better,
>>>> This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right,
>>>> which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.
>>>> Abraham Lincoln
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> frers-list mailing list
>>>> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>>> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>>>>
>>>> --0-2069569861-1313706946=:24909
>>>> Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>>>
>>>> <table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
>>>> top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>Courtney,</DIV>
>>>> <DIV> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV>Below are the things I'd change on the boat and why. Have fun an=
>>>> d good luck.</DIV>
>>>> <DIV> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV>Frank Albert</DIV>
>>>> <DIV>RELENTLESS 41621</DIV>
>>>> <DIV> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV>1. Deeper keel about a foot more, all lead, which would add arou=
>>>> nd 300 lbs to the bottom of the keel. The boat is tender and in a blo=
>>>> w you've nearly always got the toe rail in the water. Or shorten the =
>>>> mast which would mean all new sails all new rigging but less heel and less =
>>>> power. I'm pretty sure the boom is set on the mast and cannot be adju=
>>>> sted so you'd probably need a whole new rig to keep the boom at the same he=
>>>> ight.</DIV>
>>>> <DIV> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV>2. Larger rudder/Redesigned rudder. The rudder on the <SPA=
>>>> N>Frers</SPAN> 33 looks like a normal size rudder but it is undersized=
>>>> . The boat will round up pretty fast. I once rounded up so hard=
>>>> we wound up going the other direction.</DIV>
>>>> <DIV> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV>3. Side windows that open. There is NO cross ventilation o=
>>>> n that boat. If your going to spend some bucks then remove the plasti=
>>>> c windows that are there now. Glass up the holes and finish it so it =
>>>> looks like it never had any windows. Then cut out and install 4 =
>>>> windows on each side that open which will include one in the bathroom. =
>>>> ; Boy that would be sweet.</DIV>
>>>> <DIV> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV>4. If this redo includes the interior make the bathroom bigger/w=
>>>> ider. Can't go any further into the boat with the head but it could s=
>>>> tand to be a bit wider. Anyone ever notice you have to turn sideways =
>>>> to get into the bathroom. Your shoulders won't fit through the door.&=
>>>> nbsp;</DIV>
>>>> <DIV> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV>5. If you're redoing the toe rail track that runs from the back =
>>>> of the boat to just forward of the side stays then I'd change that from the=
>>>> current 1/2 inch (slide right off the deck toe rail) to the taller 1 =
>>>> and 3/16ths inch. Now that would be a toe rail that you could really =
>>>> lay your foot up to and the top of the track is flat so if folks were sitti=
>>>> ng on the rail it wouldn't be digging into the backs of their legs. I=
>>>> 'd install it with some pre-cut holes in the bottom so water could drain ov=
>>>> er the side without having to make it's way all the way to the back of the =
>>>> boat. You'll have to have the entire track bent to match the boat.</D=
>>>> IV>
>>>> <DIV> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV>6. If all you're ever going to do is cruise then add A/C. =
>>>> There's room under the cockpit on the starboard side and it will make life =
>>>> worth living on those REALLY hot days at the dock.</DIV>
>>>> <DIV> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV>7. Add a 2nd VHF antenna at the top of the mast. One for t=
>>>> he VHF and one that can be used for an FM RADIO and split so an ADS can be =
>>>> added to the boat. Most of the Chart Plotters out there on the m=
>>>> arket today can accept ADS info and overlay the boats on your plotter. =
>>>> ; Along with that they can tell you your closest point that you will come t=
>>>> ogether and warn you if that means a collision. I have one and they c=
>>>> an see over the horizon because there using the masthead antenna. The=
>>>> y're REALLY great at night!</DIV>
>>>> <DIV> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV>8. Replace the wheel and all parts. It looks like it Ediso=
>>>> n but it's not and the pulley's under the deck are set in a cast aluminum b=
>>>> racket that will eventually fail. One of mine failed, on a windy day.=
>>>> Also have a custom made tiller made for the boat that will go OVER t=
>>>> he wheel and the pedestal. Trying to drive that boat with the small e=
>>>> mergency tiller that came with the boat was BRUTAL. We had to go no m=
>>>> ore than 800 yards back to my slip and it took two people on that tiller wi=
>>>> th it constantly trying to rip its self out of your hands. Very scary=
>>>> , and I cannot imagine what it would be like in any large body of water wit=
>>>> h waves.</DIV>
>>>> <DIV><BR>9. Add a nice cockpit canopy. Shade is a wonderful thi=
>>>> ng on a long hot sunny day.</DIV>
>>>> <DIV> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV>10. If it doesn't already have one an auto pilot.</DIV>
>>>> <DIV><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 8/15/11, Courtney Thomas <I><courtneycthomas@bel=
>>>> lsouth.net></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
>>>> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5=
>>>> px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Courtney Thomas <courtneycthomas@bellsou=
>>>> th.net><BR>Subject: [<SPAN><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN>frers</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><=
>>>> /SPAN>-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes would you make ?<BR>=
>>>> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR>Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 4:14 PM<=
>>>> BR><BR>
>>>> <DIV class=3DplainMail>Ahoy !<BR><BR>I am about to undertake a complete ref=
>>>> it of a <SPAN>Frers</SPAN>33 and would appreciate all input regarding<BR>ch=
>>>> anges you would make vis-a-vis the original assemblage, if you had the same=
>>>> opportunity.<BR><BR>Any suggestions regarding materials and technique rega=
>>>> rding typical maintenance and restorative<BR>procedures are welcome as well=
>>>> , of course.<BR><BR>In particular... keel reattachment, hull deck joint, de=
>>>> ck reinforcement, mast support, mast reconfiguration,<BR>and rigging, both =
>>>> standing and running, and rudder reinstallation... are of particular concer=
>>>> n,<BR>as I'd hate like hell to bear this expense and later come to grief ov=
>>>> er a choice that could easily now be made<BR>that would have made a much mo=
>>>> re salutary difference in time to come.<BR><BR>An additional note is that t=
>>>> he standing rigging is what I assume was the original 'rod' rigging.<BR><BR=
>>>> >My primary interest is not racing, rather cruising.<BR><BR>Has anyone
>>>> shortened or otherwise altered the original mast ?<BR><BR>Has anyone gone =
>>>> outboard with the chainplates ?<BR><BR>Please include intended consequences=
>>>> of any suggested alterations.<BR><BR>Hoping to not cause a firestorm from =
>>>> Frers purists :-)<BR><BR>In any case, no alterations have been =
>>>> yet made,...<BR><BR>Appreciatively,<BR><BR>Courtney Thomas<BR><BR>-- Any pe=
>>>> ople anywhere, being inclined and having the power,<BR>have the right to ri=
>>>> se up, and shake off the existing<BR>government, and form a new one that su=
>>>> its them better,<BR>This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right=
>>>> ,<BR>which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.<BR>Abraham Lincol=
>>>> n<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>frers-list mail=
>>>> ing list<BR><A href=3D"http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers=
>>>> -list@lists.frers33.com" ymailto=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">fr=
>>>> ers-list@lists.frers33.com</A><BR><A
>>>> href=3D"http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list" target=3D_bl=
>>>> ank>http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list</A><BR></DIV></BLO=
>>>> CKQUOTE></td></tr></table>
>>>> --0-2069569861-1313706946=:24909--
>>>>
>>>> --__--__--
>>>>
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
>>>> From: FRANCIS ALBERT <fxalbert@prodigy.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes would
>>>> you make ?
