[frers-list]RE: Racing Headsail Choices

[Arthur Kelley]

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Edgar,

Interesting point about the clews. With my new light/medium #1 we found that=
 the tack is too low. The spreader patch was below the spreader and too much=
 of the foot was on the deck. Instead of connecting it to the tack fitting w=
e clip the tack shackle into another snap shackle that had been fitted for a=
 jib that did not have it's own shackle. That extra 3-4" made a difference.=20=


Art

> On Sep 7, 2015, at 11:54 PM, Edgar Smith <Edgar@geomatrixproductions.com> w=
rote:
>=20
> I've been pretty disgusted with the life of the we get from North 3DL sail=
s and recently we've tried a few alternitives. In your list of choices you m=
ention molded sails like Doyle Stratus and North 3DI. You may already know t=
his, but North actually offers two different molded sails, the 3DL and 3DI. T=
he 3DI is a newer technology than the 3DL. It is made of molded fibers only,=
 and there is no mylar layer. The first generation 3DIs were gray, and the n=
ew ones are black. They are about 25% more expensive than 3DLs. The Paneled m=
ylar sails are usually slightly less than the 3DLs but in some cases even sl=
ightly more expensive. People seem happy with the 3DIs, but I have not tried=
 them. Art Kelly's is fast.
>=20
> Saying which sail lasts the longest depends somewhat on your definition of=
 when the sail is no longer good enough.  In my experience, a paneled mylar s=
ail will hold together a long time but it's shape will move more making it a=
 slower sail, while the 3DL holds it's shape petty well until the mylar gets=
 brittle and then the sail begins to come apart pretty quickly. On the Frers=
, we have been able to race our 3DLs for a maximum of 4 years. Neither of ou=
r last two mains were very good after 3 years. Late this summer we bought a n=
ew main by a successful sail designer in our area; Fries Sail Design. Some v=
ery good boats use his sails, and I got good feedback from the owners about h=
ow well they've held up. The main cost a few dollars more than the quote we h=
ad for a North 3DL. John Fries says we should expect better longevity from i=
t than we saw with the 3DLs because he uses a superior mylar and a higher th=
read count. I'll know in about 3 years if that is true. We'll race Wolverine=
 in two weeks, and should get a good  speed comparison with Dave's new 3DL N=
orth main. So far we think it looks really good.
>=20
> The Fries sail is made a a facility in Capetown. I assume it is made by th=
e Ulman loft located there, but don't know for sure. One difference I notice=
d was that the sail has a similar load path thread layout as the 3DL but it i=
s made with seams, so the treads are not actually continious the entire leng=
ht of the sail. The seams look solid, but this could become a potential poin=
t of failure as the sail gets older.
>=20
> One thing we've tried to do to get longer sail life is carry both a North l=
ight/medium #1 jib as well as a medium heavy #1. My thought is that the ligh=
t jib will last longer if we don't carry it up to the top of it's range and t=
he medium heavy #1 will hold it's shape better in the teens. But as Dave poi=
nted out, it gives us one more sail choice decision to sweat over. And unfor=
tunately, we have not really seen a speed advantage against Wolverine when w=
e've had the medium heavy #1 up against their Light medium #1.
>=20
> We also bought a paneled North kevlar/mylar 145% #2. We don't use it much a=
nd I thought it would last longer than our previous 3DL #2. We'll see.
>=20
> I should also caution you that the last two sails we bought from North - t=
he heavy #1 and the paneled #2 were both cut with the clews so low that they=
 to-blocked before we could trim them in all the way. Both sails had to go b=
ack to North to have the clews re-done. They are now O.K., but no longer per=
fect. The North sailmaker said this is not the case, but I think the loft mu=
st have an incorrect measurement on file for the Frers 33 track height and h=
ave not updated it. I am not the only boat that has had this problem with lo=
w clews on North jibs and it seems to go back many years. If you order a Nor=
th jib I would ask them to measure and make it clear that you will not accep=
t the recut sail if you have this problem.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Edgar,</div><div><br></div><div>Interesting point about the clews. With my new light/medium #1 we found that the tack is too low. The spreader patch was below the spreader and too much of the foot was on the deck. Instead of connecting it to the tack fitting we clip the tack shackle into another snap shackle that had been fitted for a jib that did not have it's own shackle. That extra 3-4" made a difference.&nbsp;<br><br>Art</div><div><br>On Sep 7, 2015, at 11:54 PM, Edgar Smith &lt;<a href="mailto:Edgar@geomatrixproductions.com">Edgar@geomatrixproductions.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>

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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: 10pt;">I've been pretty disgusted with the life of the we get from North 3DL sails and recently we've tried a few alternitives. In your list of choices you mention molded sails like Doyle
 Stratus and North 3DI. You may already know this, but North actually offers two different molded sails, the 3DL and 3DI. The 3DI is a newer technology than the 3DL. It is made of molded fibers only, and there is no mylar layer. The first generation 3DIs were
 gray, and the new ones are black. They are about 25% more expensive than 3DLs. The Paneled mylar sails are usually slightly less than the 3DLs but in some cases even slightly more expensive. People seem happy with the 3DIs, but I have not tried them. Art Kelly's
 is fast.<br>
<br>
Saying which sail lasts the longest depends somewhat on your definition of when the sail is no longer good enough.&nbsp; In my experience, a paneled mylar sail will hold together a long time but it's shape will move more making it a slower sail, while the 3DL holds
 it's shape petty well until the mylar gets brittle and then the sail begins to come apart pretty quickly. On the Frers, we have been able to race our 3DLs for a maximum of 4 years. Neither of our last two mains were very good after 3 years. Late this summer
 we bought a new main by a successful sail designer in our area; Fries Sail Design. Some very good boats use his sails, and I got good feedback from the owners about how well they've held up. The main cost a few dollars more than the quote we had for a North
 3DL. John Fries says we should expect better longevity from it than we saw with the 3DLs because he uses a superior mylar and a higher thread count. I'll know in about 3 years if that is true. We'll race Wolverine in two weeks, and should get a good&nbsp; speed
 comparison with Dave's new 3DL North main. So far we think it looks really good.<br>
<br>
The Fries sail is made a a facility in Capetown. I assume it is made by the Ulman loft located there, but don't know for sure. One difference I noticed was that the sail has a similar load path thread layout as the 3DL but it is made with seams, so the treads
 are not actually continious the entire lenght of the sail. The seams look solid, but this could become a potential point of failure as the sail gets older.<br>
<br>
One thing we've tried to do to get longer sail life is carry both a North light/medium #1 jib as well as a medium heavy #1. My thought is that the light jib will last longer if we don't carry it up to the top of it's range and the medium heavy #1 will hold
 it's shape better in the teens. But as Dave pointed out, it gives us one more sail choice decision to sweat over. And unfortunately, we have not really seen a speed advantage against Wolverine when we've had the medium heavy #1 up against their Light medium
 #1.<br>
<br>
We also bought a paneled North kevlar/mylar 145% #2. We don't use it much and I thought it would last longer than our previous 3DL #2. We'll see.<br>
<br>
I should also caution you that the last two sails we bought from North - the heavy #1 and the paneled #2 were both cut with the clews so low that they to-blocked before we could trim them in all the way. Both sails had to go back to North to have the clews
 re-done. They are now O.K., but no longer perfect. The North sailmaker said this is not the case, but I think the loft must have an incorrect measurement on file for the Frers 33 track height and have not updated it. I am not the only boat that has had this
 problem with low clews on North jibs and it seems to go back many years. If you order a North jib I would ask them to measure and make it clear that you will not accept the recut sail if you have this problem.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>


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