[frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #167 - 2 msgs

Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:40:01 +0000

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All,
My boat was mfg in 88 and I think its hull # 44. I also had cracks on both ends of the transverse stringer,  but I attribute it to the softness in the mast step and migration of water into the keel root. Prior to having mine fixed, we were sailing in a gentle 10 kt breeze with very light chop and I was lying on the side deck abeam of the mast content to let the others steer. It was then that I noticed that the mast was pumping  above the top spreader to the mast head every time we hit the chop. I checked play in the shrouds, forestay and backstay and everything seemed normal. I think what was really happening is that the hull was flexing and that may have also caused those cracks in that stringer. By the way-that stringer is hollw so it doesn't offer much structural support to start with. CM had to keep the weight down one way or another. 

Frank Wittosch
Peppreke 2.0

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> Today's Topics: 
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> 1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Dan Boyd) 
> 2. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Kurt Hudson) 
> 
> --__--__-- 
> 
> Message: 1 
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com 
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 
> From: Dan Boyd 
> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:38:39 -0500 
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com 
> 
> This is a multipart message in MIME format. 
> --=_alternative 007167698525710A_= 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" 
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 
> 
> WildThing is MFG in 1988. 
> 
> Dan Boyd 
> Biogen Idec Inc 
> Tel: 1.617.679.2274 
> Fax: 1.617.679.3599 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01" =20 
> Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com 
> 02/03/2006 03:14 PM 
> Please respond to 
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com 
> Message Size: 32.4 KB 
> 
> To 
> 
> cc 
> 
> Subject 
> RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if anyone=20 
> knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what year was = 
> 
> your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been built in the=20 
> same year as mine. 
> =20 
> Thanks, 
> Frank Albert 
> =20 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20 
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X=20 
> CIV SEA 01 
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09 
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com 
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 
> =20 
> Bob, 
> =20 
> My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water=20 
> getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there=20 
> was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would suppose=20 
> the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions=20 
> someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to = 
> 
> 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull=20 
> thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are=20 
> right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the=20 
> keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it=20 
> using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then next year they will=20 
> remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their=20 
> experience with this process has taught them a couple of things. First=20 
> most boats had the keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of=20 
> 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not = 
> 
> want to let go. They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours=20 
> with the only thing holding the keel up being the 5200. 
> =20 
> If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it. 
> =20 
> Thanks, 
> Frank Albert 
> =20 
> =20 
> =20 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20 
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward 
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03 
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com 
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 
> =20 
> Bob 
> =20 
> I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I?ve=20 
> read Frank?s response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things=20 
> to add, based on my experience: 
> =20 
> The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the=20 
> stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the=20 
> keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don?t know for = 
> 
> certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may not=20 
> have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a potential=20 
> structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows=20 
> separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute to=20 
> deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: the=20 
> reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, but a=20 
> crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in the hull. = 
> 
> This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and that you should = 
> 
> look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is=20 
> not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to check is the=20 
> keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine)=20 
> there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused=20 
> substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts. 
> =20 
> Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and=20 
> race. 
> =20 
> Allan M. Heyward, Jr. 
> COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C. 
> 804-747-4500 
> =20 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20 
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM 
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com 
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 
> =20 
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33. 
> =20 
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in=20 
> hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats? 
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is this=20 
> reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite? 
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for? 
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull=20 
> design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding. 
> =20 
> =20 
> I live in the Chicago area 
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on ?what to look=20 
> for? 
> =20 
> Bob 
> =20 
> 
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= 
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= 
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= 
> =5F=5F 
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: 
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for 
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may 
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from 
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message 
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible 
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby 
> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this 
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, 
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com 
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. 
> 
> --=_alternative 007167698525710A_= 
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" 
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 
> 
> 
> 
WildThing is MFG in 1988. 
> 

> 
Dan Boyd

> Biogen Idec Inc

> Tel:  1.617.679.2274

> Fax:  1.617.679.3599

> 
> 

> 

> 

> 
> 
> "Albert, Francis= 
> X 
> CIV SEA 01" <francis.albert@navy.mil> 
> 
Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frer= 
> s33.com 
> 
02/03/2006 03:14 PM 
> 
> 
> 
> 
Please respond to

> frers-list@lists.frers33.com

> 
Message Size: 32.4 KB 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
To

> <frers-list@lists.frers33.com>= 
> 
> 

> 
> 
cc

> 
> 

> 
> 
Subject

> RE: [frers-list]questions on a purch= 
> ase 
> of a frers 33

> 

> 
> 
> 
> 

> 

> 

> 

> 
Alright big question is w= 
> here 
> all these boats made the same and if anyone knows of a different version. 
>  Allen your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built?  Wi= 
> ld 
> thing was number 37 and may have been built in the same year as mine. 
> 

> 
Thanks, 
> 
Frank Albert 
> 

> 
-----Original Message-----

> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists= 
> .frers33.com]On 
> Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01

> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09

> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com

> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 
> 

> 
Bob, 
> 

> 
My boat may have that new = 
> crack 
> problem.  I noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area. 
>  This fall when they hauled the boat there was a crack right at the 
> top of the keel right at where you would suppose the keel to hull joint 
> would be (however, in one of these discussions someone mentioned the actual 
> hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from 
> the bilge was seeping out.  That lower hull thing seems pretty strange 
> and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right at that crack.  The= 
> ir 
> suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out 
> the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol.   They 
> said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove the bolts and 
> lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches.  Their experience with 
> this process has taught them a couple of things.  First most boats 
> had the keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread 
> over the entire top of the keel.  Second, 5200 really does not want 
> to let go.  They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours 
> with the only thing holding the keel up being the 5200. 
> 

