[frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes would you make ?

Courtney Thomas frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Fri, 19 Aug 2011 22:07:32 -0400


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Art,

Since my boat is a wing keel, I am perhaps justified in my rudder 
concerns, in that the Caribbean is where I hope to initially head out. I 
wonder if Frers and Carroll modified the
stock rudder for the wing keel design ? Thanks for the rudder reduction 
concept. Next time you get a convenient opportunity, if you could let me 
know the area of a standard rudder, I'd be grateful.
A pointer to a picture and dimensions would be terrific, as I'm also 
preparing to reinstall the rudder but don't know if it's been altered 
and therefore suspect.

Yes, hull #54. Any information about it would be helpful, especially 
unfavorable  :-)

I have a heavy cruiser but wanted a fast coastal boat for island hopping 
in the Caribbean.

Thanks for the transom drain(s) suggestion. I was thinking of 'goin' 
tiller' but it's got the destroyer wheel and from what you 
say....rightly so  :-)

Appreciatively,

Courtney



On 8/19/2011 9:22 PM, Arthur Kelley wrote:
> If I get your point about the rudder, it is a free standing spade 
> rudder which is fairly well protected by the deep keel. Rudders are 
> vulnerable when they extend below the depth of the keel and are 
> exposed to the odd passing rock. I've seen this on some Hunter or 
> Catalina wing keel boats. I hope between Frers and Carroll Marine they 
> avoided this situation. The solution would be to consider shortening 
> the depth and increasing the fore-aft length of the rudder maintaining 
> the same area.
>
> Did you buy hull #54 ex-Frers-a-Jack from West Palm Beach, Florida?
>
> To echo the sentiments of many here, if you want a round the world 
> cruiser, perhaps you would best consider cleaning this boat up and 
> selling it (most selling between $40K and $55K) and buying a heavier 
> cruiser.  I you want a fast coastal cruiser, you've hit the mark and 
> should just clean up the rough edges.
>
> My only real gripes are minor, like draining the cockpit via through 
> hulls below the water line makes the boat look nicer, but I would have 
> preferred above the waterline, preferably out the transom for safety. 
> Also in my humble opinion the rudder is not well designed/balanced for 
> use with a tiller so I converted back to a wheel (Edson CDi) and like 
> the results a lot. No handling issues.
>
> Good luck,
> Art
>
> On Aug 19, 2011, at 3:25 PM, Courtney Thomas 
> <courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net <mailto:courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net>> 
> wrote:
>
>> Dave,
>>
>> Thanks for the considered reply.
>>
>> I fully understand the motives regarding caveats applicable to 
>> underbody and rig alteration and will heed.
>>
>> My boat was described by the seller as a wing keel, on which I've 
>> found no specifics. I'd like to know the draft
>> with this keel and what others think of it vis-a-vis the standard fin.
>>
>> I'll plan on a multiply reefable main. Thanks for the suggestion.
>>
>> What do you think of continuing the rod rigging ? To what other types 
>> of standing rigging have others chosen
>> and with what results ?
>>
>> Do you know where I can view a picture [or find the specs] of a 
>> properly done "deck tie down"  ?
>>
>> Advantage of inboard shrouds is gratefully noted.
>>
>> I had planned on adding a bimini/dodger. Has no one satisfactorily 
>> added a bimini ?
>>
>> Has no one done anything to the stock rudder installation to render 
>> it less vulnerable ?
>>
>> Gratefully,
>>
>> Courtney
>>
>> On 8/19/2011 1:06 PM, Dave Nauber wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Courtney,
>>>
>>> I have read the few other replies and thought I would put in my two 
>>> cents.
>>>
>>> As Joyce says, the Frers 33 is a well designed boat that is both 
>>> beautiful and seaworthy. I would approach any structural 
>>> modifications with caution, especially if they involve the sail plan 
>>> or under water appendages.
>>>
>>> If you shorten the keel to give access to more harbors, consider a 
>>> bulb or some means of maintaining the righting moment. Shortening 
>>> the rig would not likely be much of an advantage (unless you need to 
>>> clear a fixed bridge) because it limits the sail area when you 
>>> need/want it. You can always reef and use smaller headsails when 
>>> over powered, so I would recommend a mainsail with multiple reef 
>>> points.
>>>
>>> Apparently not all boats have a deck tie-down (turnbuckle joining 
>>> the front of the mast to the deck inside the cabin) to keep the deck 
>>> from flexing in breeze and waves. I would install that if it’s not 
>>> there.
>>>
>>> The advantage of the double-spreader rig is that the shrouds are 
>>> further inboard at the deck, allowing for a narrower sheeting angle. 
>>> Changing this arrangement will compromise your upwind performance, 
>>> so I wouldn’t modify it.
>>>
>>> If I were going to exclusively cruise the boat I would focus on 
>>> optimizing for navigation, auto helm, refrigeration, add water 
>>> holding capacity and installing a newer stove/oven. I would break 
