[frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes would
you make ?
Courtney Thomas
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Fri, 19 Aug 2011 15:25:50 -0400
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Dave,
Thanks for the considered reply.
I fully understand the motives regarding caveats applicable to underbody
and rig alteration and will heed.
My boat was described by the seller as a wing keel, on which I've found
no specifics. I'd like to know the draft
with this keel and what others think of it vis-a-vis the standard fin.
I'll plan on a multiply reefable main. Thanks for the suggestion.
What do you think of continuing the rod rigging ? To what other types of
standing rigging have others chosen
and with what results ?
Do you know where I can view a picture [or find the specs] of a properly
done "deck tie down" ?
Advantage of inboard shrouds is gratefully noted.
I had planned on adding a bimini/dodger. Has no one satisfactorily added
a bimini ?
Has no one done anything to the stock rudder installation to render it
less vulnerable ?
Gratefully,
Courtney
On 8/19/2011 1:06 PM, Dave Nauber wrote:
>
> Hi Courtney,
>
> I have read the few other replies and thought I would put in my two
> cents.
>
> As Joyce says, the Frers 33 is a well designed boat that is both
> beautiful and seaworthy. I would approach any structural modifications
> with caution, especially if they involve the sail plan or under water
> appendages.
>
> If you shorten the keel to give access to more harbors, consider a
> bulb or some means of maintaining the righting moment. Shortening the
> rig would not likely be much of an advantage (unless you need to clear
> a fixed bridge) because it limits the sail area when you need/want it.
> You can always reef and use smaller headsails when over powered, so I
> would recommend a mainsail with multiple reef points.
>
> Apparently not all boats have a deck tie-down (turnbuckle joining the
> front of the mast to the deck inside the cabin) to keep the deck from
> flexing in breeze and waves. I would install that if it's not there.
>
> The advantage of the double-spreader rig is that the shrouds are
> further inboard at the deck, allowing for a narrower sheeting angle.
> Changing this arrangement will compromise your upwind performance, so
> I wouldn't modify it.
>
> If I were going to exclusively cruise the boat I would focus on
> optimizing for navigation, auto helm, refrigeration, add water holding
> capacity and installing a newer stove/oven. I would break down and add
> a sleek dodger and come up with a shade to be used at anchor that
> could be removed when underway. I think the boom is too low to do a
> bimini properly.
>
> That's it for me. Anyone else have ideas or comments?
>
> BTW, you /can/ beat a well sailed Frers 36, especially in light air,
> but it's not easy!
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave Nauber
>
> Wolverine
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] *On Behalf Of
> *joberdorf@optonline.net
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 17, 2011 5:34 PM
> *To:* frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> *Subject:* Re: [frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes
> would you make ?
>
> Courtney:
>
> I will let others speak to the class rules specifically. But suffice
> it to say that to significantly alter the boat would make the frers a
> different boat. Barry Carroll got a lot right when he designed it. It
> was Boat of the Year at that time. By far, the sweetest sailing
> Frers. This has nothing to do with being a purist-- it has to do with
> the design of the boat.
>
> However, here is what I know:
>
> 1. Running backs have been modified on some boats (placement of on
> deck varies, mostly between tiller and wheel boats)
>
> 2. Keel has been slightly modified on some boats. Wolverine has a
> slightly shorter keel that's "thicker" (hence better downwind).
> Others, have the standard depth keel. Boats such as Impetuous, and
> Checkmate (which followed Impetuous' lead) faired the trailing edge
> and therefore extended it to a fine edge. So you'll see slight
> variations. But these are all allowed within class rules.
>
> 3. Never heard of anyone shortening the mast. I heard of a Frers 41
> owner LENGthening the boom (whichis a real pain in the butt in light
> air vis a vis the backstay) and another lengthening the mast and
> keeping the boom. But these were entirely different boats.
>
> 4. Mast Steps have been strengthened in nearly every boat, over time.
> Mine was done by prior owner at New England Boatworks.
>
> 5. Rudder bearings have been changed in nearly every boat. For me,
> twice so far in 15 yrs.
>
> 6. Most rod rigging is replaced as it wears, but not reconfigured. In
> terms of other rigging, I've seen different mainsheet arrangements in
> terms of block purchase vs. fine tune, and most boats have installed
> the Harken traveller system.
>
> 7. Spinnaker poles are now carbon fiber, etc, but not changed otherwise.
>
> I presume you bought the Frers because you actually liked the boat?
