[frers-list]stay with rod rigging or switch to wire ?
Courtney Thomas
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Mon, 08 Oct 2012 09:43:36 -0400
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William,
Thanks for the reply. What brought on the changeover ?
I just hauled my winged keel Frers 33 from St.Augustine, Fl. to Atlanta
last week and I don't see how you owners of the standard
fin keel haul 'em, as I was only a couple of inches below the legal
height limit, not to mention weaving my way out of St.Augustine's
narrow winding streets out of the old town environs :-)
Courtney
On 10/7/2012 1:24 PM, William Thompson wrote:
> I took 7" offthe keel of d'Ad Lib this year & put on a torpedo to
> compensate. Mars keels
>
> William Thompson
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 2012-10-07, at 1:01 PM, ARTHUR KELLEY <akelley@optonline.net
> <mailto:akelley@optonline.net>> wrote:
>
>> Never seen any performance information regarding the wing keel. In
>> fact there was much speculation as to whether such a thing existed
>> until this boat showed up for sail. I would look to other similar
>> Frers designs for that comparison.
>>
>> In Western LIS PHRF, Distance Racing:
>> (fin/wing)
>> Frers 38 78 / 84
>> Frers 41 75 / 78
>> Frers 45 39 / 48
>>
>> Also ask your local PHRF measurer, they may be able to give you a
>> more educated guess. The 38 is probably the most comparable.
>>
>> Art
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Courtney Thomas wrote:
>>
>> Albert,
>>
>> Thanks again for one of your generous replies.
>>
>> I think maybe I'll just store the rod and replace it with wire
>> for now. Do you know anyone who has replaced the
>> rod with wire, that might be helpful with advice ? My boat is the
>> only one, that I know, having the wing keel
>> which I wanted, so, anyone wanting to race would possibly not be
>> interested in my boat anyway, so resale is not
>> a significant concern and if it were resold the purchaser could take
>> the rod and reinstall it. By the way is there
>> any data concerning the wing keel's performance vis-a-vis the
>> standard fin ?
>>
>> Glad to hear the weld went fine.
>>
>> I'm scratching Kevlar.
>>
>> If you happen to later determine your mast paint used, please let me
>> know.
>>
>> Cordially,
>>
>> Courtney
>>
>> On 10/6/2012 3:05 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT wrote:
>>
>> Courtney,
>> If you're not going to race the boat then wire is
>> less expensive. However, since the standard on a
>> Frers 33 was and is rod then the boat would loose
>> some resale value with wire. IF the Rod has been just
>> sitting not on the boat for five years then that's
>> five years of extra life. You could take the rod to
>> a rigger and have him inspect it for elongation. If
>> there is none you could replace the compressed end
>> piece (that's where rod mostly fails just before that
>> compression) and use that rod. They will cut off a
>> few inches of rod and do a cold press at the end of
>> end effectively giving you a new end piece.
>> If the welder says he can fix it it's likely it will
>> be fine. My first boat had a diagonal slice in the
>> bottom of the mast about 5 inches long. Hit by a
>> lawn mower blade while being stored on the ground at
>> a house. The slightest pull on the mast would cause
>> the slice to start to open. I had it welded and
>> the weld was so good you couldn't even tell where it
>> was. The boat sailed fine after that for two years,
>> no problems.
>> I would not go with Kevlar. It is way too much
>> money. Even I don't have Kevlar standing rigging and
>> I have just about the most expensive stuff you can
>> put on the boat.
>> Can't help you with the mast paint. I painted my
>> mast about 5 years ago with an interlux one part
>> polyurethane but to be honest I can't recall. I wish
>> I could remember as it has held up like steel. Just
>> go on line and look at the interlux paints you should
>> be able to find one that will meet your needs.
>> Good luck
>> Frank Albert
>> Relentless 41621
>>
>> --- On *Sat, 10/6/12, Courtney Thomas
>> **/_<courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net>_/*
>> <javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net')>wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Courtney Thomas _<courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net>_
>> <javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net')>
>> Subject: [ frers -list]stay with rod rigging or
>> switch to wire ?
>> To: _frers-list@lists.frers33.com_
>> <javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('frers-list@lists.frers33.com')>
>> Date: Saturday, October 6, 2012, 2:04 PM
>>
>> Do group members recommend any particular service
>> to 'check out' their rod rigging ? I presently have
>> rod but am unaware of it's history, though I'm told
>> very little use but now over 5 years old. The mast's
>> existence basically has been in storage on saw horses.
>>
>> The starboard upper spreader tip has been damaged but I'm told by a
>> local welder that he can 'fix it'.
>> Thoughts ?
>>
>> What's the consensus regarding wire, rod or kevlar ?
>>
>> I should add that racing is not my objective but
>> rather extensive coastal cruising.
>>
>> What mast paint has been durable and cost
>> competitive ?