>>> down and add a sleek dodger and come up with a shade to be used at 
>>> anchor that could be removed when underway. I think the boom is too 
>>> low to do a bimini properly.
>>>
>>> That’s it for me. Anyone else have ideas or comments?
>>>
>>> BTW, you /can/ beat a well sailed Frers 36, especially in light air, 
>>> but it’s not easy!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Dave Nauber
>>>
>>> Wolverine
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:*frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com 
>>> <mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com> 
>>> [mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] *On Behalf Of 
>>> *joberdorf@optonline.net <mailto:joberdorf@optonline.net>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 17, 2011 5:34 PM
>>> *To:* frers-list@lists.frers33.com <mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what 
>>> changes would you make ?
>>>
>>> Courtney:
>>>
>>> I will let others speak to the class rules specifically. But suffice 
>>> it to say that  to significantly alter the boat would make the frers 
>>> a different boat. Barry Carroll got a lot right when he designed it. 
>>> It was Boat of the Year at that time. By far, the sweetest sailing 
>>> Frers.  This has nothing to do with being a purist-- it has to do 
>>> with the design of the boat.
>>>
>>> However, here is what I know:
>>>
>>> 1. Running backs have been modified on some boats (placement of on 
>>> deck varies, mostly between tiller and wheel boats)
>>>
>>> 2. Keel has been slightly modified on some boats.  Wolverine has a 
>>> slightly shorter keel that's "thicker" (hence better downwind). 
>>> Others, have the standard depth keel.  Boats such as Impetuous, and 
>>> Checkmate (which followed Impetuous' lead) faired the trailing edge 
>>> and therefore extended it to a fine edge. So you'll see slight 
>>> variations. But these are all allowed within class rules.
>>>
>>> 3. Never heard of anyone shortening the mast. I heard of a Frers 41 
>>> owner LENGthening the boom (whichis a real pain in the butt in light 
>>> air vis a vis the backstay) and another lengthening the mast and 
>>> keeping the boom. But these were entirely different boats.
>>>
>>> 4. Mast Steps have been strengthened in nearly every boat, over 
>>> time. Mine was done by prior owner at New England Boatworks.
>>>
>>> 5. Rudder bearings have been changed in nearly every boat.  For me, 
>>> twice so far in 15 yrs.
>>>
>>> 6. Most rod rigging is replaced as it wears, but not reconfigured.  
>>> In terms of other rigging, I've seen different mainsheet 
>>> arrangements in terms of block purchase vs. fine tune, and most 
>>> boats have installed the Harken traveller system.
>>>
>>> 7. Spinnaker poles are now carbon fiber, etc, but not changed otherwise.
>>>
>>>  I presume you bought the Frers because you actually liked the boat?
>>>
>>> Joyce (Checkmate owner)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Courtney Thomas
>>> Date: Monday, August 15, 2011 4:15 pm
>>> Subject: [frers-list]complete refit soon underway, what changes 
>>> would you make ?
>>> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com <mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
>>>
>>> > Ahoy !
>>> >
>>> > I am about to undertake a complete refit of a Frers33 and would
>>> > appreciate all input regarding
>>> > changes you would make vis-a-vis the original assemblage, if you
>>> > had the
>>> > same opportunity.
>>> >
>>> > Any suggestions regarding materials and technique regarding
>>> > typical
>>> > maintenance and restorative
>>> > procedures are welcome as well, of course.
>>> >
>>> > In particular... keel reattachment, hull deck joint, deck
>>> > reinforcement,
>>> > mast support, mast reconfiguration,
>>> > and rigging, both standing and running, and rudder
>>> > reinstallation... are
>>> > of particular concern,
>>> > as I'd hate like hell to bear this expense and later come to
>>> > grief over
>>> > a choice that could easily now be made
>>> > that would have made a much more salutary difference in time to come.
>>> >
>>> > An additional note is that the standing rigging is what I assume
>>> > was the
>>> > original 'rod' rigging.
>>> >
>>> > My primary interest is not racing, rather cruising.
>>> >
>>> > Has anyone shortened or otherwise altered the original mast ?
>>> >
>>> > Has anyone gone outboard with the chainplates ?
>>> >
>>> > Please include intended consequences of any suggested alterations.
>>> >
>>> > Hoping to not cause a firestorm from Frers purists :-)
>>> >
>>> > In any case, no alterations have been yet made,...
>>> >
>>> > Appreciatively,
>>> >
>>> > Courtney Thomas
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power,
>>> > have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing
>>> > government, and form a new one that suits them better,
>>> > This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right,
>>> > which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.
>>> > Abraham Lincoln
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > frers-list mailing list
>>> > frers-list@lists.frers33.com <mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
>>> > http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>>> >
>>>