> 
If anyone has had a similar 
> experience I'd like to hear about it. 
> 

> 
Thanks, 
> 
Frank Albert 
> 

> 

> 

> 
-----Original Message-----

> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists= 
> .frers33.com]On 
> Behalf Of Allan Heyward

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03

> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com

> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 
> 

> 
Bob 
> 

> 
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that 
> sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay.  I�ve read Frank�s = 
> response 
> on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my 
> experience: 
> 

> 
The construction of the tr= 
> ansverse 
> stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading edge 
> of the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition 
> into the hull.  I don�t know for certain if this will be true on 
> all boats, as I understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but 
> where it exists,  it creates a potential structural weak point.  = 
> If 
> the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get 
> a leak that will not only contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, 
> but provides a path to the bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing 
> separation between keel and hull, but a crack in the sump which, over time 
> and load can create a tear in the hull.  This is one reason a fix 
> from the inside is desirable and that you should look carefully at the 
> leading edge of the keel at the hull.  The fix is not as traumatic 
> as the problem sounds.  The other thing to check is the keel bolts 
> for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there was a 
> mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial 
> erosion of several of the keel bolts. 
> 

> 
Other than that, the boat = 
> is 
> strong as an ox and a delight to sail and race. 
> 

> 
Allan M. Heyward, Jr.> nt> 
> 
COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER 
> & FEEHAN, P.C. 
> 
804-747-4500 
> 

> 
-----Original Message-----

> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists= 
> .frers33.com] 
> On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert

> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM

> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com

> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 
> 

> 
I am currently interested in purchasing a 
> frers 33. 
> 

> 
1)     &nb= 
> sp; 
> Can anyone update me as to where any s= 
> pecific 
> coring issues in hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most 
> of these boats? 
> 
2)     &nb= 
> sp; 
> If I wanted to change out the wheel st= 
> eering 
> to a tiller is this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphid= 
> ite? 
> 
3)     &nb= 
> sp; 
> Any questionable electrical to look fo= 
> r? 
> 
4)     &nb= 
> sp; 
> Any concern on the design as it relates 
> to the keel to hull design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.> ont> 
> 

> 

> 
I live in the Chicago area 
> 
Thanks for any advice or information anyone 
> can offer on �what to look for� 
> 

> 
Bob 
> 

> 
> 

> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= 
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= 
> =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= 
> =5F=5F

> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:

> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for

> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may

> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from

> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message

> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible

> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby

> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this

> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,

> please notify us immediately by e-mail at > erstephen.com>legal@weberstep= 
> hen.com

> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. 
> 

> --=_alternative 007167698525710A_=-- 
> 
> --__--__-- 
> 
> Message: 2 
> From: "Kurt Hudson" 
> To: 
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 
> Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:51:23 -0500 
> Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com 
> 
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. 
> 
> ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C628D9.AF427420 
> Content-Type: text/plain; 
> charset="us-ascii" 
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
> 
> Eclipse is hull #29 MFG 1987 
> 
> 
> 
> _____ 
> 
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com 
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Dan Boyd 
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:39 PM 
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com 
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildThing is MFG in 1988. 
> 
> Dan Boyd 
> Biogen Idec Inc 
> Tel: 1.617.679.2274 
> Fax: 1.617.679.3599 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01" 
> Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com 
> 
> 02/03/2006 03:14 PM 
> 
> 
> Please respond to 
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com 
> 
> Message Size: 32.4 KB 
> 
> 
> To 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cc 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subject 
> 
> RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if anyone 
> knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what year was 
> your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been built in the 
> same year as mine. 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
> Frank Albert 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com 
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X 
> CIV SEA 01 
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09 
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com 
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 
> 
> 
> 
> Bob, 
> 
> 
> 
> My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water 
> getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there was 
> a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would suppose the 
> keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions someone 
> mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 
> inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull thing 
> seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right at 
> that crack. Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and 
> then grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol. 
> They said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove the bolts and 
> lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their experience with this 
> process has taught them a couple of things. First most boats had the keels 
> joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire 
> top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had 
> boats in the lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the 
> keel up being the 5200. 
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it. 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
> Frank Albert 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com 
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward 
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03 
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com 
> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 
> 
> 
> 
> Bob 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've 
> read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to 
> add, based on my experience: 
> 
> 
> 
> The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the stringer 
> that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the keel is 
> bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know for certain 
> if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may not have wood in 
> the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a potential structural weak 
> point. If the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows separation you 
> will get a leak that will not only contribute to deterioration of the wood 
> stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: the reason is that you are not 
> seeing separation between keel and hull, but a crack in the sump which, over 
> time and load can create a tear in the hull. This is one reason a fix from 
> the inside is desirable and that you should look carefully at the leading 
> edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem 
> sounds. The other thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice 
> corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between 
> stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several 
> of the keel bolts. 
> 
> 
> 
> Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and race. 
> 
> 
> 
> Allan M. Heyward, Jr. 
> COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, P.C. 
> 804-747-4500 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com 
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM 
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com 
> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 
> 
> 
> 
> I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33. 
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in hull 
> or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats? 
> 
> 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is this 
> reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite? 
> 
> 3) Any questionable electrical to look for? 
> 
> 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull design 
> or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I live in the Chicago area 
> 
> Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look for" 
> 
> 
> 
> Bob 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________ 
> _ 
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: 
> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for 
> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may 
> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from 
> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message 
> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible 
> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby 
> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this 
> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, 
> please notify us immediately by e-mail at 
> legal@weberstephen.com 
> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. 
> 
> 
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> 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size: 
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Eclipse is hull #29 MFG = 
> 1987

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size: 
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> 

> 
> 

> 
> 
> size=3D3 
> face=3D"Times New Roman"> 
> 
> 

> 
> 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; 
> font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:> size=3D2 
> face=3DTahoma> 
> frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com = 
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of Dan Boyd

> Sent: Friday, February = 
> 03, 2006 
> 3:39 PM

> To: = 
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com

> Subject: RE: = 
> [frers-list]questions 
> on a purchase of a frers 33

> 
> 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size: 
> 12.0pt'> 

> 
> 
> face=3D"Times New Roman">

> > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; 
> font-family:sans-serif'>WildThing is MFG in 1988. 

