[frers-list]adjusting to a cruiser ...
David Nauber
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Tue, 26 Aug 2014 06:04:38 -0700
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Hi Mike,=0A=0AThe traveler is where it is because the boat was available wi=
th either a tiller or a wheel. When fitted with a tiller, there isn't enoug=
h room in the cockpit to put the traveler behind the jib trimmers. It is a =
big tiller, so it takes up all the room there is behind the jib trimmers. T=
here just isn't room for a main trimmer to fit there. I used to have a smal=
ler boat (Wavelength 24) with the traveler just forward of the helm and it =
was designed so the helmsman trimmed main while racing, like an Etchells or=
many other small boats. In a racing situation, you would not want to trim =
main and drive on the Frers anyway. Unless you're single-handing, I don't s=
ee a problem with its location and even then, you can at least rig the trav=
eler to be accessible from the helm as Scott Marino has done on Risoluto.=
=A0=0A=0AI'm not sure how you're boat is rigged but on Wolverine and all th=
e other Frers I've seen the car adjuster is indeed forward of the jib trimm=
er. Ours runs to a cam cleat on the side of the cabin top below where the p=
ole downhaul/foreguy is cleated. From there you can look at the sail while =
adjusting the car, just as you would expect.=0A=0AI know what you're saying=
about motoring a lot. When on vacation, we usually leave early in the AM b=
efore there's enough breeze to justify hoisting sails, so we motor almost e=
verywhere.=A0=0A=0ARegards,=0A=0ADave=0A=0A=0AOn Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8=
:44 AM, "Hoyt, Mike" <Mike.Hoyt@impgroup.com> wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AHave now h=
ad Persistence for 2 months.=A0 Still feel like we have not sailed it.=0A=
=A0=0AWe are coming from a series of smaller tiller driven boats with fract=
ional main driven rigs culminating with a J27.=0A=A0=0APerhaps it is that I=
am very distracted by the Winnebago aspects of the boat.=A0 Loving having =
an interior and a separate head and especially loving the 3GM30 diesel.=A0 =
However even after a 400 NM delivery and numerous day trips I am finding we=
have not sailed the boat and I find some things about the way it is rigged=
quite confusing and awkard.=0A=A0=0AOn the J27 and even on C&C99 and C&C 1=
15 the traveler is at aft of cockpit just forward of wheel (on wheel boats)=
and easily accessed by driver on the tiller boats.=A0 Backstay, traveler, =
sheet all at this location.=A0 On the Frers the traveler is forward of the =
jib trimmer position which just seems odd.=A0 I am confused why anyone woul=
d put it there.=A0 My best guess is that when sailing with a crew the main =
trimmer is on high side and the jib trimmer sets the jib on low side and th=
en gets up on the rail,=A0 Is this correct?=0A=A0=0AThe jib controls are a =
bit different as well.=A0 On the J27 the genoa car adjusters are forward of=
the primaries so that the trimmer can look at the genoa while adjusting th=
e cars.=A0 The controls are positioned exactly where the pole down cam clea=
ts are on the Frers.=A0 I am tempted to set up using these cam cleats same =
as J27 as it works better and route the pole downhaul to a cabintop clutch =
beside the pole uphaul.=0A=A0=0AI am thinking the adjustments we are having=
are a bit awkward because we are spending some time cruising and/or have g=
uests aboard too frequently to allow us to really sail the boat.=A0 On top =
of that I am very infatuated with a large diesel and wheel so tempted to mo=
tor more often than in past.=A0 Hopefully with the cooler Fall weather the =
tourists are less interested and the sailors will come out and we will actu=
ally sail and race the boat=0A=A0=0ASorry for the rambling email.=A0 Almost=
feel like I need to sit forward of the wheel to drive so that can access t=
he sail controls.=A0 =0A=A0=0ALater=0A=A0=0AMike=0A=A0=0APersistence
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He=
lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:10pt"><div><span>Hi Mike,</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0=
, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvet=
ica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; fon=
t-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);=
font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, =
Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-sty=
le: normal;"><span>The traveler is where it is because the boat was availab=
le with either a tiller or a wheel. When fitted with a tiller, there isn't =
enough room in the cockpit to put the traveler behind the jib trimmers. It =
is a big tiller, so it takes up all the room there is behind the jib trimme=
rs. There just isn't room for a main trimmer to fit there. I used to have
a smaller boat (Wavelength 24) with the traveler just forward of the helm =
and it was designed so the helmsman trimmed main while racing, like an Etch=
ells or many other small boats. In a racing situation, you would not want t=
o trim main and drive on the Frers anyway. Unless you're single-handing, I =
don't see a problem with its location and even then, you can at least rig t=
he traveler to be accessible from the helm as Scott Marino has done on Riso=
luto. </span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px;=
font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Gr=
ande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><spa=
n><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font=
-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande'=
, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>I'm=
not sure how you're boat is rigged but on Wolverine and all the other
Frers I've seen the car adjuster is indeed forward of the jib trimmer. Our=
s runs to a cam cleat on the side of the cabin top below where the pole dow=
nhaul/foreguy is cleated. From there you can look at the sail while adjusti=
ng the car, just as you would expect.</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(=
0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', He=
lvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent;=
font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0,=
0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helveti=
ca, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font=
-style: normal;"><span>I know what you're saying about motoring a lot. When=
on vacation, we usually leave early in the AM before there's enough breeze=
to justify hoisting sails, so we motor almost everywhere. </span></di=
v><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family:
HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-s=
erif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span>=
</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: Helv=
eticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;=
background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Regards,</span><=
