[frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #595 - 4 msgs
FRANCIS ALBERT
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Wed, 21 Nov 2012 08:30:05 -0800 (PST)
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The message from our friend in the mid-west was a nice message.=A0 Let me t=
ell you my tale.
=A0
I owned a CS 30 (not a fast boat).=A0 I had a PHRF of 149.=A0 Lowest in the=
nation.=A0 I sent a letter to PHRF of the Chesapeake (yes I am naming name=
s).=A0 The letter had an endorsement from the local UK Sail maker who had s=
ailed with us a number of times.=A0 It also had results from a years worth =
of racing both.=A0 Mark racing and point to point long races.=A0 It showed =
the various handicaps around the country.=A0 I asked for a 9 second increas=
e to my PHRF.=A0 I was denied.=A0 I called my PHRF rep.=A0 We talked, he to=
ld me if I wasn't buying all new sails every year I had no business racing.=
=A0 I hung up.=A0=20
=A0
I called my sail maker and told him I'd been refused.=A0 He said he would t=
alk to them.=A0 The next day I had 6 seconds added to my PHRF.=A0 A sad, sa=
d story about PHRF of the Chesapeake.
=A0
Frank Albert
--- On Wed, 11/21/12, fwitt1@comcast.net <fwitt1@comcast.net> wrote:
From: fwitt1@comcast.net <fwitt1@comcast.net>
Subject: [frers-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #595 - 4 msgs
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Date: Wednesday, November 21, 2012, 12:32 AM
#yiv1543362934 p {margin:0;}
Edgar,
=A0
I am on the local PHRF council, which shall go unnamed, representing my clu=
b amongst the many in our local race venues. We routinely meet during the o=
ff season to assign handicaps to new boats, re-rate boats based upon altera=
tions to rigs and sails, and hear appeals of ratings. So there are a few ti=
ps I can provide to present to your local PHRF council.=20
=A0
First of all, supplying individual race results is the single most importan=
t thing you can do to support your case. Find out from the local council ju=
st how thay want that information presented. Our council has a excel spread=
sheet format, along with the Excel program that they will provide for appe=
llants.=20
=A0
Second, If they will let you attend, try to bring a few of the fleet skippe=
rs to present your case in person. The fact that you are "buttoned up" with=
numbers and appear in person=A0is important.=20
=A0
Third, realize that most councils have a philosophy r protecting the fleet.=
Councils usually have a few boats that they have a lot of history on, and =
whose performance is a known factor. They use these boats to judge your per=
formance rating. In our council, one=A0such boats is the J 35. Any time you=
get to compare your results against the J 35, assuming it supports your ca=
se, should be highlighted.=20
=A0
Fourth, Try not to use other venues as a rationale for your rating, partly =
because local councils don't like comparing or averaging PHRF ratings. Some=
times this reflects a parochial attitude about their council, and other tim=
es because=A0there are significant differences between San Francisco as it =
is=A0known as a high wind venue, and San=A0Diego as a less windy. Long Isla=
nd is known-at least in my council-as a light wind area. Another issue is c=
omparing salt water ratings vs fresh water. Your boats float higher and the=
refore have somewhat less wetted area than freshwater=A0boats.=A0Another th=
ing you may want to research for the meeting is the ratings of similar boat=
s under the IMS ratings. Although they don't like to admit it, the technica=
l sub committee of the councils will often look at comparisons of these rat=
ings compared to similar boats (like the J 35) to determine if your rating =
appears to be in line.=20
=A0
Let me know if I can be of further assistance. By the way, my rating is 108=
, which was adjusted downward=A0 before I purchased my boat, from a 114.
=A0
Your secret pal in the Midwest.
=A0
FW
=A0
From: frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:21:03 PM
Subject: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #595 - 4 msgs
Send frers-list mailing list submissions to
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t
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of frers-list digest..."
Today's Topics:
=A0=A0 1. ECSA class rating (Edgar Smith)
=A0=A0 2. Re: ECSA class rating (FRANCIS ALBERT)
=A0=A0 3. Re: ECSA class rating (William Thompson)
=A0=A0 4. Re: ECSA class rating (Scott Marino)
--__--__--
Message: 1
From: Edgar Smith <edgar@geomatrixproductions.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 11:10:47 -0500
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: [frers-list]ECSA class rating
Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
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The ECSA is reviewing the ratings of a number of boats at their next =3D
meeting on January 22, 2013. I'm told that this is a fairly routine =3D
review of boats/classes that have done well in the previous season, but =3D
the review can sometimes result in an adjustment of up to 3 seconds/mile =
=3D
for the class. I believe that the Frers 33 is fairly rated in Eastern =3D
Long Island Sound at 108/129 and plan to go to the meeting to present =3D
evidence to support this and insure we don't get an unwarranted negative =
=3D
rating adjustment.=3D20
The Frers 33 has done well in the results, but if you look at the boats =3D
in our division who raced more than 2 or more races in 2011, (21 boats) =3D
the Frers 33s are well distributed across the group 1, 2, 6, 9, 13, 21. =3D
I think this shows mainly that there are far more Frers 33s racing and =3D
doing more races than any other boat type in Div 1. The same story holds =
=3D
for the ECSA overall results at 2, 18, 41, 47, 75, 108, 116. In overall =3D
standings boats in the class average 58th among 116 boats racing 2 or =3D
more races, exactly in the 50th percentile. This compares with other =3D
competitive boats with better averages such as the J-27 with an average =3D
finish 52nd, the Tripp 36 average finish 55th, the Evelyn 32-2 with and =3D
average finish of 57th.=3D20
I'm also working on a graph of two years of races in Pachyderm vs. the =3D
two previous two years in our J-29 Wasabi using the recorded results for =
=3D
the Branford summer series. I think this should be an objective way of =3D
separating out all other factors to compare the ratings of the the J-29 =3D
Frac vs the Frers 33. The J-29 fractional rating is not under review. At =
=3D
first look, I think I can show that our performance against others in =3D
nearly 30 races in each boat remained unchanged, suggesting the ratings =3D
were commensurate. =A0(In fact, if anything the Frers 33 rating is a =3D
little tougher)
I'd like to collect other supporting data such as IRC ratings, PHRF =3D
ratings in other regions and any other ideas for presenting our case =3D
from the fleet.=3D20
Edgar Smith
Pachyderm=3D
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<html><head></head><body style=3D3D"word-wrap: break-word; =3D
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">The =3D
ECSA is reviewing the ratings of a number of boats at their next meeting =
=3D
on January 22, 2013. I'm told that this is a fairly routine review of =3D
boats/classes that have done well in the previous season, but the review =
=3D
can sometimes result in an adjustment of up to 3 seconds/mile for the =3D
class. I believe that the Frers 33 is fairly rated in Eastern Long =3D
Island Sound at 108/129 and plan to go to the meeting to present =3D
evidence to support this and insure we don't get an unwarranted negative =
=3D
rating adjustment. <div><br></div><div>The Frers 33 has do=
ne well =3D
in the results, but if you look at the boats in our division who raced =3D
more than 2 or more races in 2011, (21 boats) the Frers 33s are well =3D
distributed across the group 1, 2, 6, 9, 13, 21. I think this shows =
=3D
mainly that there are far more Frers 33s racing and doing more races =3D
than any other boat type in Div 1. The same story holds for the ECSA =3D
overall results at 2, 18, 41, 47, 75, 108, 116. In overall standings =3D
boats in the class average 58th among 116 boats racing 2 or more races, =3D
exactly in the 50th percentile. This compares with other competitive =3D
boats with better averages such as the J-27 with an average finish =3D
52nd, the Tripp 36 average finish 55th, the Evelyn 32-2 with =3D
and average finish of 57th. </div><div><div><br></div>&=
lt;div>I'm also =3D
working on a graph of two years of races in Pachyderm vs. the two =3D
previous two years in our J-29 Wasabi using the recorded results for the =
=3D
Branford summer series. I think this should be an objective way of =3D
separating out all other factors to compare the ratings of the the J-29 =3D
Frac vs the Frers 33. The J-29 fractional rating is not under review. At =
=3D
first look, I think I can show that our performance against others in =3D
nearly 30 races in each boat remained unchanged, suggesting the ratings =3D
were commensurate. (In fact, if anything the Frers 33 rating is a =3D
little tougher)</div><div><br></div><div><div><div>I'd=
like to collect =3D
other supporting data such as IRC ratings, PHRF ratings in other regions =
=3D
and any other ideas for presenting our case from the =3D
fleet. </div><div><br><div><div>
<span class=3D3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D3D"border-collapse: separate;=
=3D
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; =3D
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =3D
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =3D
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
=3D
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =3D
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =3D
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =3D
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span =3D
class=3D3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
=3D
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
=3D
normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
=3D
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: =
=3D
0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =3D
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =3D
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D3D"word-wrap: =3D
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =3D
after-white-space; "><span class=3D3D"Apple-style-span" =3D
style=3D3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant: =
=3D
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; =3D
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; =3D
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =3D
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =3D
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =3D
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D3D"word-wrap: =3D
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =3D
after-white-space; "><font class=3D3D"Apple-style-span" =3D
face=3D3D"Arial"><div>Edgar =3D
Smith</div><div>Pachyderm</div></font></div></span></d=
iv></span></span></d=3D
iv></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>=3D
--Apple-Mail-2--688990298--
--__--__--
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 14:15:20 -0800 (PST)
From: FRANCIS ALBERT <fxalbert@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: [frers-list]ECSA class rating
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
---643335624-2068849514-1353449720=3D:24309
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Edgar,
=3DA0
PHRF of the Chesapeake rates the Frers 33 at 114 which is a difficult ratin=
=3D
g to sail to.=3DA0 I do okay but we sail the=3DA0heck out of that boat and =
the =3D
crew work is impeccable.