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    Art,<br>
    <br>
    Since my boat is a wing keel, I am perhaps justified in my rudder
    concerns, in that the Caribbean is where I hope to initially head
    out. I wonder if Frers and Carroll modified the<br>
    stock rudder for the wing keel design ? Thanks for the rudder
    reduction concept. Next time you get a convenient opportunity, if
    you could let me know the area of a standard rudder, I'd be
    grateful.<br>
    A pointer to a picture and dimensions would be terrific, as I'm also
    preparing to reinstall the rudder but don't know if it's been
    altered and therefore suspect.<br>
    <br>
    Yes, hull #54. Any information about it would be helpful, especially
    unfavorable  :-)<br>
    <br>
    I have a heavy cruiser but wanted a fast coastal boat for island
    hopping in the Caribbean.<br>
    <br>
    Thanks for the transom drain(s) suggestion. I was thinking of 'goin'
    tiller' but it's got the destroyer wheel and from what you
    say....rightly so  :-)<br>
    <br>
    Appreciatively,<br>
    <br>
    Courtney<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    On 8/19/2011 9:22 PM, Arthur Kelley wrote:
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:98C9FD18-96FF-48AB-85A0-82D7D598ADF3@optonline.net"
      type="cite">
      <div>If I get your point about the rudder, it is a free standing
        spade rudder which is fairly well protected by the deep keel.
        Rudders are vulnerable when they extend below the depth of the
        keel and are exposed to the odd passing rock. I've seen this on
        some Hunter or Catalina wing keel boats. I hope between Frers
        and Carroll Marine they avoided this situation. The solution
        would be to consider shortening the depth and increasing the
        fore-aft length of the rudder maintaining the same area. </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Did you buy hull #54 ex-Frers-a-Jack from West Palm Beach,
        Florida?  <br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <div>To echo the sentiments of many here, if you want a round the
        world cruiser, perhaps you would best consider cleaning this
        boat up and selling it (most selling between $40K and $55K) and
        buying a heavier cruiser.  I you want a fast coastal cruiser,
        you've hit the mark and should just clean up the rough edges. </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>My only real gripes are minor, like draining the cockpit via
        through hulls below the water line makes the boat look nicer,
        but I would have preferred above the waterline, preferably out
        the transom for safety. Also in my humble opinion the rudder is
        not well designed/balanced for use with a tiller so I converted
        back to a wheel (Edson CDi) and like the results a lot. No
        handling issues. </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Good luck,<br>
        Art </div>
      <div><br>
        On Aug 19, 2011, at 3:25 PM, Courtney Thomas &lt;<a
          moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="mailto:courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net">courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net</a>&gt;
        wrote:<br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div> Dave,<br>
          <br>
          Thanks for the considered reply.<br>
          <br>
          I fully understand the motives regarding caveats applicable to
          underbody and rig alteration and will heed.<br>
          <br>
          My boat was described by the seller as a wing keel, on which
          I've found no specifics. I'd like to know the draft<br>
          with this keel and what others think of it vis-a-vis the
          standard fin.<br>
          <br>
          I'll plan on a multiply reefable main. Thanks for the
          suggestion.<br>
          <br>
          What do you think of continuing the rod rigging ? To what
          other types of standing rigging have others chosen<br>
          and with what results ?<br>
          <br>
          Do you know where I can view a picture [or find the specs] of
          a properly done "deck tie down"  ?<br>
          <br>
          Advantage of inboard shrouds is gratefully noted.<br>
          <br>
          I had planned on adding a bimini/dodger. Has no one
          satisfactorily added a bimini ?<br>
          <br>
          Has no one done anything to the stock rudder installation to
          render it less vulnerable ?<br>
          <br>
          Gratefully,<br>
          <br>
          Courtney<br>
          <br>
          On 8/19/2011 1:06 PM, Dave Nauber wrote:
          <blockquote
            cite="mid:db64c334-276a-4161-84c2-1eda0f746d1b@classeaudio.com"
            type="cite">
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              <div class="Section1">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Hi Courtney,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I have read
                      the few other replies and thought I would put in
                      my two cents. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">As Joyce
                      says, the Frers 33 is a well designed boat that is
                      both beautiful and seaworthy. I would approach any
                      structural modifications with caution, especially
                      if they involve the sail plan or under water
                      appendages. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">If you
                      shorten the keel to give access to more harbors,
                      consider a bulb or some means of maintaining the
                      righting moment. Shortening the rig would not
                      likely be much of an advantage (unless you need to
                      clear a fixed bridge) because it limits the sail
                      area when you need/want it. You can always reef
                      and use smaller headsails when over powered, so I
                      would recommend a mainsail with multiple reef
                      points. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Apparently
                      not all boats have a deck tie-down (turnbuckle
                      joining the front of the mast to the deck inside
                      the cabin) to keep the deck from flexing in breeze
