[frers-list]adjusting to a cruiser ...
David Nauber
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Tue, 26 Aug 2014 06:06:58 -0700
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One more thing...=0A=0AUpwind, I always drive from forward of the wheel. If=
necessary when heeled, I put a foot on the pedestal to keep myself in posi=
tion. I drive better downwind if I'm standing somewhere behind the wheel. I=
just see and feel everything better from there.=0A=0ADN=0A=0A=0AOn , David=
Nauber <dnauber@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AHi Mike,=0A=0AThe traveler i=
s where it is because the boat was available with either a tiller or a whee=
l. When fitted with a tiller, there isn't enough room in the cockpit to put=
the traveler behind the jib trimmers. It is a big tiller, so it takes up a=
ll the room there is behind the jib trimmers. There just isn't room for a m=
ain trimmer to fit there. I used to have a smaller boat (Wavelength 24) wit=
h the traveler just forward of the helm and it was designed so the helmsman=
trimmed main while racing, like an Etchells or many other small boats. In =
a racing situation, you would not want to trim main and drive on the Frers =
anyway. Unless you're single-handing, I don't see a problem with its locati=
on and even then, you can at least rig the traveler to be accessible from t=
he helm as Scott Marino has done on Risoluto.=A0=0A=0AI'm not sure how you'=
re boat is rigged but on Wolverine and all the other Frers I've seen the ca=
r adjuster is indeed forward of the jib trimmer. Ours runs to a cam cleat o=
n the side of the cabin top below where the pole downhaul/foreguy is cleate=
d. From there you can look at the sail while adjusting the car, just as you=
would expect.=0A=0AI know what you're saying about motoring a lot. When on=
vacation, we usually leave early in the AM before there's enough breeze to=
justify hoisting sails, so we motor almost everywhere.=A0=0A=0ARegards,=0A=
=0ADave=0A=0A=0AOn Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8:44 AM, "Hoyt, Mike" <Mike.Hoy=
t@impgroup.com> wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AHave now had Persistence for 2 months.=
=A0 Still feel like we have not sailed it.=0A=A0=0AWe are coming from a ser=
ies of smaller tiller driven boats with fractional main driven rigs culmina=
ting with a J27.=0A=A0=0APerhaps it is that I am very distracted by the Win=
nebago aspects of the boat.=A0 Loving having an interior and a separate hea=
d and especially loving the 3GM30 diesel.=A0 However even after a 400 NM de=
livery and numerous day trips I am finding we have not sailed the boat and =
I find some things about the way it is rigged quite confusing and awkard.=
=0A=A0=0AOn the J27 and even on C&C99 and C&C 115 the traveler is at aft of=
cockpit just forward of wheel (on wheel boats) and easily accessed by driv=
er on the tiller boats.=A0 Backstay, traveler, sheet all at this location.=
=A0 On the Frers the traveler is forward of the jib trimmer position which =
just seems odd.=A0 I am confused why anyone would put it there.=A0 My best =
guess is that when sailing with a crew the main trimmer is on high side and=
the jib trimmer sets the jib on low side and then gets up on the rail,=A0 =
Is this correct?=0A=A0=0AThe jib controls are a bit different as well.=A0 O=
n the J27 the genoa car adjusters are forward of the primaries so that the =
trimmer can look at the genoa while adjusting the cars.=A0 The controls are=
positioned exactly where the pole down cam cleats are on the Frers.=A0 I a=
m tempted to set up using these cam cleats same as J27 as it works better a=
nd route the pole downhaul to a cabintop clutch beside the pole uphaul.=0A=
=A0=0AI am thinking the adjustments we are having are a bit awkward because=
we are spending some time cruising and/or have guests aboard too frequentl=
y to allow us to really sail the boat.=A0 On top of that I am very infatuat=
ed with a large diesel and wheel so tempted to motor more often than in pas=
t.=A0 Hopefully with the cooler Fall weather the tourists are less interest=
ed and the sailors will come out and we will actually sail and race the boa=
t=0A=A0=0ASorry for the rambling email.=A0 Almost feel like I need to sit f=
orward of the wheel to drive so that can access the sail controls.=A0 =0A=
=A0=0ALater=0A=A0=0AMike=0A=A0=0APersistence
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He=
lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:10pt"><div><span>One more thing...</span></div><div style=3D"color:=
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue=
', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transpa=
rent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(=
0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', He=
lvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent;=
font-style: normal;">Upwind, I always drive from forward of the wheel. If =
necessary when heeled, I put a foot on the pedestal to keep myself in posit=
ion. I drive better downwind if I'm standing somewhere behind the wheel. I =
just see and feel everything better from there.</div><div style=3D"color: r=
gb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue',
Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transpare=
nt; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-=
size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,=
