[frers-list]RE: Racing Headsail Choices
Rod Stright
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Tue, 08 Sep 2015 05:47:34 -0300
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Thanks Edgar, very helpful. I've been very happy with my Doyle Stratis
mainsail and #1. Both are Technora which IMHO wears very well compared to
other high tech fabrics. North does not use technora. The two that need to
be replaced (Blade and #2) are DPs D4 which had a lot of carbon and they
quickly broke down. Stratis is now very expensive because of our dollar
situation and the Stratis sails are built in New Zeeland. I have a friend
who bought an Olson 30 from the Annapolis area and it had Evolution sails
which look and perform great. I'll be interested in how the new sail works
out. It is likely a cross cut panel design using hi tech material. I had
Flex sails on my Peterson 37 and they seemed very good but I sold the boat
shortly after I got the sails but I assume they wore well. A lot cheaper
to build.
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Edgar Smith
Sent: September-08-15 12:55 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]RE: Racing Headsail Choices
I've been pretty disgusted with the life of the we get from North 3DL sails
and recently we've tried a few alternitives. In your list of choices you
mention molded sails like Doyle Stratus and North 3DI. You may already know
this, but North actually offers two different molded sails, the 3DL and 3DI.
The 3DI is a newer technology than the 3DL. It is made of molded fibers
only, and there is no mylar layer. The first generation 3DIs were gray, and
the new ones are black. They are about 25% more expensive than 3DLs. The
Paneled mylar sails are usually slightly less than the 3DLs but in some
cases even slightly more expensive. People seem happy with the 3DIs, but I
have not tried them. Art Kelly's is fast.
Saying which sail lasts the longest depends somewhat on your definition of
when the sail is no longer good enough. In my experience, a paneled mylar
sail will hold together a long time but it's shape will move more making it
a slower sail, while the 3DL holds it's shape petty well until the mylar
gets brittle and then the sail begins to come apart pretty quickly. On the
Frers, we have been able to race our 3DLs for a maximum of 4 years. Neither
of our last two mains were very good after 3 years. Late this summer we
bought a new main by a successful sail designer in our area; Fries Sail
Design. Some very good boats use his sails, and I got good feedback from the
owners about how well they've held up. The main cost a few dollars more than
the quote we had for a North 3DL. John Fries says we should expect better
longevity from it than we saw with the 3DLs because he uses a superior mylar
and a higher thread count. I'll know in about 3 years if that is true. We'll
race Wolverine in two weeks, and should get a good speed comparison with
Dave's new 3DL North main. So far we think it looks really good.
The Fries sail is made a a facility in Capetown. I assume it is made by the
Ulman loft located there, but don't know for sure. One difference I noticed
was that the sail has a similar load path thread layout as the 3DL but it is
made with seams, so the treads are not actually continious the entire lenght
of the sail. The seams look solid, but this could become a potential point
of failure as the sail gets older.
One thing we've tried to do to get longer sail life is carry both a North
light/medium #1 jib as well as a medium heavy #1. My thought is that the
light jib will last longer if we don't carry it up to the top of it's range
and the medium heavy #1 will hold it's shape better in the teens. But as
Dave pointed out, it gives us one more sail choice decision to sweat over.
And unfortunately, we have not really seen a speed advantage against
Wolverine when we've had the medium heavy #1 up against their Light medium
#1.
We also bought a paneled North kevlar/mylar 145% #2. We don't use it much
and I thought it would last longer than our previous 3DL #2. We'll see.
I should also caution you that the last two sails we bought from North - the
heavy #1 and the paneled #2 were both cut with the clews so low that they
to-blocked before we could trim them in all the way. Both sails had to go
back to North to have the clews re-done. They are now O.K., but no longer
perfect. The North sailmaker said this is not the case, but I think the loft
must have an incorrect measurement on file for the Frers 33 track height and
have not updated it. I am not the only boat that has had this problem with
low clews on North jibs and it seems to go back many years. If you order a
North jib I would ask them to measure and make it clear that you will not
accept the recut sail if you have this problem.
