[frers-list]adjusting to a cruiser ...
Hoyt, Mike
frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Tue, 26 Aug 2014 10:32:48 -0300
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Thanks Dave
=20
Interesting about the car adjuster position. On Persistence the
primaries were moved to cabin top and #43 electric winches installed aft
end of winch pad for single handing/cruising. We have since purchased
Lewmar 30ST for cabin top and are moving the #43 from cabin top back to
forward end of winch pad. The car adjusters are back at end of winch
pad by the electric winches. Note that C&C99 has them there as well and
I find it a dumb place for them while racing ... and awkward
=20
My normal position when racing is on main - mostly on a C&C 115 and also
on our J27. When short on crew on J27 or just sailing would often do
helm and main. Will seem different to move further forward but is a
small cockpit so expect will not really be an issue - except when
bumping into jib trimmers ocassionally.
=20
Is a very different boat than the 27. Seems to be a lot more jib
driven with much larger loads on jib sheets etc ... Looking fwd to
actually racing it a bit. Love the fact that we can also stay aboard
when not racing
=20
Mike
=20
From: frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] On Behalf Of David Nauber
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 10:07 AM
To: frers-list@lists.frers33.com
Subject: Re: [frers-list]adjusting to a cruiser ...
=20
One more thing...
=20
Upwind, I always drive from forward of the wheel. If necessary when
heeled, I put a foot on the pedestal to keep myself in position. I drive
better downwind if I'm standing somewhere behind the wheel. I just see
and feel everything better from there.
=20
DN
=20
On , David Nauber <dnauber@yahoo.com> wrote:
=20
Hi Mike,
=20
The traveler is where it is because the boat was available with either a
tiller or a wheel. When fitted with a tiller, there isn't enough room in
the cockpit to put the traveler behind the jib trimmers. It is a big
tiller, so it takes up all the room there is behind the jib trimmers.
There just isn't room for a main trimmer to fit there. I used to have a
smaller boat (Wavelength 24) with the traveler just forward of the helm
and it was designed so the helmsman trimmed main while racing, like an
Etchells or many other small boats. In a racing situation, you would not
want to trim main and drive on the Frers anyway. Unless you're
single-handing, I don't see a problem with its location and even then,
you can at least rig the traveler to be accessible from the helm as
Scott Marino has done on Risoluto.=20
=20
I'm not sure how you're boat is rigged but on Wolverine and all the
other Frers I've seen the car adjuster is indeed forward of the jib
trimmer. Ours runs to a cam cleat on the side of the cabin top below
where the pole downhaul/foreguy is cleated. From there you can look at
the sail while adjusting the car, just as you would expect.
=20
I know what you're saying about motoring a lot. When on vacation, we
usually leave early in the AM before there's enough breeze to justify
hoisting sails, so we motor almost everywhere.=20
=20
Regards,
=20
Dave
=20
On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8:44 AM, "Hoyt, Mike"
<Mike.Hoyt@impgroup.com> wrote:
=20
Have now had Persistence for 2 months. Still feel like we have not
sailed it.
=20
We are coming from a series of smaller tiller driven boats with
fractional main driven rigs culminating with a J27.
=20
Perhaps it is that I am very distracted by the Winnebago aspects of the
boat. Loving having an interior and a separate head and especially
loving the 3GM30 diesel. However even after a 400 NM delivery and
numerous day trips I am finding we have not sailed the boat and I find
some things about the way it is rigged quite confusing and awkard.
=20
On the J27 and even on C&C99 and C&C 115 the traveler is at aft of
cockpit just forward of wheel (on wheel boats) and easily accessed by
driver on the tiller boats. Backstay, traveler, sheet all at this
location. On the Frers the traveler is forward of the jib trimmer
position which just seems odd. I am confused why anyone would put it
there. My best guess is that when sailing with a crew the main trimmer
is on high side and the jib trimmer sets the jib on low side and then
gets up on the rail, Is this correct?
=20
The jib controls are a bit different as well. On the J27 the genoa car
adjusters are forward of the primaries so that the trimmer can look at
the genoa while adjusting the cars. The controls are positioned exactly
where the pole down cam cleats are on the Frers. I am tempted to set up
using these cam cleats same as J27 as it works better and route the pole
downhaul to a cabintop clutch beside the pole uphaul.
