[frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes would you make ?

Fri, 19 Aug 2011 13:06:51 -0400

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Hi Courtney,
=20
I have read the few other replies and thought I would put in my two =
cents.=20
=20
As Joyce says, the Frers 33 is a well designed boat that is both =
beautiful and seaworthy. I would approach any structural modifications =
with caution, especially if they involve the sail plan or under water =
appendages.=20
=20
If you shorten the keel to give access to more harbors, consider a bulb =
or some means of maintaining the righting moment. Shortening the rig =
would not likely be much of an advantage (unless you need to clear a =
fixed bridge) because it limits the sail area when you need/want it. You =
can always reef and use smaller headsails when over powered, so I would =
recommend a mainsail with multiple reef points.=20
=20
Apparently not all boats have a deck tie-down (turnbuckle joining the =
front of the mast to the deck inside the cabin) to keep the deck from =
flexing in breeze and waves. I would install that if it's not there.
=20
The advantage of the double-spreader rig is that the shrouds are further =
inboard at the deck, allowing for a narrower sheeting angle. Changing =
this arrangement will compromise your upwind performance, so I wouldn't =
modify it.
=20
If I were going to exclusively cruise the boat I would focus on =
optimizing for navigation, auto helm, refrigeration, add water holding =
capacity and installing a newer stove/oven. I would break down and add a =
sleek dodger and come up with a shade to be used at anchor that could be =
removed when underway. I think the boom is too low to do a bimini =
properly.
=20
That's it for me. Anyone else have ideas or comments?
=20
BTW, you canbeat a well sailed Frers 36, especially in light air, but =
it's not easy!
=20
Regards,
=20
Dave Nauber
Wolverine
=20

From:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of =
joberdorf@optonline.net
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 5:34 PM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: Re: [frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes =
would you make ?
=20
Courtney:
=20
I will let others speak to the class rules specifically. But suffice it =
to say that  to significantly alter the boat would make the frers a =
different boat. Barry Carroll got a lot right when he designed it. It =
was Boat of the Year at that time. By far, the sweetest sailing Frers.  =
This has nothing to do with being a purist-- it has to do with the =
design of the boat.=20
However, here is what I know:
1. Running backs have been modified on some boats (placement of on deck =
varies, mostly between tiller and wheel boats)
2. Keel has been slightly modified on some boats.  Wolverine has a =
slightly shorter keel that's "thicker" (hence better downwind). Others, =
have the standard depth keel.  Boats such as Impetuous, and Checkmate =
(which followed Impetuous' lead) faired the trailing edge and therefore =
extended it to a fine edge. So you'll see slight variations. But these =
are all allowed within class rules.
3. Never heard of anyone shortening the mast. I heard of a Frers 41 =
owner LENGthening the boom (whichis a real pain in the butt in light air =
vis a vis the backstay) and another lengthening the mast and keeping the =
boom. But these were entirely different boats.
4. Mast Steps have been strengthened in nearly every boat, over time. =
Mine was done by prior owner at New England Boatworks.
5. Rudder bearings have been changed in nearly every boat.  For me, =
twice so far in 15 yrs.
6. Most rod rigging is replaced as it wears, but not reconfigured.  In =
terms of other rigging, I've seen different mainsheet arrangements in =
terms of block purchase vs. fine tune, and most boats have installed the =
Harken traveller system.
7. Spinnaker poles are now carbon fiber, etc, but not changed otherwise.
=20
 I presume you bought the Frers because you actually liked the boat?
=20
Joyce (Checkmate owner)

----- Original Message -----
From: Courtney Thomas=20
Date: Monday, August 15, 2011 4:15 pm
Subject: [frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes would =
you make ?
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com

> Ahoy !
>=20
> I am about to undertake a complete refit of a Frers33 and would=20
> appreciate all input regarding
> changes you would make vis-a-vis the original assemblage, if you=20
> had the=20
> same opportunity.
>=20
> Any suggestions regarding materials and technique regarding=20
> typical=20
> maintenance and restorative
> procedures are welcome as well, of course.
>=20
> In particular... keel reattachment, hull deck joint, deck=20
> reinforcement,=20
> mast support, mast reconfiguration,
> and rigging, both standing and running, and rudder=20
> reinstallation... are=20
> of particular concern,
> as I'd hate like hell to bear this expense and later come to=20
> grief over=20
> a choice that could easily now be made
> that would have made a much more salutary difference in time to come.
>=20
> An additional note is that the standing rigging is what I assume=20
> was the=20
> original 'rod' rigging.
>=20
> My primary interest is not racing, rather cruising.
>=20
> Has anyone shortened or otherwise altered the original mast ?
>=20
> Has anyone gone outboard with the chainplates ?
>=20
> Please include intended consequences of any suggested alterations.
>=20
> Hoping to not cause a firestorm from Frers purists :-)
>=20
> In any case, no alterations have been yet made,...
>=20
> Appreciatively,
>=20
> Courtney Thomas
>=20
> --=20
> Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power,
> have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing
> government, and form a new one that suits them better,
> This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right,
> which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.
> Abraham Lincoln
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> frers-list mailing list
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
> 
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi =
Courtney,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

I have read the few other replies =
and
thought I would put in my two cents. <o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

As Joyce says, the Frers 33 is a =
well
designed boat that is both beautiful and seaworthy. I would approach any
structural modifications with caution, especially if they involve the =
sail plan
or under water appendages. <o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

