[frers-list]stay with rod rigging or switch to wire ?
William Thompson
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Sun, 07 Oct 2012 13:24:20 -0400
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I took 7" offthe keel of d'Ad Lib this year & put on a torpedo to compensate. Mars keels
William Thompson
Sent from my iPad
On 2012-10-07, at 1:01 PM, ARTHUR KELLEY <akelley@optonline.net> wrote:
> Never seen any performance information regarding the wing keel. In fact there was much speculation as to whether such a thing existed until this boat showed up for sail. I would look to other similar Frers designs for that comparison.
>
> In Western LIS PHRF, Distance Racing:
> (fin/wing)
> Frers 38 78 / 84
> Frers 41 75 / 78
> Frers 45 39 / 48
>
> Also ask your local PHRF measurer, they may be able to give you a more educated guess. The 38 is probably the most comparable.
>
> Art
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Courtney Thomas wrote:
>
> Albert,
>
> Thanks again for one of your generous replies.
>
> I think maybe I'll just store the rod and replace it with wire for now. Do you know anyone who has replaced the
> rod with wire, that might be helpful with advice ? My boat is the only one, that I know, having the wing keel
> which I wanted, so, anyone wanting to race would possibly not be interested in my boat anyway, so resale is not
> a significant concern and if it were resold the purchaser could take the rod and reinstall it. By the way is there
> any data concerning the wing keel's performance vis-a-vis the standard fin ?
>
> Glad to hear the weld went fine.
>
> I'm scratching Kevlar.
>
> If you happen to later determine your mast paint used, please let me know.
>
> Cordially,
>
> Courtney
>
>
> On 10/6/2012 3:05 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT wrote:
>
> Courtney,
>
> If you're not going to race the boat then wire is less expensive. However, since the standard on a Frers 33 was and is rod then the boat would loose some resale value with wire. IF the Rod has been just sitting not on the boat for five years then that's five years of extra life. You could take the rod to a rigger and have him inspect it for elongation. If there is none you could replace the compressed end piece (that's where rod mostly fails just before that compression) and use that rod. They will cut off a few inches of rod and do a cold press at the end of end effectively giving you a new end piece.
>
> If the welder says he can fix it it's likely it will be fine. My first boat had a diagonal slice in the bottom of the mast about 5 inches long. Hit by a lawn mower blade while being stored on the ground at a house. The slightest pull on the mast would cause the slice to start to open. I had it welded and the weld was so good you couldn't even tell where it was. The boat sailed fine after that for two years, no problems.
>
> I would not go with Kevlar. It is way too much money. Even I don't have Kevlar standing rigging and I have just about the most expensive stuff you can put on the boat.
>
> Can't help you with the mast paint. I painted my mast about 5 years ago with an interlux one part polyurethane but to be honest I can't recall. I wish I could remember as it has held up like steel. Just go on line and look at the interlux paints you should be able to find one that will meet your needs.
>
> Good luck
> Frank Albert
> Relentless 41621
>
> --- On Sat, 10/6/12, Courtney Thomas <courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net>wrote:
>
> From: Courtney Thomas <courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: [ frers -list]stay with rod rigging or switch to wire ?
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Date: Saturday, October 6, 2012, 2:04 PM
>
> Do group members recommend any particular service to 'check out' their rod rigging ? I presently have
> rod but am unaware of it's history, though I'm told very little use but now over 5 years old. The mast's
> existence basically has been in storage on saw horses.
>
> The starboard upper spreader tip has been damaged but I'm told by a local welder that he can 'fix it'.
> Thoughts ?
>
> What's the consensus regarding wire, rod or kevlar ?
>
> I should add that racing is not my objective but rather extensive coastal cruising.
>
> What mast paint has been durable and cost competitive ?