=3DA0=3D20
=3DA0
Thanks,
Frank Albert
RELENTLESS
--- On Tue, 11/20/12, Edgar Smith <edgar@geomatrixproductions.com> wrote=
:
From: Edgar Smith <edgar@geomatrixproductions.com>
Subject: [frers-list]ECSA class rating
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 11:10 AM
The ECSA is reviewing the ratings of a number of boats at their next meetin=
=3D
g on January 22, 2013. I'm told that this is a fairly routine review of boa=
=3D
ts/classes that have done well in the previous season, but the review can s=
=3D
ometimes result in an adjustment of up to 3 seconds/mile for the class.=3DA=
0I=3D
=A0believe that the Frers 33 is fairly rated in Eastern Long Island Sound a=
t =3D
108/129 and=3DA0plan to go to the meeting to present evidence to support th=
is=3D
=A0and insure we don't get an unwarranted negative rating adjustment.=3DA0=
=3D20
The Frers 33 has done well in the results, but if you look at the boats in =
=3D
our division who raced more than 2 or more races in 2011, (21 boats) the Fr=
=3D
ers 33s are well distributed across the group 1, 2, 6, 9, 13, 21.=3DA0I thi=
nk=3D
=A0this shows mainly that there are far more Frers 33s racing and doing mor=
e =3D
races than any other boat type in Div 1. The same story holds for the ECSA =
=3D
overall results at 2, 18, 41, 47, 75, 108, 116. In overall standings boats =
=3D
in the class average 58th among 116 boats racing 2 or more races, exactly i=
=3D
n the 50th percentile. This compares with other competitive boats with bett=
=3D
er averages such as the=3DA0J-27 with an average finish 52nd,=3DA0the Tripp=
36 =3D
average finish 55th,=3DA0the Evelyn 32-2 with and average finish of 57th.=
=3DA0
I'm also working on a graph of two years of races in Pachyderm vs. the two =
=3D
previous two years in our J-29 Wasabi using the recorded results for the Br=
=3D
anford summer series. I think this should be an objective way of separating=
=3D
=A0out all other factors to compare the ratings of the the J-29 Frac vs the=
F=3D
rers 33. The J-29 fractional rating is not under review. At first look, I t=
=3D
hink I can show that our performance against others in nearly 30 races in e=
=3D
ach boat remained unchanged, suggesting the ratings were commensurate. =3DA=
0(=3D
In fact, if anything the Frers 33 rating is a little tougher)
I'd like to collect other supporting data such as IRC ratings, PHRF ratings=
=3D
=A0in other regions and any other ideas for presenting our case from the fl=
ee=3D
t.=3DA0
Edgar Smith
Pachyderm
---643335624-2068849514-1353449720=3D:24309
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<table cellspacing=3D3D"0" cellpadding=3D3D"0" border=3D3D"0" ><tr>&l=
t;td valign=3D3D"=3D
top" style=3D3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>Edgar,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>PHRF of the Chesapeake rates the Frers 33 at 114 which is a difficu=
lt =3D
rating to sail to. I do okay but we sail the heck out of that bo=
=3D
at and the crew work is impeccable.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Frank Albert</DIV>
<DIV>RELENTLESS<BR><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 11/20/12, Edgar Smith <=
;I><edgar@ge=3D
omatrixproductions.com></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LE=
FT: 5=3D
px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Edgar Smith <edgar@geomatrixproductio=
ns.=3D
com><BR>Subject: [<SPAN>frers</SPAN>-list]ECSA class rating<=
BR>To: frers=3D
-list@lists.frers33.com<BR>Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 11:10 AM<=
;BR><B=3D
R>
<DIV id=3D3Dyiv249185265>
<DIV>The ECSA is reviewing the ratings of a number of boats at their nex=
t m=3D
eeting on January 22, 2013. I'm told that this is a fairly routine review o=
=3D
f boats/classes that have done well in the previous season, but the review =
=3D
can sometimes result in an adjustment of up to 3 seconds/mile for the class=
=3D
. I believe that the Frers 33 is fairly rated in Eastern Long Island S=
=3D
ound at 108/129 and plan to go to the meeting to present evidence to s=
=3D
upport this and insure we don't get an unwarranted negative rating adjustme=
=3D
nt. =3D20
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The Frers 33 has done well in the results, but if you look at the b=
oat=3D
s in our division who raced more than 2 or more races in 2011, (21 boats) t=
=3D
he Frers 33s are well distributed across the group 1, 2, 6, 9, 13, 21. =
=3D
;I think this shows mainly that there are far more Frers 33s racing and doi=
=3D
ng more races than any other boat type in Div 1. The same story holds for t=
=3D
he ECSA overall results at 2, 18, 41, 47, 75, 108, 116. In overall standing=
=3D
s boats in the class average 58th among 116 boats racing 2 or more races, e=
=3D
xactly in the 50th percentile. This compares with other competitive boats w=
=3D
ith better averages such as the J-27 with an average finish 52nd, =
=3D
;the Tripp 36 average finish 55th, the Evelyn 32-2 with and average fi=
=3D
nish of 57th. </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I'm also working on a graph of two years of races in Pachyderm vs. =
the=3D
=A0two previous two years in our J-29 Wasabi using the recorded results for=
t=3D
he Branford summer series. I think this should be an objective way of separ=
=3D
ating out all other factors to compare the ratings of the the J-29 Frac vs =
=3D
the Frers 33. The J-29 fractional rating is not under review. At first look=
=3D
, I think I can show that our performance against others in nearly 30 races=
=3D
=A0in each boat remained unchanged, suggesting the ratings were commensurat=
e.=3D
=A0 (In fact, if anything the Frers 33 rating is a little tougher)<=
/DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>I'd like to collect other supporting data such as IRC ratings, PHRF=
ra=3D
tings in other regions and any other ideas for presenting our case from the=
=3D
=A0fleet. </DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D3D"WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0=
px; BORD=3D
ER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Verdana; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: =
=3D
2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=3D3D=
yi=3D
v249185265Apple-style-span><SPAN style=3D3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS:=
2; T=3D
EXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPS=
=3D
E: separate; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR=
=3D
: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=3D3Dyiv249185265Apple-style-span>
<DIV style=3D3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word"><SPAN style=3D3D"LINE-HEIGHT: =
normal; WI=3D
DOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORD=
=3D
ER-COLLAPSE: separate; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: nor=
=3D
mal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=3D3Dyiv249185265Apple-styl=
e-=3D
span>
<DIV style=3D3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word"><FONT class=3D3Dyiv249185265Ap=
ple-style-=3D
span face=3D3DArial>
<DIV>Edgar Smith</DIV>
<DIV>Pachyderm</DIV></FONT></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN>&=
lt;/SPAN></DIV></DIV></D=3D
IV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td><=
;/tr></table>
---643335624-2068849514-1353449720=3D:24309--
--__--__--
Message: 3
Cc: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" <frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
From: William Thompson <foredeck@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: [frers-list]ECSA class rating
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:31:32 -0500
To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" <frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
--Boundary_(ID_tR3sjQBV9Wic6t0+R9DkzQ)
Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=3DUS-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
I race at 114 in Montreal, with a keel shortened to 5'8" and a bulb making =
an additional 180 lb over the original keel weight. The St Lawrence Valley =
Yacht Racing Assoc. said they were giving me 3 sec. a mile over the 111 the=
y would have assigned unmodified.
William Thompson
Sent from my iPad
On 2012-11-20, at 5:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT <fxalbert@prodigy.net> wrote:
>=20
> Edgar,
> =A0
> PHRF of the Chesapeake rates the Frers 33 at 114 which is a difficult rat=
ing to sail to. =A0I do okay but we sail the heck out of that boat and the =
crew work is impeccable.
