[frers-list]My unique keel on hull #54

Thu, 12 Dec 2013 22:51:21 -0500

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you can remove the keel have a bracket made that will fit between the keel
and hull like a spacer and install the keel as low as you like.i'd make the
bracket hollow since it will have less righting moment and you have a bulb
at the end, you would end up with a stiffer better boat, now you need
bigger sail area and rigging.
oz.

On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Courtney Thomas <
courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> On 12/12/2013 3:34 PM, Bob Connell wrote:
>
>> Courtney, is the keel installed on the boat now or is it off? If it is
>> off can the boatyard weigh the keel or put it on a trailer and take it to a
>> scale.Moving companies or a truck stop will have scale.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Dec 12, 2013, at 7:13 AM, Arthur Kelley <akelley@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>  Courtney,
>>>
>>> Any photos?  I think it would be marvelous to document the differences.
>>> Perhaps an all-inclusive shot showing rudder and keel then close-ups of
>>> each.
>>>
>>> I haven't done all the math but if your rudder is 55" and your draft is
>>> 4'11" (59") I think the rudder is "just right". You don't want a rudder
>>> deeper than your keel because bad things may happen in a grounding.
>>>
>>> Art
>>>
>>>  On Dec 11, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Courtney Thomas <
>>>> courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> First, thanks to all who've responded to my attempts at sorting out
>>>> what I've got here in hull #54   :-)
>>>>
>>>> Rudder Concerns
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> __________________________________
>>>> #54's RUDDER's length is 55" which apparently is 5" less than the the
>>>> other boats rudders
>>>> which have been included in this ongoing discussion.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone know if this correlates with the following description of #54's
>>>> keel and it's 16" shortened length, or is an
>>>> improper and subsequent-to-construction-launch alteration ?
>>>>
>>>> Also, would not it have been appropriate to in fact increase the 4000#
>>>> ballast on the stock boat to compensate for
>>>> reduced draft and lever arm on #54 thus hopefully restoring at least
>>>> some lost stability and ease of motion ?
>>>>
>>>> Finally, the vertical-midpoint of the rudder's-forward-entry-width is
>>>> approximately 2", which I expected to have a finer entry. Comment  ?
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> ___________________________________
>>>> End of Rudder Concerns
>>>>
>>>> The boat's current storage location is not near my house but I took
>>>> yesterday to travel to
>>>> the yard to make measurements, which apparently vary from the stock
>>>> keel as follows:
>>>>
>>>> Keel Concerns
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> ___________________________________
>>>> Foot            16" wide at it's widest and tapers to almost a point
>>>> aft but has a less fine entry for'd, and IS apparently a          winged
>>>> keel as opposed to my former posts. I did not measure it's thickness but it
>>>> is multiplel inches,
>>>>                     thereby compensating for the reduced lever arm.
>>>>
>>>>                    At least part of my confusion regarding the keel is
>>>> that the former owner made misstatements
>>>>                    about #54's history, though I assume in ignorance
>>>> rather than intent.
>>>>                    Thanks to all in helping sort this out  as I'm in a
>>>> Frers doldrum down here in Savannah.
>>>>
>>>> Draft            I only approximated it to about 5' which does
>>>> correspond to the published figure of 4' 11" for the
>>>>                     winged keel version of a Frers33. Does anyone know
>>>> if there was another winged keel 33' built ?
>>>>
>>>> Foot Length  - approximately 5', yes 5', again compensating for the
>>>> reduced draft and ballast from the stock keel,
>>>>                          I assume.
>>>>
>>>> At this point I doubt the keel has actually been altered from what
>>>> Carroll Marine shipped, but
>>>> am open to refutation, and if that is the case, would welcome it.
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> ___________________________________
>>>> End of Keel Concerns
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Finally,  does anyone know anything about the history of this boat, #54
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> Most appreciatively,
>>>>
>>>> Courtney
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> frers-list mailing list
>>>> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>>> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> frers-list mailing list
>>> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>>> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> frers-list mailing list
>> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
>> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>>
>>  Bob,
>
> Thanks for your interest.
>
> The keel is now installed on the boat. The job was  done by the owner of
> Oasis Boatyard in St. Augustine, Fl. and
> cost a mini-fortune.
>
> At the date of purchase in Palm Beach, Fl., I was negligently
> insufficiently concerned about the keel's heritage, for
> reasons I won't bore you; not knowing among other things that it
> apparently was a one-of-a-kind. But, as you've probably already read, I'm
> now satisfied that it's lineage has not been compromised and is what I took
> it to be  :-)
>
> I will confess that, knowing what I now know, I definitely would have
> weighed the keel before installation. But I might indirectly infer it's
> weight by weighing the boat as is and comparing it's displacement with the
> standard and attribute any surplus to the keel. As far as I know, the keel
> is the only difference, but would be happy to be corrected.
>
> Finally, I would guess that it being unique, Barry Carroll might remember
> its details. If I knew he had the specifics on it I would certainly try to
> contact him, but would be surprised if that were so.
>
> Cordially,
>
>
> Courtney
> _______________________________________________
> frers-list mailing list
> frers-list@lists.frers33.com
> http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">you can remove the keel have a bracket made that will fit =
between the keel and hull like a spacer and install the keel as low as you =
like.i&#39;d make the bracket hollow since it will have less righting momen=
t and you have a bulb at the end, you would end up with a stiffer better bo=
at, now you need bigger sail area and rigging.<div>
oz.</div><div> </div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"> <div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Courtney Thomas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net" target=3D"_bl=
ank">courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net</a>&gt; wrote: 
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">On 1=
2/12/2013 3:34 PM, Bob Connell wrote: 
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Courtney, is the keel installed on the boat now or is it off? If it is off =
can the boatyard weigh the keel or put it on a trailer and take it to a sca=
le.Moving companies or a truck stop will have scale. 
 