>
> Any other suggestions and recommendations for a refurb would be appreciated,
>
> C.Thomas
> ccthomas01@yahoo.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> frers-list mailing list
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>I took 7" offthe keel of d'Ad Lib this=
year & put on a torpedo to compensate. Mars keels<br><br>William Thomps=
on<div>Sent from my iPad</div></div><div><br>On 2012-10-07, at 1:01 PM, ARTH=
UR KELLEY <<a href=3D"mailto:akelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net=
</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div align=3D"LE=
FT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" k=
erning=3D"0">Never seen any performance information regarding the wing keel.=
In fact there was much speculation as to whether such a thing existed=
until this boat showed up for sail. I would look to other similar Fre=
rs designs for that comparison.</font></div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2=
" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></font><div align=3D=
"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"=
0" kerning=3D"0">In Western LIS PHRF, Distance Racing:</font></div><div alig=
n=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=
=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"> &=
nbsp; (fin/wing)</font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"V=
erdana" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">Frers=
38 78 / 84</font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" siz=
e=3D"2" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">Frers 41 7=
5 / 78</font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2" col=
or=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">Frers 45 39 / 48</fon=
t></div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D=
"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></font><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=
=3D"2" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">Also ask your loc=
al PHRF measurer, they may be able to give you a more educated guess. T=
he 38 is probably the most comparable.</font></div><font face=3D"Verdana" si=
ze=3D"2" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></font><div=
align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000" lettersp=
acing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">Art</font></div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2" c=
olor=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></font><font face=3D"=
Verdana" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br>=
</font><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"=
0" kerning=3D"0"><br></font><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D=
"2" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 a=
t 9:59 AM, Courtney Thomas wrote:</font></div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D=
"2" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></font><div alig=
n=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=
=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"> <font size=3D"3">Albert, </font></font></div><fon=
t face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D=
"0"><br></font><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D=
"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">Thanks again for one of your gen=
erous replies. </font></div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#0000=
00" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></font><div align=3D"LEFT"><font f=
ace=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"=
0">I think maybe I'll just store the rod and replace it with wire for &=
nbsp; now. Do you know anyone who has replaced the </font></div>=
<div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" lett=
erspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">rod with wire, that might be helpful with advi=
ce ? My boat is the only one, that I know, having th=
e wing keel </font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"=
3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">which I wanted, so, a=
nyone wanting to race would possibly not be interest=
ed in my boat anyway, so resale is not </font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><fon=
t face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D=
"0">a significant concern and if it were resold the purchaser could take&nbs=
p; the rod and reinstall it. By the way is there </font></=
div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" l=
etterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">any data concerning the wing keel's perform=
ance vis-a-vis the standard fin ? </font></div><font=
face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D=
"0"><br></font><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D=
"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">Glad to hear the weld went fine.=
</font></div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspac=
ing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></font><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana=
" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">I'm scratch=
ing Kevlar. </font></div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000"=
letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></font><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=
=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">=
If you happen to later determine your mast paint used, please let me &n=
bsp; know. </font></div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D=
"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></font><div align=3D"LEFT"><=
font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerni=
ng=3D"0">Cordially, </font></div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"=
#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></font><div align=3D"LEFT"><f=
ont face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kernin=
g=3D"0">Courtney </font></div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#00=
0000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></font><div align=3D"LEFT"><font=
face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D=
"0"> </font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3=
" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">On 10/6/2012 3:05 PM, =
FRANCIS ALBERT wrote: </font></div><font=
face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D=
"0"><br></font><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D=
"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">Courtney, <font size=3D"2"></fon=
t></font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D=
"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"> <font size=3D"2"></font><=
/font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#=
000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">If you're not going to race the bo=
at then wire is &=
nbsp; less expensive. However, since the=
standard on a Frers &n=
bsp; 33 was and is rod then the boat wou=
ld loose some resale &n=
bsp; value with wire. IF the=
Rod has been just sitting not &nbs=
p; on the boat for five year=
s then that's five years of &=
nbsp; extra life. You could t=
ake the rod to a rigger and have &n=
bsp; him inspect it for elon=
gation. If there is none &nbs=
p; you could replace the com=
pressed end piece (that's where &nb=
sp; rod mostly fails just be=
fore that compression) and use &nbs=
p; that rod. They will=
cut off a few inches of rod and do  =
; a cold press at the e=
nd of end effectively giving you a =
new end piece. <font s=
ize=3D"2"></font></font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" siz=
e=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"> <font siz=
e=3D"2"></font></font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D=
"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">If the welder says h=
e can fix it it's likely it will &n=