> =A0
> =A0
> Thanks,
> Frank Albert
> RELENTLESS
>=20
> --- On Tue, 11/20/12, Edgar Smith <edgar@geomatrixproductions.com> wro=
te:
>=20
> From: Edgar Smith <edgar@geomatrixproductions.com>
> Subject: [frers-list]ECSA class rating
> To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 11:10 AM
>=20
> The ECSA is reviewing the ratings of a number of boats at their next meet=
ing on January 22, 2013. I'm told that this is a fairly routine review of b=
oats/classes that have done well in the previous season, but the review can=
sometimes result in an adjustment of up to 3 seconds/mile for the class. I=
believe that the Frers 33 is fairly rated in Eastern Long Island Sound at =
108/129 and plan to go to the meeting to present evidence to support this a=
nd insure we don't get an unwarranted negative rating adjustment.=20
>=20
> The Frers 33 has done well in the results, but if you look at the boats i=
n our division who raced more than 2 or more races in 2011, (21 boats) the =
Frers 33s are well distributed across the group 1, 2, 6, 9, 13, 21. I think=
this shows mainly that there are far more Frers 33s racing and doing more =
races than any other boat type in Div 1. The same story holds for the ECSA =
overall results at 2, 18, 41, 47, 75, 108, 116. In overall standings boats =
in the class average 58th among 116 boats racing 2 or more races, exactly i=
n the 50th percentile. This compares with other competitive boats with bett=
er averages such as the J-27 with an average finish 52nd, the Tripp 36 aver=
age finish 55th, the Evelyn 32-2 with and average finish of 57th.=20
>=20
> I'm also working on a graph of two years of races in Pachyderm vs. the tw=
o previous two years in our J-29 Wasabi using the recorded results for the =
Branford summer series. I think this should be an objective way of separati=
ng out all other factors to compare the ratings of the the J-29 Frac vs the=
Frers 33. The J-29 fractional rating is not under review. At first look, I=
think I can show that our performance against others in nearly 30 races in=
each boat remained unchanged, suggesting the ratings were commensurate. =
=A0(In fact, if anything the Frers 33 rating is a little tougher)
>=20
> I'd like to collect other supporting data such as IRC ratings, PHRF ratin=
gs in other regions and any other ideas for presenting our case from the fl=
eet.=20
>=20
> Edgar Smith
> Pachyderm
--Boundary_(ID_tR3sjQBV9Wic6t0+R9DkzQ)
Content-type: text/html; CHARSET=3DUS-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html=
; charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>I race at 114 in=
Montreal, with a keel shortened to 5'8" and a bulb making an additional 18=
0 lb over the original keel weight. The St Lawrence Valley Yacht Racing Ass=
oc. said they were giving me 3 sec. a mile over the 111 they would have ass=
igned unmodified.<br><br>William Thompson<div>Sent from my iPad<=
;/div></div><div><br>On 2012-11-20, at 5:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT <=
;<a href=3D"mailto:fxalbert@prodigy.net">fxalbert@prodigy.net</a>>=
wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><tabl=
e cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td =
valign=3D"top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><div>Edgar,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>PHRF of the Chesapeake rates the Frers 33 at 114 which is a difficu=
lt rating to sail to. I do okay but we sail the heck out of that=
boat and the crew work is impeccable.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Frank Albert</div>
<div>RELENTLESS<br><br>--- On <b>Tue, 11/20/12, Edgar Smith <=
;i><<a href=3D"mailto:edgar@geomatrixproductions.com">edgar@geomatrix=
productions.com</a>></i></b> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><br>From: Edgar Smith <<a href=3D"mailto:=
edgar@geomatrixproductions.com">edgar@geomatrixproductions.com</a>>&l=
t;br>Subject: [<span>frers</span>-list]ECSA class rating<br>To: &l=
t;a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers33.c=
om</a><br>Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 11:10 AM<br><br>
<div id=3D"yiv249185265">
<div>The ECSA is reviewing the ratings of a number of boats at their nex=
t meeting on January 22, 2013. I'm told that this is a fairly routine revie=
w of boats/classes that have done well in the previous season, but the revi=
ew can sometimes result in an adjustment of up to 3 seconds/mile for the cl=
ass. I believe that the Frers 33 is fairly rated in Eastern Long Islan=
d Sound at 108/129 and plan to go to the meeting to present evidence t=
o support this and insure we don't get an unwarranted negative rating adjus=
tment. =20
<div><br></div>
<div>The Frers 33 has done well in the results, but if you look at the b=
oats in our division who raced more than 2 or more races in 2011, (21 boats=
) the Frers 33s are well distributed across the group 1, 2, 6, 9, 13, 21.&n=
bsp;I think this shows mainly that there are far more Frers 33s racing and =
doing more races than any other boat type in Div 1. The same story holds fo=
r the ECSA overall results at 2, 18, 41, 47, 75, 108, 116. In overall stand=
ings boats in the class average 58th among 116 boats racing 2 or more races=
, exactly in the 50th percentile. This compares with other competitive boat=
s with better averages such as the J-27 with an average finish 52nd,&n=
bsp;the Tripp 36 average finish 55th, the Evelyn 32-2 with and average=
finish of 57th. </div>
<div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I'm also working on a graph of two years of races in Pachyderm vs. =
the two previous two years in our J-29 Wasabi using the recorded results fo=
r the Branford summer series. I think this should be an objective way of se=
parating out all other factors to compare the ratings of the the J-29 Frac =
vs the Frers 33. The J-29 fractional rating is not under review. At first l=
ook, I think I can show that our performance against others in nearly 30 ra=
ces in each boat remained unchanged, suggesting the ratings were commensura=
te. (In fact, if anything the Frers 33 rating is a little tougher)<=
;/div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>I'd like to collect other supporting data such as IRC ratings, PHRF=
ratings in other regions and any other ideas for presenting our case from =
the fleet. </div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div><span style=3D"WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px=
; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Verdana; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORP=
HANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" clas=
s=3D"yiv249185265Apple-style-span"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; W=
IDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BOR=
DER-COLLAPSE: separate; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: no=
rmal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=3D"yiv249185265Apple-styl=
e-span">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word"><span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: norm=
al; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px=
; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACIN=
G: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=3D"yiv249185265Apple=
-style-span">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word"><font class=3D"yiv249185265Apple=
-style-span" face=3D"Arial">
<div>Edgar Smith</div>
<div>Pachyderm</div></font></div></span></div></span>&=
lt;/span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
;/div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table></div></b=
lockquote></body></html>
--Boundary_(ID_tR3sjQBV9Wic6t0+R9DkzQ)--
--__--__--
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 19:19:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Marino <scottamarino@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [frers-list]ECSA class rating
To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" <frers-list@lists.frers33.com>
Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
---375072337-321145529-1353467943=3D:8112
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Diso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Don't sail here, it's worse...=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A_________________________=
_______=3D
=3D0AFrom: FRANCIS ALBERT <fxalbert@prodigy.net>=3D0ATo: frers-list@list=
s.frers=3D
33.com =3D0ASent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:15 PM=3D0ASubject: Re: [frer=
s-li=3D
st]ECSA class rating=3D0A=3D0AEdgar,=3D0A=3D0APHRF of the Chesapeake rates =
the Frer=3D
s 33 at 114 which is a difficult rating to sail to.=3DA0 I do okay but we s=
ai=3D
l the=3DA0heck out of that boat and the crew work is impeccable.=3D0A=3DA0 =
=3D0A=3D0A=3D
Thanks,=3D0AFrank Albert=3D0ARELENTLESS--- On Tue, 11/20/12, Edgar Smith &l=
t;edgar=3D
@geomatrixproductions.com> wrote:=3D0A=3D0A>From: Edgar Smith <edgar@geo=
matrixp=3D
roductions.com>=3D0A>Subject: [frers-list]ECSA class rating=3D0A>To: frers-=
list=3D
@lists.frers33.com=3D0A>Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 11:10 AM=3D0A>=3D=
0A>=3D0A=3D
>The ECSA is reviewing the ratings of a number of boats at their next meeti=
=3D
ng on January 22, 2013. I'm told that this is a fairly routine review of bo=
=3D
ats/classes that have done well in the previous season, but the review can =
=3D
sometimes result in an adjustment of up to 3 seconds/mile for the class.=3D=
A0=3D
I believe that the Frers 33 is fairly rated in Eastern Long Island Sound at=
=3D
=A0108/129 and=3DA0plan to go to the meeting to present evidence to support=
thi=3D
s and insure we don't get an unwarranted negative rating adjustment.=3DA0 =
=3D0A=3D
>The Frers 33 has done well in the results, but if you look at the boats in=
=3D
=A0our division who raced more than 2 or more races in 2011, (21 boats) the=
F=3D
rers 33s are well distributed across the group 1, 2, 6, 9, 13, 21.=3DA0I th=
in=3D
k this shows mainly that there are far more Frers 33s racing and doing more=
=3D
=A0races than any other boat type in Div 1. The same story holds for the EC=
SA=3D
=A0overall results at 2, 18, 41, 47, 75, 108, 116. In overall standings boa=
ts=3D
=A0in the class average 58th among 116 boats racing 2 or more races, exactl=
y =3D
in the 50th percentile. This compares with other competitive boats with bet=
=3D
ter averages such as the=3DA0J-27 with an average finish 52nd,=3DA0the Trip=
p 36=3D