> 

> > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Dan 
> Boyd

> Biogen Idec Inc

> Tel:  1.617.679.2274

> Fax:  1.617.679.3599

> 

> 

> 

> 
> > style=3D'width:100.0%'> 
> 
> > .75pt .75pt .75pt'> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size: 
> 7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;font-weight:bold'>"Albert, = 
> > w:st=3D"on">Francis = 
> > w:st=3D"on">X > w:st=3D"on">CIV > w:st=3D"on">SEA 01" 
> <francis.albert@navy.mil>> face=3Dsans-serif>> style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'> 

> > style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Sent 
> by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com 

> 
> style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family: 
> sans-serif'>02/03/2006 03:14 PM 

> 
> 
> > style=3D'background:white;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> 
> 
> style=3D'text-align:center'>> face=3Dsans-serif>> style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Please 
> respond to

> frers-list@lists.frers33.com

> 
> 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family: 
> sans-serif'>Message Size: 32.4 = 
> KB 
> 

> 
> > .75pt .75pt .75pt'> 
> > width=3D"100%" 
> style=3D'width:100.0%'> 
> 
> 
> 
> size=3D1 
> face=3Dsans-serif>> style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>To> :p>

> 
> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size: 
> = 
> 7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'><frers-list@lists.frers33.com>= 
> 
> 

> 
> 

> 
> 
> 
> size=3D1 
> face=3Dsans-serif>> style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>cc> :p>

> 
> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> 

> 
> 

> 
> 
> 
> size=3D1 
> face=3Dsans-serif>> style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Subject> p>

> 
> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size: 
> 7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>RE: [frers-list]questions on a = 
> purchase of a 
> frers 33

> 
> 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> 

> 
> 
> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> 

> 
> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> 

> 
> 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

> 
> 

> 
> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size: 
> 12.0pt'>

> 

> 

> > style=3D'font-size: 
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>Alright big question is where = 
> all these 
> boats made the same and if anyone knows of a different version. = 
>  Allen 
> your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built?  Wild thing = 
> was 
> number 37 and may have been built in the same year as = 
> mine. 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; 
> font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>  

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; 
> font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>Thanks, 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; 
> font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>Frank Albert = 
> 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; 
> font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>  

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original 
> Message-----

> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com 
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On 
> Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01> style=3D'font-weight: 
> bold'>

> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09> style=3D'font-weight: 
> bold'>

> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com> style=3D'font-weight:bold'>

> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers = 
> 33 
> 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>  

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>Bob, 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>  

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>My boat may have that new crack problem.  I = 
> noticed last 
> summer water getting in to the bilge area.  This fall when they = 
> hauled the 
> boat there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you = 
> would 
> suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these = 
> discussions 
> someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 = 
> to 12 
> inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out.  That lower hull = 
> thing 
> seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right = 
> at that 
> crack.  Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts = 
> and 
> then grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using = 
> alcohol. 
>   They said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove = 
> the bolts 
> and lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches.  Their experience = 
> with 
> this process has taught them a couple of things.  First most boats = 
> had the 
> keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over = 
> the 
> entire top of the keel.  Second, 5200 really does not want to let = 
> go. 
>  They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours with the = 
> only 
> thing holding the keel up being the 5200. 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>  

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to = 
> hear about 
> it. 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>  

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>Thanks, 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>Frank Albert 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>  

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>    

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>  

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original 
> Message-----

> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com 
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]> style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On 
> Behalf Of Allan Heyward> style=3D'font-weight:bold'>

> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03> style=3D'font-weight: 
> bold'>

> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com> style=3D'font-weight:bold'>

> Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers = 
> 33 
> 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>  

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>Bob 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>  

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the = 
> > w:st=3D"on">Chesapeake Bay.  I�ve read = 
> Frank�s 
> response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to add, = 
> based on 
> my experience: 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>  

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a = 
> void 
> below the stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to = 
> which 
> the keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull.  I 
> don�t know for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I = 
> understand 
> some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists,  it = 
> creates 
> a potential structural weak point.  If the leading edge of the keel = 
> at the 
> hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute = 
> to 
> deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: = 
> the 
> reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, but = 
> a crack 
> in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in the hull. = 
>  This 
> is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and that you should = 
> look 
> carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull.  The fix is = 
> not as 
> traumatic as the problem sounds.  The other thing to check is the = 
> keel 
> bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there = 
> was a 
> mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial 
> erosion of several of the keel bolts. 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>  

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a = 
> delight to 
> sail and race. 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>  

> > style=3D'font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Allan M. 
> Heyward, Jr. 

> > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER & FEEHAN, = 
> P.C. 