>>>> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>>> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>>>
>>>> --0-38948252-1313707772=:55173
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>>>
>>>> Joyce,
>>>> =A0
>>>> If you think the Frers 33 is the sweetest sailing Frers ever designed then =
>>>> you've never watched a Frers 36 sail away from you in a race.=A0 The handic=
>>>> ap difference is just 15 seconds but the 36 is much stiffer in a breeze, a =
>>>> lot=A0more interior room and a much, much faster boat.=A0 Like a minute a m=
>>>> ile faster.=A0 It's sails up, and Good by.=A0 There's a much larger differe=
>>>> nce between the two boats than just 36 inches.
>>>> =A0
>>>> The only problem is they made relatively few of them with the asymmetrical =
>>>> keel and those are the really fast ones.
>>>>
>>>> Frank Albert
>>>> RELENTLESS
>>>> 41621
>>>>
>>>> --- On Wed, 8/17/11, joberdorf@optonline.net <joberdorf@optonline.net> wrot=
>>>> e:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: joberdorf@optonline.net <joberdorf@optonline.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes would y=
>>>> ou make ?
>>>> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>>> Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 5:33 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Courtney:
>>>> =A0
>>>> I will let others speak to the class rules specifically. But suffice it to =
>>>> say that=A0 to significantly alter the boat would make the frers a differen=
>>>> t boat. Barry Carroll got a lot right when he designed it. It was Boat of t=
>>>> he Year at that time. By far, the sweetest sailing Frers.=A0 This has nothi=
>>>> ng to do with being a purist-- it has to do with the design of the boat.=20
>>>> However, here is what I know:
>>>> 1. Running backs have been modified on some boats (placement of on deck var=
>>>> ies, mostly between tiller and wheel boats)
>>>> 2. Keel has been slightly modified on some boats.=A0 Wolverine has a slight=
>>>> ly shorter keel that's "thicker" (hence better downwind). Others, have the =
>>>> standard depth keel.=A0 Boats such as Impetuous, and Checkmate (which follo=
>>>> wed Impetuous' lead) faired the trailing edge and therefore extended it to =
>>>> a fine edge. So you'll see slight variations. But these are all allowed wit=
>>>> hin class rules.
>>>> 3. Never heard of anyone shortening the mast.=A0I heard of a Frers 41 owner=
>>>> LENGthening the boom (whichis a real pain in the butt in light air vis a v=
>>>> is the backstay)=A0and another lengthening the mast and keeping the boom. B=
>>>> ut these were entirely different boats.
>>>> 4. Mast Steps have been strengthened in nearly every boat, over time. Mine =
>>>> was done by prior owner at New England Boatworks.
>>>> 5. Rudder bearings have been changed in nearly every boat.=A0 For me, twice=
>>>> so far in 15 yrs.
>>>> 6. Most rod rigging is replaced as it wears, but not reconfigured.=A0 In te=
>>>> rms of other rigging, I've seen different mainsheet arrangements in terms o=
>>>> f block purchase vs. fine tune, and most boats have installed the Harken tr=
>>>> aveller system.
>>>> 7. Spinnaker poles are now carbon fiber, etc, but not changed otherwise.
>>>> =A0
>>>> =A0I presume you bought the Frers because you actually liked the boat?
>>>> =A0
>>>> Joyce (Checkmate owner)
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Courtney Thomas=20
>>>> Date: Monday, August 15, 2011 4:15 pm
>>>> Subject: [frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes would you m=
>>>> ake ?
>>>> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>>>
>>>> > Ahoy !
>>>> >=20
>>>> > I am about to undertake a complete refit of a Frers33 and would=20
>>>> > appreciate all input regarding
>>>> > changes you would make vis-a-vis the original assemblage, if you=20
>>>> > had the=20
>>>> > same opportunity.
>>>> >=20
>>>> > Any suggestions regarding materials and technique regarding=20
>>>> > typical=20
>>>> > maintenance and restorative
>>>> > procedures are welcome as well, of course.
>>>> >=20
>>>> > In particular... keel reattachment, hull deck joint, deck=20
>>>> > reinforcement,=20
>>>> > mast support, mast reconfiguration,
>>>> > and rigging, both standing and running, and rudder=20
>>>> > reinstallation... are=20
>>>> > of particular concern,
>>>> > as I'd hate like hell to bear this expense and later come to=20
>>>> > grief over=20
>>>> > a choice that could easily now be made
>>>> > that would have made a much more salutary difference in time to come.