=A0average finish 55th,=3DA0the Evelyn 32-2 with and average finish of 57th=
.=3DA0=3D
=3D0A>I'm also working on a graph of two years of races in Pachyderm vs. th=
e =3D
two previous two years in our J-29 Wasabi using the recorded results for th=
=3D
e Branford summer series. I think this should be an objective way of separa=
=3D
ting out all other factors to compare the ratings of the the J-29 Frac vs t=
=3D
he Frers 33. The J-29 fractional rating is not under review. At first look,=
=3D
=A0I think I can show that our performance against others in nearly 30 race=
s =3D
in each boat remained unchanged, suggesting the ratings were commensurate. =
=3D
=3DA0(In fact, if anything the Frers 33 rating is a little tougher)=3D0A>I'=
d li=3D
ke to collect other supporting data such as IRC ratings, PHRF ratings in ot=
=3D
her regions and any other ideas for presenting our case from the fleet.=3DA=
0=3D
=3D0A>Edgar Smith=3D0A>Pachyderm=20
---375072337-321145529-1353467943=3D:8112
Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><body><div style=3D3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; fon=
t-family:ti=3D
mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div style=3D3D"RI=
GHT: =3D
auto"><SPAN style=3D3D"RIGHT: auto">Don't sail here, it's worse...<VA=
R id=3D3Dy=3D
ui-ie-cursor></VAR><BR style=3D3D"RIGHT: auto" class=3D3Dyui-cursor>&=
lt;/SPAN></di=3D
v>
<div><BR></div>
<DIV style=3D3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FO=
NT-SI=3D
ZE: 12pt">
<DIV style=3D3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif; FO=
NT-SI=3D
ZE: 12pt">
<DIV dir=3D3Dltr><FONT size=3D3D2 face=3D3DArial>
<DIV style=3D3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px sol=
id; P=3D
ADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PAD=
=3D
DING-RIGHT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; B=
=3D
ORDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=3D3Dhr contentEditable=
=3D
=3D3Dfalse readonly=3D3D"true"></DIV><B><SPAN style=3D3D"FONT-WEIG=
HT: bold">From:=3D
</SPAN></B> FRANCIS ALBERT <fxalbert@prodigy.net><BR><B>&=
lt;SPAN style=3D
=3D3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> frers-list@lists.frers33.com =
<BR><B><=3D
SPAN style=3D3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, November=
20, 201=3D
2 5:15 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</S=
PAN></B> Re: [=3D
frers-list]ECSA class rating<BR></FONT></DIV><WBR>
<DIV id=3D3Dyiv989608804>
<TABLE border=3D3D0 cellSpacing=3D3D0 cellPadding=3D3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=3D3Dtop>
<DIV>Edgar,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>PHRF of the Chesapeake rates the Frers 33 at 114 which is a difficu=
lt =3D
rating to sail to. I do okay but we sail the heck out of that bo=
=3D
at and the crew work is impeccable.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Frank Albert</DIV>
<DIV>RELENTLESS<WBR><WBR>--- On <B>Tue, 11/20/12, Edgar Smith &=
lt;I><edgar@=3D
geomatrixproductions.com></I></B> wrote:<WBR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LE=
FT: 5=3D
px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: Edgar Smith <edgar@geomatrixproductio=
ns.=3D
com><BR>Subject: [<SPAN>frers</SPAN>-list]ECSA class rating<=
BR>To: frers=3D
-list@lists.frers33.com<BR>Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 11:10 AM<=
;BR><B=3D
R>
<DIV id=3D3Dyiv989608804>
<DIV>The ECSA is reviewing the ratings of a number of boats at their nex=
t m=3D
eeting on January 22, 2013. I'm told that this is a fairly routine review o=
=3D
f boats/classes that have done well in the previous season, but the review =
=3D
can sometimes result in an adjustment of up to 3 seconds/mile for the class=
=3D
. I believe that the Frers 33 is fairly rated in Eastern Long Island S=
=3D
ound at 108/129 and plan to go to the meeting to present evidence to s=
=3D
upport this and insure we don't get an unwarranted negative rating adjustme=
=3D
nt. =3D20
<DIV><WBR></DIV>
<DIV>The Frers 33 has done well in the results, but if you look at the b=
oat=3D
s in our division who raced more than 2 or more races in 2011, (21 boats) t=
=3D
he Frers 33s are well distributed across the group 1, 2, 6, 9, 13, 21. =
=3D
;I think this shows mainly that there are far more Frers 33s racing and doi=
=3D
ng more races than any other boat type in Div 1. The same story holds for t=
=3D
he ECSA overall results at 2, 18, 41, 47, 75, 108, 116. In overall standing=
=3D
s boats in the class average 58th among 116 boats racing 2 or more races, e=
=3D
xactly in the 50th percentile. This compares with other competitive boats w=
=3D
ith better averages such as the J-27 with an average finish 52nd, =
=3D
;the Tripp 36 average finish 55th, the Evelyn 32-2 with and average fi=
=3D
nish of 57th. </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><WBR></DIV>
<DIV>I'm also working on a graph of two years of races in Pachyderm vs. =
the=3D
=A0two previous two years in our J-29 Wasabi using the recorded results for=
t=3D
he Branford summer series. I think this should be an objective way of separ=
=3D
ating out all other factors to compare the ratings of the the J-29 Frac vs =
=3D
the Frers 33. The J-29 fractional rating is not under review. At first look=
=3D
, I think I can show that our performance against others in nearly 30 races=
=3D
=A0in each boat remained unchanged, suggesting the ratings were commensurat=
e.=3D
=A0 (In fact, if anything the Frers 33 rating is a little tougher)<=
/DIV>
<DIV><WBR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>I'd like to collect other supporting data such as IRC ratings, PHRF=
ra=3D
tings in other regions and any other ideas for presenting our case from the=
=3D
=A0fleet. </DIV>
<DIV><WBR>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D3D"WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0=
px; BORD=3D
ER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Verdana; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: =
=3D
2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=3D3D=
yi=3D
v989608804Apple-style-span><SPAN style=3D3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS:=
2; T=3D
EXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPS=
=3D
E: separate; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR=
=3D
: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=3D3Dyiv989608804Apple-style-span>
<DIV style=3D3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word"><SPAN style=3D3D"LINE-HEIGHT: =
normal; WI=3D
DOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORD=
=3D
ER-COLLAPSE: separate; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: nor=
=3D
mal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=3D3Dyiv989608804Apple-styl=
e-=3D
span>
<DIV style=3D3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word"><FONT class=3D3Dyiv989608804Ap=
ple-style-=3D
span face=3D3DArial>
<DIV>Edgar Smith</DIV>
<DIV>Pachyderm</DIV></FONT></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN>&=
lt;/SPAN></DIV></DIV></D=3D
IV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD><=
;/TR></TBODY></TABLE></D=3D
IV><WBR><WBR></DIV></DIV></div></body></html>
---375072337-321145529-1353467943=3D:8112--
--__--__--
_______________________________________________
frers-list mailing list
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
End of frers-list Digest
---1654260983-998698336-1353515405=:9309
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>The message from our friend in the mid-w=
est was a nice message. Let me tell you my tale.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I owned a CS 30 (not a fast boat). I had a PHRF of 149. Lo=
west in the nation. I sent a letter to PHRF of the Chesapeake (yes I =
am naming names). The letter had an endorsement from the local UK Sai=
l maker who had sailed with us a number of times. It also had results=
from a years worth of racing both. Mark racing and point to point lo=
ng races. It showed the various handicaps around the country. I=
asked for a 9 second increase to my PHRF. I was denied. I call=
ed my PHRF rep. We talked, he told me if I wasn't buying all new sail=
s every year I had no business racing. I hung up. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I called my sail maker and told him I'd been refused. He said he=
would talk to them. The next day I had 6 seconds added to my PHRF.&n=
bsp; A sad, sad story about PHRF of the Chesapeake.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Frank Albert<BR><BR>--- On <B>Wed, 11/21/12, fwitt1@comcast.net <I><=
;fwitt1@comcast.net></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5=
px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: fwitt1@comcast.net <fwitt1@comcast.net&g=
t;<BR>Subject: [<SPAN>frers</SPAN>-list]Re: frers-list digest, Vol 1 #595 -=
4 msgs<BR>To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR>Date: Wednesday, November 21=
, 2012, 12:32 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv1543362934>
<STYLE type=3Dtext/css>#yiv1543362934 p {margin:0;}</STYLE>
<DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV>Edgar,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am on the local PHRF council, which shall go unnamed, representing m=
y club amongst the many in our local race venues. We routinely meet during =
the off season to assign handicaps to new boats, re-rate boats based upon a=
lterations to rigs and sails, and hear appeals of ratings. So there are a f=
ew tips I can provide to present to your local PHRF council. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>First of all, supplying individual race results is the single most imp=
ortant thing you can do to support your case. Find out from the local counc=
il just how thay want that information presented. Our council has a excel s=
pread sheet format, along with the Excel program that they will provide for=
appellants. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Second, If they will let you attend, try to bring a few of the fleet s=
kippers to present your case in person. The fact that you are "buttoned up"=
with numbers and appear in person is important. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Third, realize that most councils have a philosophy r protecting the f=
leet. Councils usually have a few boats that they have a lot of history on,=
and whose performance is a known factor. They use these boats to judge you=
r performance rating. In our council, one such boats is the J 35. Any =
time you get to compare your results against the J 35, assuming it supports=