Sent from my iPad 
 
On Dec 12, 2013, at 7:13 AM, Arthur Kelley &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:akelley@op=
tonline.net" target=3D"_blank">akelley@optonline.net</a>&gt; wrote: 
 
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Courtney, 
 
Any photos? =A0I think it would be marvelous to document the differences. P=
erhaps an all-inclusive shot showing rudder and keel then close-ups of each=
. 
 
I haven&#39;t done all the math but if your rudder is 55&quot; and your dra=
ft is 4&#39;11&quot; (59&quot;) I think the rudder is &quot;just right&quot=
;. You don&#39;t want a rudder deeper than your keel because bad things may=
 happen in a grounding.

Art 
 
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Dec 11, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Courtney Thomas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:courtne=
ycthomas@bellsouth.net" target=3D"_blank">courtneycthomas@bellsouth.net</a>=
&gt; wrote: 
 
First, thanks to all who&#39;ve responded to my attempts at sorting out wha=
t I&#39;ve got here in hull #54 =A0 :-) 
 
Rudder Concerns 
_____________________________________________________________=
_________________________________ 
#54&#39;s RUDDER&#39;s length is 55&quot; which apparently is 5&quot; less =
than the the other boats rudders 
which have been included in this ongoing discussion. 
 
Anyone know if this correlates with the following description of #54&#39;s =
keel and it&#39;s 16&quot; shortened length, or is an 
improper and subsequent-to-construction-launch alteration ? 
 
Also, would not it have been appropriate to in fact increase the 4000# ball=
ast on the stock boat to compensate for 
reduced draft and lever arm on #54 thus hopefully restoring at least some l=
ost stability and ease of motion ? 
 