> > style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>804-747-4500 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:navy'>  

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original 
> Message-----

> From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com 
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] > style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On 
> Behalf Of Stephen, Robert> style=3D'font-weight:bold'>

> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM> style=3D'font-weight: 
> bold'>

> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com> style=3D'font-weight:bold'>

> Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers = 
> 33 
> 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>  

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I 
> am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33. = 
> 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>  
> 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>1)> size=3D1>       = 
> > size=3D2 face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can anyone 
> update me as to where any specific coring issues in hull or the deck = 
> area that 
> might be consistent with most of these boats? = 
> 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>2)> size=3D1>       = 
> > size=3D2 face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If I wanted 
> to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is this reasonable or does = 
> the 
> installation look like a morphidite? 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>3)> size=3D1>       = 
> > size=3D2 face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any 
> questionable electrical to look for? 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>4)> size=3D1>       = 
> > size=3D2 face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Any concern 
> on the design as it relates to the keel to hull design or attachment. = 
> Separate 
> from a bad grounding. 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>  
> 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>  
> 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I 
> live in the > w:st=3D"on">Chicago 
> area 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Thanks 
> for any advice or information anyone can offer on �what to look 
> for� 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>  
> 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bob 
> 

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>  
>           

> 
> 
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: 
> Arial;color:blue'>

> _________________________________________________________________________= 
> ____

> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE:

> This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for

> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may

> contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from

> disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail = 
> message

> is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible

> for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are = 
> hereby

> notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this

> communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in = 
> error,

> please notify us immediately by e-mail at > href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com">> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>legal@weberstephen.com> >> size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial>> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; 
> color:blue'>