your case, should be highlighted. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Fourth, Try not to use other venues as a rationale for your rating, pa=
rtly because local councils don't like comparing or averaging PHRF ratings.=
Sometimes this reflects a parochial attitude about their council, and othe=
r times because there are significant differences between San Francisc=
o as it is known as a high wind venue, and San Diego as a less wi=
ndy. Long Island is known-at least in my council-as a light wind area. Anot=
her issue is comparing salt water ratings vs fresh water. Your boats float =
higher and therefore have somewhat less wetted area than freshwater bo=
ats. Another thing you may want to research for the meeting is the rat=
ings of similar boats under the IMS ratings. Although they don't like to ad=
mit it, the technical sub committee of the councils will often look at comp=
arisons of these ratings compared to similar boats (like the J 35) to deter=
mine if your rating appears to be in line. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Let me know if I can be of further assistance. By the way, my rating i=
s 108, which was adjusted downward before I purchased my boat, from a=
114.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Your secret pal in the Midwest.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>FW</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<HR id=3Dyiv1543362934zwchr>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><B>From: </B>frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com<BR><B>To: </B>frers-=
list@lists.frers33.com<BR><B>Sent: </B>Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:21:03 P=
M<BR><B>Subject: </B>frers-list digest, Vol 1 #595 - 4 msgs<BR><BR>Send fre=
rs-list mailing list submissions to<BR> =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR><BR>To subscribe or unsubscribe=
via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>  =
; http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list<BR>or, via emai=
l, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>  =
; frers-list-request@lists.frers33.com<BR><BR>You ca=
n reach the person managing the list at<BR> &n=
bsp; frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com<BR><BR>When replying, pl=
ease edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>than "Re: Contents of=
frers-list digest..."<BR><BR><BR>Today's
Topics:<BR><BR> 1. ECSA class rating (Edgar Smith)<BR> &n=
bsp; 2. Re: ECSA class rating (FRANCIS ALBERT)<BR> 3. Re: ECSA =
class rating (William Thompson)<BR> 4. Re: ECSA class rating (S=
cott Marino)<BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 1<BR>From: Edgar Smith &=
lt;edgar@geomatrixproductions.com><BR>Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 11:10:47 -0=
500<BR>To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR>Subject: [frers-list]ECSA class =
rating<BR>Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR><BR><BR>--Apple-Mail-2-=
-688990298<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR>Content-Type: =
text/plain;<BR> charset=3Dus=
-ascii<BR><BR>The ECSA is reviewing the ratings of a number of boats at the=
ir next =3D<BR>meeting on January 22, 2013. I'm told that this is a fairly =
routine =3D<BR>review of boats/classes that have done well in the previous =
season, but =3D<BR>the review can sometimes result in an adjustment of up t=
o
3 seconds/mile =3D<BR>for the class. I believe that the Frers 33 is fairly=
rated in Eastern =3D<BR>Long Island Sound at 108/129 and plan to go to the=
meeting to present =3D<BR>evidence to support this and insure we don't get=
an unwarranted negative =3D<BR>rating adjustment.=3D20<BR><BR>The Frers 33=
has done well in the results, but if you look at the boats =3D<BR>in our d=
ivision who raced more than 2 or more races in 2011, (21 boats) =3D<BR>the =
Frers 33s are well distributed across the group 1, 2, 6, 9, 13, 21. =3D<BR>=
I think this shows mainly that there are far more Frers 33s racing and =3D<=
BR>doing more races than any other boat type in Div 1. The same story holds=
=3D<BR>for the ECSA overall results at 2, 18, 41, 47, 75, 108, 116. In ove=
rall =3D<BR>standings boats in the class average 58th among 116 boats racin=
g 2 or =3D<BR>more races, exactly in the 50th percentile. This compares wit=
h other =3D<BR>competitive boats with better averages such as the J-27 with=
an average
=3D<BR>finish 52nd, the Tripp 36 average finish 55th, the Evelyn 32-2 with=
and =3D<BR>average finish of 57th.=3D20<BR><BR>I'm also working on a graph=
of two years of races in Pachyderm vs. the =3D<BR>two previous two years i=
n our J-29 Wasabi using the recorded results for =3D<BR>the Branford summer=
series. I think this should be an objective way of =3D<BR>separating out a=
ll other factors to compare the ratings of the the J-29 =3D<BR>Frac vs the =
Frers 33. The J-29 fractional rating is not under review. At =3D<BR>first l=
ook, I think I can show that our performance against others in =3D<BR>nearl=
y 30 races in each boat remained unchanged, suggesting the ratings =3D<BR>w=
ere commensurate. (In fact, if anything the Frers 33 rating is a =3D<=
BR>little tougher)<BR><BR>I'd like to collect other supporting data such as=
IRC ratings, PHRF =3D<BR>ratings in other regions and any other ideas for =
presenting our case =3D<BR>from the fleet.=3D20<BR><BR>Edgar
Smith<BR>Pachyderm=3D<BR><BR>--Apple-Mail-2--688990298<BR>Content-Transfer=
-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR>Content-Type: text/html;<BR> &nbs=
p; charset=3Dus-ascii<BR><BR>&lt;html>&=
amp;lt;head>&lt;/head>&lt;body style=3D3D"word-wrap: break-wo=
rd; =3D<BR>-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;=
">The =3D<BR>ECSA is reviewing the ratings of a number of boats at thei=
r next meeting =3D<BR>on January 22, 2013. I'm told that this is a fairly r=
outine review of =3D<BR>boats/classes that have done well in the previous s=
eason, but the review =3D<BR>can sometimes result in an adjustment of up to=
3 seconds/mile for the =3D<BR>class.&nbsp;I believe that the Frers 33 =
is fairly rated in Eastern Long =3D<BR>Island Sound at 108/129 and&nbsp=
;plan to go to the meeting to present =3D<BR>evidence to support this and i=
nsure we don't get an unwarranted negative =3D<BR>rating
adjustment.&nbsp;&lt;div>&lt;br>&lt;/div>&lt;=
div>The Frers 33 has done well =3D<BR>in the results, but if you look at=
the boats in our division who raced =3D<BR>more than 2 or more races in 20=
11, (21 boats) the Frers 33s are well =3D<BR>distributed across the group 1=
, 2, 6, 9, 13, 21.&nbsp;I think this shows =3D<BR>mainly that there are=
far more Frers 33s racing and doing more races =3D<BR>than any other boat =
type in Div 1. The same story holds for the ECSA =3D<BR>overall results at =
2, 18, 41, 47, 75, 108, 116. In overall standings =3D<BR>boats in the class=
average 58th among 116 boats racing 2 or more races, =3D<BR>exactly in the=
50th percentile. This compares with other competitive =3D<BR>boats with be=
tter averages such as the&nbsp;J-27 with an average finish =3D<BR>52nd,=
&nbsp;the Tripp 36 average finish 55th,&nbsp;the Evelyn 32-2 with =
=3D<BR>and average finish of
57th.&nbsp;&lt;/div>&lt;div>&lt;div>&lt;br>=
;&lt;/div>&lt;div>I'm also =3D<BR>working on a graph of two y=
ears of races in Pachyderm vs. the two =3D<BR>previous two years in our J-2=
9 Wasabi using the recorded results for the =3D<BR>Branford summer series. =
I think this should be an objective way of =3D<BR>separating out all other =
factors to compare the ratings of the the J-29 =3D<BR>Frac vs the Frers 33.=
The J-29 fractional rating is not under review. At =3D<BR>first look, I th=
ink I can show that our performance against others in =3D<BR>nearly 30 race=
s in each boat remained unchanged, suggesting the ratings =3D<BR>were comme=
nsurate. &nbsp;(In fact, if anything the Frers 33 rating is a =3D<BR>li=
ttle tougher)&lt;/div>&lt;div>&lt;br>&lt;/div>&=
amp;lt;div>&lt;div>&lt;div>I'd like to collect =3D<BR>othe=
r supporting data such as IRC ratings, PHRF ratings in other regions =3D<BR=
>and any other
ideas for presenting our case from the =3D<BR>fleet.&nbsp;&lt;/div=
>&lt;div>&lt;br>&lt;div>&lt;div><BR>&lt;=
span class=3D3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D3D"border-collapse: separate; =3D=
<BR>color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; =3D<BR>f=
ont-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =3D<BR>li=
ne-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =3D<B=
R>0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
=3D<BR>0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =3D<BR>-webkit-border-v=
ertical-spacing: 0px; =3D<BR>-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -web=
kit-text-size-adjust: =3D<BR>auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-siz=
e: medium; ">&lt;span =3D<BR>class=3D3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D3D=
"border-collapse: separate; color: =3D<BR>rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant: norma=
l; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =3D<BR>normal; orphans: 2; text-ind=
ent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: =3D<BR>normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-bo=
rder-horizontal-spacing: =3D<BR>0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
=3D<BR>-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
=3D<BR>auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">&lt;div style=3D3D"wo=
rd-wrap: =3D<BR>break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
=3D<BR>after-white-space; ">&lt;span class=3D3D"Apple-style-span" =
=3D<BR>style=3D3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-vari=
ant: =3D<BR>normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2=
; =3D<BR>text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widow=
s: 2; =3D<BR>word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =3D=
<BR>-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =3D<BR>-webkit-text-decorations-i=
n-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =3D<BR>auto; -webkit-text-stroke-=
width: 0px; ">&lt;div style=3D3D"word-wrap: =3D<BR>break-word; -webk=
it-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: =3D<BR>after-white-space; ">&lt;font class=3D3D=
"Apple-style-span" =3D<BR>face=3D3D"Arial">&lt;div>Edgar =3D<BR>S=
mith&lt;/div>&lt;div>Pachyderm&lt;/div>&lt;/font&g=
t;&lt;/div>&lt;/span>&lt;/div>&lt;/span>&lt=
;/span>&lt;/d=3D<BR>iv>&lt;/div>&lt;/div>&lt;/d=