                      and waves. I would install that if it’s not there.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">The advantage
                      of the double-spreader rig is that the shrouds are
                      further inboard at the deck, allowing for a
                      narrower sheeting angle. Changing this arrangement
                      will compromise your upwind performance, so I
                      wouldn’t modify it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">If I were
                      going to exclusively cruise the boat I would focus
                      on optimizing for navigation, auto helm,
                      refrigeration, add water holding capacity and
                      installing a newer stove/oven. I would break down
                      and add a sleek dodger and come up with a shade to
                      be used at anchor that could be removed when
                      underway. I think the boom is too low to do a
                      bimini properly.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">That’s it for
                      me. Anyone else have ideas or comments?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">BTW, you <i><span
                          style="font-style:italic">can</span></i> beat
                      a well sailed Frers 36, especially in light air,
                      but it’s not easy!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Dave Nauber<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Wolverine<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial"
                    size="2"><span style="font-size:
                      10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
                <div>
                  <div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
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                  <p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
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                        style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma"> <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com">frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com</a>
                        [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com">mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com</a>]
                        <b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b><st1:personname
                          w:st="on"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:joberdorf@optonline.net">joberdorf@optonline.net</a></st1:personname><br>
                        <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
                        Wednesday, August 17, 2011 5:34 P<st1:personname
                          w:st="on">M</st1:personname><br>
                        <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
                        <st1:personname w:st="on"><a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></st1:personname><br>
                        <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
                        Re: [frers-list]complete refit soon underway,
                        what changes would you make ?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman"
                    size="3"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman"
                      size="3"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">Courtney:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman"
                      size="3"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman"
                      size="3"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">I will
                        let others speak to the class rules
                        specifically. But suffice it to say that  to
                        significantly alter the boat would make the
                        frers a different boat. Barry Carroll got a lot
                        right when he designed it. It was Boat of the
                        Year at that time. By far, the sweetest sailing
                        Frers.  This has nothing to do with being a
                        purist-- it has to do with the design of the
                        boat. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman"
                      size="3"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">However,
                        here is what I know:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman"
                      size="3"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">1.
                        Running backs have been modified on some boats
                        (placement of on deck varies, mostly between
                        tiller and wheel boats)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman"
                      size="3"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">2. Keel
                        has been slightly modified on some boats. 
                        Wolverine has a slightly shorter keel that's
                        "thicker" (hence better downwind). Others, have
                        the standard depth keel.  Boats such as
                        Impetuous, and Checkmate (which followed
                        Impetuous' lead) faired the trailing edge and
                        therefore extended it to a fine edge. So you'll
                        see slight variations. But these are all allowed
                        within class rules.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman"
                      size="3"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">3. Never
                        heard of anyone shortening the mast. I heard of
                        a Frers 41 owner LENGthening the boom (whichis a
                        real pain in the butt in light air vis a vis the
                        backstay) and another lengthening the mast and
                        keeping the boom. But these were entirely
                        different boats.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman"
                      size="3"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">4. <st1:personname
                          w:st="on">M</st1:personname>ast Steps have
                        been strengthened in nearly every boat, over
                        time. <st1:personname w:st="on">M</st1:personname>ine