>
> Joyce (Checkmate owner)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Courtney Thomas
> Date: Monday, August 15, 2011 4:15 pm
> Subject: [frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes would
> you make ?
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>
> > Ahoy !
> >
> > I am about to undertake a complete refit of a Frers33 and would
> > appreciate all input regarding
> > changes you would make vis-a-vis the original assemblage, if you
> > had the
> > same opportunity.
> >
> > Any suggestions regarding materials and technique regarding
> > typical
> > maintenance and restorative
> > procedures are welcome as well, of course.
> >
> > In particular... keel reattachment, hull deck joint, deck
> > reinforcement,
> > mast support, mast reconfiguration,
> > and rigging, both standing and running, and rudder
> > reinstallation... are
> > of particular concern,
> > as I'd hate like hell to bear this expense and later come to
> > grief over
> > a choice that could easily now be made
> > that would have made a much more salutary difference in time to come.
> >
> > An additional note is that the standing rigging is what I assume
> > was the
> > original 'rod' rigging.
> >
> > My primary interest is not racing, rather cruising.
> >
> > Has anyone shortened or otherwise altered the original mast ?
> >
> > Has anyone gone outboard with the chainplates ?
> >
> > Please include intended consequences of any suggested alterations.
> >
> > Hoping to not cause a firestorm from Frers purists :-)
> >
> > In any case, no alterations have been yet made,...
> >
> > Appreciatively,
> >
> > Courtney Thomas
> >
> > --
> > Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power,
> > have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing
> > government, and form a new one that suits them better,
> > This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right,
> > which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.
> > Abraham Lincoln
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > frers-list mailing list
> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
> >
>
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Dave,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the considered reply.<br>
<br>
I fully understand the motives regarding caveats applicable to
underbody and rig alteration and will heed.<br>
<br>
My boat was described by the seller as a wing keel, on which I've
found no specifics. I'd like to know the draft<br>
with this keel and what others think of it vis-a-vis the standard
fin.<br>
<br>
I'll plan on a multiply reefable main. Thanks for the suggestion.<br>
<br>
What do you think of continuing the rod rigging ? To what other
types of standing rigging have others chosen<br>
and with what results ?<br>
<br>
Do you know where I can view a picture [or find the specs] of a
properly done "deck tie down" ?<br>
<br>
Advantage of inboard shrouds is gratefully noted.<br>
<br>
I had planned on adding a bimini/dodger. Has no one satisfactorily
added a bimini ?<br>
<br>
Has no one done anything to the stock rudder installation to render
it less vulnerable ?<br>
<br>
Gratefully,<br>
<br>
Courtney<br>
<br>
On 8/19/2011 1:06 PM, Dave Nauber wrote:
<blockquote
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Hi Courtney,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I have read the few
other replies and
thought I would put in my two cents. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">As Joyce says, the
Frers 33 is a well
designed boat that is both beautiful and seaworthy. I
would approach any
structural modifications with caution, especially if
they involve the sail plan
or under water appendages. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">If you shorten the
keel to give access to
more harbors, consider a bulb or some means of
maintaining the righting moment.
Shortening the rig would not likely be much of an
advantage (unless you need to
clear a fixed bridge) because it limits the sail area
when you need/want it.
You can always reef and use smaller headsails when over
powered, so I would
recommend a mainsail with multiple reef points. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Apparently not all
boats have a deck
tie-down (turnbuckle joining the front of the mast to
the deck inside the cabin)
to keep the deck from flexing in breeze and waves. I
would install that if it’s
not there.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">The advantage of
the double-spreader rig
is that the shrouds are further inboard at the deck,
allowing for a narrower
sheeting angle. Changing this arrangement will
compromise your upwind
performance, so I wouldn’t modify it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">If I were going to
exclusively cruise the
boat I would focus on optimizing for navigation, auto
helm, refrigeration, add
water holding capacity and installing a newer
stove/oven. I would break down
and add a sleek dodger and come up with a shade to be
used at anchor that could
be removed when underway. I think the boom is too low to
do a bimini properly.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">That’s it for me.