iv>&lt;/div>&lt;/div>&lt;/body>&lt;/html>=3D=
<BR><BR>--Apple-Mail-2--688990298--<BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 2=
<BR>Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 14:15:20 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: FRANCIS ALBERT &am=
p;lt;fxalbert@prodigy.net><BR>Subject: Re: [frers-list]ECSA class rating=
<BR>To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR>Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.=
com<BR><BR>---643335624-2068849514-1353449720=3D:24309<BR>Content-Type: tex=
t/plain; charset=3Diso-8859-1<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printabl=
e<BR><BR>Edgar,<BR>=3DA0<BR>PHRF of the Chesapeake rates the Frers 33 at 11=
4 which is a
difficult ratin=3D<BR>g to sail to.=3DA0 I do okay but we sail the=3DA0hec=
k out of that boat and the =3D<BR>crew work is impeccable.<BR>=3DA0=3D20<BR=
>=3DA0<BR>Thanks,<BR>Frank Albert<BR>RELENTLESS<BR><BR>--- On Tue, 11/20/12=
, Edgar Smith &lt;edgar@geomatrixproductions.com> wrote:<BR><BR><BR>=
From: Edgar Smith &lt;edgar@geomatrixproductions.com><BR>Subject: [f=
rers-list]ECSA class rating<BR>To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR>Date: Tu=
esday, November 20, 2012, 11:10 AM<BR><BR><BR><BR>The ECSA is reviewing the=
ratings of a number of boats at their next meetin=3D<BR>g on January 22, 2=
013. I'm told that this is a fairly routine review of boa=3D<BR>ts/classes =
that have done well in the previous season, but the review can s=3D<BR>omet=
imes result in an adjustment of up to 3 seconds/mile for the class.=3DA0I=
=3D<BR> believe that the Frers 33 is fairly rated in Eastern Long Isla=
nd Sound at =3D<BR>108/129 and=3DA0plan to go to the meeting to present evi=
dence to support
this=3D<BR> and insure we don't get an unwarranted negative rating ad=
justment.=3DA0=3D20<BR><BR><BR>The Frers 33 has done well in the results, b=
ut if you look at the boats in =3D<BR>our division who raced more than 2 or=
more races in 2011, (21 boats) the Fr=3D<BR>ers 33s are well distributed a=
cross the group 1, 2, 6, 9, 13, 21.=3DA0I think=3D<BR> this shows main=
ly that there are far more Frers 33s racing and doing more =3D<BR>races tha=
n any other boat type in Div 1. The same story holds for the ECSA =3D<BR>ov=
erall results at 2, 18, 41, 47, 75, 108, 116. In overall standings boats =
=3D<BR>in the class average 58th among 116 boats racing 2 or more races, ex=
actly i=3D<BR>n the 50th percentile. This compares with other competitive b=
oats with bett=3D<BR>er averages such as the=3DA0J-27 with an average finis=
h 52nd,=3DA0the Tripp 36 =3D<BR>average finish 55th,=3DA0the Evelyn 32-2 wi=
th and average finish of 57th.=3DA0<BR><BR><BR><BR>I'm also working on a gr=
aph of two years of races in
Pachyderm vs. the two =3D<BR>previous two years in our J-29 Wasabi using t=
he recorded results for the Br=3D<BR>anford summer series. I think this sho=
uld be an objective way of separating=3D<BR> out all other factors to =
compare the ratings of the the J-29 Frac vs the F=3D<BR>rers 33. The J-29 f=
ractional rating is not under review. At first look, I t=3D<BR>hink I can s=
how that our performance against others in nearly 30 races in e=3D<BR>ach b=
oat remained unchanged, suggesting the ratings were commensurate. =3DA0(=3D=
<BR>In fact, if anything the Frers 33 rating is a little tougher)<BR><BR><B=
R><BR><BR>I'd like to collect other supporting data such as IRC ratings, PH=
RF ratings=3D<BR> in other regions and any other ideas for presenting =
our case from the flee=3D<BR>t.=3DA0<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Edgar Smith=
<BR>Pachyderm<BR>---643335624-2068849514-1353449720=3D:24309<BR>Content-Typ=
e: text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable<BR><BR>&lt;table cellspacing=3D3D"0" cellpadding=3D3D=
"0" border=3D3D"0" >&lt;tr>&lt;td valign=3D3D"=3D<BR>top" sty=
le=3D3D"font: inherit;">&lt;DIV>Edgar,&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt=
;DIV>&nbsp;&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>PHRF of the Chesapeake=
rates the Frers 33 at 114 which is a difficult =3D<BR>rating to sail to.&a=
mp;nbsp; I do okay but we sail the&nbsp;heck out of that bo=3D<BR>at an=
d the crew work is impeccable.&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>&nbsp;=
&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>&nbsp;&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;D=
IV>Thanks,&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>Frank Albert&lt;/DIV>=
;<BR>&lt;DIV>RELENTLESS&lt;BR>&lt;BR>--- On &lt;B&=
gt;Tue, 11/20/12, Edgar Smith &lt;I>&lt;edgar@ge=3D<BR>omatrixpr=
oductions.com&gt;&lt;/I>&lt;/B> wrote:&lt;BR>&=
lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2p=
x solid;
PADDING-LEFT: 5=3D<BR>px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px">&lt;BR>From: Edgar S=
mith &lt;edgar@geomatrixproductions.=3D<BR>com&gt;&lt;BR>Sub=
ject: [&lt;SPAN>frers&lt;/SPAN>-list]ECSA class rating&lt=
;BR>To: frers=3D<BR>-list@lists.frers33.com&lt;BR>Date: Tuesday, =
November 20, 2012, 11:10 AM&lt;BR>&lt;B=3D<BR>R><BR>&lt;D=
IV id=3D3Dyiv249185265><BR>&lt;DIV>The ECSA is reviewing the rati=
ngs of a number of boats at their next m=3D<BR>eeting on January 22, 2013. =
I'm told that this is a fairly routine review o=3D<BR>f boats/classes that =
have done well in the previous season, but the review =3D<BR>can sometimes =
result in an adjustment of up to 3 seconds/mile for the class=3D<BR>.&n=
bsp;I believe that the Frers 33 is fairly rated in Eastern Long Island S=3D=
<BR>ound at 108/129 and&nbsp;plan to go to the meeting to present evide=
nce to s=3D<BR>upport this and insure we don't get an unwarranted negative =
rating
adjustme=3D<BR>nt.&nbsp;=3D20<BR>&lt;DIV>&lt;BR>&lt;=
/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>The Frers 33 has done well in the results, but i=
f you look at the boat=3D<BR>s in our division who raced more than 2 or mor=
e races in 2011, (21 boats) t=3D<BR>he Frers 33s are well distributed acros=
s the group 1, 2, 6, 9, 13, 21.&nbsp=3D<BR>;I think this shows mainly t=
hat there are far more Frers 33s racing and doi=3D<BR>ng more races than an=
y other boat type in Div 1. The same story holds for t=3D<BR>he ECSA overal=
l results at 2, 18, 41, 47, 75, 108, 116. In overall standing=3D<BR>s boats=
in the class average 58th among 116 boats racing 2 or more races, e=3D<BR>=
xactly in the 50th percentile. This compares with other competitive boats w=
=3D<BR>ith better averages such as the&nbsp;J-27 with an average finish=
52nd,&nbsp=3D<BR>;the Tripp 36 average finish 55th,&nbsp;the Evely=
n 32-2 with and average fi=3D<BR>nish of
57th.&nbsp;&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>&=
lt;BR>&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>I'm also working on a graph of =
two years of races in Pachyderm vs. the=3D<BR> two previous two years =
in our J-29 Wasabi using the recorded results for t=3D<BR>he Branford summe=
r series. I think this should be an objective way of separ=3D<BR>ating out =
all other factors to compare the ratings of the the J-29 Frac vs =3D<BR>the=
Frers 33. The J-29 fractional rating is not under review. At first look=3D=
<BR>, I think I can show that our performance against others in nearly 30 r=
aces=3D<BR> in each boat remained unchanged, suggesting the ratings we=
re commensurate.=3D<BR> &nbsp;(In fact, if anything the Frers 33 r=
ating is a little tougher)&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>&lt;BR>=
&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV><BR>&lt;DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>I'=
d like to collect other supporting data such as IRC ratings, PHRF ra=3D<BR>=
tings in
other regions and any other ideas for presenting our case from the=3D<BR>&=
nbsp;fleet.&nbsp;&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>&lt;BR><BR>&=
amp;lt;DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>&lt;SPAN style=3D3D"WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TR=
ANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORD=3D<BR>ER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: me=
dium Verdana; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: =3D<BR>2; LETTER-SPACING: norma=
l; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=3D3Dyi=3D<BR>v249185265Apple=
-style-span>&lt;SPAN style=3D3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; T=3D=
<BR>EXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COL=
LAPS=3D<BR>E: separate; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: no=
rmal; COLOR=3D<BR>: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=3D3Dyiv249185265Ap=
ple-style-span><BR>&lt;DIV style=3D3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word">&=
;lt;SPAN style=3D3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WI=3D<BR>DOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: =
none; FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORD=3D<BR>ER-COLLAPSE: separ=
ate; WHITE-SPACE:
normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: nor=3D<BR>mal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD=
-SPACING: 0px" class=3D3Dyiv249185265Apple-style-=3D<BR>span><BR>&lt=
;DIV style=3D3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word">&lt;FONT class=3D3Dyiv2491852=
65Apple-style-=3D<BR>span face=3D3DArial><BR>&lt;DIV>Edgar Smith&=
amp;lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>Pachyderm&lt;/DIV>&lt;/FONT>=
;&lt;/DIV>&lt;/SPAN>&lt;/DIV>&lt;/SPAN>&lt;=
/SPAN>&lt;/DIV>&lt;/DIV>&lt;/D=3D<BR>IV>&lt;/DI=
V>&lt;/DIV>&lt;/DIV>&lt;/DIV>&lt;/DIV>&l=
t;/BLOCKQUOTE>&lt;/td>&lt;/tr>&lt;/table><BR>---643=
335624-2068849514-1353449720=3D:24309--<BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 3=
<BR>Cc: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" &lt;frers-list@lists.frers33.com=
><BR>From: William Thompson &lt;foredeck@videotron.ca><BR>Subject=
: Re: [frers-list]ECSA class rating<BR>Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:31:32 -050=
0<BR>To:
"frers-list@lists.frers33.com" &lt;frers-list@lists.frers33.com><BR=
>Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR><BR><BR>--Boundary_(ID_tR3sjQBV9=
Wic6t0+R9DkzQ)<BR>Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=3DUS-ASCII<BR>Content-t=
ransfer-encoding: 7BIT<BR><BR>I race at 114 in Montreal, with a keel shorte=
ned to 5'8" and a bulb making an additional 180 lb over the original keel w=
eight. The St Lawrence Valley Yacht Racing Assoc. said they were giving me =