> and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. = 
> 

> 
> 

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C628D9.AF427420-- 
> 
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> 
> --__--__-- 
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<html><body>
<DIV>All,</DIV>
<DIV>My boat was mfg in 88 and I think its hull # 44. I also had&nbsp;cracks on both ends of the transverse stringer, &nbsp;but I attribute it to the softness in the mast step and migration of water into the keel root. Prior to having mine fixed, we were sailing in a gentle 10 kt breeze with very light chop and I was lying on the side deck abeam of the mast content to let the others steer. It was then that I noticed that the mast was pumping&nbsp; above the top spreader to the mast head every time we hit the chop. I checked play in the shrouds, forestay and backstay and everything seemed normal. I think what was really happening is that the hull&nbsp;was flexing and that may have also caused those cracks in that stringer. By the way-that stringer is hollw so it doesn't offer much structural support to start with. CM had to&nbsp;keep the weight down one way or another. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Frank Wittosch</DIV>
<DIV>Peppreke 2.0</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com &gt; Send frers-list mailing list submissions to &gt; frers-list@lists.frers33.com &gt; &gt; To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit &gt; http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list &gt; or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to &gt; frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com &gt; &gt; You can reach the person managing the list at &gt; frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com &gt; &gt; When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific &gt; than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..." &gt; &gt; &gt; Today's Topics: &gt; &gt; 1. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Dan Boyd) &gt; 2. RE: questions on a purchase of a frers 33 (Kurt Hudson) &gt; &gt; --__--__-- &gt; &gt; Message: 1 &gt; To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com &gt; Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 &gt; From: Dan Boyd <DAN.BOYD@BIOGENIDEC.COM> &gt; Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:38:39 -0500 &gt; Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com &gt; &gt; This is a multipart message in MIME format. &gt; --=_alternative 007167698525710A_= &gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" &gt; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable &gt; &gt; WildThing is MFG in 1988. &gt; &gt; Dan Boyd &gt; Biogen Idec Inc &gt; Tel: 1.617.679.2274 &gt; Fax: 1.617.679.3599 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01" <FRANCIS.ALBERT@NAVY.MIL>=20 &gt; Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com &gt; 02/03/2006 03:14 PM &gt; Please respond to &gt; frers-list@lists.frers33.com &gt; Message Size: 32.4 KB &gt; &gt; To &gt; <FRERS-LIST@LISTS.FRERS33.COM> &gt; cc &gt; &gt; Subject &gt; RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if anyone=20 &gt; knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what year was = &gt; &gt; your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been built in the=20 &gt; same year as mine. &gt; =20 &gt; Thanks, &gt; Frank Albert &gt; =20 &gt; -----Original Message----- &gt; From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20 &gt; [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X=20 &gt; CIV SEA 01 &gt; Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09 &gt; To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com &gt; Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 &gt; =20 &gt; Bob, &gt; =20 &gt; My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water=20 &gt; getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there=20 &gt; was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would suppose=20 &gt; the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions=20 &gt; someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to = &gt; &gt; 12 inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull=20 &gt; thing seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are=20 &gt; right at that crack. Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the=20 &gt; keel bolts and then grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it=20 &gt; using alcohol. They said if that doesn't work then next year they will=20 &gt; remove the bolts and lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their=20 &gt; experience with this process has taught them a couple of things. First=20 &gt; most boats had the keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of=20 &gt; 5200 spread over the entire top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not = &gt; &gt; want to let go. They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours=20 &gt; with the only thing holding the keel up being the 5200. &gt; =20 &gt; If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it. &gt; =20 &gt; Thanks, &gt; Frank Albert &gt; =20 &gt; =20 &gt; =20 &gt; -----Original Message----- &gt; From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20 &gt; [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward &gt; Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03 &gt; To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com &gt; Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 &gt; =20 &gt; Bob &gt; =20 &gt; I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I?ve=20 &gt; read Frank?s response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things=20 &gt; to add, based on my experience: &gt; =20 &gt; The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the=20 &gt; stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the=20 &gt; keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don?t know for = &gt; &gt; certain if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may not=20 &gt; have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a potential=20 &gt; structural weak point. If the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows=20 &gt; separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute to=20 &gt; deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: the=20 &gt; reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, but a=20 &gt; crack in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in the hull. = &gt; &gt; This is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and that you should = &gt; &gt; look carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is=20 &gt; not as traumatic as the problem sounds. The other thing to check is the=20 &gt; keel bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine)=20 &gt; there was a mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused=20 &gt; substantial erosion of several of the keel bolts. &gt; =20 &gt; Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and=20 &gt; race. &gt; =20 &gt; Allan M. Heyward, Jr. &gt; COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER &amp; FEEHAN, P.C. &gt; 804-747-4500 &gt; =20 &gt; -----Original Message----- &gt; From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com=20 &gt; [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert &gt; Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM &gt; To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com &gt; Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 &gt; =20 &gt; I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33. &gt; =20 &gt; 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in=20 &gt; hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats? &gt; 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is this=20 &gt; reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite? &gt; 3) Any questionable electrical to look for? &gt; 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull=20 &gt; design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding. &gt; =20 &gt; =20 &gt; I live in the Chicago area &gt; Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on ?what to look=20 &gt; for? &gt; =20 &gt; Bob &gt; =20 &gt; &gt; =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= &gt; =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= &gt; =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= &gt; =5F=5F &gt; CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: &gt; This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for &gt; the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may &gt; contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from &gt; disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message &gt; is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible &gt; for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby &gt; notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this &gt; communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, &gt; please notify us immediately by e-mail at legal@weberstephen.com &gt; and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. &gt; &gt; --=_alternative 007167698525710A_= &gt; Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" &gt; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable &gt; &gt; &gt; WildThing is MFG in 1988. &gt; &gt; Dan Boyd &gt; Biogen Idec Inc &gt; Tel: &nbsp;1.617.679.2274 &gt; Fax: &nbsp;1.617.679.3599 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 
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<TD width=3>"Albert, Francis= &gt; X &gt; CIV SEA 01" &lt;francis.albert@navy.mil&gt; &gt; Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frer= &gt; s33.com &gt; 
02/03/2006 03:14 PM &gt; 
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<DIV align=3Dcenter>Please respond to &gt; frers-list@lists.frers33.com</DIV></TR></TBODY></TABLE> &gt; 