>>>> >=20
>>>> > An additional note is that the standing rigging is what I assume=20
>>>> > was the=20
>>>> > original 'rod' rigging.
>>>> >=20
>>>> > My primary interest is not racing, rather cruising.
>>>> >=20
>>>> > Has anyone shortened or otherwise altered the original mast ?
>>>> >=20
>>>> > Has anyone gone outboard with the chainplates ?
>>>> >=20
>>>> > Please include intended consequences of any suggested alterations.
>>>> >=20
>>>> > Hoping to not cause a firestorm from Frers purists :-)
>>>> >=20
>>>> > In any case, no alterations have been yet made,...
>>>> >=20
>>>> > Appreciatively,
>>>> >=20
>>>> > Courtney Thomas
>>>> >=20
>>>> > --=20
>>>> > Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power,
>>>> > have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing
>>>> > government, and form a new one that suits them better,
>>>> > This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right,
>>>> > which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.
>>>> > Abraham Lincoln
>>>> >=20
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > frers-list mailing list
>>>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>>> > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>>>> >
>>>> --0-38948252-1313707772=:55173
>>>> Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>>>
>>>> <table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
>>>> top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>Joyce,</DIV>
>>>> <DIV> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV>If you think the Frers 33 is the sweetest sailing Frers ever designed =
>>>> then you've never watched a Frers 36 sail away from you in a race. Th=
>>>> e handicap difference is just 15 seconds but the 36 is much stiffer in a br=
>>>> eeze, a lot more interior room and a much, much faster boat. Lik=
>>>> e a minute a mile faster. It's sails up, and Good by. There's a=
>>>> much larger difference between the two boats than just 36 inches.</DIV>
>>>> <DIV> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV>The only problem is they made relatively few of them with the asymmetr=
>>>> ical keel and those are the really fast ones.<BR></DIV>
>>>> <DIV>Frank Albert</DIV>
>>>> <DIV>RELENTLESS</DIV>
>>>> <DIV>41621</DIV>
>>>> <DIV><BR>--- On <B>Wed, 8/17/11, joberdorf@optonline.net <I><joberdorf@o=
>>>> ptonline.net></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
>>>> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5=
>>>> px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: joberdorf@optonline.net <joberdorf@opton=
>>>> line.net><BR>Subject: Re: [<SPAN>frers</SPAN>-list]complete refit soon u=
>>>> nderway, what changes would you make ?<BR>To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com<=
>>>> BR>Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 5:33 PM<BR><BR>
>>>> <DIV id=3Dyiv1100525606>
>>>> <DIV>Courtney:</DIV>
>>>> <DIV> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV>I will let others speak to the class rules specifically. But suffice i=
>>>> t to say that to significantly alter the boat would make the frers a =
>>>> different boat. Barry Carroll got a lot right when he designed it. It was B=
>>>> oat of the Year at that time. By far, the sweetest sailing Frers. Thi=
>>>> s has nothing to do with being a purist-- it has to do with the design of t=
>>>> he boat. </DIV>
>>>> <DIV>However, here is what I know:</DIV>
>>>> <DIV>1. Running backs have been modified on some boats (placement of on dec=
>>>> k varies, mostly between tiller and wheel boats)</DIV>
>>>> <DIV>2. Keel has been slightly modified on some boats. Wolverine has =
>>>> a slightly shorter keel that's "thicker" (hence better downwind). Others, h=
>>>> ave the standard depth keel. Boats such as Impetuous, and Checkmate (=
>>>> which followed Impetuous' lead) faired the trailing edge and therefore exte=
>>>> nded it to a fine edge. So you'll see slight variations. But these are all =
>>>> allowed within class rules.</DIV>
>>>> <DIV>3. Never heard of anyone shortening the mast. I heard of a Frers =
>>>> 41 owner LENGthening the boom (whichis a real pain in the butt in light air=
>>>> vis a vis the backstay) and another lengthening the mast and keeping =
>>>> the boom. But these were entirely different boats.</DIV>
>>>> <DIV>4. Mast Steps have been strengthened in nearly every boat, over time. =
>>>> Mine was done by prior owner at New England Boatworks.</DIV>
>>>> <DIV>5. Rudder bearings have been changed in nearly every boat. For m=
>>>> e, twice so far in 15 yrs.</DIV>
>>>> <DIV>6. Most rod rigging is replaced as it wears, but not reconfigured.&nbs=
>>>> p; In terms of other rigging, I've seen different mainsheet arrangements in=
>>>> terms of block purchase vs. fine tune, and most boats have installed the H=
>>>> arken traveller system.</DIV>
>>>> <DIV>7. Spinnaker poles are now carbon fiber, etc, but not changed otherwis=
>>>> e.</DIV>
>>>> <DIV> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV> I presume you bought the Frers because you actually liked the bo=
>>>> at?</DIV>
>>>> <DIV> </DIV>
>>>> <DIV>Joyce (Checkmate owner)</DIV>
>>>> <DIV><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Courtney Thomas <BR>Date: Mo=
>>>> nday, August 15, 2011 4:15 pm<BR>Subject: [frers-list]complete refit soon u=
>>>> nderway, what changes would you make ?<BR>To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com<=
>>>> BR><BR>> Ahoy !<BR>> <BR>> I am about to undertake a complete refi=
>>>> t of a Frers33 and would <BR>> appreciate all input regarding<BR>> ch=
>>>> anges you would make vis-a-vis the original assemblage, if you <BR>> had=
>>>> the <BR>> same opportunity.<BR>> <BR>> Any suggestions regarding =
>>>> materials and technique regarding <BR>> typical <BR>> maintenance and=
>>>> restorative<BR>> procedures are welcome as well, of course.<BR>> <BR=
>>>> >> In particular... keel reattachment, hull deck joint, deck <BR>> re=
>>>> inforcement, <BR>> mast support, mast reconfiguration,<BR>> and riggi=
>>>> ng, both standing and running, and rudder <BR>> reinstallation... are <B=
>>>> R>> of particular concern,<BR>> as I'd hate like hell to bear
>>>> this expense and later come to <BR>> grief over <BR>> a choice that =
>>>> could easily now be made<BR>> that would have made a much more salutary =
>>>> difference in time to come.<BR>> <BR>> An additional note is that the=
>>>> standing rigging is what I assume <BR>> was the <BR>> original 'rod'=
>>>> rigging.<BR>> <BR>> My primary interest is not racing, rather cruisi=
>>>> ng.<BR>> <BR>> Has anyone shortened or otherwise altered the original=
>>>> mast ?<BR>> <BR>> Has anyone gone outboard with the chainplates ?<BR=
>>>> >> <BR>> Please include intended consequences of any suggested altera=
>>>> tions.<BR>> <BR>> Hoping to not cause a firestorm from Frers purists =
>>>> :-)<BR>> <BR>> In any case, no alterations have been yet made,...<BR>=
>>>> > <BR>> Appreciatively,<BR>> <BR>> Courtney Thomas<BR>> <BR>=
>>>> > -- <BR>> Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power,<=
>>>> BR>> have the right to rise up, and shake off the
>>>> existing<BR>> government, and form a new one that suits them better,<BR=
>>>> >> This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right,<BR>> whic=