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class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Thanks Edgar, very helpful. I’ve =
been very happy with my Doyle Stratis mainsail and #1. Both are =
Technora which IMHO wears very well compared to other high tech =
fabrics. North does not use technora. The two that need to =
be replaced (Blade and #2) are DPs D4 which had a lot of carbon and they =
quickly broke down. Stratis is now very expensive because of our =
dollar situation and the Stratis sails are built in New Zeeland. I =
have a friend who bought an Olson 30 from the Annapolis area and it had =
Evolution sails which look and perform great. I’ll be =
interested in how the new sail works out. It is likely a cross cut =
panel design using hi tech material. I had Flex sails on my =
Peterson 37 and they seemed very good but I sold the boat shortly after =
I got the sails but I assume they wore well. A lot cheaper =
to build.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;=
mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> =
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Edgar =
Smith<br><b>Sent:</b> September-08-15 12:55 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com<br><b>Subject:</b> [frers-list]RE: Racing =
Headsail Choices<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>I'=
ve been pretty disgusted with the life of the we get from North 3DL =
sails and recently we've tried a few alternitives. In your list of =
choices you mention molded sails like Doyle Stratus and North 3DI. You =
may already know this, but North actually offers two different molded =
sails, the 3DL and 3DI. The 3DI is a newer technology than the 3DL. It =
is made of molded fibers only, and there is no mylar layer. The first =
generation 3DIs were gray, and the new ones are black. They are about =
25% more expensive than 3DLs. The Paneled mylar sails are usually =
slightly less than the 3DLs but in some cases even slightly more =
expensive. People seem happy with the 3DIs, but I have not tried them. =
Art Kelly's is fast.<br><br>Saying which sail lasts the longest depends =
somewhat on your definition of when the sail is no longer good =
enough. In my experience, a paneled mylar sail will hold together =
a long time but it's shape will move more making it a slower sail, while =
the 3DL holds it's shape petty well until the mylar gets brittle and =
then the sail begins to come apart pretty quickly. On the Frers, we have =
been able to race our 3DLs for a maximum of 4 years. Neither of our last =
two mains were very good after 3 years. Late this summer we bought a new =
main by a successful sail designer in our area; Fries Sail Design. Some =
very good boats use his sails, and I got good feedback from the owners =
about how well they've held up. The main cost a few dollars more than =
the quote we had for a North 3DL. John Fries says we should expect =
better longevity from it than we saw with the 3DLs because he uses a =
superior mylar and a higher thread count. I'll know in about 3 years if =
that is true. We'll race Wolverine in two weeks, and should get a =
good speed comparison with Dave's new 3DL North main. So far we =
think it looks really good.<br><br>The Fries sail is made a a facility =
in Capetown. I assume it is made by the Ulman loft located there, but =
don't know for sure. One difference I noticed was that the sail has a =
similar load path thread layout as the 3DL but it is made with seams, so =
the treads are not actually continious the entire lenght of the sail. =
The seams look solid, but this could become a potential point of failure =
as the sail gets older.<br><br>One thing we've tried to do to get longer =
sail life is carry both a North light/medium #1 jib as well as a medium =
heavy #1. My thought is that the light jib will last longer if we don't =
carry it up to the top of it's range and the medium heavy #1 will hold =
it's shape better in the teens. But as Dave pointed out, it gives us one =
more sail choice decision to sweat over. And unfortunately, we have not =
really seen a speed advantage against Wolverine when we've had the =
medium heavy #1 up against their Light medium #1.<br><br>We also bought =
a paneled North kevlar/mylar 145% #2. We don't use it much and I thought =
it would last longer than our previous 3DL #2. We'll see.<br><br>I =
should also caution you that the last two sails we bought from North - =
the heavy #1 and the paneled #2 were both cut with the clews so low that =
they to-blocked before we could trim them in all the way. Both sails had =
to go back to North to have the clews re-done. They are now O.K., but no =
longer perfect. The North sailmaker said this is not the case, but I =
think the loft must have an incorrect measurement on file for the Frers =
33 track height and have not updated it. I am not the only boat that has =
had this problem with low clews on North jibs and it seems to go back =
many years. If you order a North jib I would ask them to measure and =
make it clear that you will not accept the recut sail if you have this =
problem.<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>
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