/div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: Helve=
ticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; =
background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div>=
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaN=
eue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; backg=
round-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Dave</span></div> <div=
class=3D"qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class=3D"yahoo_quoted" style=3D=
"display: block;"> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neu=
e',
Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> <div sty=
le=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Luci=
da Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"=
2" face=3D"Arial"> On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8:44 AM, "Hoyt, Mike" <Mi=
ke.Hoyt@impgroup.com> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <br><br> <div class=3D"=
y_msg_container"><div id=3D"yiv5139334000"><style><!--=0A#yiv5139334000 =
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5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}=0A _filtered #yiv5139334000 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1=
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000 p=0A=09{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"=
Times New Roman", "serif";}=0A#yiv5139334000 p.yiv5139334000MsoAcetate, #yi=
v5139334000 li.yiv5139334000MsoAcetate, #yiv5139334000 div.yiv5139334000Mso=
Acetate=0A=09{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;font-family:=
"Tahoma", "sans-serif";}=0A#yiv5139334000 span.yiv5139334000BalloonTextChar=
=0A=09{font-family:"Tahoma", "sans-serif";}=0A#yiv5139334000 span.yiv513933=
4000EmailStyle20=0A=09{font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;}=
=0A#yiv5139334000 span.yiv5139334000EmailStyle21=0A=09{font-family:"Calibri=
", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;}=0A#yiv5139334000 span.yiv5139334000EmailSty=
le22=0A=09{font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;}=0A#yiv513933=
4000 .yiv5139334000MsoChpDefault=0A=09{font-size:10.0pt;}=0A _filtered #yiv=
5139334000 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}=0A#yiv5139334000 div.yiv513933=
4000WordSection1=0A=09{}=0A--></style><div><div class=3D"yiv5139334000WordS=
ection1"><div class=3D"yiv5139334000MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11=
pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Have now ha=
d Persistence for 2 months. Still feel like we have not sailed it.</s=
pan></div><div class=3D"yiv5139334000MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 1=
1pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </s=
pan></div><div class=3D"yiv5139334000MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 1=
1pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">We are com=
ing from a series of smaller tiller driven boats with fractional main drive=
n rigs culminating with a J27.</span></div><div class=3D"yiv5139334000MsoNo=
rmal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div class=3D"yiv5139334000MsoNo=
rmal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Perhaps it is that
I am very distracted by the Winnebago aspects of the boat. Loving ha=
ving an interior and a separate head and especially loving the 3GM30 diesel=
. However even after a 400 NM delivery and numerous day trips I am fi=
nding we have not sailed the boat and I find some things about the way it i=
s rigged quite confusing and awkard.</span></div><div class=3D"yiv513933400=
0MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-seri=
f; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div class=3D"yiv513933400=
0MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-seri=
f; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">On the J27 and even on C&C99 and C&C 1=
15 the traveler is at aft of cockpit just forward of wheel (on wheel boats)=
and easily accessed by driver on the tiller boats. Backstay, travele=
r, sheet all at this location. On the Frers the traveler is forward o=
f the jib trimmer position which just seems odd. I am confused why
anyone would put it there. My best guess is that when sailing with a=
crew the main trimmer is on high side and the jib trimmer sets the jib on =
low side and then gets up on the rail, Is this correct?</span></div><=
div class=3D"yiv5139334000MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-f=
amily: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><=
div class=3D"yiv5139334000MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-f=
amily: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The jib controls are =
a bit different as well. On the J27 the genoa car adjusters are forwa=
rd of the primaries so that the trimmer can look at the genoa while adjusti=
ng the cars. The controls are positioned exactly where the pole down =
cam cleats are on the Frers. I am tempted to set up using these cam c=
leats same as J27 as it works better and route the pole downhaul to a cabin=
top clutch beside the pole uphaul.</span></div><div
class=3D"yiv5139334000MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div=
class=3D"yiv5139334000MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I am thinking the adjust=
ments we are having are a bit awkward because we are spending some time cru=
ising and/or have guests aboard too frequently to allow us to really sail t=
he boat. On top of that I am very infatuated with a large diesel and =
wheel so tempted to motor more often than in past. Hopefully with the=
cooler Fall weather the tourists are less interested and the sailors will =
come out and we will actually sail and race the boat</span></div><div class=
=3D"yiv5139334000MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Ca=
libri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div class=
=3D"yiv5139334000MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Ca=
libri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Sorry for the rambling email. =
Almost feel like I need to sit forward of the wheel to drive so that can ac=
cess the sail controls. </span></div><div class=3D"yiv5139334000MsoNo=
rmal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div class=3D"yiv5139334000MsoNo=
rmal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Later</span></div><div class=3D"yiv5139334000MsoNorm=
al"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color=
: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div class=3D"yiv5139334000MsoNorm=
al"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color=
: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Mike</span></div><div class=3D"yiv5139334000MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: r=
gb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div class=3D"yiv5139334000MsoNormal"=
><span
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,=
73, 125);">Persistence</span></div></div></div></div><br><br></div> </div=
> </div> </div> </div></body></html>
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