>>>> h we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.<BR>> Abraham Lincoln<BR=
>>>> >> <BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> frer=
>>>> s-list mailing list<BR>> frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR>> http://lis=
>>>> ts.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list<BR>> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE=
>>>> ></td></tr></table>
>>>> --0-38948252-1313707772=:55173--
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --__--__--
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> frers-list mailing list
>>>> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>>> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> End of frers-list Digest
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> frers-list mailing list
>>>> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>>> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>>>
>>
>
--Boundary_(ID_jTEnXRB9PfQYxo5ziry2zQ)
Content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>So far we have evidence of only one wing keeled 33 although there may have been more. The one was in Florida with the keel removed but has since been sold. There may be some notes on the web site about it. <br><br>Art Kelley</div><div><br>On Aug 19, 2011, at 3:10 PM, Courtney Thomas <<a href="mailto:courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net">courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
Frank,<br>
<br>
I can't find the draft for the wing keeled Frers33s. <br>
<br>
Do you know or know where I can find this information ?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Courtney<br>
<br>
On 8/19/2011 12:36 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:1313771770.38507.YahooMailClassic@web82901.mail.mud.yahoo.com" type="cite">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="font: inherit;" valign="top">
<div>Courtney,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Wing keels came into vogue with the 1983 Americas
Cup victory by Australia II. <br>
</div>
<div>The problem is that the wing keel on that Americas
Cup boat was incredibly perfect for just that boat which
gave it the advantage in the cup. That is not at all
the case with mass produced wing keels. The mass
produced wing keels are little more than shoal draft
boats with a wing of sorts attached for additional
ballast.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>As such you don't see them anymore. They were a fad
and they produced a shoal draft, which a lot of people
loved. What they didn't provide was the performance
that was implied.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Frank Albert</div>
<div><br>
--- On <b>Fri, 8/19/11, Courtney Thomas <i><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net"><<a href="mailto:courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net">courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net</a>></a></i></b>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid;
PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><br>
From: Courtney Thomas
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net"><<a href="mailto:courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net">courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net</a>></a><br>
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Frers 38<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"><a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a><br>
Date: Friday, August 19, 2011, 11:49 AM<br>
<br>
<div id="yiv623793273">How are the wing keel 33s
regarded <span>vis</span>-a-vis other keels, please ?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Courtney<br>
<br>
<br>
On 8/19/2011 10:04 AM, Arthur Kelley wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>That is correct. She overwinters near me. This
boat has a wing keel and that may have been much
more common on the 38 than the 33. I've never
sailed on her. He previously raced a Tartan 10. <br>
<br>
Art Kelley</div>
<div><br>
On Aug 19, 2011, at 9:46 AM, <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lessera@aol.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:lessera@aol.com"><a href="mailto:lessera@aol.com">lessera@aol.com</a></a>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font color="black" face="arial" size="2">There
is a 38 called Tomahawk in Northport Harbor .
I am pretty sure he is a member of the
Northport Yacht Club and the name may be
Vaughn
<div>Arnie<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, arial;
COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Rod Stright <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=StrightR@eastlink.ca" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:StrightR@eastlink.ca"><a href="mailto:StrightR@eastlink.ca">StrightR@eastlink.ca</a></a>><br>
To: frers-list <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=frers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"><a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a>><br>
Sent: Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:45 am<br>
Subject: [frers-list]Frers 38<br>
<br>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff;
MARGIN: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma,
Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; COLOR: #000;
FONT-SIZE: 12px" id="yiv623793273AOLMsgPart_0_5867fa2e-cda9-4c79-aaf2-65b997e6d553">
<pre style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><tt>Is anyone here familiar with the Frers 38? It looks much like the 33 but
has anyone sailed on one or seen them sail or know anyone that has one.
Rod
Equinox
-----Original Message-----
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com"><a href="mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com">frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com</a></a>
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Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 2:02 AM
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Subject: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #456 - 2 msgs
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: complete refit soon underway, what changes would you make ?
(FRANCIS ALBERT)
2. Re: complete refit soon underway, what changes would you make ?
(FRANCIS ALBERT)
--__--__--
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:35:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: FRANCIS ALBERT <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=fxalbert@prodigy.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:fxalbert@prodigy.net"><a href="mailto:fxalbert@prodigy.net">fxalbert@prodigy.net</a></a>>
Subject: Re: [frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes would
you make ?
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=frers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"><a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a>
Reply-To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=frers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"><a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a>
--0-2069569861-1313706946=:24909
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Courtney,
=A0
Below are the things I'd change on the boat and why.=A0 Have fun and good l=
uck.