>>
>> Any other suggestions and recommendations for a
>> refurb would be appreciated,
>>
>> C.Thomas
>> _ccthomas01@yahoo.com_
>> <http://us.mc829.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ccthomas01@yahoo.com>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> frers-list mailing list
>> _frers-list@lists.frers33.com_
>> <http://us.mc829.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
>> _http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list_
>>
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William,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the reply. What brought on the changeover ?<br>
<br>
I just hauled my winged keel Frers 33 from St.Augustine, Fl. to
Atlanta last week and I don't see how you owners of the standard<br>
fin keel haul 'em, as I was only a couple of inches below the legal
height limit, not to mention weaving my way out of St.Augustine's<br>
narrow winding streets out of the old town environs :-)<br>
<br>
Courtney<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/7/2012 1:24 PM, William Thompson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CCED1E88-65F6-4C26-96F8-21ABF2CBC150@videotron.ca"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<div>I took 7" offthe keel of d'Ad Lib this year & put on a
torpedo to compensate. Mars keels<br>
<br>
William Thompson
<div>Sent from my iPad</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On 2012-10-07, at 1:01 PM, ARTHUR KELLEY <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:akelley@optonline.net">akelley@optonline.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="2">Never seen any
performance information regarding the wing keel. In fact
there was much speculation as to whether such a thing
existed until this boat showed up for sail. I would look
to other similar Frers designs for that comparison.</font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="2"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="2">In Western LIS
PHRF, Distance Racing:</font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="2">
(fin/wing)</font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="2">Frers 38 78 / 84</font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="2">Frers 41 75 / 78</font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="2">Frers 45 39 / 48</font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="2"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="2">Also ask your
local PHRF measurer, they may be able to give you a more
educated guess. The 38 is probably the most comparable.</font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="2"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="2">Art</font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="2"><br>
</font><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="2"><br>
</font><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="2"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="2">On Sun, Oct 7,
2012 at 9:59 AM, Courtney Thomas wrote:</font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="2"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="2"> <font size="3">Albert,
</font></font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">Thanks again for
one of your generous replies. </font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">I think maybe I'll
just store the rod and replace it with wire for now.
Do you know anyone who has replaced the </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">rod with wire,
that might be helpful with advice ? My boat is the
only one, that I know, having the wing keel </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">which I wanted,
so, anyone wanting to race would possibly not be
interested in my boat anyway, so resale is not </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">a significant
concern and if it were resold the purchaser could take
the rod and reinstall it. By the way is there </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">any data
concerning the wing keel's performance vis-a-vis the
standard fin ? </font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">Glad to hear the
weld went fine. </font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">I'm scratching
Kevlar. </font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">If you happen to
later determine your mast paint used, please let me
know. </font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">Cordially, </font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">Courtney </font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3"> </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">On 10/6/2012 3:05
PM, FRANCIS ALBERT wrote: </font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="2"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">Courtney, </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3"> </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">If you're not
going to race the boat then wire is less
expensive. However, since the standard on a
Frers 33 was and is rod then the boat
would loose some resale value with wire.
IF the Rod has been just sitting not on
the boat for five years then that's five years
of extra life. You could take the rod to
a rigger and have him inspect it for
elongation. If there is none you could
replace the compressed end piece (that's
where rod mostly fails just before that
compression) and use that rod. They will
cut off a few inches of rod and do a cold
press at the end of end effectively giving you
a new end piece. </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3"> </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">If the welder says
he can fix it it's likely it will be
fine. My first boat had a diagonal slice in
the bottom of the mast about 5 inches
long. Hit by a lawn mower blade while
being stored on the ground at a house.
The slightest pull on the mast would cause
the slice to start to open. I had it
welded and the weld was so good you
couldn't even tell where it was. The boat
sailed fine after that for two years, no
problems. </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3"> </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">I would not go
with Kevlar. It is way too much money.
Even I don't have Kevlar standing rigging and
I have just about the most expensive stuff
you can put on the boat. </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3"> </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">Can't help you
with the mast paint. I painted my mast
about 5 years ago with an interlux one
part polyurethane but to be honest I can't
recall. I wish I could remember as it has
held up like steel. Just go on line and
look at the interlux paints you should be
able to find one that will meet your
needs. </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3"> </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">Good luck </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">Frank Albert </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">Relentless 41621 </font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">--- On <b>Sat,
10/6/12, Courtney Thomas </b><font color="#3333FF"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net')"
target=""><b><i><u><courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net></u></i></b></a></font>wrote:
</font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">From: Courtney
Thomas <font color="#3333FF"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net')"
target=""><u><courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net></u></a></font></font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">Subject: [ frers
-list]stay with rod rigging or switch to
wire ? </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">To: <font
color="#3333FF"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="javascript:parent.wgMail.openComposeWindow('frers-list@lists.frers33.com')"
target=""><u>frers-list@lists.frers33.com</u></a></font></font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">Date: Saturday,
October 6, 2012, 2:04 PM </font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">Do group members
recommend any particular service to
'check out' their rod rigging ? I
presently have </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">rod but am unaware
of it's history, though I'm told very
little use but now over 5 years old. The mast's </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">existence
basically has been in storage on saw horses. </font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">The starboard
upper spreader tip has been damaged but
I'm told by a local welder that he can 'fix it'. </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">Thoughts ? </font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">What's the
consensus regarding wire, rod or kevlar ? </font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">I should add that
racing is not my objective but rather
extensive coastal cruising. </font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">What mast paint
has been durable and cost competitive ?
</font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">Any other
suggestions and recommendations for a
refurb would be appreciated, </font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">C.Thomas </font></div>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#3333FF" face="Verdana" size="3"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://us.mc829.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ccthomas01@yahoo.com"
target="_blank"><u>ccthomas01@yahoo.com</u></a></font></div>
<font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0" color="#000000"
face="Verdana" size="3"><br>
</font>
<div align="LEFT"><font letterspacing="0" kerning="0"
color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">_______________________________________________
</font></div>
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color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="3">frers-list mailing
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