'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: no=
rmal;">DN</div> <div class=3D"qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class=3D"ya=
hoo_quoted" style=3D"display: block;"> <div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica=
Neue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font=
-size: 10pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', =
Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=
=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> On , David Nauber <dnauber@ya=
hoo.com> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <br><br> <div class=3D"y_msg_contain=
er"><div id=3D"yiv2843767694"><div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); backg=
round-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neu=
e', Helvetica,
Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div><span>Hi Mike,<=
/span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family=
: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-=
serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br clear=
=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; =
font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Gra=
nde', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span=
>The traveler is where it is because the boat was available with either a t=
iller or a wheel. When fitted with a tiller, there isn't enough room in the=
cockpit to put the traveler behind the jib trimmers. It is a big tiller, s=
o it takes up all the room there is behind the jib trimmers. There just isn=
't room for a main trimmer to fit there. I used to have=0A a smaller boat (=
Wavelength 24) with the traveler just forward of the helm and it was design=
ed so the helmsman trimmed main while racing, like an Etchells or many othe=
r small boats. In a racing situation, you would not want to trim main and d=
rive on the Frers anyway. Unless you're single-handing, I don't see a probl=
em with its location and even then, you can at least rig the traveler to be=
accessible from the helm as Scott Marino has done on Risoluto. </span=
></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: Hel=
veticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif=
; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br clear=3D"no=
ne"></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-f=
amily: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', =
sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>I'm n=
ot sure how you're boat is rigged but on Wolverine and
all the other=0A Frers I've seen the car adjuster is indeed forward of the=
jib trimmer. Ours runs to a cam cleat on the side of the cabin top below w=
here the pole downhaul/foreguy is cleated. From there you can look at the s=
ail while adjusting the car, just as you would expect.</span></div><div sty=
le=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'He=
lvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-co=
lor: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></di=
v><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: Helvetic=
aNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; bac=
kground-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>I know what you're s=
aying about motoring a lot. When on vacation, we usually leave early in the=
AM before there's enough breeze to justify hoisting sails, so we motor alm=
ost everywhere. </span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-s=
ize: 13px;
font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Gr=
ande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><spa=
n><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-s=
ize: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, =
'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: nor=
mal;"><span>Regards,</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-si=
ze: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, '=
Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: norm=
al;"><span><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0=
); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica=
, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-s=
tyle: normal;"><span>Dave</span></div> <div class=3D"yiv2843767694qtdSepara=
teBR"><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div><div
class=3D"yiv2843767694yqt9113194498" id=3D"yiv2843767694yqt45925"><div cla=
ss=3D"yiv2843767694yahoo_quoted" style=3D"display: block;"> <div style=3D"f=
ont-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Gran=
de', sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeu=
e, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-si=
ze: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> On Tuesday, =
August 26, 2014 8:44 AM, "Hoyt, Mike" <Mike.Hoyt@impgroup.com> wrote:=
<br clear=3D"none"> </font> </div> <br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"> =
<div class=3D"yiv2843767694y_msg_container"><div id=3D"yiv2843767694"><styl=
e>#yiv2843767694 #yiv2843767694 --=0A =0A filtered {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 =
6 3 2 4;}=0A#yiv2843767694 filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2=
2 2 4 3 2 4;}=0A#yiv2843767694 filtered {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11=
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li.yiv2843767694MsoAcetate, #yiv2843767694 div.yiv2843767694MsoAcetate=0A=