3 sec. a mile over the 111 they would have assigned unmodified.<BR><BR>Will=
iam Thompson<BR>Sent from my iPad<BR><BR>On 2012-11-20, at 5:15 PM, FRANCIS=
ALBERT &lt;fxalbert@prodigy.net> wrote:<BR><BR>> <BR>> Edgar,=
<BR>> <BR>> PHRF of the Chesapeake rates the Frers 33 at 114 wh=
ich is a difficult rating to sail to. I do okay but we sail the heck =
out of that boat and the crew work is impeccable.<BR>> <BR>> &n=
bsp;<BR>> Thanks,<BR>> Frank Albert<BR>> RELENTLESS<BR>>
<BR>> --- On Tue, 11/20/12, Edgar Smith &lt;edgar@geomatrixproducti=
ons.com> wrote:<BR>> <BR>> From: Edgar Smith &lt;edgar@geomatr=
ixproductions.com><BR>> Subject: [frers-list]ECSA class rating<BR>>=
; To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR>> Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012=
, 11:10 AM<BR>> <BR>> The ECSA is reviewing the ratings of a number o=
f boats at their next meeting on January 22, 2013. I'm told that this is a =
fairly routine review of boats/classes that have done well in the previous =
season, but the review can sometimes result in an adjustment of up to 3 sec=
onds/mile for the class. I believe that the Frers 33 is fairly rated in Eas=
tern Long Island Sound at 108/129 and plan to go to the meeting to present =
evidence to support this and insure we don't get an unwarranted negative ra=
ting adjustment. <BR>> <BR>> The Frers 33 has done well in the result=
s, but if you look at the boats in our division who raced more than
2 or more races in 2011, (21 boats) the Frers 33s are well distributed acr=
oss the group 1, 2, 6, 9, 13, 21. I think this shows mainly that there are =
far more Frers 33s racing and doing more races than any other boat type in =
Div 1. The same story holds for the ECSA overall results at 2, 18, 41, 47, =
75, 108, 116. In overall standings boats in the class average 58th among 11=
6 boats racing 2 or more races, exactly in the 50th percentile. This compar=
es with other competitive boats with better averages such as the J-27 with =
an average finish 52nd, the Tripp 36 average finish 55th, the Evelyn 32-2 w=
ith and average finish of 57th. <BR>> <BR>> I'm also working on a gra=
ph of two years of races in Pachyderm vs. the two previous two years in our=
J-29 Wasabi using the recorded results for the Branford summer series. I t=
hink this should be an objective way of separating out all other factors to=
compare the ratings of the the J-29 Frac vs the Frers 33. The J-29
fractional rating is not under review. At first look, I think I can show t=
hat our performance against others in nearly 30 races in each boat remained=
unchanged, suggesting the ratings were commensurate. (In fact, if an=
ything the Frers 33 rating is a little tougher)<BR>> <BR>> I'd like t=
o collect other supporting data such as IRC ratings, PHRF ratings in other =
regions and any other ideas for presenting our case from the fleet. <BR>>=
; <BR>> Edgar Smith<BR>> Pachyderm<BR><BR>--Boundary_(ID_tR3sjQBV9Wic=
6t0+R9DkzQ)<BR>Content-type: text/html; CHARSET=3DUS-ASCII<BR>Content-trans=
fer-encoding: 7BIT<BR><BR>&lt;html>&lt;head>&lt;meta http=
-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">&lt;/=
head>&lt;body dir=3D"auto">&lt;div>I race at 114 in Montre=
al, with a keel shortened to 5'8" and a bulb making an additional 180 lb ov=
er the original keel weight. The St Lawrence Valley Yacht Racing Assoc. sai=
d
they were giving me 3 sec. a mile over the 111 they would have assigned un=
modified.&lt;br>&lt;br>William Thompson&lt;div>Sent fr=
om my iPad&lt;/div>&lt;/div>&lt;div>&lt;br>On 2=
012-11-20, at 5:15 PM, FRANCIS ALBERT &lt;&lt;a href=3D"mailto:fxal=
bert@prodigy.net">fxalbert@prodigy.net&lt;/a>&gt; wrote:&=
lt;br>&lt;br>&lt;/div>&lt;blockquote type=3D"cite">=
&lt;div>&lt;table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"=
0">&lt;tbody>&lt;tr>&lt;td valign=3D"top" style=3D"fon=
t: inherit;">&lt;div>Edgar,&lt;/div><BR>&lt;div>&am=
p;nbsp;&lt;/div><BR>&lt;div>PHRF of the Chesapeake rates the =
Frers 33 at 114 which is a difficult rating to sail to.&nbsp; I do okay=
but we sail the&nbsp;heck out of that boat and the crew work is impecc=
able.&lt;/div><BR>&lt;div>&nbsp;
&lt;/div><BR>&lt;div>&nbsp;&lt;/div><BR>&lt;d=
iv>Thanks,&lt;/div><BR>&lt;div>Frank Albert&lt;/div>=
;<BR>&lt;div>RELENTLESS&lt;br>&lt;br>--- On &lt;b&=
gt;Tue, 11/20/12, Edgar Smith &lt;i>&lt;&lt;a href=3D"mailto=
:edgar@geomatrixproductions.com">edgar@geomatrixproductions.com&lt;/=
a>&gt;&lt;/i>&lt;/b> wrote:&lt;br>&lt;/div&=
gt;<BR>&lt;blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; P=
ADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px">&lt;br>From: Edgar Smith &=
;lt;&lt;a href=3D"mailto:edgar@geomatrixproductions.com">edgar@geoma=
trixproductions.com&lt;/a>&gt;&lt;br>Subject: [&lt;sp=
an>frers&lt;/span>-list]ECSA class rating&lt;br>To: &l=
t;a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com">frers-list@lists.frers3=
3.com&lt;/a>&lt;br>Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 11:10
AM&lt;br>&lt;br><BR>&lt;div id=3D"yiv249185265"><BR>&=
amp;lt;div>The ECSA is reviewing the ratings of a number of boats at the=
ir next meeting on January 22, 2013. I'm told that this is a fairly routine=
review of boats/classes that have done well in the previous season, but th=
e review can sometimes result in an adjustment of up to 3 seconds/mile for =
the class.&nbsp;I believe that the Frers 33 is fairly rated in Eastern =
Long Island Sound at 108/129 and&nbsp;plan to go to the meeting to pres=
ent evidence to support this and insure we don't get an unwarranted negativ=
e rating adjustment.&nbsp; <BR>&lt;div>&lt;br>&lt;/di=
v><BR>&lt;div>The Frers 33 has done well in the results, but if y=
ou look at the boats in our division who raced more than 2 or more races in=
2011, (21 boats) the Frers 33s are well distributed across the group 1, 2,=
6, 9, 13, 21.&nbsp;I think this shows mainly that there are far
more Frers 33s racing and doing more races than any other boat type in Div=
1. The same story holds for the ECSA overall results at 2, 18, 41, 47, 75,=
108, 116. In overall standings boats in the class average 58th among 116 b=
oats racing 2 or more races, exactly in the 50th percentile. This compares =
with other competitive boats with better averages such as the&nbsp;J-27=
with an average finish 52nd,&nbsp;the Tripp 36 average finish 55th,&am=
p;nbsp;the Evelyn 32-2 with and average finish of 57th.&nbsp;&lt;/d=
iv><BR>&lt;div><BR>&lt;div>&lt;br>&lt;/div><=
BR>&lt;div>I'm also working on a graph of two years of races in Pach=
yderm vs. the two previous two years in our J-29 Wasabi using the recorded =
results for the Branford summer series. I think this should be an objective=
way of separating out all other factors to compare the ratings of the the =
J-29 Frac vs the Frers 33. The J-29 fractional rating is not under
review. At first look, I think I can show that our performance against oth=
ers in nearly 30 races in each boat remained unchanged, suggesting the rati=
ngs were commensurate. &nbsp;(In fact, if anything the Frers 33 rating =
is a little tougher)&lt;/div><BR>&lt;div>&lt;br>&l=
t;/div><BR>&lt;div><BR>&lt;div><BR>&lt;div>I'd like=
to collect other supporting data such as IRC ratings, PHRF ratings in othe=
r regions and any other ideas for presenting our case from the fleet.&n=
bsp;&lt;/div><BR>&lt;div>&lt;br><BR>&lt;div><BR=
>&lt;div>&lt;span style=3D"WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT=
-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Verdana; WHITE-SPACE:=
normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACIN=
G: 0px" class=3D"yiv249185265Apple-style-span">&lt;span style=3D"LIN=
E-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-VARIANT: normal;
TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS:=
2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=3D"=
yiv249185265Apple-style-span"><BR>&lt;div style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-=
word">&lt;span style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFO=
RM: none; FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate=
; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0=
); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=3D"yiv249185265Apple-style-span"><BR>&lt=
;div style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word">&lt;font class=3D"yiv249185265A=
pple-style-span" face=3D"Arial"><BR>&lt;div>Edgar
Smith&lt;/div><BR>&lt;div>Pachyderm&lt;/div>&lt;/=
font>&lt;/div>&lt;/span>&lt;/div>&lt;/span>&=
amp;lt;/span>&lt;/div>&lt;/div>&lt;/div>&lt;/di=
v>&lt;/div>&lt;/div>&lt;/div>&lt;/div>&l=
t;/blockquote>&lt;/td>&lt;/tr>&lt;/tbody>&lt;/t=
able>&lt;/div>&lt;/blockquote>&lt;/body>&lt;/ht=
ml><BR><BR>--Boundary_(ID_tR3sjQBV9Wic6t0+R9DkzQ)--<BR><BR>--__--__--<BR=
><BR>Message: 4<BR>Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 19:19:03 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Sco=
tt Marino &lt;scottamarino@yahoo.com><BR>Subject: Re: [frers-list]EC=
SA class rating<BR>To: "frers-list@lists.frers33.com" &lt;frers-list@li=
sts.frers33.com><BR>Reply-To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR><BR>---375=
072337-321145529-1353467943=3D:8112<BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D=
iso-8859-1<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>Don't
sail here, it's worse...=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A______________________________=
__=3D<BR>=3D0AFrom: FRANCIS ALBERT &lt;fxalbert@prodigy.net>=3D0ATo:=
frers-list@lists.frers=3D<BR>33.com =3D0ASent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 =
5:15 PM=3D0ASubject: Re: [frers-li=3D<BR>st]ECSA class rating=3D0A=3D0AEdga=
r,=3D0A=3D0APHRF of the Chesapeake rates the Frer=3D<BR>s 33 at 114 which i=
s a difficult rating to sail to.=3DA0 I do okay but we sai=3D<BR>l the=3DA0=
heck out of that boat and the crew work is impeccable.=3D0A=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0A=
=3D<BR>Thanks,=3D0AFrank Albert=3D0ARELENTLESS--- On Tue, 11/20/12, Edgar S=
mith &lt;edgar=3D<BR>@geomatrixproductions.com> wrote:=3D0A=3D0A>=
From: Edgar Smith &lt;edgar@geomatrixp=3D<BR>roductions.com>=3D0A>=
;Subject: [frers-list]ECSA class rating=3D0A>To: frers-list=3D<BR>@lists=
.frers33.com=3D0A>Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 11:10 AM=3D0A>=3D=
0A>=3D0A=3D<BR>>The ECSA is reviewing the ratings of a number of boat=
s at their next meeti=3D<BR>ng on January 22, 2013. I'm told that this
is a fairly routine review of bo=3D<BR>ats/classes that have done well in =