Anyone else have
ideas or comments?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">BTW, you <i><span
style="font-style:italic">can</span></i>
beat a well sailed Frers 36, especially in light air,
but it’s not easy!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Dave Nauber<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Wolverine<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">
<hr tabindex="-1" align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com">frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com">mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com</a>] <b><span
style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b><st1:personname
w:st="on"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:joberdorf@optonline.net">joberdorf@optonline.net</a></st1:personname><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Wednesday, August 17, 2011
5:34 P<st1:personname w:st="on">M</st1:personname><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <st1:personname
w:st="on"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></st1:personname><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [frers-list]complete
refit soon underway, what changes would you make ?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt">Courtney:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt">I will let others speak to the class rules
specifically. But suffice it
to say that to significantly alter the boat would
make the frers a
different boat. Barry Carroll got a lot right when he
designed it. It was Boat
of the Year at that time. By far, the sweetest sailing
Frers. This has
nothing to do with being a purist-- it has to do with
the design of the boat. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt">However, here is what I know:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt">1. Running backs have been modified on some
boats (placement of on deck
varies, mostly between tiller and wheel boats)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt">2. Keel has been slightly modified on some
boats. Wolverine has a
slightly shorter keel that's "thicker" (hence better
downwind).
Others, have the standard depth keel. Boats such as
Impetuous, and
Checkmate (which followed Impetuous' lead) faired the
trailing edge and
therefore extended it to a fine edge. So you'll see
slight variations. But
these are all allowed within class rules.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt">3. Never heard of anyone shortening the
mast. I heard of a Frers
41 owner LENGthening the boom (whichis a real pain in
the butt in light air vis
a vis the backstay) and another lengthening the mast
and keeping the boom.
But these were entirely different boats.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt">4. <st1:personname w:st="on">M</st1:personname>ast
Steps have been
strengthened in nearly every boat, over time. <st1:personname
w:st="on">M</st1:personname>ine
was done by prior owner at New England Boatworks.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt">5. Rudder bearings have been changed in nearly
every boat. For
me, twice so far in 15 yrs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt">6. <st1:personname w:st="on">M</st1:personname>ost
rod rigging is
replaced as it wears, but not reconfigured. In terms
of other rigging,
I've seen different mainsheet arrangements in terms of
block purchase vs. fine
tune, and most boats have installed the Harken
traveller system.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt">7. Spinnaker poles are now carbon fiber, etc,
but not changed
otherwise.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt"> I presume you bought the Frers because you
actually liked the
boat?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt">Joyce (Checkmate owner)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size:
12.0pt"><br>
----- Original <st1:personname w:st="on">M</st1:personname>essage
-----<br>
From: Courtney Thomas <br>
<courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net>Date: <st1:personname
w:st="on">M</st1:personname>onday,
August 15, 2011 4:15 pm<br>
Subject: [frers-list]complete refit soon underway,
what changes would you make
?<br>
To: <st1:personname w:st="on"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></st1:personname><br>
<br>
> Ahoy !<br>
> <br>
> I am about to undertake a complete refit of a
Frers33 and would <br>
> appreciate all input regarding<br>
> changes you would make vis-a-vis the original
assemblage, if you <br>
> had the <br>
> same opportunity.<br>
> <br>
> Any suggestions regarding materials and
technique regarding <br>
> typical <br>
> maintenance and restorative<br>
> procedures are welcome as well, of course.<br>
> <br>
> In particular... keel reattachment, hull deck
joint, deck <br>
> reinforcement, <br>
> mast support, mast reconfiguration,<br>
> and rigging, both standing and running, and
rudder <br>
> reinstallation... are <br>
> of particular concern,<br>
> as I'd hate like hell to bear this expense and
later come to <br>
> grief over <br>
> a choice that could easily now be made<br>
> that would have made a much more salutary
difference in time to come.<br>
> <br>
> An additional note is that the standing rigging
is what I assume <br>
> was the <br>
> original 'rod' rigging.<br>
> <br>
> <st1:personname w:st="on">M</st1:personname>y
primary interest is not
racing, rather cruising.<br>
> <br>
> Has anyone shortened or otherwise altered the
original mast ?<br>
> <br>
> Has anyone gone outboard with the chainplates ?<br>
> <br>
> Please include intended consequences of any
suggested alterations.<br>
> <br>
> Hoping to not cause a firestorm from Frers
purists :-)<br>
> <br>
> In any case, no alterations have been yet
made,...<br>
> <br>
> Appreciatively,<br>
> <br>
> Courtney Thomas<br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> Any people anywhere, being inclined and having
the power,<br>
> have the right to rise up, and shake off the
existing<br>
> government, and form a new one that suits them
better,<br>
> This is a most valuable - a most sacred right -
a right,<br>
> which we hope and believe, is to liberate the
world.<br>
> Abraham Lincoln<br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> frers-list mailing list<br>
> <st1:personname w:st="on"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></st1:personname><br>
>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list">http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list</a><br>
> <o:p></o:p></courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net></span></font></p>
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