bsp; be fine. My first=
boat had a diagonal slice in the &=
nbsp; bottom of the mast abo=
ut 5 inches long. Hit by a lawn &nb=
sp; mower blade while b=
eing stored on the ground at a &nbs=
p; house. The slightes=
t pull on the mast would cause the =
slice to start to ope=
n. I had it welded and the &n=
bsp; weld was so good you co=
uldn't even tell where it was. &nbs=
p; The boat sailed fin=
e after that for two years, no &nbs=
p; problems. <font siz=
e=3D"2"></font></font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D=
"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"> <font size=3D=
"2"></font></font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3=
" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">I would not go with Ke=
vlar. It is way too much &nbs=
p; money. Even I don't=
have Kevlar standing rigging and I  =
; have just about the m=
ost expensive stuff you can put on =
the boat. <font size=3D=
"2"></font></font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3=
" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"> <font size=3D"2=
"></font></font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" c=
olor=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">Can't help you with the m=
ast paint. I painted my  =
; mast about 5 years ago wit=
h an interlux one part =
polyurethane but to be honest I c=
an't recall. I wish I &=
nbsp; could remember as it has hel=
d up like steel. Just go on &=
nbsp; line and look at the i=
nterlux paints you should be able &=
nbsp; to find one that will m=
eet your needs. <font size=3D"2"></font></font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><fo=
nt face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=
=3D"0"> <font size=3D"2"></font></font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font=
face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D=
"0">Good luck <font size=3D"2"></font></font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font=
face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D=
"0">Frank Albert <font size=3D"2"></font></font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><f=
ont face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kernin=
g=3D"0">Relentless 41621 </font></div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" colo=
r=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></font><div align=3D"LEFT=
"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" ke=
rning=3D"0">--- On <b>Sat, 10/6/12, Courtney Thomas </b><font color=3D"#3333=
FF"><a href=3D"javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('courtneycthomas@b=
ellsouth.net')" target=3D""><b><i><u><courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net></=
u></i></b></a></font>wrote: </font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"V=
erdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#3333FF" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><a hr=
ef=3D"javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('courtneycthomas@bellsouth.=
net')" target=3D""><b><i></i></b></a></font></div><font face=3D"Verdana" siz=
e=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></font><div a=
lign=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspac=
ing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">From: Courtney Thomas <font color=3D"#3333FF"><a hre=
f=3D"javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('courtneycthomas@bellsouth.n=
et')" target=3D""><u><courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net></u></a></font></f=
ont></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#00=
0000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">Subject: [ frers -list]stay &nb=
sp; &=
nbsp; with rod rigging or switch to wire ? </font></div><div align=3D"=
LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0=
" kerning=3D"0">To: <font color=3D"#3333FF"><a href=3D"javascript:parent.wgM=
ail.openComposeWindow('frers-list@lists.frers33.com')" target=3D""><u>frers-=
list@lists.frers33.com</u></a></font></font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font f=
ace=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"=
0">Date: Saturday, October 6, 2012, 2:04 PM </font></div><font face=3D"Verda=
na" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></fon=
t><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" le=
tterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">Do group members recommend any &n=
bsp; =
particular service to 'check out' their rod rigging ?&nbs=
p; &n=
bsp; I presently have </font></div><div align=3D"LEFT=
"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" ke=
rning=3D"0">rod but am unaware of it's history, though I'm told &=
nbsp;  =
; very little use but now over 5 years old. The mast's </f=
ont></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#00=
0000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">existence basically has been in stor=
age on saw horses. </font></div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#=
000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></font><div align=3D"LEFT"><fo=
nt face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=
=3D"0">The starboard upper spreader tip has been damaged but &nbs=
p; &n=
bsp; I'm told by a local welder that he can 'fix it'. </font></d=
iv><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" l=
etterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">Thoughts ? </font></div><font face=3D"Verda=
na" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></fon=
t><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" le=
tterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">What's the consensus regarding wire, rod or k=
evlar ? </font></div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" let=
terspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></font><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"=
Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">I sh=
ould add that racing is not my objective but &n=
bsp; =
rather extensive coastal cruising. </font></div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=
=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></font><div a=
lign=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspac=
ing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">What mast paint has been durable and cost competitiv=
e &nb=
sp; ? </font></div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=
=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></font><div a=
lign=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspac=
ing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">Any other suggestions and recommendations for a refu=
rb &n=
bsp; would be appreciated, </font></div><font f=
ace=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"=
0"><br></font><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D=
"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">C.Thomas </font></div><div align=
=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#3333FF" letterspacing=3D=
"0" kerning=3D"0"><a href=3D"http://us.mc829.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=3D=
ccthomas01@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank"><u>ccthomas01@yahoo.com</u></a><font=
color=3D"#000000"></font></font></div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" col=
or=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></font><font face=3D"Ve=
rdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0"><br></=
font><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0"=
kerning=3D"0"><br></font><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D=
"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">____________________=
___________________________ </font></div><div align=3D"LEFT"><font face=3D"V=
erdana" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" letterspacing=3D"0" kerning=3D"0">frers=
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