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<TD>&lt;frers-list@lists.frers33.com&gt;= &gt; &gt; 
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<DIV align=3Dright>Subject</DIV> &gt; 
<TD>RE: [frers-list]questions on a purch= &gt; ase &gt; of a frers 33</TR></TBODY></TABLE> &gt; &gt; 
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<TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> &gt; </TR></TBODY></TABLE> &gt; &gt; &gt; Alright big question is w= &gt; here &gt; all these boats made the same and if anyone knows of a different version. &gt; &nbsp;Allen your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built? &nbsp;Wi= &gt; ld &gt; thing was number 37 and may have been built in the same year as mine. &gt; 
 &gt; 
Thanks, &gt; 
Frank Albert &gt; 
 &gt; 
-----Original Message----- &gt; From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists= &gt; .frers33.com]On &gt; Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01 &gt; Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09 &gt; To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com &gt; Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 &gt; 
 &gt; 
Bob, &gt; 
 &gt; 
My boat may have that new = &gt; crack &gt; problem. &nbsp;I noticed last summer water getting in to the bilge area. &gt; &nbsp;This fall when they hauled the boat there was a crack right at the &gt; top of the keel right at where you would suppose the keel to hull joint &gt; would be (however, in one of these discussions someone mentioned the actual &gt; hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 inches) and water from &gt; the bilge was seeping out. &nbsp;That lower hull thing seems pretty strange &gt; and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right at that crack. &nbsp;The= &gt; ir &gt; suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and then grind out &gt; the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol. &nbsp; They &gt; said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove the bolts and &gt; lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. &nbsp;Their experience with &gt; this process has taught them a couple of things. &nbsp;First most boats &gt; had the keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread &gt; over the entire top of the keel. &nbsp;Second, 5200 really does not want &gt; to let go. &nbsp;They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours &gt; with the only thing holding the keel up being the 5200. &gt; 
 &gt; 
If anyone has had a similar &gt; experience I'd like to hear about it. &gt; 
 &gt; 
Thanks, &gt; 
Frank Albert &gt; 
 &gt; 
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; 
 &gt; 
-----Original Message----- &gt; From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists= &gt; .frers33.com]On &gt; Behalf Of Allan Heyward &gt; Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03 &gt; To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com &gt; Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 &gt; 
 &gt; 
Bob &gt; 
 &gt; 
I have a 1987 Frers 33 that &gt; sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. &nbsp;I�ve read Frank�s = &gt; response &gt; on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to add, based on my &gt; experience: &gt; 
 &gt; 
The construction of the tr= &gt; ansverse &gt; stringer leaves a void below the stringer that extends to the leading edge &gt; of the keel sump to which the keel is bolted at the point of transition &gt; into the hull. &nbsp;I don�t know for certain if this will be true on &gt; all boats, as I understand some may not have wood in the stringers, but &gt; where it exists, &nbsp;it creates a potential structural weak point. &nbsp;= &gt; If &gt; the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows separation you will get &gt; a leak that will not only contribute to deterioration of the wood stringer, &gt; but provides a path to the bilge: the reason is that you are not seeing &gt; separation between keel and hull, but a crack in the sump which, over time &gt; and load can create a tear in the hull. &nbsp;This is one reason a fix &gt; from the inside is desirable and that you should look carefully at the &gt; leading edge of the keel at the hull. &nbsp;The fix is not as traumatic &gt; as the problem sounds. &nbsp;The other thing to check is the keel bolts &gt; for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there was a &gt; mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial &gt; erosion of several of the keel bolts. &gt; 
 &gt; 
Other than that, the boat = &gt; is &gt; strong as an ox and a delight to sail and race. &gt; 
 &gt; Allan M. Heyward, Jr.</FO= &gt; nt&gt; &gt; COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER &gt; &amp; FEEHAN, P.C. &gt; 804-747-4500 &gt; 
 &gt; 
-----Original Message----- &gt; From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists= &gt; .frers33.com] &gt; On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert &gt; Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM &gt; To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com &gt; Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 &gt; 
 &gt; 
I am currently interested in purchasing a &gt; frers 33. &gt; 
 &gt; 
1) &nbsp; &nbsp; &amp;nb= &gt; sp; &gt; Can anyone update me as to where any s= &gt; pecific &gt; coring issues in hull or the deck area that might be consistent with most &gt; of these boats? &gt; 
2) &nbsp; &nbsp; &amp;nb= &gt; sp; &gt; If I wanted to change out the wheel st= &gt; eering &gt; to a tiller is this reasonable or does the installation look like a morphid= &gt; ite? &gt; 
3) &nbsp; &nbsp; &amp;nb= &gt; sp; &gt; Any questionable electrical to look fo= &gt; r? &gt; 
4) &nbsp; &nbsp; &amp;nb= &gt; sp; &gt; Any concern on the design as it relates &gt; to the keel to hull design or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding.</F= &gt; ont&gt; &gt; 
 &gt; 
 &gt; 
I live in the Chicago area &gt; 
Thanks for any advice or information anyone &gt; can offer on �what to look for� &gt; 
 &gt; 
Bob &gt; 
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; &gt; 
 &gt; =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= &gt; =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= &gt; =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= &gt; =5F=5F &gt; CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: &gt; This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for &gt; the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may &gt; contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from &gt; disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message &gt; is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible &gt; for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby &gt; notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this &gt; communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, &gt; please notify us immediately by e-mail at <A href="3dmailto:legal@web=" &gt; erstephen.com&gt;legal@weberstep= &gt; hen.com</A> &gt; and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. &gt; 
 &gt; --=_alternative 007167698525710A_=-- &gt; &gt; --__--__-- &gt; &gt; Message: 2 &gt; From: "Kurt Hudson" <KURTHUDSON@LC-ANDERSON.COM> &gt; To: <FRERS-LIST@LISTS.FRERS33.COM> &gt; Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 &gt; Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:51:23 -0500 &gt; Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com &gt; &gt; This is a multi-part message in MIME format. &gt; &gt; ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C628D9.AF427420 &gt; Content-Type: text/plain; &gt; charset="us-ascii" &gt; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit &gt; &gt; Eclipse is hull #29 MFG 1987 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; _____ &gt; &gt; From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com &gt; [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Dan Boyd &gt; Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:39 PM &gt; To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com &gt; Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; WildThing is MFG in 1988. &gt; &gt; Dan Boyd &gt; Biogen Idec Inc &gt; Tel: 1.617.679.2274 &gt; Fax: 1.617.679.3599 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; "Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01" <FRANCIS.ALBERT@NAVY.MIL> &gt; Sent by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com &gt; &gt; 02/03/2006 03:14 PM &gt; &gt; &gt; Please respond to &gt; frers-list@lists.frers33.com &gt; &gt; Message Size: 32.4 KB &gt; &gt; &gt; To &gt; &gt; <FRERS-LIST@LISTS.FRERS33.COM> &gt; &gt; &gt; cc &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject &gt; &gt; RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Alright big question is where all these boats made the same and if anyone &gt; knows of a different version. Allen your boat was number 14 what year was &gt; your boat built? Wild thing was number 37 and may have been built in the &gt; same year as mine. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks, &gt; &gt; Frank Albert &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message----- &gt; From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com &gt; [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Albert, Francis X &gt; CIV SEA 01 &gt; Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09 &gt; To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com &gt; Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Bob, &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; My boat may have that new crack problem. I noticed last summer water &gt; getting in to the bilge area. This fall when they hauled the boat there was &gt; a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you would suppose the &gt; keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these discussions someone &gt; mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 to 12 &gt; inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. That lower hull thing &gt; seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right at &gt; that crack. Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts and &gt; then grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using alcohol. &gt; They said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove the bolts and &gt; lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. Their experience with this &gt; process has taught them a couple of things. First most boats had the keels &gt; joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over the entire &gt; top of the keel. Second, 5200 really does not want to let go. They've had &gt; boats in the lift like this for four hours with the only thing holding the &gt; keel up being the 5200. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to hear about it. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks, &gt; &gt; Frank Albert &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message----- &gt; From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com &gt; [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]On Behalf Of Allan Heyward &gt; Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03 &gt; To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com &gt; Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Bob &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the Chesapeake Bay. I've &gt; read Frank's response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to &gt; add, based on my experience: &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a void below the stringer &gt; that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to which the keel is &gt; bolted at the point of transition into the hull. I don't know for certain &gt; if this will be true on all boats, as I understand some may not have wood in &gt; the stringers, but where it exists, it creates a potential structural weak &gt; point. If the leading edge of the keel at the hull shows separation you &gt; will get a leak that will not only contribute to deterioration of the wood &gt; stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: the reason is that you are not &gt; seeing separation between keel and hull, but a crack in the sump which, over &gt; time and load can create a tear in the hull. This is one reason a fix from &gt; the inside is desirable and that you should look carefully at the leading &gt; edge of the keel at the hull. The fix is not as traumatic as the problem &gt; sounds. The other thing to check is the keel bolts for deep crevice &gt; corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there was a mismatch between &gt; stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial erosion of several &gt; of the keel bolts. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a delight to sail and race. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Allan M. Heyward, Jr. &gt; COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER &amp; FEEHAN, P.C. &gt; 804-747-4500 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message----- &gt; From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com &gt; [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of Stephen, Robert &gt; Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM &gt; To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com &gt; Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers 33 &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 1) Can anyone update me as to where any specific coring issues in hull &gt; or the deck area that might be consistent with most of these boats? &gt; &gt; 2) If I wanted to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is this &gt; reasonable or does the installation look like a morphidite? &gt; &gt; 3) Any questionable electrical to look for? &gt; &gt; 4) Any concern on the design as it relates to the keel to hull design &gt; or attachment. Separate from a bad grounding. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I live in the Chicago area &gt; &gt; Thanks for any advice or information anyone can offer on "what to look for" &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Bob &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; ____________________________________________________________________________ &gt; _ &gt; CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: &gt; This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for &gt; the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may &gt; contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from &gt; disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail message &gt; is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible &gt; for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby &gt; notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this &gt; communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, &gt; please notify us immediately by e-mail at <mailto:legal@weberstephen.com> &gt; legal@weberstephen.com &gt; and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. &gt; &gt; &gt; ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C628D9.AF427420 &gt; Content-Type: text/html; &gt; charset="us-ascii" &gt; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable &gt; &gt; &gt; xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = &gt; xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = &gt; xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = &gt; xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; 
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&gt; style=3D'font-size: &gt; 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'&gt;Eclipse is hull #29 MFG = &gt; 1987<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
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&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; &gt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'&gt;From:&gt; size=3D2 &gt; face=3DTahoma&gt; &gt; frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com = &gt; [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] &gt; style=3D'font-weight:bold'&gt;On Behalf Of Dan Boyd &gt; Sent: Friday, February = &gt; 03, 2006 &gt; 3:39 PM &gt; To: = &gt; frers-list@lists.frers33.com &gt; Subject: RE: = &gt; [frers-list]questions &gt; on a purchase of a frers 33<o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; </DIV> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size: &gt; 12.0pt'&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; face=3D"Times New Roman"&gt; &gt; &gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; &gt; font-family:sans-serif'&gt;WildThing is MFG in 1988. &gt; &gt; &gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'&gt;Dan &gt; Boyd &gt; Biogen Idec Inc &gt; Tel: &nbsp;1.617.679.2274 &gt; Fax: &nbsp;1.617.679.3599 &gt; &gt; &gt; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
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&gt; style=3D'font-size: &gt; 7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;font-weight:bold'&gt;"Albert, = &gt; <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 /><st1:place &gt; w:st=3D"on"&gt;<st1:PlaceName w:st='3D"on"'>Francis</st1:PlaceName> = &gt; <st1:PlaceName &gt; w:st=3D"on"&gt;X</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceName ="<BR">&gt; w:st=3D"on"&gt;CIV</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType &gt; w:st=3D"on"&gt;SEA</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> 01" &gt; &lt;francis.albert@navy.mil&gt;&gt; face=3Dsans-serif&gt;&gt; style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'&gt; &gt; &gt; style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'&gt;Sent &gt; by: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com <o:p></o:p> &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family: &gt; sans-serif'&gt;02/03/2006 03:14 PM <o:p></o:p> &gt; 
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&gt; style=3D'text-align:center'&gt;&gt; face=3Dsans-serif&gt;&gt; style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'&gt;Please &gt; respond to &gt; frers-list@lists.frers33.com<o:p></o:p> &gt; </TD> &gt; </TR> &gt; </TBODY></TABLE> &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family: &gt; sans-serif'&gt;Message Size: 32.4 = &gt; KB &gt; <o:p></o:p> &gt; </TD> &gt; 
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&gt; style=3D'font-size: &gt; 7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'&gt;RE: [frers-list]questions on a = &gt; purchase of a &gt; frers 33<o:p></o:p> &gt; </TD> &gt; </TR> &gt; </TBODY></TABLE> &gt; 