=A0
Frank Albert
RELENTLESS 41621
=A0
1.=A0 Deeper keel about a foot more, all lead, which would add around 300 l=
bs to the bottom of the keel.=A0 The boat is tender and in a blow you've ne=
arly always got the toe rail in the water.=A0 Or shorten the mast which wou=
ld mean all new sails all new rigging but less heel and less power.=A0 I'm =
pretty sure the boom is set on the mast and cannot be adjusted so you'd pro=
bably need a whole new rig to keep the boom at the same height.
=A0
2.=A0 Larger rudder/Redesigned rudder.=A0 The rudder on the Frers 33 looks =
like a normal size rudder but it is=A0undersized.=A0 The boat will round up=
pretty fast.=A0 I once rounded up so hard we wound up going the other dire=
ction.
=A0
3.=A0 Side windows that open.=A0 There is NO cross ventilation on that boat=
.=A0 If your going to spend some bucks then remove the plastic windows that=
are there now.=A0 Glass up the holes and finish it so it looks like it nev=
er had any windows.=A0 Then cut out and=A0install 4 windows on each side th=
at open which will include one in the bathroom.=A0 Boy that would be sweet.
=A0
4.=A0 If this redo includes the interior make the bathroom bigger/wider.=A0=
Can't go any further into the boat with the head but it could stand to be =
a bit wider.=A0 Anyone ever notice you have to turn sideways to get into th=
e bathroom.=A0 Your shoulders won't fit through the door.=A0
=A0
5.=A0 If you're redoing the toe rail track that runs from the back of the b=
oat to just forward of the side stays then I'd change that from the current=
1/2 inch (slide right off the deck toe=A0rail) to the taller 1 and 3/16ths=
inch.=A0 Now that would be a toe rail that you could really lay your foot =
up to and the top of the track is flat so if folks were sitting on the rail=
it wouldn't be digging into the backs of their legs.=A0 I'd install it wit=
h some pre-cut holes in the bottom so water could drain over the side witho=
ut having to make it's way all the way to the back of the boat.=A0 You'll h=
ave to have the entire track bent to match the boat.
=A0
6.=A0 If all you're ever going to do is cruise then add A/C.=A0 There's roo=
m under the cockpit on the starboard side and it will make life worth livin=
g on those REALLY hot days at the dock.
=A0
7.=A0 Add a 2nd VHF antenna at the top of the mast.=A0 One for the VHF and =
one that can be used for an FM RADIO and split so an ADS can be added to th=
e boat.=A0 Most of the=A0Chart Plotters out there on the market today can a=
ccept ADS info and overlay the boats on your plotter.=A0 Along with that th=
ey can tell you your closest point that you will come together and warn you=
if that means a collision.=A0 I have one and they can see over the horizon=
because there using the masthead antenna.=A0 They're REALLY great at night=
!
=A0
8.=A0 Replace the wheel and all parts.=A0 It looks like it Edison but it's =
not and the pulley's under the deck are set in a cast aluminum bracket that=
will eventually fail.=A0 One of mine failed, on a windy day.=A0 Also have =
a custom made tiller made for the boat that will go OVER the wheel and the =
pedestal.=A0 Trying to drive that boat with the small emergency tiller that=
came with the boat was BRUTAL.=A0 We had to go no more than 800 yards back=
to my slip and it took two people on that tiller with it constantly trying=
to rip its self out of your hands.=A0 Very scary, and I cannot imagine wha=
t it would be like in any large body of water with waves.
9.=A0 Add a nice cockpit canopy.=A0 Shade is a wonderful thing on a long ho=
t sunny day.
=A0
10.=A0 If it doesn't already have one an auto pilot.
--- On Mon, 8/15/11, Courtney Thomas <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net"><a href="mailto:courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net">courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net</a></a>> wrote:
From: Courtney Thomas <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net"><a href="mailto:courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net">courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net</a></a>>
Subject: [frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes would you m=
ake ?
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=frers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"><a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a>
Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 4:14 PM
Ahoy !
I am about to undertake a complete refit of a Frers33 and would appreciate =
all input regarding
changes you would make vis-a-vis the original assemblage, if you had the sa=
me opportunity.
Any suggestions regarding materials and technique regarding typical mainten=
ance and restorative
procedures are welcome as well, of course.
In particular... keel reattachment, hull deck joint, deck reinforcement, ma=
st support, mast reconfiguration,
and rigging, both standing and running, and rudder reinstallation... are of=
particular concern,
as I'd hate like hell to bear this expense and later come to grief over a c=
hoice that could easily now be made
that would have made a much more salutary difference in time to come.
An additional note is that the standing rigging is what I assume was the or=
iginal 'rod' rigging.
My primary interest is not racing, rather cruising.
Has anyone shortened or otherwise altered the original mast ?
Has anyone gone outboard with the chainplates ?
Please include intended consequences of any suggested alterations.
Hoping to not cause a firestorm from Frers purists=A0 :-)
In any case, no alterations have=A0 been yet made,...
Appreciatively,
Courtney Thomas
-- Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power,
have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing
government, and form a new one that suits them better,
This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right,
which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.