If you shorten the keel to give =
access to
more harbors, consider a bulb or some means of maintaining the righting =
moment.
Shortening the rig would not likely be much of an advantage (unless you =
need to
clear a fixed bridge) because it limits the sail area when you need/want =
it.
You can always reef and use smaller headsails when over powered, so I =
would
recommend a mainsail with multiple reef points. =
<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

Apparently not all boats have a =
deck
tie-down (turnbuckle joining the front of the mast to the deck inside =
the cabin)
to keep the deck from flexing in breeze and waves. I would install that =
if it&#8217;s
not there.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

The advantage of the =
double-spreader rig
is that the shrouds are further inboard at the deck, allowing for a =
narrower
sheeting angle. Changing this arrangement will compromise your upwind
performance, so I wouldn&#8217;t modify it.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

If I were going to exclusively =
cruise the
boat I would focus on optimizing for navigation, auto helm, =
refrigeration, add
water holding capacity and installing a newer stove/oven. I would break =
down
and add a sleek dodger and come up with a shade to be used at anchor =
that could
be removed when underway. I think the boom is too low to do a bimini =
properly.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

That&#8217;s it for me. Anyone else =
have
ideas or comments?<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>BTW, you <i><span =
style=3D'font-style:italic'>can</span></i>
beat a well sailed Frers 36, especially in light air, but it&#8217;s not =
easy!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dave =
Nauber<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Wolverine<o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b><st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">joberdorf@optonline.net</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, August =
17, 2011
5:34 P<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">M</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: =
[frers-list]complete
refit soon underway, what changes would you make =
?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Courtney:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

I will let others speak to the class rules specifically. But =
suffice it
to say that&nbsp; to significantly alter the boat would make the frers a
different boat. Barry Carroll got a lot right when he designed it. It =
was Boat
of the Year at that time. By far, the sweetest sailing Frers.&nbsp; This =
has
nothing to do with being a purist-- it has to do with the design of the =
boat. <o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>However, here is what I know:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

1. Running backs have been modified on some boats (placement of =
on deck
varies, mostly between tiller and wheel =
boats)<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

2. Keel has been slightly modified on some boats.&nbsp; =
Wolverine has a
slightly shorter keel that's &quot;thicker&quot; (hence better =
downwind).
Others, have the standard depth keel.&nbsp; Boats such as Impetuous, and
Checkmate (which followed Impetuous' lead) faired the trailing edge and
therefore extended it to a fine edge. So you'll see slight variations. =
But
these are all allowed within class rules.<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

3. Never heard of anyone shortening the mast.&nbsp;I heard of a =
Frers
41 owner LENGthening the boom (whichis a real pain in the butt in light =
air vis
a vis the backstay)&nbsp;and another lengthening the mast and keeping =
the boom.
But these were entirely different boats.<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

4. <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">M</st1:PersonName>ast Steps have =
been
strengthened in nearly every boat, over time. <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">M</st1:PersonName>ine
was done by prior owner at New England =
Boatworks.<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

5. Rudder bearings have been changed in nearly every boat.&nbsp; =
For
me, twice so far in 15 yrs.<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

6. <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">M</st1:PersonName>ost rod rigging =
is
replaced as it wears, but not reconfigured.&nbsp; In terms of other =
rigging,
I've seen different mainsheet arrangements in terms of block purchase =
vs. fine
tune, and most boats have installed the Harken traveller =
system.<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

7. Spinnaker poles are now carbon fiber, etc, but not changed
otherwise.<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;I presume you bought the Frers because you actually liked =
the
boat?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Joyce (Checkmate owner)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
----- Original <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">M</st1:PersonName>essage =
-----<br>
From: Courtney Thomas <br>
<COURTNEYCTHOMAS@BELLSOUTH.NET>Date: <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">M</st1:PersonName>onday,
August 15, 2011 4:15 pm<br>
Subject: [frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes would =
you make
?<br>
To: <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</st1:PersonName><br>
<br>
&gt; Ahoy !<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I am about to undertake a complete refit of a Frers33 and would =
<br>
&gt; appreciate all input regarding<br>
&gt; changes you would make vis-a-vis the original assemblage, if you =
<br>
&gt; had the <br>
&gt; same opportunity.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Any suggestions regarding materials and technique regarding <br>
&gt; typical <br>
&gt; maintenance and restorative<br>
&gt; procedures are welcome as well, of course.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; In particular... keel reattachment, hull deck joint, deck <br>
&gt; reinforcement, <br>
&gt; mast support, mast reconfiguration,<br>
&gt; and rigging, both standing and running, and rudder <br>
&gt; reinstallation... are <br>
&gt; of particular concern,<br>
&gt; as I'd hate like hell to bear this expense and later come to <br>
&gt; grief over <br>
&gt; a choice that could easily now be made<br>
&gt; that would have made a much more salutary difference in time to =
come.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; An additional note is that the standing rigging is what I assume =
<br>
&gt; was the <br>
&gt; original 'rod' rigging.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">M</st1:PersonName>y primary interest is =
not
racing, rather cruising.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Has anyone shortened or otherwise altered the original mast ?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Has anyone gone outboard with the chainplates ?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Please include intended consequences of any suggested =
alterations.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Hoping to not cause a firestorm from Frers purists :-)<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; In any case, no alterations have been yet made,...<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Appreciatively,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Courtney Thomas<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; -- <br>
&gt; Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power,<br>
&gt; have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing<br>
&gt; government, and form a new one that suits them better,<br>
&gt; This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right,<br>
&gt; which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.<br>
&gt; Abraham Lincoln<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; frers-list mailing list<br>
&gt; <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</st1:PersonName><br>
&gt; http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list<br>
&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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