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&gt; style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'&gt;<o:p></o:p> &gt; </TD> &gt; </TR> &gt; </TBODY></TABLE> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size: &gt; 12.0pt'&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; style=3D'font-size: &gt; 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'&gt;Alright big question is where = &gt; all these &gt; boats made the same and if anyone knows of a different version. = &gt; &nbsp;Allen &gt; your boat was number 14 what year was your boat built? &nbsp;Wild thing = &gt; was &gt; number 37 and may have been built in the same year as = &gt; mine. <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; &gt; font-family:Arial;color:#993366'&gt;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; &gt; font-family:Arial;color:#993366'&gt;Thanks, <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; &gt; font-family:Arial;color:#993366'&gt;Frank Albert = &gt; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; &gt; font-family:Arial;color:#993366'&gt;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'&gt;-----Original &gt; Message----- &gt; From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com &gt; [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]&gt; style=3D'font-weight:bold'&gt;On &gt; Behalf Of Albert, Francis X CIV SEA 01&gt; style=3D'font-weight: &gt; bold'&gt; &gt; Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:09&gt; style=3D'font-weight: &gt; bold'&gt; &gt; To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com&gt; style=3D'font-weight:bold'&gt; &gt; Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers = &gt; 33 &gt; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'&gt;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;Bob, <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;My boat may have that new crack problem. &nbsp;I = &gt; noticed last &gt; summer water getting in to the bilge area. &nbsp;This fall when they = &gt; hauled the &gt; boat there was a crack right at the top of the keel right at where you = &gt; would &gt; suppose the keel to hull joint would be (however, in one of these = &gt; discussions &gt; someone mentioned the actual hull is lower, down the keel like about 10 = &gt; to 12 &gt; inches) and water from the bilge was seeping out. &nbsp;That lower hull = &gt; thing &gt; seems pretty strange and my yard says the keel and hull joint are right = &gt; at that &gt; crack. &nbsp;Their suggestion for this year is to snug up the keel bolts = &gt; and &gt; then grind out the crack and fill it with 5200, fairing it using = &gt; alcohol. &gt; &nbsp; They said if that doesn't work then next year they will remove = &gt; the bolts &gt; and lift the boat off the keel by about 3 inches. &nbsp;Their experience = &gt; with &gt; this process has taught them a couple of things. &nbsp;First most boats = &gt; had the &gt; keels joined to the hull just this way with a ton of 5200 spread over = &gt; the &gt; entire top of the keel. &nbsp;Second, 5200 really does not want to let = &gt; go. &gt; &nbsp;They've had boats in the lift like this for four hours with the = &gt; only &gt; thing holding the keel up being the 5200. <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;If anyone has had a similar experience I'd like to = &gt; hear about &gt; it. <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;Thanks, <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;Frank Albert <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'&gt;-----Original &gt; Message----- &gt; From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com &gt; [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com]&gt; style=3D'font-weight:bold'&gt;On &gt; Behalf Of Allan Heyward&gt; style=3D'font-weight:bold'&gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 12:03&gt; style=3D'font-weight: &gt; bold'&gt; &gt; To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com&gt; style=3D'font-weight:bold'&gt; &gt; Subject: RE: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers = &gt; 33 &gt; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'&gt;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;Bob <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;I have a 1987 Frers 33 that sails and races on the = &gt; <st1:place &gt; w:st=3D"on"&gt;Chesapeake Bay</st1:place>. &nbsp;I�ve read = &gt; Frank�s &gt; response on your question 4 and only have a couple of things to add, = &gt; based on &gt; my experience: <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;The construction of the transverse stringer leaves a = &gt; void &gt; below the stringer that extends to the leading edge of the keel sump to = &gt; which &gt; the keel is bolted at the point of transition into the hull. &nbsp;I &gt; don�t know for certain if this will be true on all boats, as I = &gt; understand &gt; some may not have wood in the stringers, but where it exists, &nbsp;it = &gt; creates &gt; a potential structural weak point. &nbsp;If the leading edge of the keel = &gt; at the &gt; hull shows separation you will get a leak that will not only contribute = &gt; to &gt; deterioration of the wood stringer, but provides a path to the bilge: = &gt; the &gt; reason is that you are not seeing separation between keel and hull, but = &gt; a crack &gt; in the sump which, over time and load can create a tear in the hull. = &gt; &nbsp;This &gt; is one reason a fix from the inside is desirable and that you should = &gt; look &gt; carefully at the leading edge of the keel at the hull. &nbsp;The fix is = &gt; not as &gt; traumatic as the problem sounds. &nbsp;The other thing to check is the = &gt; keel &gt; bolts for deep crevice corrosion, as on at least one boat (mine) there = &gt; was a &gt; mismatch between stainless in the bolts and nuts that caused substantial &gt; erosion of several of the keel bolts. <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;Other than that, the boat is strong as an ox and a = &gt; delight to &gt; sail and race. <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; style=3D'font-family:Arial;color:navy'&gt;Allan M. &gt; Heyward, Jr. &gt; &gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;COOK, HEYWARD, LEE, HOPPER &amp; FEEHAN, = &gt; P.C. &gt; &gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;804-747-4500 <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:navy'&gt;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'&gt;-----Original &gt; Message----- &gt; From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com &gt; [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] &gt; style=3D'font-weight:bold'&gt;On &gt; Behalf Of Stephen, Robert&gt; style=3D'font-weight:bold'&gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:02 AM&gt; style=3D'font-weight: &gt; bold'&gt; &gt; To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com&gt; style=3D'font-weight:bold'&gt; &gt; Subject: [frers-list]questions on a purchase of a frers = &gt; 33 &gt; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'&gt;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&gt;I &gt; am currently interested in purchasing a frers 33. = &gt; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&gt;1)&gt; size=3D1&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = &gt; &gt; size=3D2 face=3DArial&gt;&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&gt;Can anyone &gt; update me as to where any specific coring issues in hull or the deck = &gt; area that &gt; might be consistent with most of these boats? = &gt; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&gt;2)&gt; size=3D1&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = &gt; &gt; size=3D2 face=3DArial&gt;&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&gt;If I wanted &gt; to change out the wheel steering to a tiller is this reasonable or does = &gt; the &gt; installation look like a morphidite? <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&gt;3)&gt; size=3D1&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = &gt; &gt; size=3D2 face=3DArial&gt;&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&gt;Any &gt; questionable electrical to look for? <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&gt;4)&gt; size=3D1&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; = &gt; &gt; size=3D2 face=3DArial&gt;&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&gt;Any concern &gt; on the design as it relates to the keel to hull design or attachment. = &gt; Separate &gt; from a bad grounding. <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&gt;I &gt; live in the <st1:City w:st='3D"on"'><st1:place ="<BR">&gt; w:st=3D"on"&gt;Chicago</st1:place></st1:City> &gt; area <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&gt;Thanks &gt; for any advice or information anyone can offer on �what to look &gt; for� <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&gt;Bob &gt; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; 
&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: &gt; Arial;color:blue'&gt; &gt; _________________________________________________________________________= &gt; ____ &gt; CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: &gt; This Weber-Stephen Products Company e-mail is intended only for &gt; the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may &gt; contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from &gt; disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail = &gt; message &gt; is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible &gt; for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are = &gt; hereby &gt; notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this &gt; communication is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in = &gt; error, &gt; please notify us immediately by e-mail at <A &gt; href=3D"mailto:legal@weberstephen.com"&gt;&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'&gt;legal@weberstephen.com</SPAN= &gt; &gt;</A>&gt; size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial&gt;&gt; style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; &gt; color:blue'&gt; &gt; and also indicate the sender's name. Thank you. = &gt; <o:p></o:p> &gt; &gt; </DIV> &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01C628D9.AF427420-- &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; --__--__-- &gt; &gt; _______________________________________________ &gt; frers-list mailing list &gt; frers-list@lists.frers33.com &gt; http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list &gt; &gt; &gt; End of frers-list Digest </BLOCKQUOTE></o:=></o:p></o:SmartTagType></o:SmartTagType></o:SmartTagType></o:SmartTagType></mailto:legal@weberstephen.com></body></html>

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