the previous season, but the review can =3D<BR>sometimes result in an adjus=
tment of up to 3 seconds/mile for the class.=3DA0=3D<BR>I believe that the =
Frers 33 is fairly rated in Eastern Long Island Sound at=3D<BR> 108/12=
9 and=3DA0plan to go to the meeting to present evidence to support thi=3D<B=
R>s and insure we don't get an unwarranted negative rating adjustment.=3DA0=
=3D0A=3D<BR>>The Frers 33 has done well in the results, but if you look=
at the boats in=3D<BR> our division who raced more than 2 or more rac=
es in 2011, (21 boats) the F=3D<BR>rers 33s are well distributed across the=
group 1, 2, 6, 9, 13, 21.=3DA0I thin=3D<BR>k this shows mainly that there =
are far more Frers 33s racing and doing more=3D<BR> races than any oth=
er boat type in Div 1. The same story holds for the ECSA=3D<BR> overal=
l results at 2, 18, 41, 47, 75, 108, 116. In overall standings boats=3D<BR>=
in the class average
58th among 116 boats racing 2 or more races, exactly =3D<BR>in the 50th pe=
rcentile. This compares with other competitive boats with bet=3D<BR>ter ave=
rages such as the=3DA0J-27 with an average finish 52nd,=3DA0the Tripp 36=3D=
<BR> average finish 55th,=3DA0the Evelyn 32-2 with and average finish =
of 57th.=3DA0=3D<BR>=3D0A>I'm also working on a graph of two years of ra=
ces in Pachyderm vs. the =3D<BR>two previous two years in our J-29 Wasabi u=
sing the recorded results for th=3D<BR>e Branford summer series. I think th=
is should be an objective way of separa=3D<BR>ting out all other factors to=
compare the ratings of the the J-29 Frac vs t=3D<BR>he Frers 33. The J-29 =
fractional rating is not under review. At first look,=3D<BR> I think I=
can show that our performance against others in nearly 30 races =3D<BR>in =
each boat remained unchanged, suggesting the ratings were commensurate. =3D=
<BR>=3DA0(In fact, if anything the Frers 33 rating is a little tougher)=3D0=
A>I'd li=3D<BR>ke to collect
other supporting data such as IRC ratings, PHRF ratings in ot=3D<BR>her re=
gions and any other ideas for presenting our case from the fleet.=3DA0=3D<B=
R>=3D0A>Edgar Smith=3D0A>Pachyderm <BR>---375072337-321145529-1353467=
943=3D:8112<BR>Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1<BR>Content-Tra=
nsfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>&lt;html>&lt;body>&am=
p;lt;div style=3D3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:ti=3D<BR=
>mes new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">&lt;div style=
=3D3D"RIGHT: =3D<BR>auto">&lt;SPAN style=3D3D"RIGHT: auto">Don't =
sail here, it's worse...&lt;VAR id=3D3Dy=3D<BR>ui-ie-cursor>&lt;=
/VAR>&lt;BR style=3D3D"RIGHT: auto" class=3D3Dyui-cursor>&lt;=
/SPAN>&lt;/di=3D<BR>v><BR>&lt;div>&lt;BR>&lt;/d=
iv><BR>&lt;DIV style=3D3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, ti=
mes, serif; FONT-SI=3D<BR>ZE: 12pt"><BR>&lt;DIV style=3D3D"FONT-FAMI=
LY: times new roman, new york,
times, serif; FONT-SI=3D<BR>ZE: 12pt"><BR>&lt;DIV dir=3D3Dltr>&a=
mp;lt;FONT size=3D3D2 face=3D3DArial><BR>&lt;DIV style=3D3D"BORDER-B=
OTTOM: #ccc 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; P=3D<BR>ADDING-BOTTOM: =
0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; MARGIN: 5px 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PAD=3D<BR>DING-RIG=
HT: 0px; HEIGHT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: #ccc 1px solid; B=3D<BR>O=
RDER-RIGHT: #ccc 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 0px" class=3D3Dhr contentEditable=
=3D<BR>=3D3Dfalse readonly=3D3D"true">&lt;/DIV>&lt;B>&=
lt;SPAN style=3D3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:=3D<BR>&lt;/SPAN>&=
lt;/B> FRANCIS ALBERT &lt;fxalbert@prodigy.net&gt;&lt;BR>=
&lt;B>&lt;SPAN style=3D<BR>=3D3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:&l=
t;/SPAN>&lt;/B> frers-list@lists.frers33.com &lt;BR>&l=
t;B>&lt;=3D<BR>SPAN style=3D3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:&lt;/S=
PAN>&lt;/B> Tuesday, November 20, 201=3D<BR>2 5:15 PM&lt;BR&g=
t;&lt;B>&lt;SPAN
style=3D3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:&lt;/SPAN>&lt;/B> R=
e: [=3D<BR>frers-list]ECSA class rating&lt;BR>&lt;/FONT>&=
lt;/DIV>&lt;WBR><BR>&lt;DIV id=3D3Dyiv989608804><BR>&l=
t;TABLE border=3D3D0 cellSpacing=3D3D0 cellPadding=3D3D0><BR>&lt;TBO=
DY><BR>&lt;TR><BR>&lt;TD vAlign=3D3Dtop><BR>&lt;DIV>=
;Edgar,&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>&nbsp;&lt;/DIV><BR>&am=
p;lt;DIV>PHRF of the Chesapeake rates the Frers 33 at 114 which is a dif=
ficult =3D<BR>rating to sail to.&nbsp; I do okay but we sail the&nb=
sp;heck out of that bo=3D<BR>at and the crew work is impeccable.&lt;/DI=
V><BR>&lt;DIV>&nbsp; &lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>&=
nbsp;&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>Thanks,&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;=
DIV>Frank Albert&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>RELENTLESS&lt;WBR=
>&lt;WBR>--- On &lt;B>Tue, 11/20/12, Edgar Smith
&lt;I>&lt;edgar@=3D<BR>geomatrixproductions.com&gt;&lt;=
/I>&lt;/B> wrote:&lt;WBR>&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;BLOCK=
QUOTE style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5=3D<=
BR>px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px">&lt;BR>From: Edgar Smith &lt;edgar@g=
eomatrixproductions.=3D<BR>com&gt;&lt;BR>Subject: [&lt;SPAN&=
gt;frers&lt;/SPAN>-list]ECSA class rating&lt;BR>To: frers=3D<=
BR>-list@lists.frers33.com&lt;BR>Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 1=
1:10 AM&lt;BR>&lt;B=3D<BR>R><BR>&lt;DIV id=3D3Dyiv9896088=
04><BR>&lt;DIV>The ECSA is reviewing the ratings of a number of b=
oats at their next m=3D<BR>eeting on January 22, 2013. I'm told that this i=
s a fairly routine review o=3D<BR>f boats/classes that have done well in th=
e previous season, but the review =3D<BR>can sometimes result in an adjustm=
ent of up to 3 seconds/mile for the class=3D<BR>.&nbsp;I believe that t=
he Frers 33 is
fairly rated in Eastern Long Island S=3D<BR>ound at 108/129 and&nbsp;p=
lan to go to the meeting to present evidence to s=3D<BR>upport this and ins=
ure we don't get an unwarranted negative rating adjustme=3D<BR>nt.&nbsp=
;=3D20<BR>&lt;DIV>&lt;WBR>&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>=
The Frers 33 has done well in the results, but if you look at the boat=3D<B=
R>s in our division who raced more than 2 or more races in 2011, (21 boats)=
t=3D<BR>he Frers 33s are well distributed across the group 1, 2, 6, 9, 13,=
21.&nbsp=3D<BR>;I think this shows mainly that there are far more Frer=
s 33s racing and doi=3D<BR>ng more races than any other boat type in Div 1.=
The same story holds for t=3D<BR>he ECSA overall results at 2, 18, 41, 47,=
75, 108, 116. In overall standing=3D<BR>s boats in the class average 58th =
among 116 boats racing 2 or more races, e=3D<BR>xactly in the 50th percenti=
le. This compares with other competitive boats w=3D<BR>ith better averages =
such as
the&nbsp;J-27 with an average finish 52nd,&nbsp=3D<BR>;the Tripp 3=
6 average finish 55th,&nbsp;the Evelyn 32-2 with and average fi=3D<BR>n=
ish of 57th.&nbsp;&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>=
;&lt;WBR>&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>I'm also working on a gr=
aph of two years of races in Pachyderm vs. the=3D<BR> two previous two=
years in our J-29 Wasabi using the recorded results for t=3D<BR>he Branfor=
d summer series. I think this should be an objective way of separ=3D<BR>ati=
ng out all other factors to compare the ratings of the the J-29 Frac vs =3D=
<BR>the Frers 33. The J-29 fractional rating is not under review. At first =
look=3D<BR>, I think I can show that our performance against others in near=
ly 30 races=3D<BR> in each boat remained unchanged, suggesting the rat=
ings were commensurate.=3D<BR> &nbsp;(In fact, if anything the Fre=
rs 33 rating is a little
tougher)&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>&lt;WBR>&lt;/DIV>=
<BR>&lt;DIV><BR>&lt;DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>I'd like to collec=
t other supporting data such as IRC ratings, PHRF ra=3D<BR>tings in other r=
egions and any other ideas for presenting our case from the=3D<BR> fle=
et.&nbsp;&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>&lt;WBR><BR>&lt;=
DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>&lt;SPAN style=3D3D"WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM=
: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORD=3D<BR>ER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Ve=
rdana; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: =3D<BR>2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLO=
R: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=3D3Dyi=3D<BR>v989608804Apple-style-=
span>&lt;SPAN style=3D3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2; T=3D<BR>EXT=
-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPS=3D=
<BR>E: separate; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; C=
OLOR=3D<BR>: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px"
class=3D3Dyiv989608804Apple-style-span><BR>&lt;DIV style=3D3D"WORD-=
WRAP: break-word">&lt;SPAN style=3D3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WI=3D<BR>=
DOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-VARIANT: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORD=
=3D<BR>ER-COLLAPSE: separate; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACI=
NG: nor=3D<BR>mal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=3D3Dyiv98960=
8804Apple-style-=3D<BR>span><BR>&lt;DIV style=3D3D"WORD-WRAP: break-=
word">&lt;FONT class=3D3Dyiv989608804Apple-style-=3D<BR>span face=3D=
3DArial><BR>&lt;DIV>Edgar
Smith&lt;/DIV><BR>&lt;DIV>Pachyderm&lt;/DIV>&lt;/=
FONT>&lt;/DIV>&lt;/SPAN>&lt;/DIV>&lt;/SPAN>&=
amp;lt;/SPAN>&lt;/DIV>&lt;/DIV>&lt;/D=3D<BR>IV>&=
;lt;/DIV>&lt;/DIV>&lt;/DIV>&lt;/DIV>&lt;/DIV>=
;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE>&lt;/TD>&lt;/TR>&lt;/TBODY>&am=
p;lt;/TABLE>&lt;/D=3D<BR>IV>&lt;WBR>&lt;WBR>&lt=
;/DIV>&lt;/DIV>&lt;/div>&lt;/body>&lt;/html>=
<BR>---375072337-321145529-1353467943=3D:8112--<BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><B=
R>_______________________________________________<BR>frers-list mailing lis=
t<BR>frers-list@lists.frers33.com<BR>http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listi=
nfo/frers-list<BR><BR><BR>End of frers-list Digest<BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></D=
IV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table>
---1654260983-998698336-1353515405=:9309--