Finally, the vertical-midpoint of the rudder&#39;s-forward-entry-width is a=
pproximately 2&quot;, which I expected to have a finer entry. Comment =A0? =
_____________________________________________________________=
__________________________________

End of Rudder Concerns 
 
The boat&#39;s current storage location is not near my house but I took yes=
terday to travel to 
the yard to make measurements, which apparently vary from the stock keel as=
 follows: 
 
Keel Concerns 
_____________________________________________________________=
__________________________________ 
Foot =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A016&quot; wide at it&#39;s widest and tapers to =
almost a point aft but has a less fine entry for&#39;d, and IS apparently a=
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0winged keel as opposed to my former posts. I did not me=
asure it&#39;s thickness but it is multiplel inches,

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 thereby compensating for the reduce=
d lever arm.<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0At least part of my confusion regard=
ing the keel is that the former owner made misstatements<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0about #54&#39;s history, though I as=
sume in ignorance rather than intent.<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Thanks to all in helping sort this o=
ut =A0as I&#39;m in a Frers doldrum down here in Savannah.<br>
<br>
Draft =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0I only approximated it to about 5&#39; which d=
oes correspond to the published figure of 4&#39; 11&quot; for the<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 winged keel version of a Frers33. D=
oes anyone know if there was another winged keel 33&#39; built ?<br>
<br>
Foot Length =A0- approximately 5&#39;, yes 5&#39;, again compensating for t=
he reduced draft and ballast from the stock keel,<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0I assume.<br>
<br>
At this point I doubt the keel has actually been altered from what Carroll =
Marine shipped, but<br>
am open to refutation, and if that is the case, would welcome it.<br>
______________________________<u></u>______________________________<u></u>_=
_____________________________<u></u>_____<br>
End of Keel Concerns<br>
<br>
<br>
Finally, =A0does anyone know anything about the history of this boat, #54 ?=
<br>
<br>
Most appreciatively,<br>
<br>
Courtney<br>
______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
frers-list mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com" target=3D"_blank">frers-lis=
t@lists.frers33.com</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list" target=3D"=
_blank">http://lists.frers33.com/<u></u>mailman/listinfo/frers-list</a><br>
</blockquote>
______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
frers-list mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com" target=3D"_blank">frers-lis=
t@lists.frers33.com</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list" target=3D"=
_blank">http://lists.frers33.com/<u></u>mailman/listinfo/frers-list</a><br>
</blockquote>
______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
frers-list mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com" target=3D"_blank">frers-lis=
t@lists.frers33.com</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list" target=3D"=
_blank">http://lists.frers33.com/<u></u>mailman/listinfo/frers-list</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>
Bob,<br>
<br>
Thanks for your interest.<br>
<br>
The keel is now installed on the boat. The job was =A0done by the owner of =
Oasis Boatyard in St. Augustine, Fl. and<br>
cost a mini-fortune.<br>
<br>
At the date of purchase in Palm Beach, Fl., I was negligently insufficientl=
y concerned about the keel&#39;s heritage, for<br>
reasons I won&#39;t bore you; not knowing among other things that it appare=
ntly was a one-of-a-kind. But, as you&#39;ve probably already read, I&#39;m=
 now satisfied that it&#39;s lineage has not been compromised and is what I=
 took it to be =A0:-)<br>

I will confess that, knowing what I now know, I definitely would have weigh=
ed the keel before installation. But I might indirectly infer it&#39;s weig=
ht by weighing the boat as is and comparing it&#39;s displacement with the =
standard and attribute any surplus to the keel. As far as I know, the keel =
is the only difference, but would be happy to be corrected.

Finally, I would guess that it being unique, Barry Carroll might remember i=
ts details. If I knew he had the specifics on it I would certainly try to c=
ontact him, but would be surprised if that were so. 
 
Cordially,<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"> 
 
Courtney 
_______________________________________________ 
frers-list mailing list 
<a href=3D"mailto:frers-list@lists.frers33.com" target=3D"_blank">frers-lis=
t@lists.frers33.com</a> 
<a href=3D"http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list" target=3D"=
_blank">http://lists.frers33.com/mailman/listinfo/frers-list</a> 
</div></div></blockquote></div> </div>

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