[frers-list]Fairing keel and rudder

Sat, 07 Dec 2013 16:51:57 -0500 (EST)

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I made an unplanned stop at the=C2=A0boatyard today to check my cover and=
=20
remembered this thread.=C2=A0 Since we have two boats in the same yard, I=
=20
figured I'd check.=C2=A0 Again,=C2=A0this=C2=A0was unplanned,=C2=A0so I was=
 alone and did=20
not have a ruler or tape measure but used a sail tie to compare the=20
foils, and came back and measured the sail tie.=C2=A0 Trends good, accuracy=
,=20
not so much.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
The keels seem pretty similar, both faired to about 1/8" (Boat A)=C2=A0or a=
=20
bit less on Boat B and both keels approximately the same length=20
(depth)=C2=A0below the bottom.
=C2=A0
The rudders were a completely different story.=C2=A0 Boat B appears "stock"=
=20
with a fairly thick, rounded trailing edge.=C2=A0 There is a school of=20
thought that suggests that the rounder edge reduces turbulence when=20
turning or when the rudder is offset from centerline like when going=20
upwind with some weather helm.=C2=A0 Then again the thicker edge does creat=
e=20
more turbulence when running straight with the rudder on centerline.
=C2=A0
The rudder on the Boat A had been faired to about=C2=A01/8", the same as th=
e=20
keel, but to achieve this the trailing edge had been extended by about 2=20
1/4" to 2 1/2".=C2=A0 This also affected the roundness of the bottom of the=
=20
rudder.=C2=A0 Both rudders seem to be the same length.=C2=A0 Measuring from=
 the=20
leading edge of the rudder just below where the notch for the skeg ends,=20
and running parallel to the top edge of the rudder (see attachment),=20
Boat A's rudder measured approximately 28 1/2" and Boat B approximately=20
26 1/4".=C2=A0 Remember I am measuring to knots in a sail tie here!=C2=A0 B=
oth=20
were about 60"=C2=A0long, top to bottom.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
I photographed both rudders, traced them in the computer, then overlaid=20
the profiles.=C2=A0 The diagram (attached)=C2=A0is perhaps not as smooth an=
d clean=20
as they could be but this should be sufficient to get the general=20
concept - and generate discussion.=C2=A0 I would need to re-photograph the=
=20
keels, the perspective was different and the overlay just did not work.
=C2=A0
I have not spoken to the other owner yet about what he knows about any=20
modifications to his foil(s), so am keeping the identities of the boat=20
anonymous for now.=C2=A0 He frequently beats me, but I don't think that's r=
aw=20
boat speed as much as=C2=A0he and his crew just being a bit better than we=
=20
are.
=C2=A0
Joyce, if you come up with your diagrams I'd be happy to post them on=20
the class site, perhaps in the FAQ section.
=C2=A0
If anyone else wants to photograph their rudder or keel I can try to add=20
those to the comparison.=C2=A0 The photo would have to be taken=C2=A0with t=
he=20
camera aligned=C2=A0approximately mid-point on the foil and perpendicular t=
o=20
it.
=C2=A0
These specifications probably should have been more closely regulated in=20
the early days of the class, but for now perhaps we should understand=20
what the fleet looks like and try to avoid too much further deviation.=C2=
=A0=20
In my mind changing the location of lead would be against the one-design=20
rules so Bill, I applaud you for planning ahead for the event that=20
someone wants to bring the boat back into class specs.
=C2=A0
Regards,
Art

=C2=A0On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 09:25 AM, Scott Marino wrote:
=C2=A0
=C2=A0> Joyce,
> Sounds like those pics might be a nice additions to the Frers website=20
> for all to see.
> Scott
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 11/27/13, Joyce Oberdorf  wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [frers-list]Fairing keel and rudder
>  To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>  Date: Wednesday, November 27, 2013, 12:48 PM
>   Bill--
>  Here is what I=C2=A0 know.=C2=A0 When I bought Checkmate,
>  eons ago, we looked at 4
>  Frers 33s Each one had a slightly different keel and rudder.
>  Wolverine had a
>  less deep keel-- but NOT the "shallow keel" version.=C2=A0
>  Impetuous had a deeper
>  keel, faired to a fine blade, as was the rudder.
>  We measured with calipers the thickness of the trailing
>  edges. ALL
>  DIFFERENT>
>  This is apparently not covered by class rules.=C2=A0 At that
>  time (way back in
>  the 90s), Impetuous was one of the leading boats, and the
>  owner, Paul
>  Zabetakis, was class president at the time. And close by. So
>  we decided to
>  go with that.=C2=A0 We extended the rudder about 3 includes
>  to fair it from about
>  3/4 inch to a fine edge. Did the same to keel. We didn't
>  have templates.=C2=A0 If
>  I can find the diagram of the two boats we measured (I
>  plotted the shapes on
>  graph paper, I'll copy scan and email.
>   Joyce
>    On 11/18/13 1:44 PM, "Bill Thompson"  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Have sanded d'Ad lib's hull - waterline and below -
>  back to the vinyl ester.
>> Brutal work. The good news is, after 27 years, not a
>  single blister, soft spot
>> or other imperfection. Washed and wetted down there is
>  no ripple of
>> imperfection to be found in the reflection. Come
>  spring, sealant and 6 coats
>> of inter protect before bottom paint should keep her
>  dry and healthy for a
>> good long time. Pics avail. if anyone would like to
>  see.
>>
>> However, keel and rudder (which is still dry) are not
>  as fair, so I'm
>> wondering if anyone has templates and/or methodology to
>  suggest, so I can
>> bring them fair, prior to coating and finishing. All
>  help appreciated.
>>
>> Bill Thompson
>> Montreal
>> _______________________________________________
>> frers-list mailing list
>> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
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>
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