=09{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}=0A#yiv2843767694 sp=
an.yiv2843767694BalloonTextChar=0A=09{}=0A#yiv2843767694 span.yiv284376769=
4EmailStyle20=0A=09{color:#1F497D;}=0A#yiv2843767694 span.yiv2843767694Ema=
ilStyle21=0A=09{color:#1F497D;}=0A#yiv2843767694 span.yiv2843767694EmailSt=
yle22=0A=09{color:#1F497D;}=0A#yiv2843767694 .yiv2843767694MsoChpDefault=
=0A=09{font-size:10.0pt;}=0A#yiv2843767694 filtered {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.=
0in 1.0in;}=0A#yiv2843767694 div.yiv2843767694WordSection1=0A=09{}=0A#yiv2=
843767694 </style><div><div class=3D"yiv2843767694WordSection1"><div class=
=3D"yiv2843767694MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Ca=
libri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Have now had Persistence for 2=
months. Still feel like we have not sailed it.</span></div><div clas=
s=3D"yiv2843767694MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div clas=
s=3D"yiv2843767694MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: C=
alibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">We are coming from a series o=
f smaller tiller driven boats with fractional main driven rigs culminating =
with a J27.</span></div><div class=3D"yiv2843767694MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);"> </span></div><div class=3D"yiv2843767694MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 1=
25);">Perhaps
it is that=0A I am very distracted by the Winnebago aspects of the boat.&n=
bsp; Loving having an interior and a separate head and especially loving th=
e 3GM30 diesel. However even after a 400 NM delivery and numerous day=
trips I am finding we have not sailed the boat and I find some things abou=
t the way it is rigged quite confusing and awkard.</span></div><div class=
=3D"yiv2843767694MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Ca=
libri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div class=
=3D"yiv2843767694MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Ca=
libri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">On the J27 and even on C&C=
99 and C&C 115 the traveler is at aft of cockpit just forward of wheel =
(on wheel boats) and easily accessed by driver on the tiller boats. B=
ackstay, traveler, sheet all at this location. On the Frers the trave=
ler is forward of the jib trimmer position which just seems odd. I am=
confused why=0A anyone would put it there. My best guess is that whe=
n sailing with a crew the main trimmer is on high side and the jib trimmer =
sets the jib on low side and then gets up on the rail, Is this correc=
t?</span></div><div class=3D"yiv2843767694MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> &nbs=
p;</span></div><div class=3D"yiv2843767694MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The j=
ib controls are a bit different as well. On the J27 the genoa car adj=
usters are forward of the primaries so that the trimmer can look at the gen=
oa while adjusting the cars. The controls are positioned exactly wher=
e the pole down cam cleats are on the Frers. I am tempted to set up u=
sing these cam cleats same as J27 as it works better and route the pole dow=
nhaul to a cabintop clutch beside the pole uphaul.</span></div><div
class=3D"yiv2843767694MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div=
class=3D"yiv2843767694MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I am thinking the adjust=
ments we are having are a bit awkward because we are spending some time cru=
ising and/or have guests aboard too frequently to allow us to really sail t=
he boat. On top of that I am very infatuated with a large diesel and =
wheel so tempted to motor more often than in past. Hopefully with the=
cooler Fall weather the tourists are less interested and the sailors will =
come out and we will actually sail and race the boat</span></div><div class=
=3D"yiv2843767694MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Ca=
libri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div class=
=3D"yiv2843767694MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Ca=
libri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Sorry for the rambling email. =
Almost feel like I need to sit forward of the wheel to drive so that can ac=
cess the sail controls. </span></div><div class=3D"yiv2843767694MsoNo=
rmal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div class=3D"yiv2843767694MsoNo=
rmal"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; col=
or: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Later</span></div><div class=3D"yiv2843767694MsoNorm=
al"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color=
: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div class=3D"yiv2843767694MsoNorm=
al"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color=
: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Mike</span></div><div class=3D"yiv2843767694MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: r=
gb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div class=3D"yiv2843767694MsoNormal"=
><span
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,=
73, 125);">Persistence</span></div></div></div></div><br clear=3D"none"><b=
r clear=3D"none"></div> </div> </div> </div></div> </div></div></div><br>=
<br></div> </div> </div> </div> </div></body></html>
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