Abraham Lincoln
_______________________________________________
frers-list mailing list
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>Courtney,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Below are the things I'd change on the boat and why.&nbsp; Have fun an=
d good luck.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Frank Albert</DIV>
<DIV>RELENTLESS 41621</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>1.&nbsp; Deeper keel about a foot more, all lead, which would add arou=
nd 300 lbs to the bottom of the keel.&nbsp; The boat is tender and in a blo=
w you've nearly always got the toe rail in the water.&nbsp; Or shorten the =
mast which would mean all new sails all new rigging but less heel and less =
power.&nbsp; I'm pretty sure the boom is set on the mast and cannot be adju=
sted so you'd probably need a whole new rig to keep the boom at the same he=
ight.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>2.&nbsp; Larger rudder/Redesigned rudder.&nbsp; The rudder on the <SPA=
N>Frers</SPAN> 33 looks like a normal size rudder but it is&nbsp;undersized=
.&nbsp; The boat will round up pretty fast.&nbsp; I once rounded up so hard=
we wound up going the other direction.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>3.&nbsp; Side windows that open.&nbsp; There is NO cross ventilation o=
n that boat.&nbsp; If your going to spend some bucks then remove the plasti=
c windows that are there now.&nbsp; Glass up the holes and finish it so it =
looks like it never had any windows.&nbsp; Then cut out and&nbsp;install 4 =
windows on each side that open which will include one in the bathroom.&nbsp=
; Boy that would be sweet.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>4.&nbsp; If this redo includes the interior make the bathroom bigger/w=
ider.&nbsp; Can't go any further into the boat with the head but it could s=
tand to be a bit wider.&nbsp; Anyone ever notice you have to turn sideways =
to get into the bathroom.&nbsp; Your shoulders won't fit through the door.&=
nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>5.&nbsp; If you're redoing the toe rail track that runs from the back =
of the boat to just forward of the side stays then I'd change that from the=
current 1/2 inch (slide right off the deck toe&nbsp;rail) to the taller 1 =
and 3/16ths inch.&nbsp; Now that would be a toe rail that you could really =
lay your foot up to and the top of the track is flat so if folks were sitti=
ng on the rail it wouldn't be digging into the backs of their legs.&nbsp; I=
'd install it with some pre-cut holes in the bottom so water could drain ov=
er the side without having to make it's way all the way to the back of the =
boat.&nbsp; You'll have to have the entire track bent to match the boat.</D=
IV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>6.&nbsp; If all you're ever going to do is cruise then add A/C.&nbsp; =
There's room under the cockpit on the starboard side and it will make life =
worth living on those REALLY hot days at the dock.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>7.&nbsp; Add a 2nd VHF antenna at the top of the mast.&nbsp; One for t=
he VHF and one that can be used for an FM RADIO and split so an ADS can be =
added to the boat.&nbsp; Most of the&nbsp;Chart Plotters out there on the m=
arket today can accept ADS info and overlay the boats on your plotter.&nbsp=
; Along with that they can tell you your closest point that you will come t=
ogether and warn you if that means a collision.&nbsp; I have one and they c=
an see over the horizon because there using the masthead antenna.&nbsp; The=
y're REALLY great at night!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>8.&nbsp; Replace the wheel and all parts.&nbsp; It looks like it Ediso=
n but it's not and the pulley's under the deck are set in a cast aluminum b=
racket that will eventually fail.&nbsp; One of mine failed, on a windy day.=
&nbsp; Also have a custom made tiller made for the boat that will go OVER t=
he wheel and the pedestal.&nbsp; Trying to drive that boat with the small e=
mergency tiller that came with the boat was BRUTAL.&nbsp; We had to go no m=
ore than 800 yards back to my slip and it took two people on that tiller wi=
th it constantly trying to rip its self out of your hands.&nbsp; Very scary=
, and I cannot imagine what it would be like in any large body of water wit=
h waves.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>9.&nbsp; Add a nice cockpit canopy.&nbsp; Shade is a wonderful thi=
ng on a long hot sunny day.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>10.&nbsp; If it doesn't already have one an auto pilot.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 8/15/11, Courtney Thomas <I>&lt;courtneycthomas@bel=
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lsouth.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><a href="http://lsouth.net">lsouth.net</a></a>&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5=
px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Courtney Thomas &lt;courtneycthomas@bellsou=
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://th.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><a href="http://th.net">th.net</a></a>&gt;<BR>Subject: [<SPAN><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN>frers</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><=
/SPAN>-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes would you make ?<BR>=
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=frers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"><a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a><BR>Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 4:14 PM<=
BR><BR>
<DIV class=3DplainMail>Ahoy !<BR><BR>I am about to undertake a complete ref=
it of a <SPAN>Frers</SPAN>33 and would appreciate all input regarding<BR>ch=
anges you would make vis-a-vis the original assemblage, if you had the same=
opportunity.<BR><BR>Any suggestions regarding materials and technique rega=
rding typical maintenance and restorative<BR>procedures are welcome as well=
, of course.<BR><BR>In particular... keel reattachment, hull deck joint, de=
ck reinforcement, mast support, mast reconfiguration,<BR>and rigging, both =
standing and running, and rudder reinstallation... are of particular concer=
n,<BR>as I'd hate like hell to bear this expense and later come to grief ov=
er a choice that could easily now be made<BR>that would have made a much mo=
re salutary difference in time to come.<BR><BR>An additional note is that t=
he standing rigging is what I assume was the original 'rod' rigging.<BR><BR=
>My primary interest is not racing, rather cruising.<BR><BR>Has anyone
shortened or otherwise altered the original mast ?<BR><BR>Has anyone gone =
outboard with the chainplates ?<BR><BR>Please include intended consequences=
of any suggested alterations.<BR><BR>Hoping to not cause a firestorm from =
Frers purists&nbsp; :-)<BR><BR>In any case, no alterations have&nbsp; been =
yet made,...<BR><BR>Appreciatively,<BR><BR>Courtney Thomas<BR><BR>-- Any pe=
ople anywhere, being inclined and having the power,<BR>have the right to ri=
se up, and shake off the existing<BR>government, and form a new one that su=
its them better,<BR>This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right=
,<BR>which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.<BR>Abraham Lincol=
n<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>frers-list mail=
ing list<BR><A href=3D"<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers=" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><a href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers=">http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3Dfrers=</a></a>
-<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=list@lists.frers33.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:list@lists.frers33.com"><a href="mailto:list@lists.frers33.com">list@lists.frers33.com</a></a>" ymailto=3D"<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=frers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"><a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a>">fr=
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:ers-list@lists.frers33.com"><a href="mailto:ers-list@lists.frers33.com">ers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a></A><BR><A
href=3D"<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><a href="http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list">http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list</a></a>" target=3D_bl=
ank><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list%3C/A%3E%3CBR%3E%3C/DIV%3E" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><a href="http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list</A><BR></DIV>">http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list</A><BR></DIV></a></a></BLO=
CKQUOTE></td></tr></table>
--0-2069569861-1313706946=:24909--
--__--__--
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: FRANCIS ALBERT <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=fxalbert@prodigy.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:fxalbert@prodigy.net"><a href="mailto:fxalbert@prodigy.net">fxalbert@prodigy.net</a></a>>
Subject: Re: [frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes would
you make ?