                        was done by prior owner at New England
                        Boatworks.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman"
                      size="3"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">5. Rudder
                        bearings have been changed in nearly every
                        boat.  For me, twice so far in 15 yrs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman"
                      size="3"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">6. <st1:personname
                          w:st="on">M</st1:personname>ost rod rigging is
                        replaced as it wears, but not reconfigured.  In
                        terms of other rigging, I've seen different
                        mainsheet arrangements in terms of block
                        purchase vs. fine tune, and most boats have
                        installed the Harken traveller system.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman"
                      size="3"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">7.
                        Spinnaker poles are now carbon fiber, etc, but
                        not changed otherwise.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman"
                      size="3"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman"
                      size="3"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"> I
                        presume you bought the Frers because you
                        actually liked the boat?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman"
                      size="3"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman"
                      size="3"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt">Joyce
                        (Checkmate owner)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman"
                      size="3"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt"><br>
                        ----- Original <st1:personname w:st="on">M</st1:personname>essage

                        -----<br>
                        From: Courtney Thomas <br>
                        <courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net>Date: <st1:personname
                            w:st="on">M</st1:personname>onday, August
                          15, 2011 4:15 pm<br>
                          Subject: [frers-list]complete refit soon
                          underway, what changes would you make ?<br>
                          To: <st1:personname w:st="on"><a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></st1:personname><br>
                          <br>
                          &gt; Ahoy !<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; I am about to undertake a complete refit
                          of a Frers33 and would <br>
                          &gt; appreciate all input regarding<br>
                          &gt; changes you would make vis-a-vis the
                          original assemblage, if you <br>
                          &gt; had the <br>
                          &gt; same opportunity.<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; Any suggestions regarding materials and
                          technique regarding <br>
                          &gt; typical <br>
                          &gt; maintenance and restorative<br>
                          &gt; procedures are welcome as well, of
                          course.<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; In particular... keel reattachment, hull
                          deck joint, deck <br>
                          &gt; reinforcement, <br>
                          &gt; mast support, mast reconfiguration,<br>
                          &gt; and rigging, both standing and running,
                          and rudder <br>
                          &gt; reinstallation... are <br>
                          &gt; of particular concern,<br>
                          &gt; as I'd hate like hell to bear this
                          expense and later come to <br>
                          &gt; grief over <br>
                          &gt; a choice that could easily now be made<br>
                          &gt; that would have made a much more salutary
                          difference in time to come.<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; An additional note is that the standing
                          rigging is what I assume <br>
                          &gt; was the <br>
                          &gt; original 'rod' rigging.<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; <st1:personname w:st="on">M</st1:personname>y
                          primary interest is not racing, rather
                          cruising.<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; Has anyone shortened or otherwise altered
                          the original mast ?<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; Has anyone gone outboard with the
                          chainplates ?<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; Please include intended consequences of
                          any suggested alterations.<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; Hoping to not cause a firestorm from
                          Frers purists :-)<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; In any case, no alterations have been yet
                          made,...<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; Appreciatively,<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; Courtney Thomas<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt; -- <br>
                          &gt; Any people anywhere, being inclined and
                          having the power,<br>
                          &gt; have the right to rise up, and shake off
                          the existing<br>
                          &gt; government, and form a new one that suits
                          them better,<br>
                          &gt; This is a most valuable - a most sacred
                          right - a right,<br>
                          &gt; which we hope and believe, is to liberate
                          the world.<br>
                          &gt; Abraham Lincoln<br>
                          &gt; <br>
                          &gt;
                          _______________________________________________<br>
                          &gt; frers-list mailing list<br>
                          &gt; <st1:personname w:st="on"><a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.com</a></st1:personname><br>
                          &gt; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list">http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list</a><br>
                          &gt; <o:p></o:p></courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net></span></font></p>
                </div>
              </div>
            </o:smarttagtype></blockquote>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
    </blockquote>
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