[frers-list]Fairing keel and rudder

Rod Stright frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Sat, 07 Dec 2013 18:35:30 -0400


Thanks Art, I'll try and get some shots tomorrow. =20

Rod

-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of ARTHUR KELLEY
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 5:52 PM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: Re: [frers-list]Fairing keel and rudder

I made an unplanned stop at the boatyard today to check my cover and =
remembered this thread.  Since we have two boats in the same yard, I =
figured I'd check.  Again, this was unplanned, so I was alone and did =
not have a ruler or tape measure but used a sail tie to compare the =
foils, and came back and measured the sail tie.  Trends good, accuracy, =
not so much.=20
=20
The keels seem pretty similar, both faired to about 1/8" (Boat A) or a =
bit less on Boat B and both keels approximately the same length
(depth) below the bottom.
=20
The rudders were a completely different story.  Boat B appears "stock"=20
with a fairly thick, rounded trailing edge.  There is a school of =
thought that suggests that the rounder edge reduces turbulence when =
turning or when the rudder is offset from centerline like when going =
upwind with some weather helm.  Then again the thicker edge does create =
more turbulence when running straight with the rudder on centerline.
=20
The rudder on the Boat A had been faired to about 1/8", the same as the =
keel, but to achieve this the trailing edge had been extended by about 2 =
1/4" to 2 1/2".  This also affected the roundness of the bottom of the =
rudder.  Both rudders seem to be the same length.  Measuring from the =
leading edge of the rudder just below where the notch for the skeg ends, =
and running parallel to the top edge of the rudder (see attachment), =
Boat A's rudder measured approximately 28 1/2" and Boat B approximately
26 1/4".  Remember I am measuring to knots in a sail tie here!  Both =
were about 60" long, top to bottom.=20
=20
I photographed both rudders, traced them in the computer, then overlaid =
the profiles.  The diagram (attached) is perhaps not as smooth and clean =
as they could be but this should be sufficient to get the general =
concept - and generate discussion.  I would need to re-photograph the =
keels, the perspective was different and the overlay just did not work.
=20
I have not spoken to the other owner yet about what he knows about any =
modifications to his foil(s), so am keeping the identities of the boat =
anonymous for now.  He frequently beats me, but I don't think that's raw =
boat speed as much as he and his crew just being a bit better than we =
are.
=20
Joyce, if you come up with your diagrams I'd be happy to post them on =
the class site, perhaps in the FAQ section.
=20
If anyone else wants to photograph their rudder or keel I can try to add =
those to the comparison.  The photo would have to be taken with the =
camera aligned approximately mid-point on the foil and perpendicular to =
it.
=20
These specifications probably should have been more closely regulated in =
the early days of the class, but for now perhaps we should understand =
what the fleet looks like and try to avoid too much further deviation. =
In my mind changing the location of lead would be against the one-design =
rules so Bill, I applaud you for planning ahead for the event that =
someone wants to bring the boat back into class specs.
=20
Regards,
Art

 On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 09:25 AM, Scott Marino wrote:
=20
 > Joyce,
> Sounds like those pics might be a nice additions to the Frers website=20
> for all to see.
> Scott
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 11/27/13, Joyce Oberdorf  wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [frers-list]Fairing keel and rudder
>  To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>  Date: Wednesday, November 27, 2013, 12:48 PM
>   Bill--
>  Here is what I  know.  When I bought Checkmate,  eons ago, we looked=20
> at 4  Frers 33s Each one had a slightly different keel and rudder.
>  Wolverine had a
>  less deep keel-- but NOT the "shallow keel" version.  Impetuous had a =

> deeper  keel, faired to a fine blade, as was the rudder.
>  We measured with calipers the thickness of the trailing  edges. ALL =20
> DIFFERENT>  This is apparently not covered by class rules.  At that =20
> time (way back in  the 90s), Impetuous was one of the leading boats,=20
> and the  owner, Paul  Zabetakis, was class president at the time. And=20
> close by. So  we decided to  go with that.  We extended the rudder=20
> about 3 includes  to fair it from about
>  3/4 inch to a fine edge. Did the same to keel. We didn't  have=20
> templates.  If  I can find the diagram of the two boats we measured (I =
=20
> plotted the shapes on  graph paper, I'll copy scan and email.
>   Joyce
>    On 11/18/13 1:44 PM, "Bill Thompson"  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Have sanded d'Ad lib's hull - waterline and below -
>  back to the vinyl ester.
>> Brutal work. The good news is, after 27 years, not a
>  single blister, soft spot
>> or other imperfection. Washed and wetted down there is
>  no ripple of
>> imperfection to be found in the reflection. Come
>  spring, sealant and 6 coats
>> of inter protect before bottom paint should keep her
>  dry and healthy for a
>> good long time. Pics avail. if anyone would like to
>  see.
>>
>> However, keel and rudder (which is still dry) are not
>  as fair, so I'm
>> wondering if anyone has templates and/or methodology to
>  suggest, so I can
>> bring them fair, prior to coating and finishing. All
>  help appreciated.
>>
>> Bill Thompson
>> Montreal
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