[frers-list]PHRF Rating
Brown, Junius {PCNA}
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Tue, 29 Jun 2004 13:15:54 -0500
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I agree that this is something we should pursue. In my experience with PHRF
committees, the key here is for us as a group to collect race results. A
preponderance of data against a variety of competitors in a variety of
conditions will be required for a rating modification for a boat as old as
ours. We all race, we should be able to gather, compile and make a case.
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Albert Francis X
NSSC
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 11:51 AM
To: 'frers-list@lists.frers33.com'
Subject: RE: [frers-list]PHRF Rating
I think overall (Kurt you're the class President so chime in here)
considering the age of the boat, the materials currently being built into
newer boats (like the new C&C 9.9 which has a lot of carbon fiber including
the entire mast, a different keel with most of the weight down low which
allows them to stay on their feet even though they have a substantially
lower ballast to displacement ratio than the Frers 33, a water line that is
31 inches longer and basically a completely different bottom shape) would
make you want to take a hard look at adjusting the PHRF of the class. If
you're racing anything other than one design you're struggling. The C&C 9.9
has a PHRF of 102 which says it is 12 seconds a mile faster than the Frers
33. It' honestly a lot faster than that (by observation). Or the Frers 33
is not as fast as it used to be.
My two cents worth.
Frank Albert
-----Original Message-----
From: Allan Heyward [mailto:heyward@chllh.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 9:53
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: RE: [frers-list]PHRF Rating
A friend here on the Chesapeake who races J-29s now (PHRF 111) but who raced
on and against (in J-29s) Frers 33s on the great lakes, believes strongly
that they should be at least 120. He says he has the data to support it
which he has offered should we decide to ask for reconsideration of the base
rating on the Chesapeake. I've been reluctant to pursue it since it would
affect others and could backfire given the lower base ratings elsewhere.
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.
804-747-4500
-----Original Message-----
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Albert Francis X
NSSC
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 5:33 AM
To: 'frers-list@lists.frers33.com'
Subject: RE: [frers-list]PHRF Rating
I'm on the Chesapeake Bay and our PHRF here is 114. Higher than a lot of
places but still 120 would be better. At 114 we are one of the slowest
boats in the PHRF "A2" class which runs from about 84 to 119. At 120 we'd
be one of the faster boats and that class runs from 119 to 154.
Frank Albert
Relentless
-----Original Message-----
From: >gm [mailto:garymoore@optonline.net]
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 21:48
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]PHRF Rating
What's your PHRF rating & where are you located?
>gm
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D465321318-29062004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I=20
agree that this is something we should pursue. In my experience =
with PHRF=20
committees, the key here is for us as a group to collect race=20
results. A preponderance of data against a variety of =
competitors in=20
a variety of conditions will be required for a rating modification for =
a boat as=20
old as ours. We all race, we should be able to =
gather, compile=20
and make a case.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]=20
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Albert Francis X NSSC<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, =
June 29,=20
2004 11:51 AM<BR><B>To:</B> =
'frers-list@lists.frers33.com'<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
RE: [frers-list]PHRF Rating<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle20><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">I=20
think overall (Kurt you’re the class President so chime in =
here) considering=20
the age of the boat, the materials currently being built into newer =
boats=20
(like the new C&C 9.9 which has a lot of carbon fiber including =
the entire=20
mast, a different keel with most of the weight down low which allows =
them to=20
stay on their feet even though they have a substantially lower =
ballast to=20
displacement ratio than the Frers 33, a water line that is 31 inches =
longer=20
and basically a completely different bottom shape) would make you =
want to take=20
a hard look at adjusting the PHRF of the class.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If you’re racing =
anything other than=20
one design you’re struggling.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes"> </SPAN>The=20
C&C 9.9 has a PHRF of 102 which says it is 12 seconds a mile =
faster than=20
the Frers 33.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</SPAN>It’ honestly a lot=20
faster than that (by observation).<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes"> =20
</SPAN>Or the Frers 33 is not as fast as it used to=20
be.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle20><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle20><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">My two=20
cents worth.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle20><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle20><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Frank=20
Albert <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle20><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3Dblack=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">-----Original=20
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> =
Allan=20
Heyward [mailto:heyward@chllh.com]<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, June 29, 2004=20
9:53<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [frers-list]PHRF=20
Rating</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">A friend=20
here on the Chesapeake who races J-29s now (PHRF 111) but who raced =
on and=20
against (in J-29s) Frers 33s on the great lakes, believes strongly =
that they=20
should be at least 120. He says he has the data to support it =
which he=20
has offered should we decide to ask for reconsideration of the base =
rating on=20
the Chesapeake. I’ve been reluctant to pursue it since it =
would affect=20
others and could backfire given the lower base ratings elsewhere.=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Allan M.=20
Heyward, Jr.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">COOK,=20
HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C.</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoAutoSig style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">804-747-4500</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3Dblack=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">-----Original=20
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> =
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]=20
<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Albert =
Francis X=20
NSSC<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> =
Tuesday, June 29,=20
2004 5:33 AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
'frers-list@lists.frers33.com'<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [frers-list]PHRF=20
Rating</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><SPAN =
class=3Demailstyle16><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I’m on the =
Chesapeake Bay and our=20
PHRF here is 114. Higher than a lot of places but still 120 =
would be=20
better. At 114 we are one of the slowest boats in the PHRF =
“A2” class=20
which runs from about 84 to 119. At 120 we’d be one of =
the faster boats=20
and that class runs from 119 to 154.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><SPAN =
class=3Demailstyle16><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><SPAN =
class=3Demailstyle16><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Frank=20
Albert</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><SPAN =
class=3Demailstyle16><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Relentless=20
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><SPAN =
class=3Demailstyle16><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3Dblack=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">-----Original=20
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> =
>gm=20
[mailto:garymoore@optonline.net]<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, June 28, 2004=20
21:48<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [frers-list]PHRF=20
Rating</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblack=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">What's=20
your PHRF rating & where are you located?</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblack=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">>gm</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTM=
L>
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