=20
I am thinking the adjustments we are having are a bit awkward because we
are spending some time cruising and/or have guests aboard too frequently
to allow us to really sail the boat. On top of that I am very
infatuated with a large diesel and wheel so tempted to motor more often
than in past. Hopefully with the cooler Fall weather the tourists are
less interested and the sailors will come out and we will actually sail
and race the boat
=20
Sorry for the rambling email. Almost feel like I need to sit forward of
the wheel to drive so that can access the sail controls. =20
=20
Later
=20
Mike
=20
Persistence
=20
=20
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thanks Dave<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Interesting about the car adjuster position. On Persistence the =
primaries were moved to cabin top and #43 electric winches installed aft =
end of winch pad for single handing/cruising. We have since =
purchased Lewmar 30ST for cabin top and are moving the #43 from cabin =
top back to forward end of winch pad. The car adjusters are back =
at end of winch pad by the electric winches. Note that C&C99 =
has them there as well and I find it a dumb place for them while racing =
… and awkward<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>My normal position when racing is on main – mostly on a C&C =
115 and also on our J27. When short on crew on J27 or just sailing =
would often do helm and main. Will seem different to move further =
forward but is a small cockpit so expect will not really be an issue =
– except when bumping into jib trimmers =
ocassionally.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Is a very different boat than the 27. Seems to be a lot =
more jib driven with much larger loads on jib sheets etc … =
Looking fwd to actually racing it a bit. Love the fact =
that we can also stay aboard when not racing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com =
[mailto:frers-list-admin@lists.frers33.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>David =
Nauber<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 26, 2014 10:07 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
frers-list@lists.frers33.com<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[frers-list]adjusting to a cruiser =
...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>One more thing...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Upwind, I always drive from forward of the wheel. If necessary when =
heeled, I put a foot on the pedestal to keep myself in position. I drive =
better downwind if I'm standing somewhere behind the wheel. I just see =
and feel everything better from =
there.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>DN<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>O=
n , David Nauber <<a =
href=3D"mailto:dnauber@yahoo.com">dnauber@yahoo.com</a>> =
wrote:</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o=
:p></span></p><div><div id=3Dyiv2843767694><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Hi Mike,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>The traveler is where it is because the boat was available with =
either a tiller or a wheel. When fitted with a tiller, there isn't =
enough room in the cockpit to put the traveler behind the jib trimmers. =
It is a big tiller, so it takes up all the room there is behind the jib =
trimmers. There just isn't room for a main trimmer to fit there. I used =
to have a smaller boat (Wavelength 24) with the traveler just forward of =
the helm and it was designed so the helmsman trimmed main while racing, =
like an Etchells or many other small boats. In a racing situation, you =
would not want to trim main and drive on the Frers anyway. Unless you're =
single-handing, I don't see a problem with its location and even then, =
you can at least rig the traveler to be accessible from the helm as =
Scott Marino has done on =
Risoluto. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>I'm not sure how you're boat is rigged but on Wolverine and all the =
other Frers I've seen the car adjuster is indeed forward of the jib =
trimmer. Ours runs to a cam cleat on the side of the cabin top below =
where the pole downhaul/foreguy is cleated. From there you can look at =
the sail while adjusting the car, just as you would =
expect.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>I know what you're saying about motoring a lot. When on vacation, we =
usually leave early in the AM before there's enough breeze to justify =
hoisting sails, so we motor almost =
everywhere. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'>Dave<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blac=
k'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3Dyiv2843767694yqt45925><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>O=
n Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8:44 AM, "Hoyt, Mike" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:Mike.Hoyt@impgroup.com">Mike.Hoyt@impgroup.com</a>> =
wrote:</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o=
:p></span></p><div><div id=3Dyiv2843767694><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Have now had Persistence for 2 months. Still feel like we have =
not sailed it.</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>We are coming from a series of smaller tiller driven boats with =
fractional main driven rigs culminating with a J27.</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Perhaps it is that I am very distracted by the Winnebago aspects of =
the boat. Loving having an interior and a separate head and =
especially loving the 3GM30 diesel. However even after a 400 NM =
delivery and numerous day trips I am finding we have not sailed the boat =
and I find some things about the way it is rigged quite confusing and =
awkard.</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>On the J27 and even on C&C99 and C&C 115 the traveler is at =
aft of cockpit just forward of wheel (on wheel boats) and easily =
accessed by driver on the tiller boats. Backstay, traveler, sheet =
all at this location. On the Frers the traveler is forward of the =
jib trimmer position which just seems odd. I am confused why =
anyone would put it there. My best guess is that when sailing with =
a crew the main trimmer is on high side and the jib trimmer sets the jib =
on low side and then gets up on the rail, Is this =
correct?</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The jib controls are a bit different as well. On the J27 the =
genoa car adjusters are forward of the primaries so that the trimmer can =
look at the genoa while adjusting the cars. The controls are =
positioned exactly where the pole down cam cleats are on the =
Frers. I am tempted to set up using these cam cleats same as J27 =
as it works better and route the pole downhaul to a cabintop clutch =
beside the pole uphaul.</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I am thinking the adjustments we are having are a bit awkward because =
we are spending some time cruising and/or have guests aboard too =
frequently to allow us to really sail the boat. On top of that I =
am very infatuated with a large diesel and wheel so tempted to motor =
more often than in past. Hopefully with the cooler Fall weather =
the tourists are less interested and the sailors will come out and we =
will actually sail and race the boat</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Sorry for the rambling email. Almost feel like I need to sit =
forward of the wheel to drive so that can access the sail =
controls. </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Later</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Mike</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Persistence</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o=
:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>
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