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=frers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"><a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a>
Reply-To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=frers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"><a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a>
--0-38948252-1313707772=:55173
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Joyce,
=A0
If you think the Frers 33 is the sweetest sailing Frers ever designed then =
you've never watched a Frers 36 sail away from you in a race.=A0 The handic=
ap difference is just 15 seconds but the 36 is much stiffer in a breeze, a =
lot=A0more interior room and a much, much faster boat.=A0 Like a minute a m=
ile faster.=A0 It's sails up, and Good by.=A0 There's a much larger differe=
nce between the two boats than just 36 inches.
=A0
The only problem is they made relatively few of them with the asymmetrical =
keel and those are the really fast ones.
Frank Albert
RELENTLESS
41621
--- On Wed, 8/17/11, <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joberdorf@optonline.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:joberdorf@optonline.net"><a href="mailto:joberdorf@optonline.net">joberdorf@optonline.net</a></a> <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joberdorf@optonline.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:joberdorf@optonline.net"><a href="mailto:joberdorf@optonline.net">joberdorf@optonline.net</a></a>> wrot=
e:
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joberdorf@optonline.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:joberdorf@optonline.net"><a href="mailto:joberdorf@optonline.net">joberdorf@optonline.net</a></a> <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joberdorf@optonline.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:joberdorf@optonline.net"><a href="mailto:joberdorf@optonline.net">joberdorf@optonline.net</a></a>>
Subject: Re: [frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes would y=
ou make ?
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=frers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"><a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a>
Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 5:33 PM
Courtney:
=A0
I will let others speak to the class rules specifically. But suffice it to =
say that=A0 to significantly alter the boat would make the frers a differen=
t boat. Barry Carroll got a lot right when he designed it. It was Boat of t=
he Year at that time. By far, the sweetest sailing Frers.=A0 This has nothi=
ng to do with being a purist-- it has to do with the design of the boat.=20
However, here is what I know:
1. Running backs have been modified on some boats (placement of on deck var=
ies, mostly between tiller and wheel boats)
2. Keel has been slightly modified on some boats.=A0 Wolverine has a slight=
ly shorter keel that's "thicker" (hence better downwind). Others, have the =
standard depth keel.=A0 Boats such as Impetuous, and Checkmate (which follo=
wed Impetuous' lead) faired the trailing edge and therefore extended it to =
a fine edge. So you'll see slight variations. But these are all allowed wit=
hin class rules.
3. Never heard of anyone shortening the mast.=A0I heard of a Frers 41 owner=
LENGthening the boom (whichis a real pain in the butt in light air vis a v=
is the backstay)=A0and another lengthening the mast and keeping the boom. B=
ut these were entirely different boats.
4. Mast Steps have been strengthened in nearly every boat, over time. Mine =
was done by prior owner at New England Boatworks.
5. Rudder bearings have been changed in nearly every boat.=A0 For me, twice=
so far in 15 yrs.
6. Most rod rigging is replaced as it wears, but not reconfigured.=A0 In te=
rms of other rigging, I've seen different mainsheet arrangements in terms o=
f block purchase vs. fine tune, and most boats have installed the Harken tr=
aveller system.
7. Spinnaker poles are now carbon fiber, etc, but not changed otherwise.
=A0
=A0I presume you bought the Frers because you actually liked the boat?
=A0
Joyce (Checkmate owner)
----- Original Message -----
From: Courtney Thomas=20
Date: Monday, August 15, 2011 4:15 pm
Subject: [frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes would you m=
ake ?
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=frers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"><a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a>
> Ahoy !
>=20
> I am about to undertake a complete refit of a Frers33 and would=20
> appreciate all input regarding
> changes you would make vis-a-vis the original assemblage, if you=20
> had the=20
> same opportunity.
>=20
> Any suggestions regarding materials and technique regarding=20
> typical=20
> maintenance and restorative
> procedures are welcome as well, of course.
>=20
> In particular... keel reattachment, hull deck joint, deck=20
> reinforcement,=20
> mast support, mast reconfiguration,
> and rigging, both standing and running, and rudder=20
> reinstallation... are=20
> of particular concern,
> as I'd hate like hell to bear this expense and later come to=20
> grief over=20
> a choice that could easily now be made
> that would have made a much more salutary difference in time to come.
>=20
> An additional note is that the standing rigging is what I assume=20
> was the=20
> original 'rod' rigging.
>=20
> My primary interest is not racing, rather cruising.
>=20
> Has anyone shortened or otherwise altered the original mast ?
>=20
> Has anyone gone outboard with the chainplates ?
>=20
> Please include intended consequences of any suggested alterations.
>=20
> Hoping to not cause a firestorm from Frers purists :-)
>=20
> In any case, no alterations have been yet made,...
>=20
> Appreciatively,
>=20
> Courtney Thomas
>=20
> --=20
> Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power,
> have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing
> government, and form a new one that suits them better,
> This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right,
> which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.
> Abraham Lincoln
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> frers-list mailing list
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=frers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"><a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><a href="http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list">http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list</a></a>
>
--0-38948252-1313707772=:55173
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>Joyce,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>If you think the Frers 33 is the sweetest sailing Frers ever designed =
then you've never watched a Frers 36 sail away from you in a race.&nbsp; Th=
e handicap difference is just 15 seconds but the 36 is much stiffer in a br=
eeze, a lot&nbsp;more interior room and a much, much faster boat.&nbsp; Lik=
e a minute a mile faster.&nbsp; It's sails up, and Good by.&nbsp; There's a=
much larger difference between the two boats than just 36 inches.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The only problem is they made relatively few of them with the asymmetr=
ical keel and those are the really fast ones.<BR></DIV>
<DIV>Frank Albert</DIV>
<DIV>RELENTLESS</DIV>
<DIV>41621</DIV>
<DIV><BR>--- On <B>Wed, 8/17/11, <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joberdorf@optonline.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:joberdorf@optonline.net"><a href="mailto:joberdorf@optonline.net">joberdorf@optonline.net</a></a> <I>&lt;joberdorf@o=
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://ptonline.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><a href="http://ptonline.net">ptonline.net</a></a>&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5=
px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joberdorf@optonline.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:joberdorf@optonline.net"><a href="mailto:joberdorf@optonline.net">joberdorf@optonline.net</a></a> &lt;joberdorf@opton=
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://line.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><a href="http://line.net">line.net</a></a>&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: [<SPAN>frers</SPAN>-list]complete refit soon u=
nderway, what changes would you make ?<BR>To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=frers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"><a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a><=
BR>Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 5:33 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv1100525606>
<DIV>Courtney:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I will let others speak to the class rules specifically. But suffice i=
t to say that&nbsp; to significantly alter the boat would make the frers a =
different boat. Barry Carroll got a lot right when he designed it. It was B=
oat of the Year at that time. By far, the sweetest sailing Frers.&nbsp; Thi=
s has nothing to do with being a purist-- it has to do with the design of t=
he boat. </DIV>
<DIV>However, here is what I know:</DIV>
<DIV>1. Running backs have been modified on some boats (placement of on dec=
k varies, mostly between tiller and wheel boats)</DIV>
<DIV>2. Keel has been slightly modified on some boats.&nbsp; Wolverine has =
a slightly shorter keel that's "thicker" (hence better downwind). Others, h=
ave the standard depth keel.&nbsp; Boats such as Impetuous, and Checkmate (=
which followed Impetuous' lead) faired the trailing edge and therefore exte=
nded it to a fine edge. So you'll see slight variations. But these are all =
allowed within class rules.</DIV>
<DIV>3. Never heard of anyone shortening the mast.&nbsp;I heard of a Frers =
41 owner LENGthening the boom (whichis a real pain in the butt in light air=
vis a vis the backstay)&nbsp;and another lengthening the mast and keeping =
the boom. But these were entirely different boats.</DIV>
<DIV>4. Mast Steps have been strengthened in nearly every boat, over time. =
Mine was done by prior owner at New England Boatworks.</DIV>
<DIV>5. Rudder bearings have been changed in nearly every boat.&nbsp; For m=
e, twice so far in 15 yrs.</DIV>
<DIV>6. Most rod rigging is replaced as it wears, but not reconfigured.&nbs=
p; In terms of other rigging, I've seen different mainsheet arrangements in=
terms of block purchase vs. fine tune, and most boats have installed the H=
arken traveller system.</DIV>
<DIV>7. Spinnaker poles are now carbon fiber, etc, but not changed otherwis=
e.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;I presume you bought the Frers because you actually liked the bo=
at?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Joyce (Checkmate owner)</DIV>
<DIV><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Courtney Thomas <BR>Date: Mo=
nday, August 15, 2011 4:15 pm<BR>Subject: [frers-list]complete refit soon u=
nderway, what changes would you make ?<BR>To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=frers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"><a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a><=
BR><BR>&gt; Ahoy !<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I am about to undertake a complete refi=
t of a Frers33 and would <BR>&gt; appreciate all input regarding<BR>&gt; ch=
anges you would make vis-a-vis the original assemblage, if you <BR>&gt; had=
the <BR>&gt; same opportunity.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Any suggestions regarding =
materials and technique regarding <BR>&gt; typical <BR>&gt; maintenance and=
restorative<BR>&gt; procedures are welcome as well, of course.<BR>&gt; <BR=
>&gt; In particular... keel reattachment, hull deck joint, deck <BR>&gt; re=
inforcement, <BR>&gt; mast support, mast reconfiguration,<BR>&gt; and riggi=
ng, both standing and running, and rudder <BR>&gt; reinstallation... are <B=
R>&gt; of particular concern,<BR>&gt; as I'd hate like hell to bear
this expense and later come to <BR>&gt; grief over <BR>&gt; a choice that =
could easily now be made<BR>&gt; that would have made a much more salutary =
difference in time to come.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; An additional note is that the=
standing rigging is what I assume <BR>&gt; was the <BR>&gt; original 'rod'=
rigging.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; My primary interest is not racing, rather cruisi=
ng.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Has anyone shortened or otherwise altered the original=
mast ?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Has anyone gone outboard with the chainplates ?<BR=
>&gt; <BR>&gt; Please include intended consequences of any suggested altera=
tions.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hoping to not cause a firestorm from Frers purists =
:-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In any case, no alterations have been yet made,...<BR>=
&gt; <BR>&gt; Appreciatively,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Courtney Thomas<BR>&gt; <BR>=
&gt; -- <BR>&gt; Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power,<=
BR>&gt; have the right to rise up, and shake off the
existing<BR>&gt; government, and form a new one that suits them better,<BR=
>&gt; This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right,<BR>&gt; whic=
h we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.<BR>&gt; Abraham Lincoln<BR=
>&gt; <BR>&gt; _______________________________________________<BR>&gt; frer=
s-list mailing list<BR>&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://us.mc811.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=frers-list@lists.frers33.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com"><a href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></a><BR>&gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lis=/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><a href="http://lis=">http://lis=</a></a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://ts.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><a href="http://ts.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list">ts.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list</a></a><BR>&gt; </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE=
></td></tr></table>
--0-38948252-1313707772=:55173--
--__--__--
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</tt></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</font></div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</blockquote>
</div></blockquote></body></html>
--Boundary_(ID_jTEnXRB9PfQYxo5ziry2zQ)--